The universe according to MMM

[Max Rockatansky]

Is the gap on I-90 as bad as the one on I-105?

[Bruce]

I-90 did have a gap, a few decades ago:

[kkt]

I-90 did have a gap, a few decades ago:

I remember that.  Contractor was using water blasting to remove sidewalks and other structures built on the bridge, preparatory to realigning the road geometry.  They decided the pontoons would be a great place to store the resulting water.  It was contaminated and should not be dumped in the lake, so they would pump out the pontoons to dispose of the contaminated water.  The covers on the tops of the pontoons were open.  During storms, waves wash over some of the bridge deck, and into the pontoons if the covers have been left open.  The more water goes into the pontoons, the lower they ride in the water, and the more waves crash over the bridge deck...

Fortunately the section of the bridge that sank was closed for construction at the time so no one was killed or injured or private property lost.

I-90 gap is worse. In that speed movie you could simply jump the gap in your own vehicle, you didn't need planes to cross it. I-90 you either need jet powered ferries or cargo planes.

Um, no, neither of those was done.  The new section of bridge was already built parallel to the old bridge that sank, so they realligned the roadway on the new section for 2-way traffic and that served until the old bridge was replaced.  There weren't as many lanes as would have been nice, but it was useable.

[Max Rockatansky]

Is the gap on I-90 as bad as the one on I-105?

I-90 gap is worse. In that speed movie you could simply jump the gap in your own vehicle, you didn't need planes to cross it. I-90 you either need jet powered ferries or cargo planes.

Which brings me back to:

Someone point out the gaps por favor:

https://flic.kr/p/XvqEJG

I'm not seeing that gap, please point it out for me.

[kkt]

That I-90 sign shouldn't be there, it's incorrectly placed as I-90 can't run along I-80 for that long. Therefore, consider the I-80 sign to be the only correct sign there.

Please point out the interstate standard that limits the length of duplexed segments.

[Max Rockatansky]

That I-90 sign shouldn't be there, it's incorrectly placed as I-90 can't run along I-80 for that long. Therefore, consider the I-80 sign to be the only correct sign there.

So basically, "there is no gap."

[Max Rockatansky]

Ah, but they are because there is no gap.  The gap you speak simply does not exist. 

[Max Rockatansky]

Sorry, for a gap to exist there must be a lack of signage.  Clearly there is plenty of I-90 signs multiplexed with I-80 on the Indiana Toll Road and Ohio Turnpike.  I have a lot more photos of both the Ohio Turnpike and Indiana Toll Road if you aren't inclined to take my word for it.  Or is this some sort of attempt at revisionist history where you are trying to make I-90 akin to US 85 in New Mexico?

[kalvado]

Ah, but they are because there is no gap.  The gap you speak simply does not exist.

Gap or not... who cares? People should be thinking about getting from point A to point B, not about those fancy signs.

[Max Rockatansky]

Ah, but they are because there is no gap.  The gap you speak simply does not exist.

Gap or not... who cares? People should be thinking about getting from point A to point B, not about those fancy signs.

Yes, but this is not how the road community tends to roll.  Signage semantics and "grids"  seem to be inordinately important around these parts.  I couldn't think of two more boring highways segments to obsess over than the Indiana Toll Road and Ohio Turnpike.

[bm7]

The standard is:

"Bootleg highways that go well out of the way of their normal latitude/longitude to run along normal highways via insanely long concurrencies, fail to meet the principles of interstate highway engineering standards and must not be signed"

How does that apply to I-90? It meets interstate highway standards, and is signed.

[dlsterner]

The same way they don't have signs up for interstates that do exist, such as the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel (I-478) they may have some signs up for interstates that no longer exist or aren't signed, such as the "ghost" I-895 signs for the Sheridan expressway before it was downgraded. The same may apply to I-90, the signs simply weren't taken down yet because the bootleg classification of it was only recently realized by the road community. I should start a poll on this issue as well.

Please do.

[GaryV]

The same way they don't have signs up for interstates that do exist, such as the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel (I-478) they may have some signs up for interstates that no longer exist or aren't signed, such as the "ghost" I-895 signs for the Sheridan expressway before it was downgraded. The same may apply to I-90, the signs simply weren't taken down yet because the bootleg classification of it was only recently realized by the road community. I should start a poll on this issue as well.

Of which "community" do you speak? The MMM community of one?

The only community that has authority to make such a decision is AASHTO. If you can supply some official document stating I-90 no longer exists between Gary and Cleveland, then we might start to believe you. Except for grappling hook helicopters and nuclear airplanes.

Edit: Is "bootleg highway" defined somewhere in MUTCD?

[Max Rockatansky]

Is there some dude out there selling bootleg highways out the back of his panel van?

[kphoger]

I-90 can't run along I-80 for that long.

Please point out the interstate standard that limits the length of duplexed segments.

The standard is:

"Bootleg highways that go well out of the way of their normal latitude/longitude to run along normal highways via insanely long concurrencies, fail to meet the principles of interstate highway engineering standards and must not be signed"

Please cite your reference.

[Max Rockatansky]

Here's an example of an actual bootleg highway:

https://flic.kr/p/T6Puxq

In this particular case CA 130 ends at Mount Hamilton.  For whatever reason Santa Clara County signs CA 130 (mind you with weird imitation shields) all the way to the Stanislaus County line via San Antonio Valley Road and Del Puerto Canyon Road.  CA 130 has never existed east of Mount Hamilton, thus Santa Clara County is peddling a bootleg highway.

[Max Rockatansky]

You say I-90 is imaginary.  Maybe we think you're imaginary? 

[kkt]

The standard is:

"Bootleg highways that go well out of the way of their normal latitude/longitude to run along normal highways via insanely long concurrencies, fail to meet the principles of interstate highway engineering standards and must not be signed"

So, in other words, there is no such standard, just your personal preference based on doing whatever is necessary to diss I-90.

[kkt]

What do you think of my new solution? Simply design concurrent roads like the New Jersey Turnpike, with spurs for each interstate. Or build the highways with an upper and lower level to separate out the interstates into individual and independent highways. Then I-90 could run through Indiana and Ohio right above interstate 80, and not be bootleg, and it would be a continuous interstate highway.

Then if there's an accident on one of the roadways it backs up until it gets to an exit where traffic can cross over to the other roadway.  I'd just as soon have one wide roadway.

[hotdogPi]

I-90 (=-90+i) definitely has an imaginary component.

[kkt]

Are you as passionate about all duplexed routes, or just the ones that could be twisted into making I-90 not the longest interstate anymore?

[roadman65]

Let's see.

This guy hates curved roads.
He hates I-90.
He hates the number 99.

He loves Helicopters with graphing hooks.
He loves tunnels under mountains and Canada.
He loves I-80.

In his personal life he loves his couch.
He don't like to vote, but I'm sure takes all the freebies those he don't vote for give out. He don't like to procreate but loves to be celibate.

Definitely material a scientific mind need to analyze.

[Roadgeekteen]

Fuck I-80 that fake ass short interstate not as short as big bad good I-90. I-80 should be completely demolished and replaced by the Lincoln Highway 2.0.

[Max Rockatansky]

Fuck I-80 that fake ass short interstate not as short as big bad good I-90. I-80 should be completely demolished and replaced by the Lincoln Highway 2.0.

No need, the Lincoln Highway Association is still active and signs the highway.  Demolishing I-80 is all that really needs to get done.  I think this is needed.

[MultiMillionMiler]

Are you as passionate about all duplexed routes, or just the ones that could be twisted into making I-90 not the longest interstate anymore?

Only when x0s or x5s run along each other, otherwise I don't mind concurrencies, even the triple concurrencies in wisconsin don't bother me. I don't have a prejudice for I-80 or anything, I treat all highways fairly, but accurate grids and highways that are distinct from each other are needed. I don't hate any numbers either, it's just that abominable numbering like I-99 in PA needs to be changed as soon as possible (I would even recommend temporarily shutting the road down for a couple weeks while PennDot quickly rushes to manufacture new signs renumbering it I-280, which would be flown in by helicopter to install them as quickly as possible). And BTW, I would actually prefer that I-90 is the longest interstate, because the highest x0 also being the longest is a nice combination. But no interstate should be the longest as the sole result of bootlegging off of another. In fact, since I-80 is only 121 miles shorter than I-80, and the concurrency is about 275 miles, I-80 is the longest.