The universe according to MMM

[Flint1979]

They could simply agree to the highway being an American road and they could keep the rest of their territory.

The most direct route from Toronto - the largest city - to many places in western Canada is through US territory. Should we cede them highway routes too? After all, we're keeping most of our territory.

Good point.

Actually transit through other country territory is not an infrequent problem. Gambia-Senegal in Africa may be the the most interesting to discuss right now once India-Bangladesh exclaves are resolved.  As far as I remember, Senegal was pretty desperate and offered some solutions making MMM approaches looking very realistic.

Traveling through another country on their roads is one thing.

[kalvado]

They could simply agree to the highway being an American road and they could keep the rest of their territory.

The most direct route from Toronto - the largest city - to many places in western Canada is through US territory. Should we cede them highway routes too? After all, we're keeping most of our territory.

Good point.

Actually transit through other country territory is not an infrequent problem. Gambia-Senegal in Africa may be the the most interesting to discuss right now once India-Bangladesh exclaves are resolved.  As far as I remember, Senegal was pretty desperate and offered some solutions making MMM approaches looking very realistic.

Traveling through another country on their roads is one thing.

Yes, but if that other country becomes too restrictive, things may quickly go bad. US-Canada border is pretty easy, but even then things like gun transit along MMMs "Canada-90" would be a very difficult question. Heck, even gun transit  through in NY on I-90 is a very difficult subject. Escalating things to requiring expensive visas, blocking transit and turning people away can quickly escalate into big problems.

[Roadgeekteen]

Anyone whose driven from Detroit-East coast through Canada tell me how it is?

[kalvado]

Anyone whose driven from Detroit-East coast through Canada tell me how it is?

.
I had some friends from Canada doing that, actually from Winnipeg to Montreal dipping into US twice to make a stop in NY. Got some funny looks for crossing the border 4 times  in 2 days...

[J N Winkler]

Jesus Christ I haven't "Not Heard" about 9/11. I had looked up stuff about crossing into Canada a couple years ago and something I read said they may not even ask for a passport. If it was wrong, fine, but Jeez. And 9/11 ramped up airport security, because it involved PLANES. What does driving your car north of New York have to do with that? There are roads where the double yellow line is on the border of the US and Canada, so what do people do there?

As an American you can enter Canada without a passport, as long as you present some other document that is considered secure (i.e., not a birth certificate) and is accepted as citizenship proof.  The Wikipedia article on the WHTI has details.

People traveling into the interior of either the US or Canada from locations that straddle the international boundary (e.g., Derby Line) must route through a customs post and report there.  Failure to do so can lead to an unbelievable amount of hassle since most countries (including the US) have an exception for warrantless search when entering at the border.  If they don't like the color of your shoes, they can dismantle your car looking for contraband.

Anyone whose driven from Detroit-East coast through Canada tell me how it is?

I've done it several times, though as a tourist in Canada.  I've never been pulled over for search in secondary, though I was referred there once (at the Blue Water Bridge) when the Canadian customs officer was not understanding that I needed to have questions in writing because I couldn't hear him.  The Canadians always ask if you are carrying firearms, alcohol, tobacco, or goods to be consumed or left in Canada.  (The last three are dutiable, though exemptions apply.  Firearms require a permit, applied for in advance of travel, if they are even legal to bring into Canada.  Most pistols that are favored for concealed carry in the US are classified in Canada as "prohibited" due to too-short barrel length, and a 10-round magazine capacity limit also applies.)  Delays are usually longer getting back into the US and there is less of a pattern to the questions CBP asks.

There are some real dumb Americans out there.

My father was in the steam room at the gym several years ago when he heard someone complaining about Canadian firearms laws.  This person had apparently traveled to Canada with a gun, on two separate occasions, and had it confiscated each time because of course he hadn't cleared it in advance.  (People who go to Alaska to hunt typically travel by air just to avoid gun-related hassles in Canada, even though long guns are regulated far less stringently there than pistols.)

[jeffandnicole]

I don't even think you need a passport to drive into Canada/Mexico.

You seriously don't know the answer to this?  Actually, I'm sure you do.  Most of your posts are just to get reactions from others.

You've always needed a passport, it's not just since 2020.

Has MMM heard of a certain event that took place in 2001? Any shortcutting the process of border crossings permanently ended forever on that date.

Actually, both of these quotes are incorrect.  Passports have only been necessary since January, 2007.

I didn't have a passport until about 2006.  I drove to Montreal to see the last Phillies-Expos series in September 2004 and used my birth certificate.  The border agent rolled his eyes, but he took it, reviewed it, asked the standard questions (where you going, how long, etc), and let me go on my way.

No it's not incorrect. You have always needed a passport or birth certificate, it just wasn't mandatory. That's the date it became required to do so.

How is that not incorrect? You quoted yourself saying a passport was required.

And no, nothing changed immediately on 9/11/01. The events that day were the catalyst to make changes, but regarding entry into Canada or the US, it was actually many years before changes occurred. About the only thing that changed immediately was airline security, and that even evolved over time. The TSA wasn't created until a few months later, then airline security procedures continued to change, often as a result of reactions to an event that occurred. Compared to some rules that were immediately or eventually put into place, some prohibitiations have been relaxed, but nothing like what it was before 9/11.

[jeffandnicole]

So is a drivers license/social security card enough? I know a license isn't for federal purposes but I would think that's the most common I'd a driver would have on them.

For crossing the border? Are you seriously being dense and ignorant about the required documentation needed to cross?

[J N Winkler]

So is a drivers license/social security card enough? I know a license isn't for federal purposes but I would think that's the most common ID a driver would have on them.

Nope.

[webny99]

Anyone whose driven from Detroit-East coast through Canada tell me how it is?

I'm not quite on the east coast, but I've driven the upstate NY to MI connection through Canada many times (although not since the pandemic). It saves over an hour between Buffalo and Detroit, and over two hours between Niagara Falls and Flint, so it is absolutely worth it IMO. It's no different than crossing the border for any other reason, except that there's usually even less questioning since you won't be bringing anything into Canada to stay or (in most cases) staying overnight there.

But I also cross the border frequently, so it's not a novel experience for me and I don't really think much of it either way. But there's certainly no reason to be extra apprehensive about passing through as opposed to staying in Canada.

[kirbykart]

I-80 is only 121 miles shorter than I-80

Pretty sure that's impossible.

[hotdogPi]

I-80 is only 121 miles shorter than I-80

Pretty sure that's impossible.

I-84 is 537 miles shorter than I-84.

Under similar logic, in MMM's own words, I-80 has a gap. Not I-90.

[MultiMillionMiler]

It's 121 miles shorter than I-90. Since 300 of those I-90 miles are bootleg, I-80 is the longest interstate.

[kalvado]

So is a drivers license/social security card enough? I know a license isn't for federal purposes but I would think that's the most common ID a driver would have on them.

Nope.

ENHANCED driver license is listed as an acceptable document.

[Roadgeekteen]

It's 121 miles shorter than I-90. Since 300 of those I-90 miles are bootleg, I-80 is the longest interstate.

Bootleg according to who? You?

[ethanhopkin14]

Bootleg interstate.

[kphoger]

I-90 is imaginary between those 2 points.

All highway numbers are imaginary, unless (1) the agency in charge of route numbering officialily says what number it is, and/or (2) there are numbered route shields along the route.  In the case of I-90 where it is duplexed with I-80, both conditions are satisfactorily met.

[Roadgeekteen]

Actually, often when I did my maps, I moved I-80 off of I-90 and routed it through Fort Wayne on US 30.

[GaryV]

We have driven straight through from MI to NY a few times, and never had any problems.

Usually getting back into the US is more of a hassle than getting into Canada.

We have passports, because they're good for 10 years and so on a yearly basis they are about the same cost as a passport card or an enhanced drivers license.

[triplemultiplex]

This conversation reminds me I've gotta renew my passport before spring.

For the record, 2010 was the first year Americans were "supposed" to have a passport to enter Canada.  Because that's when I finally got one.



I'll never forget that one year, they were asking everyone about potatoes at the border going into Canada.  Like there was some kind of crop disease they were trying to keep out or something, so if you had potatoes, they'd better be frozen, you Yankee dog!

[Scott5114]

So is a drivers license/social security card enough? I know a license isn't for federal purposes but I would think that's the most common ID a driver would have on them.

Nope.

ENHANCED driver license is listed as an acceptable document.

The only states that issue an EDL are MI MN NY VT and WA. So for most people that's not an option.

In a lot of red states, even getting a REAL ID-compliant license (thus suitable for federal purposes) is a major chore. In Oklahoma, it involves booking an appointment at the tag agency in advance, and presenting all kinds of rare documents. Most Oklahomans only bother with it if they have a specific reason for doing so. I haven't yet because the last time my license was due all of the tag agencies in my area were booked for months after my license would have expired, whereas for a regular license I could get it done online in a matter of minutes. And now I don't feel like spending money to replace an unexpired license that is perfectly serviceable for my needs, since I don't ever fly anywhere.

[Flint1979]

It's 121 miles shorter than I-90. Since 300 of those I-90 miles are bootleg, I-80 is the longest interstate.

That corridor between Cleveland and Chicago is I-80 just as much as it is I-90 and I-90 just as much as it is I-80.

[MATraveler128]

It's 121 miles shorter than I-90. Since 300 of those I-90 miles are bootleg, I-80 is the longest interstate.

That corridor between Cleveland and Chicago is I-80 just as much as it is I-90 and I-90 just as much as it is I-80.

Again, why does it matter if I-80 is longer than I-90? Both are fine as is.

[Flint1979]

It's 121 miles shorter than I-90. Since 300 of those I-90 miles are bootleg, I-80 is the longest interstate.

That corridor between Cleveland and Chicago is I-80 just as much as it is I-90 and I-90 just as much as it is I-80.

Again, why does it matter if I-80 is longer than I-90? Both are fine as is.

It doesn't but I-80 isn't longer than I-90 which is just fine the way it is.

[GaryV]

It's 121 miles shorter than I-90. Since 300 of those I-90 miles are bootleg, I-80 is the longest interstate.

That corridor between Cleveland and Chicago is I-80 just as much as it is I-90 and I-90 just as much as it is I-80.

Maybe we should quit trying to rebut his constant posts about bootleg I-90, and just start reporting them as spam. He's posting the same thing over and over - isn't that the definition of spam?

[Flint1979]

It's 121 miles shorter than I-90. Since 300 of those I-90 miles are bootleg, I-80 is the longest interstate.

That corridor between Cleveland and Chicago is I-80 just as much as it is I-90 and I-90 just as much as it is I-80.

Maybe we should quit trying to rebut his constant posts about bootleg I-90, and just start reporting them as spam. He's posting the same thing over and over - isn't that the definition of spam?

I believe it is.