Texarkana (Future I-49, I-69 Spur)

[Grzrd]

But reading through the thread here (thanks for all the info, BTW) it appears the main I-69 will go through the Shreveport area instead, with just a spur to Texarkana?
Reason being is that I was trying to determine whether the future I-49 and I-69 will meet at Texarkana or Shreveport.  I can't determine which.

The I-49/I-69 interchange location is currently projected to be near Shreveport:



From Tenaha (just south of Carthage on the Alliance for I-69 Texas map you posted) to Texarkana is currently projected to be a 118 mile I-x69 spur off of mainline I-69:

The Alliance for I-69 Texas, in an article on its website, I-69 Scores Victory in Passage of MAP-21 Highway Bill, indicates that the Texarkana I-69 Spur will eventually be a 3di:

A 5-mile section of US 59 connecting to I-30 in Texarkana is being processed for designation as part of an I-69 system element. Because the primary national I-69 route extends into Louisiana south of Texarkana in Shelby County, section 118-mile section from I-30 south to Tenaha will be on the I-69 system but its specific numbering will be determined under the guidelines for interstate spur routes which carry a three-digit number using the number of the main route with an odd-number prefix such as 369 or 569.

[O Tamandua]

The I-49/I-69 interchange location is currently projected to be near Shreveport:

From Tenaha (just south of Carthage on the Alliance for I-69 Texas map you posted) to Texarkana is currently projected to be a 118 mile I-x69 spur off of mainline I-69:

The Alliance for I-69 Texas, in an article on its website, I-69 Scores Victory in Passage of MAP-21 Highway Bill, indicates that the Texarkana I-69 Spur will eventually be a 3di:

A 5-mile section of US 59 connecting to I-30 in Texarkana is being processed for designation as part of an I-69 system element. Because the primary national I-69 route extends into Louisiana south of Texarkana in Shelby County, section 118-mile section from I-30 south to Tenaha will be on the I-69 system but its specific numbering will be determined under the guidelines for interstate spur routes which carry a three-digit number using the number of the main route with an odd-number prefix such as 369 or 569.

Wow, so that's in the Shreveport metro area in DeSoto Parish, right south of the DeSoto/Caddo border that itself is not far south of the SHV limits.  Nonetheless, the Ark-La-Tex will still essentially have TWO triple-interstate towns.  Fascinating.

Used to be that SHV and Texarkana combined (each in the next county from the other though separated by a lot of pre-I-49 miles) were bigger than Fort Smith and northwest Arkansas that, like the first two cities, are in the same media markets but separated by about as much distance.  Now, Fort Smith and "NWA" have about 100,000 more people in their combined metro areas than SHV/TXK.  It will be interesting to see what growth the two triple junctions, when they happen, bring to the cities down south.

Thanks for the information!

[NE2]

Don't forget Houston. I-69 will turn it from a cow town into an oil town.

[dariusb]

The I-49/I-69 interchange location is currently projected to be near Shreveport:

From Tenaha (just south of Carthage on the Alliance for I-69 Texas map you posted) to Texarkana is currently projected to be a 118 mile I-x69 spur off of mainline I-69:

The Alliance for I-69 Texas, in an article on its website, I-69 Scores Victory in Passage of MAP-21 Highway Bill, indicates that the Texarkana I-69 Spur will eventually be a 3di:

A 5-mile section of US 59 connecting to I-30 in Texarkana is being processed for designation as part of an I-69 system element. Because the primary national I-69 route extends into Louisiana south of Texarkana in Shelby County, section 118-mile section from I-30 south to Tenaha will be on the I-69 system but its specific numbering will be determined under the guidelines for interstate spur routes which carry a three-digit number using the number of the main route with an odd-number prefix such as 369 or 569.

Wow, so that's in the Shreveport metro area in DeSoto Parish, right south of the DeSoto/Caddo border that itself is not far south of the SHV limits.  Nonetheless, the Ark-La-Tex will still essentially have TWO triple-interstate towns.  Fascinating.

Used to be that SHV and Texarkana combined (each in the next county from the other though separated by a lot of pre-I-49 miles) were bigger than Fort Smith and northwest Arkansas that, like the first two cities, are in the same media markets but separated by about as much distance.  Now, Fort Smith and "NWA" have about 100,000 more people in their combined metro areas than SHV/TXK.  It will be interesting to see what growth the two triple junctions, when they happen, bring to the cities down south.

Thanks for the information!

Texarkana and Shreveport are destined to be major distribution centers! City leaders here in Texarkana have talked about this city heading into a booming period and I don't doubt it.

[O Tamandua]

Don't forget Houston. I-69 will turn it from a cow town into an oil town.

  ANOTHER tri-interstate city.

Dariusb, when I first moved to northwest Arkansas a decade ago I saw an editorial on I-49 quoting a study that said Fort Smith would grow in size comparable to northwest Arkansas (which has seen tremendous growth) when the new interstate is built.  I realize one can make a study "say" a variety of things, but interstate crossing cities (not just junctions in remote areas, such as the I-10/20 split east of El Paso) tend to have some staying power.  At 52 I may or may not see this (though it looks like we're all readying to see I-49 between TXK and Lafayette/I-10) but it's exciting for our respective metro areas nonetheless.

[english si]

How do we define Tri-Interstate Cities? 3 different 'parent'/2di interstates?

So we currently have:
San Diego (5, 8, 15), Denver (25, 70, 76), San Antonio (10, 35, 37), Fort Worth (20, 30, 35W), Dallas (a 'quad': 20, 30, 35E, 45), Houston (10, 45, 69), Oklahoma City (35, 40, 44), Kansas City (29, 35, 70), Maidison (39, 90, 94), Quad Cities (74, 80, 88), Chicago (a 'quint': 55, 57, 88, 90, 94), Bloomington (39, 55, 74), St Louis (quad: 44, 55, 64, 70), Champaign (57, 72, 74), Memphis (quad: 22, 40, 55, 69), Slidell (10, 12, 59), Birmingham (quad: 20, 22, 59, 65), Atlanta (20, 75, 85), Chattanooga (24, 59, 75), Nashville (24, 40, 65), Louisville (64, 65, 71), Cincinnatti (71, 74, 75), Indianapolis (quad:65, 69, 70, 74), Gary (quad:65, 80, 90, 95), Detroit (75, 94, 96), Toledo (75, 80, 90), Cleveland (quad: 71, 77, 480, 90), Charlestown (64, 77, 79), Bedford (70, 76, 99), Harrisburg (76, 81, 83), Baltimore (quad:70, 83, 95, 97), DC (66, 270, 95), Columbia (20, 26, 77), Greensville (40, 73, 85), Scranton (quad:476, 380, 81, 84), Binghampton (81, 86, 88), Newark (78, 280, 95), New York (quad:78, 80, 87, 95), Boston (90, 93, 95)

Future ones would include Casa Grande (8, 10, 11), Texarkana (30, 49, x69), Shreveport (20, 49, 69), Meridian (20, 59, 85) and Milwaukee (43, US41, 94).

[US71]

Dariusb, when I first moved to northwest Arkansas a decade ago I saw an editorial on I-49 quoting a study that said Fort Smith would grow in size comparable to northwest Arkansas (which has seen tremendous growth) when the new interstate is built.  I realize one can make a study "say" a variety of things, but interstate crossing cities (not just junctions in remote areas, such as the I-10/20 split east of El Paso) tend to have some staying power.  At 52 I may or may not see this (though it looks like we're all readying to see I-49 between TXK and Lafayette/I-10) but it's exciting for our respective metro areas nonetheless.

Fort Smith is still anticipating growth. We have a new industrial park on the SE side of town that is close to where I-49 is being built. Now we just need the highway...whenever it gets here.

[Takumi]

How do we define Tri-Interstate Cities? 3 different 'parent'/2di interstates?

So we currently have:
San Diego (5, 8, 15), Denver (25, 70, 76), San Antonio (10, 35, 37), Fort Worth (20, 30, 35W), Dallas (a 'quad': 20, 30, 35E, 45), Houston (10, 45, 69), Oklahoma City (35, 40, 44), Kansas City (29, 35, 70), Maidison (39, 90, 94), Quad Cities (74, 80, 88), Chicago (a 'quint': 55, 57, 88, 90, 94), Bloomington (39, 55, 74), St Louis (quad: 44, 55, 64, 70), Champaign (57, 72, 74), Memphis (quad: 22, 40, 55, 69), Slidell (10, 12, 59), Birmingham (quad: 20, 22, 59, 65), Atlanta (20, 75, 85), Chattanooga (24, 59, 75), Nashville (24, 40, 65), Louisville (64, 65, 71), Cincinnatti (71, 74, 75), Indianapolis (quad:65, 69, 70, 74), Gary (quad:65, 80, 90, 95), Detroit (75, 94, 96), Toledo (75, 80, 90), Cleveland (quad: 71, 77, 480, 90), Charlestown (64, 77, 79), Bedford (70, 76, 99), Harrisburg (76, 81, 83), Baltimore (quad:70, 83, 95, 97), DC (66, 270, 95), Columbia (20, 26, 77), Greensville (40, 73, 85), Scranton (quad:476, 380, 81, 84), Binghampton (81, 86, 88), Newark (78, 280, 95), New York (quad:78, 80, 87, 95), Boston (90, 93, 95)

Future ones would include Casa Grande (8, 10, 11), Texarkana (30, 49, x69), Shreveport (20, 49, 69), Meridian (20, 59, 85) and Milwaukee (43, US41, 94).

Greensboro is also on the list (40, 73, 85), and Winston-Salem will be (40, 74, 285).

[english si]

Sorry, I spelt Greensboro as Greensville for some strange reason - probably the heat here!

I didn't add Winston-Salem as I-285 isn't AASHTO-approved (I didn't include the places on the I-73/I-74 corridor north of NC). I mentioned "include" for a reason.

[Anthony_JK]

Personally, I don't think that Shreveport will really blow up as a regional center until I-49 is completed to Texarkana/Fort Smith, and LA 3132 is extended to connect with I-69.

[bugo]

Kansas City has 3 through interstates: I-35, I-70, and I-29/49.

[Road Hog]

I don't know how much Fort Smith proper can physically grow unless the old Fort Chaffee can be developed. The city is landlocked by Chaffee, the Arkansas River and the Oklahoma border.

[O Tamandua]

How do we define Tri-Interstate Cities? 3 different 'parent'/2di interstates?

So we currently have (EDIT: total 46 cities that I count, with 33 of these junctions east of the Mississippi not counting the Quad Cities and St. Louis which have significant suburbs east of that river):
San Diego (5, 8, 15),
Denver (25, 70, 76),
San Antonio (10, 35, 37),
Fort Worth (20, 30, 35W),
Dallas (a 'quad': 20, 30, 35E, 45),
Houston (10, 45, 69),
Oklahoma City (35, 40, 44),
Kansas City (29, 35, 70),
Madison (39, 90, 94),
Quad Cities (74, 80, 88),
Chicago (a 'quint': 55, 57, 88, 90, 94),
Bloomington (39, 55, 74),
St Louis (quad: 44, 55, 64, 70),
Champaign (57, 72, 74),
Memphis (quad: 22, 40, 55, 69) (NOTE: won't Memphis metro in the future technically be a "quint" as the future I-555 enters the area in Turrell, AR, I believe, in Crittenden county where West Memphis is),
Slidell (10, 12, 59), (New Orleans metro)
Birmingham (quad: 20, 22, 59, 65),
Atlanta (20, 75, 85),
Chattanooga (24, 59, 75),
Nashville (24, 40, 65),
Louisville (64, 65, 71),
Cincinnatti (71, 74, 75),
Indianapolis (quad:65, 69, 70, 74),
Gary (quad:65, 80, 90, 95), (Chicago metro)
Detroit (75, 94, 96),
Toledo (75, 80, 90),
Cleveland (quad: 71, 77, 480, 90),
Charleston (64, 77, 79),
Bedford (70, 76, 99),
Harrisburg (76, 81, 83),
Baltimore (quad:70, 83, 95, 97),
DC (66, 270, 95),
Columbia (20, 26, 77),
Greensboro (NC) (40, 73, 85) (Raleigh/Winston-Salem metro),
Scranton (quad:476, 380, 81, 84),
Binghampton (81, 86, 88),
Newark (78, 280, 95),
New York (quad:78, 80, 87, 95),
Boston (90, 93, 95)

Future ones would include

Casa Grande (8, 10, 11), (Phoenix metro)
Texarkana (30, 49, x69),
Shreveport (20, 49, 69),
Meridian (20, 59, 85) and
Milwaukee (43, US41, 94).

Winston-Salem will be (40, 74, 285).

Thanks, all.

That's a pretty strong list.  The smallest cities are Bedford, PA* (the tiniest "Tri-I" city at just over 3,000 people in the borough), Meridian, MS (106,000 in the "micropolitan" area), Champaign, IL (metro area approximately 180,000), Bloomington, IL (same as Champaign metro, more on those two in a minute), Charleston* (capital of West Virginia with a 300,000 plus metro area), Binghampton NY (300,000 plus metro), Scranton, PA (quad junction with near 600,000 plus metro area).

If I were going to make a comparison with Shreveport/Texarkana I'd almost be tempted to compare them to Champaign/Bloomington...two cities each in the next county from the other but still a ways off (Champaign and McLean (Bloomington) counties are two of the five Illinois counties that are over 1,000 square miles large) with each city having an interstate going just up the road to one of the 5 largest metro areas in America (SHV/TXK, I-20 and I-35 to D/FW; Champaign (I-57) and Bloomington (I-55) to Chicago).  Interestingly, from what I can gather I-69 will increase the number of "Tri-I" (or more) cities by almost 30% west of the Mississippi.

(*Means where shared interstates (ya'll probably have a better name than that) are coming in...Bedford and Charleston are almost like dual-interstate crossings but each has an interstate with two numbers so that is a "triple-interstate" city.) 

BTW, Road Hog, I've been amazed seeing growth across the river from Fort Smith in Crawford County.  Van Buren and to a smaller extent Alma have really expanded quite a bit.

[english si]

(NOTE: won't Memphis metro in the future technically be a "quint" as the future I-555 enters the area in Turrell, AR, I believe, in Crittenden county where West Memphis is)

No, as I-55 was already counted. 3dis only counted if their parent didn't visit the city(Scranton x2, Cleveland, Texarkana).

[Takumi]

Sorry, I spelt Greensboro as Greensville for some strange reason - probably the heat here!

And I read it as Greenville, SC for some reason, not paying attention to the numbers. It's hot here too.

[O Tamandua]

(NOTE: won't Memphis metro in the future technically be a "quint" as the future I-555 enters the area in Turrell, AR, I believe, in Crittenden county where West Memphis is)

No, as I-55 was already counted. 3dis only counted if their parent didn't visit the city(Scranton x2, Cleveland, Texarkana).

Thanks for the explanation (and the list), English Si.

EDIT: One last "fun with numbers" stat then I'll stop citing digits and sit back and watch this thread as the interstate(s) draw nearer to completion.    The A.C. Nielsen company breaks the U.S. up into media markets...essentially asking "In any given American county or parish, where is the location of the television stations(s) where the majority of people in that county/parish tend to watch?"  Cities in such a market frequently see money flow to and from either the largest city in the market or between the largest cities in same.

In the list above, I gather 5 current/potential media markets with at least 2 "tri-interstate" cities:

DMA Rank/Market

1. New York City (NYC and Newark)
3. Chicago (Chicago and Gary, IN)
5. Dallas/Fort Worth (duh)
46. Greensboro/Winston-Salem/High Point (Greensboro and Winston-Salem, depending upon what highway designations the latter achieves).
83. Shreveport (the market used to be known as "Shreveport/Texarkana"...I think there's still at least one TV station located in the latter so I'm not sure why the designation has changed).

Don't get me wrong...not only will SHV/TXK not grow into an NYC or D/FW, but they'd BETTER not grow that big.  Rather, I think when these interstates are all completed we'll likely see an effect like Northwest Arkansas when that metro suddenly became home to the world's largest company, world's largest meat processor, etc. - we'll see perhaps many things happen that no one would ever have expected.

Though the "tri-interstate" status is still a looooooong way away for Shreveport and Texarkana, it's still sobering to see them approaching membership in this "club".  Being the front porch (TXK) and side door (SHV) to Texas has its privileges.

[Grzrd]

http://www.texarkanampo.org/documents/upcoming-activities/I-69-Proposed-Planning-Corridor-Citizen-Alternative.pdf

The meeting notes from the Texas I-69 Segment Committee 1's November 9, 2011 meeting confirm that the Texarkana US 59 relief route is a Recommended Priority [pages 3-4/31 of the pdf] ....
None of the above indicates near-term plans for the Texarkana US 59 relief route to proceed north of I-30 and eastward to connect with I-49.

On July 24, the Segment One Committee released its I-69 Segment One Committee Report and Recommendations. The good news is that, as one of its five major priorities, the Committee at least pays lip service to corridor preservation of the Northern Loop and the I-49 connection (page 36/155 of pdf; page 30 of document):

US 59 Relief Route at Texarkana — Committee representatives from the Texarkana area recognize that US 59 at I-30, continuing south for several miles, could potentially be designated as I-69. The committee recommends designation of US 59 in this area as soon as possible and also recommends continued study of a western relief route on US 59 from the Sulphur River Bridge to I-30 where it would serve the TexAmericas Center just west of Texarkana. The Texarkana MPO has initially studied and endorsed this route through a resolution in 2011. This resolution endorsed a full western relief route from US 59 to I-30, as recommended by the committee, as well as the portion north of I-30 that would connect with the planned I-49 corridor near the Texas/Arkansas state line.

Realistically, there is probably no money to preserve the corridor, but at least they acknowledged the need to evaluate the corridor.

edit - The Texarkana MPO study corridor (from link in quote at top of post) is below:

[Anthony_JK]

Hmmmm...I see a possible conflict here.

The Texarkana MPO proposal would shift US 59/I-69 onto their proposed Western Bypass which would connect to the proposed I-49 north heading towards Fort Smith...yet they also want the existing US 59 freeway from I-30 southward designated as I-69, too?? Are they going to upgrade the segment of US 59 from the existing freeway (also carrying TX LOOP 151) down to where it connects with the proposed "Relief Route"??

And, once again, why are they asking for I-69 shields when what they will ultimately get is I-x69? Or, I-x30 for the existing US 59/TX 151/AR 245 loop??

Talk about creating a Frankenstein..(smdh)

[Revive 755]

Chicago (a 'quint': 55, 57, 88, 90, 94)

I-88 stops about five miles short of Chicago at I-290.  If your going to include I-88, then you should at least include I-65, and possible I-80.

[english si]

I-65 is in a different state, and is more than 5 miles short of Chicago. I counted it for Gary.

I-88 would have reached the city centre if I-290 hadn't been there first. I used something not as exclusive as a city, but not as inclusive as an Urban Area/Met Area*.

*This could be because I'm British and city boundaries are crazy and urban areas run into each other here.

[Road Hog]

I-65 is in a different state, and is more than 5 miles short of Chicago. I counted it for Gary.

I-88 would have reached the city centre if I-290 hadn't been there first. I used something not as exclusive as a city, but not as inclusive as an Urban Area/Met Area*.

*This could be because I'm British and city boundaries are crazy and urban areas run into each other here.

I'd say as long as the terminus was close-in, a metro area would be close enough for government work.

[Grzrd]

This article indicates an interesting form of alternative financing for I-69, a dedicated freight fee:

James Carlow, who represents the Texarkana Chamber of Commerce for the I-69 project .... said he expects funding for the I-69 project to partially come from a dedicated 20 percent fee directed from freight revenue transferred from the Port of Houston to Texarkana.

(above quote from I-69 in TX thread)

As regards relief options in Houston, in both the I-69 Segment Two Committee Report and Recommendations (pages 37-38/157; pages 31-32 of document) and the I-69 Segment Three Committee Report and Recommendations (page 36/157; page 30 of document), the Segment Two and Segment Three Committees discussed ... important connections to the I-69 system ... at the risk of parsing the language too closely, by not limiting "important connections to the I-69 system" to highways, the Committees probably intend for studies to include non-highway options for freight, including the Freight Shuttle along the I-69 corridor (discussed in this thread).
The language regarding Houston relief options in the two Committee reports is identical:

Relief Options in Houston — In the first few months of meeting, the committee discussed ... important connections to the I-69 system.

(above quote from I-69 in TX thread)

This July 26 TV video report reports on the anticipated addition of I-69 signage to US 59 in Texarkana, and part of it has Judge Carlow discussing I-69 financing and the possibility of the Freight Shuttle on the I-69 Corridor from Houston to Texarkana.

[dariusb]

Wow. Why not number it X69? They'd have to change the I-69 shields later on. Thanks for the update.

[Revive 755]

^ Maybe they are hoping to trigger a reroute with mainline I-69 going through Texarkanna and the Shreveport section becoming the I-x69 route?

[Grzrd]

Why not number it X69? They'd have to change the I-69 shields later on.

Maybe they are hoping to trigger a reroute with mainline I-69 going through Texarkanna and the Shreveport section becoming the I-x69 route?

I think the TV report simply referred to it as I-69 because it likely has not been widely communicated that it will probably receive a spur designation. TxDOT has indicated that it will probably be numbered in a manner consistent with an interstate spur, like I-x69:

I just received a comprehensive email from TxDOT that addresses a lot of I-69 issues ...

...
How will these roads be numbered as Interstate?
...
Because the primary national I-69 route extends into Louisiana south of Texarkana, US 59 north of US 84 will be on the I-69 system but its specific numbering will be determined in consultation with FHWA, AASHTO and TxDOT.  US 59 from Texarkana to Tenaha may be designated in a manner that is consistent with an interstate spur, e.g. I-369.

(above quote from I-69 in TX thread)