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Author Topic: I-49 in Arkansas  (Read 791835 times)

sprjus4

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2625 on: July 29, 2020, 12:48:13 AM »

Tolls are not in the offerings for Arkansas.  Simply, if it needs to be tolled, it just will not be built.
Would rather see a toll bridge than no bridge.
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US71

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2626 on: July 29, 2020, 07:58:22 AM »

Tolls are not in the offerings for Arkansas.  Simply, if it needs to be tolled, it just will not be built.
Would rather see a toll bridge than no bridge.

The law would have to be changed.
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GreenLanternCorps

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2627 on: July 29, 2020, 08:05:57 AM »

Like the old cliche' goes, the best way to eat an elephant is one bite at a time!  But it's also wise not to start with trying to digest the tusks!  If scarce available funds are to be allocated all over the state, a single project such as the remainder of I-49 is best tackled in a way, as stated in the previous post, that publicly shows progress on the corridor, regardless of how limited (like an initial Super-2 around Mena or De Queen).  Enough of them, and for the most part it'll be a matter of connecting the dots except for the mountainous segment that'll essentially overlay US 71 between Mena and Waldron. 

But the Arkansas River bridge is a whole 'nuther thing -- a high-level structure over a navigable waterway with significant floodplain crossing on either side!  If anything calls for a SIU-type independent approach, Alma-Barling does!  I'm guessing tolls are still somewhere on the discussion table; it's probably a matter of deciding just how much the market will bear vs. how long it'll take to make a dent in the initial bridge cost.  But the saving grace of all of AR's share of I-49 is that the competing routes are I-44/35, which adds considerable miles to a commercial trip, or US 69 -- and I'd simply refer you to that thread to flesh out what's happening (or, more succinctly, not happening) there.  If built -- and if TX comes close to completing the I-69/369 continuum at roughly the same time, I-49 will invariably be the N-S corridor of choice for regional travel.  A few bucks in tolls won't deter commercial traffic, especially with ORT (although some subsidized structure will likely be politically necessary for locals).  But the upshot is that the bridge project needs to be "broken out" into a separately addressed issue -- possibly with a dedicated funding/development/operating authority within the AR administrative structure.  If I were ADOT, I'd start serious planning and ROW inquiries for whatever the initial non-bridge projects along I-49 will be -- it'll get the locals' interest up and potentially clamoring for funds for "their" segment(s) -- making them the proverbial "squeaky wheel".  It's worked before; and worth at least a shot!

There is one other advantage to completing I-49 between US 71 at Texarkana and AR 255 in Fort Smith.  It will create a need that does not exist yet (at least in regards to the general public's view).

Right now the I-49 Bridge doesn't connect to anything, at least in the view of a layman.  By completing the rest of the Interstate you now have a visible reason to connect the gap
« Last Edit: August 01, 2020, 07:05:34 AM by GreenLanternCorps »
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US71

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2628 on: July 29, 2020, 08:59:36 AM »


There is one other advantage to completing I-49 between US 75 at Texarkana and AR 255 in Fort Smith.  It will create a need that does not exist yet (at least in regards to the general public's view).

Right now the I-49 Bridge doesn't connect to anything, at least in the view of a layman.  By completing the rest of the Interstate you now have a visible reason to connect the gap

75 doesn't go through Texarkana. :)
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sprjus4

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2629 on: July 29, 2020, 12:38:54 PM »

^ US-71
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GreenLanternCorps

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2630 on: August 01, 2020, 07:06:30 AM »


There is one other advantage to completing I-49 between US 75 at Texarkana and AR 255 in Fort Smith.  It will create a need that does not exist yet (at least in regards to the general public's view).

Right now the I-49 Bridge doesn't connect to anything, at least in the view of a layman.  By completing the rest of the Interstate you now have a visible reason to connect the gap

75 doesn't go through Texarkana. :)

DOH!  Fixed it.
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Revive 755

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2631 on: August 01, 2020, 11:21:39 AM »

The existing I-40/I-49 interchange has to be modified significantly, if not completely re-built for I-49 to extend South.

Unless I-49 becomes the top level for a stack; Texas has a similar design for the President George Bush Turnpike at US 75 (Streetview).  A complete rebuild to a cloverstack would probably be cheaper than going for a full stack though.
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Bobby5280

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2632 on: August 03, 2020, 04:36:45 PM »

In a directional stack arrangement, yes, the main lanes of I-49 would have to be built on the fourth level above the existing ramps of the existing interchange. The problem with the ramps in the existing interchange is they're all single lane. Most stack interchanges in Texas have 2 lane wide directional ramps that leave the main roadway, rise up and then split into 2 ramps. Various partial stacks have stubs at the split for adding additional ramps later. The ramps for the I-40/I-49 interchange in Alma don't have any of that stuff. Plus, IIRC, the interchange is around 30 years old.

There's really no telling what the final design may be for that remodeled interchange. But it's a safe bet it won't be built any time soon.
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GreenLanternCorps

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2633 on: August 05, 2020, 01:55:48 PM »

I found this picture on the Build I-49 Facebook page.  It is from the future I-49 - US 71 interchange.  It appears to be looking Northwest, AR 549 (Future I-49) is on the left of the photo.

« Last Edit: August 05, 2020, 03:59:16 PM by GreenLanternCorps »
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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2634 on: August 31, 2020, 06:37:29 AM »

I was always under the impression roads and rail, well basically all infrastructure, pays for itself in the way of allowing society to function and prosper.

This is what conservatives don't understand. They think everything that the government and society do must be for a profit, and they shouldn't do things just for the betterment of society. That is why the ones who actually understand the meaning of "socialism" oppose it so much. They get it wrong because without government investment, we would have no services and no modern society. And they also don't seem to understand that public roads and services are examples of socialism. The majority of conservatives believe "socialism" means "Stalinist communism" and think anybody to the left of Mussolini is a communist, even though they don't know the meaning of that word, either. We need a mass education effort in this country to straighten out the false beliefs and delusions that are so common today.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2020, 10:47:38 PM by bugo »
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US71

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2635 on: August 31, 2020, 11:10:19 AM »

I was always under the impression roads and rail, well basically all infrastructure, pays for itself in the way of allowing society to function and prosper.

This is what conservatives don't understand. They think everything that the government and society do must be for a[profit, and they shouldn't do things just for the betterment of society. That is why the ones who actually understand the meaning of "socialism" oppose it so much. They get it wrong because without government investment, we would have no services and no modern society. And they also don't seem to understand that public roads and services are examples of socialism. The majority of conservatives believe "socialism" means "Stalinist communism" and think anybody to the left of Mussolini is a communist, even though they don't know the meaning of that word, either. We need a mass education effort in this country to straighten out the false beliefs and delusions that are so common today.

They've been brainwashed by the Reich Wing
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bwana39

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2636 on: August 31, 2020, 03:19:14 PM »

I was always under the impression roads and rail, well basically all infrastructure, pays for itself in the way of allowing society to function and prosper.

This is what conservatives don't understand. They think everything that the government and society do must be for a[profit, and they shouldn't do things just for the betterment of society. That is why the ones who actually understand the meaning of "socialism" oppose it so much. They get it wrong because without government investment, we would have no services and no modern society. And they also don't seem to understand that public roads and services are examples of socialism. The majority of conservatives believe "socialism" means "Stalinist communism" and think anybody to the left of Mussolini is a communist, even though they don't know the meaning of that word, either. We need a mass education effort in this country to straighten out the false beliefs and delusions that are so common today.

No I disagree. The things government and society do should profit the whole of the society. I think the rub is that there remains questions over if given projects benefit society in general or just select members. This question rubs both ways.
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kphoger

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2637 on: August 31, 2020, 03:35:57 PM »

Socialism means non-privately-owned means of production.  It doesn't really pertain all that much to highways.

Conservatives are ones who tend strongly to keeping the status quo.  One can be both a conservative and a liberal (free speech being one example of an ideal of both), but generally one cannot be both a conservative and left-wing.  Politically, conservatives tend to be warm to things being "for profit" because they believe profit drives economic growth, while taking profit out of the equation leads to inflated costs and inferior results.  As such, they believe that things being "for a profit" is "for the betterment of society".  When it comes to infrastructure, then, their natural reaction to a potential project would be:  If nobody is already building it for profit, then I remain skeptical that it's the most beneficial use of our resources.
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chays

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2638 on: September 01, 2020, 03:24:47 PM »

Bing maps is now showing in their roads layer that the Bella Vista Bypass is complete. However, it is not currently routable.

https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=44214785-7ea6-4981-84ec-a934a2e8df39&cp=36.516305~-94.330104&lvl=12&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027
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US71

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2639 on: September 01, 2020, 03:26:57 PM »

Bing maps is now showing in their roads layer that the Bella Vista Bypass is complete. However, it is not currently routable.

https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=44214785-7ea6-4981-84ec-a934a2e8df39&cp=36.516305~-94.330104&lvl=12&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027

I see the map is co-signed I-49 and AR 549.
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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2640 on: September 01, 2020, 06:45:18 PM »

Bing maps is now showing in their roads layer that the Bella Vista Bypass is complete. However, it is not currently routable.

https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=44214785-7ea6-4981-84ec-a934a2e8df39&cp=36.516305~-94.330104&lvl=12&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027

I see the map is co-signed I-49 and AR 549.

I'd take that "completion" with a shaker -- rather than a simple grain -- of salt!  And it looks like the only "mapped" I-49 signage is at the ends of the project at the termini of each state's completed segment.  At least they didn't continue the 549 designation into MO, which doesn't follow ARDOT's "temporary" numbering idiom.  Bing Maps is certainly jumping the gun a bit with this one!
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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2641 on: September 01, 2020, 06:47:51 PM »

Looks like a couple developers got excited!
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sprjus4

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2642 on: September 01, 2020, 06:48:53 PM »

^

Somebody also peaked at the design plans enough to realize while the Arkansas section has a 60 foot median, the Missouri section has a concrete barrier and narrow footprint. This is accurately represented by the lines they drew.
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Bobby5280

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2643 on: September 01, 2020, 10:43:09 PM »

Looks like Missouri really has to finish their part of the BVP now!

I just hope none of this premature data is migrated into any automobile GPS systems. You might have people driving off into the wild blue yonder. The situation reminds me of the movie Speed (jeez, is that movie really 26 years old now?). There's the scene where they find out there's a gap in the freeway ahead:
Norwood: "Sir we have a serious problem."
Capt. McMahon: "What?"
Norwood: "This freeway isn't finished!"
Capt. McMahon: "What are you talking about?"
Norwood: "The aerial unit caught it about 3 miles ahead. There's a section missing!"
Capt. McMahon: "Section missing?" (grabs a map out of his vest)
Capt. McMahon: "But it's on the map! It's finished on the Goddamn map!"
Norwood: "I guess they fell behind!"
Capt. McMahon: "Fuck. You're fired. Everybody's fuckin' fired!"

« Last Edit: September 01, 2020, 10:58:57 PM by Bobby5280 »
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US71

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2644 on: September 01, 2020, 10:50:38 PM »

Looks like Missouri really has to finish their part of the BVP now!

I just hope none of this premature data is migrated into any automobile GPS systems. You might have people driving off into the wild blue yonder. The situation reminds me of the movie Speed (jeez, is that movie really 26 years old now?). There's the scene where they find out there's a gap in the freeway ahead:
Norwood: "Sir we have a serious problem."
Capt. McMahon: "What?"
Norwood: "This freeway isn't finished!"
Capt. McMahon: "What are you talking about?"
Norwood: "About 3 miles ahead there's a section missing!"
Capt. McMahon: "Section missing?" (reaches for map)
Capt. McMahon: "But it's on the map! It's finished! On the Goddamn map!"
Norwood: "I guess they fell behind!"
Capt. McMahon: "Fuck. You're fired. Everybody's fucking fired!"



They are working on it. MoDOT has been doing blasting in the vicinity of the 49/71 split near Pineville.
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bwana39

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2645 on: September 02, 2020, 02:59:59 PM »

Bing maps is now showing in their roads layer that the Bella Vista Bypass is complete. However, it is not currently routable.

https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=44214785-7ea6-4981-84ec-a934a2e8df39&cp=36.516305~-94.330104&lvl=12&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027

This reminds me of my first significant trip using GPS on my phone.  We missed a turn at Merced. When we looked at what the GPS suggested, it took us out across nowhere. We wound up in Raymond. I don't think it was Raymond Road. It started out as a fair paved road. Then it turned to rock. The GPS was still routing us along. There were wooden signs at intersections. That pointed one way or another. Then it turned to a maintained dirt road.  At some point, we are on a dirt trail. Once, I had to get out and herd the cows out of the "road". We lost phone signal (and the phone based maps). We came to another intersection. There were no legible signs, no GPS signal, just a guess.  I guessed right. The next intersection (a mile or less away) was a paved road.

It was an adventure, but it felt a little hairy for a while.  I learned something. I had thought cool weather agriculture (fresh vegetables) and some dairy cattle was the the limits of significant farming and ranching in California. I saw thousands heads of  beef cattle and some soybeans.

I digress, just because your GPS says, doe NOT mean it is what you should do. 

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edwaleni

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2646 on: September 03, 2020, 09:48:49 AM »

Yes, there is also the story of the couple in their rental SUV who followed their GPS blindly which took them up what was essentially a logging road and they got caught in a blizzard on a pass and nearly froze to death.

Google Maps is not a common sense replacement.
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US71

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2647 on: September 03, 2020, 12:14:34 PM »

Yes, there is also the story of the couple in their rental SUV who followed their GPS blindly which took them up what was essentially a logging road and they got caught in a blizzard on a pass and nearly froze to death.

Google Maps is not a common sense replacement.

I thought that was common sense? :p
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ozarkman417

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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2648 on: September 03, 2020, 02:01:31 PM »

It's not good that Bing added it so early, but who actually uses Bing Maps? I'd think most people would have the common sense to not crash through a ROAD CLOSED sign.

That said, is it better (or worse) to add a road months ahead of time, or months after it is done? Given our reliance on those programs, I would say after.
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Re: I-49 in Arkansas
« Reply #2649 on: September 03, 2020, 02:20:29 PM »

It's not good that Bing added it so early, but who actually uses Bing Maps? I'd think most people would have the common sense to not crash through a ROAD CLOSED sign.

That said, is it better (or worse) to add a road months ahead of time, or months after it is done? Given our reliance on those programs, I would say after.

Probably the latter. I remember when Rand McNally had I-269 complete on maps 2 full years before the road was completed (I want to say it was the 2017 and 2018 versions, I don't remember clearly). At least I-269 ended on a 4 lane highway (MS-302) unlike I-49 on some small two lane road.
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