Metrication

[SSOWorld]

https://xkcd.com/526/

[kalvado]

And I still have to hear "gibibyte" used in the wild.

"Gibibyte" is only necessary because some asshole capitalists decided it'd be a great idea to rip everyone off by 24 bytes out of every thousand when selling storage. A kilobyte was always 1024 bytes except when buying hard drives. Thus "kibibyte", since there became a need to have a term to distinguish "real kilobyte" from "capitalist kilobyte".

Probably not. It was likely some user of feet and miles who thought they can do same trick as playing tonne vs ton or statue mile vs nautical mile in decimal world.

[kkt]

And I still have to hear "gibibyte" used in the wild.

"Gibibyte" is only necessary because some asshole capitalists decided it'd be a great idea to rip everyone off by 24 bytes out of every thousand when selling storage. A kilobyte was always 1024 bytes except when buying hard drives. Thus "kibibyte", since there became a need to have a term to distinguish "real kilobyte" from "capitalist kilobyte".

I'm guessing it has to do with most people thinking in base 10, so they would have seen a base 10 system as more understandable than a base 2 system.

Measuring computer storage, both memory and disc, in multiples of 1024 bytes is the natural unit and was well established by the late 1960s. And there was indeed a large element of saving a few bucks by marketing hard drives in multiples of 1000 bytes.  The spiritual kin of changing the 16-oz cans of beans to 15-oz cans of beans.

[CtrlAltDel]

The imperial system is actually based on base-2. Eight ounces in a cup, two cups in a pint, two pints in a quart, four quarts in a gallon etc.

Not entirely of course. There's also 3 teaspoons in a tablespoon, 3 feet in a yard, 231 cubic inches in a gallon, and so on.

[US 89]

231 cubic inches in a gallon

Well, in the US gallon. The Imperial gallon, which is about 1.2 US gallons, was originally the volume of water that weighed 10 pounds at 62ºF. It's now technically defined in terms of the metric system, but that relationship is still pretty accurate. Because there are 20 fluid ounces in an imperial pint, one imperial fluid ounce of water actually weighs an ounce.

The history here is that a "gallon" was the standard customary volume measurement...but how big it was varied. If you were measuring beer or ale, a gallon was 282 cubic inches, but a gallon of wine had been standardized at 231 cubic inches, and a gallon of corn was 272 cubic inches. As you might expect, this got to be a mess, especially when things other than beer, wine, or corn were being measured. So in 1824, when the UK standardized a bunch of units to be used throughout the British Empire (hence, Imperial units), they abolished all the old gallons and defined a new Imperial gallon that was based on the old ale gallon.

Which makes sense...except the US was of course its own country by that point, so we never used the Imperial system here and it was the wine gallon that became the standard. The corn gallon developed into the dry gallon, which is not used anymore but several units based on it still are. Which has resulted in a messy system where we have liquid and dry volume units with the same name but different actual volumes. A dry pint is about 20% bigger than a liquid pint. At least dry volumes are fairly unusual these days...

[kalvado]

And I still have to hear "gibibyte" used in the wild.

"Gibibyte" is only necessary because some asshole capitalists decided it'd be a great idea to rip everyone off by 24 bytes out of every thousand when selling storage. A kilobyte was always 1024 bytes except when buying hard drives. Thus "kibibyte", since there became a need to have a term to distinguish "real kilobyte" from "capitalist kilobyte".

I'm guessing it has to do with most people thinking in base 10, so they would have seen a base 10 system as more understandable than a base 2 system.

Measuring computer storage, both memory and disc, in multiples of 1024 bytes is the natural unit and was well established by the late 1960s. And there was indeed a large element of saving a few bucks by marketing hard drives in multiples of 1000 bytes.  The spiritual kin of changing the 16-oz cans of beans to 15-oz cans of beans.

That's why "bi" units were introduced.
As for marketing, when did 19200 started to be abbreviated to 19.2? So much for "natural"

[kkt]

"Bi" units were a response to that but much later.  Mid 1980s if I remember correctly.

At least 19.2 kbaud is exactly 19,200 baud

[Scott5114]

For what it's worth, I don't remember seeing the "bi" units in UI until the late 2000s (probably around when KDE 4 came out).

[CtrlAltDel]

231 cubic inches in a gallon

Well, in the US gallon. The Imperial gallon, which is about 1.2 US gallons, was originally the volume of water that weighed 10 pounds at 62ºF. It's now technically defined in terms of the metric system, but that relationship is still pretty accurate. Because there are 20 fluid ounces in an imperial gallon, one imperial fluid ounce of water actually weighs an ounce.

20 ounces in an imperial pint. That typo aside, that's why, as I suspect you already know, the phrase, "a pint's a pound, the world around," isn't true. Where the imperial gallon is (or was) used, a pint would weigh a pound and a quarter.

Just for clarity's sake, as I also suspect you already know, both gallons are divided into 4 quarts and 8 pints, but the imperial pint has 20 fluid ounces, while the US pint has 16. But the fluid ounces here are different. The Imperial ounce is 28.4 milliliters, while the US ounce is 29.6. Fun!

The corn gallon developed into the dry gallon, which is not used anymore but several units based on it still are. Which has resulted in a messy system where we have liquid and dry volume units with the same name but different actual volumes. A dry pint is about 20% bigger than a liquid pint. At least dry volumes are fairly unusual these days...

I've bought strawberries and so on in dry pints, but that is pretty much it.

[kalvado]

For what it's worth, I don't remember seeing the "bi" units in UI until the late 2000s (probably around when KDE 4 came out).

I definitely saw those units before 2000, and it was pretty much a curiosity at that point.
As for "capitalist way of doing it".. I bet 1.2 and 1.44 floppy were the first for "1 megabyte = 1000 kilobyte"

[US 89]

For what it's worth, I don't remember seeing the "bi" units in UI until the late 2000s (probably around when KDE 4 came out).

I definitely saw those units before 2000, and it was pretty much a curiosity at that point.
As for "capitalist way of doing it".. I bet 1.2 and 1.44 floppy were the first for "1 megabyte = 1000 kilobyte"

Either that, or someone got anal that anything with the prefix "kilo"  had to have exactly 1000 of whatever unit to keep the SI unit consistent. Academia tends to attract a lot of that kind of thing.

[kalvado]

For what it's worth, I don't remember seeing the "bi" units in UI until the late 2000s (probably around when KDE 4 came out).

I definitely saw those units before 2000, and it was pretty much a curiosity at that point.
As for "capitalist way of doing it".. I bet 1.2 and 1.44 floppy were the first for "1 megabyte = 1000 kilobyte"

Either that, or someone got anal that anything with the prefix "kilo"  had to have exactly 1000 of whatever unit to keep the SI unit consistent. Academia tends to attract a lot of that kind of thing.

Next thing you know definitions are all over the place. yes, this is about keeping definitions well defined. "Kilo" means 1000, not 1024 nor 965.

[mgk920]

Well, I'm not the one who decreed that most people (and other creatures) have hands with ten fingers in total and feet with ten toes in total . . .

Mike

[vdeane]

And I still have to hear "gibibyte" used in the wild.

"Gibibyte" is only necessary because some asshole capitalists decided it'd be a great idea to rip everyone off by 24 bytes out of every thousand when selling storage. A kilobyte was always 1024 bytes except when buying hard drives. Thus "kibibyte", since there became a need to have a term to distinguish "real kilobyte" from "capitalist kilobyte".

I'm guessing it has to do with most people thinking in base 10, so they would have seen a base 10 system as more understandable than a base 2 system.

Measuring computer storage, both memory and disc, in multiples of 1024 bytes is the natural unit and was well established by the late 1960s. And there was indeed a large element of saving a few bucks by marketing hard drives in multiples of 1000 bytes.  The spiritual kin of changing the 16-oz cans of beans to 15-oz cans of beans.

Natural for computer scientists, yes, because a byte can be 0 or 1 so base 2 makes sense.  For people who don't know the first thing about how computers work and quite frankly couldn't care less?  Decimal probably feels more natural.

Incidentally, it's not just hard drives that do this: RAM does it too.

[kkt]

And I still have to hear "gibibyte" used in the wild.

"Gibibyte" is only necessary because some asshole capitalists decided it'd be a great idea to rip everyone off by 24 bytes out of every thousand when selling storage. A kilobyte was always 1024 bytes except when buying hard drives. Thus "kibibyte", since there became a need to have a term to distinguish "real kilobyte" from "capitalist kilobyte".

I'm guessing it has to do with most people thinking in base 10, so they would have seen a base 10 system as more understandable than a base 2 system.

Measuring computer storage, both memory and disc, in multiples of 1024 bytes is the natural unit and was well established by the late 1960s. And there was indeed a large element of saving a few bucks by marketing hard drives in multiples of 1000 bytes.  The spiritual kin of changing the 16-oz cans of beans to 15-oz cans of beans.

Natural for computer scientists, yes, because a byte can be 0 or 1 so base 2 makes sense.  For people who don't know the first thing about how computers work and quite frankly couldn't care less?  Decimal probably feels more natural.

Incidentally, it's not just hard drives that do this: RAM does it too.

It's a bit that can be either 0 or 1.  A byte is usually 8 bits.

Hard drive and flash memory sales literature typically refers to decimal units, but RAM is typically sold in binary units.  And many computer OSs - MacOS included - refer to both using binary units.

Typically people who don't know the first thing about computers aren't opening the case at all, let alone installing more memory.

[Big John]

Or go to college basketball, where jersey numbers are base 6.

[kkt]

Or go to college basketball, where jersey numbers are base 6.

Are you serious?

[Big John]

Or go to college basketball, where jersey numbers are base 6.

Are you serious?

Yes, show me an American college basketball jersey in the last 60 years containing a number 6 to 9, players only, no mascots or fans.

[7/8]

(Regarding learning Celsius gradations, BTW, I heard an old poem that's useful: "0 is freezing, 10 is not. 20 is room temperature and 30 is hot." I might quibble that 30 is "hot"–it's 86°F–but the principle is reasonable on the whole.)

Nah, 30C is definitely hot.
- Signed by a Canadian

And that's when someone from Arizona materializes and screams "YoU hAvEn'T eXpErIeNcEd ReAl HeAt!" 

After working outside in low 30's a few weeks ago, and I could barely get my socks off because of sweat, I stand by my statement that 30C is hot!

https://xkcd.com/526/

Again, 26C isn't beach weather? What the heck

The imperial system is actually based on base-2. Eight ounces in a cup, two cups in a pint, two pints in a quart, four quarts in a gallon etc.

Not entirely of course. There's also 3 teaspoons in a tablespoon, 3 feet in a yard, 231 cubic inches in a gallon, and so on.

Don't forget 1760 yards in a mile, should be changed to 1776 for patriotism (only a 0.9% increase in length, what's the worst that could happen)?

[Scott5114]

(Regarding learning Celsius gradations, BTW, I heard an old poem that's useful: "0 is freezing, 10 is not. 20 is room temperature and 30 is hot." I might quibble that 30 is "hot"–it's 86°F–but the principle is reasonable on the whole.)

Nah, 30C is definitely hot.
- Signed by a Canadian

And that's when someone from Arizona materializes and screams "YoU hAvEn'T eXpErIeNcEd ReAl HeAt!" 

After working outside in low 30's a few weeks ago, and I could barely get my socks off because of sweat, I stand by my statement that 30C is hot!

Yesterday, it was still 30°C here at 1 am. The high that day was 39°.

[kalvado]

And I still have to hear "gibibyte" used in the wild.

"Gibibyte" is only necessary because some asshole capitalists decided it'd be a great idea to rip everyone off by 24 bytes out of every thousand when selling storage. A kilobyte was always 1024 bytes except when buying hard drives. Thus "kibibyte", since there became a need to have a term to distinguish "real kilobyte" from "capitalist kilobyte".

I'm guessing it has to do with most people thinking in base 10, so they would have seen a base 10 system as more understandable than a base 2 system.

Measuring computer storage, both memory and disc, in multiples of 1024 bytes is the natural unit and was well established by the late 1960s. And there was indeed a large element of saving a few bucks by marketing hard drives in multiples of 1000 bytes.  The spiritual kin of changing the 16-oz cans of beans to 15-oz cans of beans.

Natural for computer scientists, yes, because a byte can be 0 or 1 so base 2 makes sense.  For people who don't know the first thing about how computers work and quite frankly couldn't care less?  Decimal probably feels more natural.

Incidentally, it's not just hard drives that do this: RAM does it too.

Natural for memory chips using N address pins and having each combination refer to a valid storage bit.
For disks, even taking some old floppy with 80 tracks (cylinders), 9 sectors per track, 2 sides and 512 bytes per sector...decimal number of kilobytes is as much à powers of 2work naturally.
For today's flash memory with 174 layers and 3 bits per cell in each layer even that doesn't work well. There may still be same logic of "n pins, 2^n location" but it is completely obscured on a disk level with error correction, caches, service and reserve areas.

[kalvado]

(Regarding learning Celsius gradations, BTW, I heard an old poem that's useful: "0 is freezing, 10 is not. 20 is room temperature and 30 is hot." I might quibble that 30 is "hot"–it's 86°F–but the principle is reasonable on the whole.)

Nah, 30C is definitely hot.
- Signed by a Canadian

And that's when someone from Arizona materializes and screams "YoU hAvEn'T eXpErIeNcEd ReAl HeAt!" 

After working outside in low 30's a few weeks ago, and I could barely get my socks off because of sweat, I stand by my statement that 30C is hot!

Yesterday, it was still 30°C here at 1 am. The high that day was 39°.

Make it 40 and start bottling.

[Road Hog]

Or go to college basketball, where jersey numbers are base 6.

Are you serious?

Yes, show me an American college basketball jersey in the last 60 years containing a number 6 to 9, players only, no mascots or fans.

That's for the ref's simplification so he or she only needs one hand to signal who committed a foul. That's all that is.

[Brandon]

Well, I'm not the one who decreed that most people (and other creatures) have hands with ten fingers in total and feet with ten toes in total . . .

Mike

Four fingers plus one thumb on each hand.

[kkt]

Or go to college basketball, where jersey numbers are base 6.

Are you serious?

Yes, show me an American college basketball jersey in the last 60 years containing a number 6 to 9, players only, no mascots or fans.

I'll take your word for it.  I had no idea.  What a strange custom.