WaPo: Why Highway 1 is the climate challenge that California can’t fix

[DTComposer]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2024/05/07/california-highway1-climate-change-landslide/

[Plutonic Panda]

Pretty sure it can be fixed. It's just not gonna be a quick cheap fix like it used to be in the past. I'm kinda talking out of my ass On that one because I don't know Much about the history of landslides in this area that i'm sure they've happened many times before. Climate change or not erosion. It's going to happen and if it happens more frequently due to climate change then Caltrans can come up with better solutions for more resilient roads. More bridges and tunnels might have to be part of the long term solution.

[Max Rockatansky]

There never has been a time where slides weren't a problem on 1 in Big Sur.   This isn't a new phenomenon and will continue to happen. 

It is worth noting that state highway departments don't build roads like 1 in Big Sur anymore.  Wedging modern expectations into a highway from a different era of road building is missing the point about what makes the segment special.

[cahwyguy]

Pretty sure it can be fixed. It's just not gonna be a quick cheap fix like it used to be in the past. I'm kinda talking out of my ass On that one because I don't know Much about the history of landslides in this area that i'm sure they've happened many times before. Climate change or not erosion. It's going to happen and if it happens more frequently due to climate change then Caltrans can come up with better solutions for more resilient roads. More bridges and tunnels might have to be part of the long term solution.

More working through the older posts for the highway pages...

There's a presumption here that it is always possible or feasible to build a tunnel or bridges. In reality, soil conditions and geological factors may preclude tunnels. Ventilation issues may preclude tunnels. Length, and the ability for access for emergency vehicles may preclude tunnels.  And, of course, cost may preclude tunnels, as tunneling is expensive.

Bridges have other issues, from suitable anchor points to suspension issues. Bridges also require ends, and locating and building the highway to those ends is also an issue. The geology for anchoring the ends.

This boils down to the old "lines on a map" problem.  You can't just draw the line and assume some road is feasible. Were Sparker still here, he'd point out many roads in the state that just couldn't be built due to geology or ownership problems.

Unless you are a SME (subject matter expert) in the particular area and soils, it is better to observe.

[Max Rockatansky]

Isn't this all scheduled to reopen now by Fall?

[Plutonic Panda]

Pretty sure it can be fixed. It's just not gonna be a quick cheap fix like it used to be in the past. I'm kinda talking out of my ass On that one because I don't know Much about the history of landslides in this area that i'm sure they've happened many times before. Climate change or not erosion. It's going to happen and if it happens more frequently due to climate change then Caltrans can come up with better solutions for more resilient roads. More bridges and tunnels might have to be part of the long term solution.

More working through the older posts for the highway pages...

There's a presumption here that it is always possible or feasible to build a tunnel or bridges. In reality, soil conditions and geological factors may preclude tunnels. Ventilation issues may preclude tunnels. Length, and the ability for access for emergency vehicles may preclude tunnels.  And, of course, cost may preclude tunnels, as tunneling is expensive.

Bridges have other issues, from suitable anchor points to suspension issues. Bridges also require ends, and locating and building the highway to those ends is also an issue. The geology for anchoring the ends.

This boils down to the old "lines on a map" problem.  You can't just draw the line and assume some road is feasible. Were Sparker still here, he'd point out many roads in the state that just couldn't be built due to geology or ownership problems.

Unless you are a SME (subject matter expert) in the particular area and soils, it is better to observe.

That would probably be a fairly rare scenario where geology would prevent a tunnel from being built. They have it pretty bad in the Palos Verdes and they still manage but who knows how long that is going to last. There is a nice church there I would go to and meditate at that will have to be torn down for the time being.

I'm not doubting what you're saying but even though I'm not a subject matter expert I don't think that implies I shouldn't share an opinion. Should that be the case why have public hearings and meetings at all for major transportation projects where the public who are SME's give their opinion?

I do think tunnels would be shot down due to cost and what's the point of driving scenic coastal highway if you can't see the scenery because you're in a tunnel? If this keeps happening will Big Sur become an abandoned town at some point in the future? Would it be more cost effective to buy out the town and relocate it? It's happened before elsewhere. Just food for thought.

[Plutonic Panda]

Isn't this all scheduled to reopen now by Fall?

That's Caltrans is saying.

[cahwyguy]

I do think tunnels would be shot down due to cost and what's the point of driving scenic coastal highway if you can't see the scenery because you're in a tunnel? If this keeps happening will Big Sur become an abandoned town at some point in the future? Would it be more cost effective to buy out the town and relocate it? It's happened before elsewhere. Just food for thought.

No, but it might not be on a state highway anymore. It might be on a county highway, in an area that can't be accessed during the winter months. It was that way before.

[Max Rockatansky]

I'd venture a guess that the amount of tourism tax revenue 1 in Big Sur brings is more than enough to offset the cost of maintaining it.

[Plutonic Panda]

I do think tunnels would be shot down due to cost and what's the point of driving scenic coastal highway if you can't see the scenery because you're in a tunnel? If this keeps happening will Big Sur become an abandoned town at some point in the future? Would it be more cost effective to buy out the town and relocate it? It's happened before elsewhere. Just food for thought.

No, but it might not be on a state highway anymore. It might be on a county highway, in an area that can't be accessed during the winter months. It was that way before.

So where would CA-1 be relocated to or would it just become a gap?

[cahwyguy]

So where would CA-1 be relocated to or would it just become a gap?

Most likely, it would become a gap (or even more likely, they would just relinquish the roadway, and it would become an unconstructed segment, like Route 211). The latter would effectively be a gap, without having to do anything legislatively. The issue would be a balance between the cost to maintain, vs. the cost to tourism. Also likely is that they would make the gap as small as possible, and make the relinquished roadway "locals only", so as to reduce risk as well as reducing stress on the road.

[Max Rockatansky]

Here is the actual latest, along with a projected timeline. 

https://www.sanluisobispo.com/news/local/article288525059.html

Engaging in a little conjecture of my own I don't see 1 in Big Sur ever getting the 39 Islip Saddle Special.  There is way too much tourism dollars at play and people with actual political influence to please. 

[ClassicHasClass]

I suspect we'd have a second Lost Coast further south if Caltrans were determining CA 1's routing today.

[cl94]

1 brings in far too much money for the locals to accept closing part of it. Tourists driving 1 basically subsidize the existence of every town between Monterey and SLO. And, well, all of the luxury resorts that rake in the tax dollars.

[Alps]

The idea of tunnels and bridges comes through in Norway, but well, our engineering and our driving don't line up with theirs.

[Plutonic Panda]

The idea of tunnels and bridges comes through in Norway, but well, our engineering and our driving don't line up with theirs.

I've made this point time and time again. Everywhere else seems to be able to do it. California must be special. Idk

[Max Rockatansky]

What other state has their own specific process of environmental review? 

[vdeane]

What other state has their own specific process of environmental review? 

New York has its own SEQR law in additional to the federal NEPA law.

[Max Rockatansky]

What other state has their own specific process of environmental review? 

New York has its own SEQR law in additional to the federal NEPA law.

I've always wondered if there was some commonality with stuff like modern tunnels not being built in states with similar environmental laws.  Yeah, seismic stuff here is often an issue but it isn't really universal problem. 

[Plutonic Panda]

What other state has their own specific process of environmental review? 

New York has its own SEQR law in additional to the federal NEPA law.

I've always wondered if there was some commonality with stuff like modern tunnels not being built in states with similar environmental laws.  Yeah, seismic stuff here is often an issue but it isn't really universal problem. 

Would tunnels not be less disruptive to the environment?

[Max Rockatansky]

What other state has their own specific process of environmental review? 

New York has its own SEQR law in additional to the federal NEPA law.

I've always wondered if there was some commonality with stuff like modern tunnels not being built in states with similar environmental laws.  Yeah, seismic stuff here is often an issue but it isn't really universal problem. 

Would tunnels not be less disruptive to the environment?

Probably not.  All the same, "environmental review" doesn't per se just mean stuff in the natural world.  People bitching about a tunnel would be part of an EIR also.

[kkt]

If it reopens, I really ought to go drive it at least once more.  It's been a long time.

[jdbx]

This boils down to the old "lines on a map" problem.  You can't just draw the line and assume some road is feasible. Were Sparker still here, he'd point out many roads in the state that just couldn't be built due to geology or ownership problems.

Did you (or anybody) ever get confirmation about what happened to Sparker? His contributions to the forum were always extremely informative and interesting. I know that he was not a young man, so perhaps the logical conclusion is the correct one, I was just curious.  Regardless, I'm grateful that we got to experience his insight while he was active in this community.

[Max Rockatansky]

He owned a music store in San Jose.  His name was kind of generic though and it made searching for anything on his status difficult.

[TheStranger]

He owned a music store in San Jose.  His name was kind of generic though and it made searching for anything on his status difficult.

Is this the place?

https://www.yelp.com/biz/sounds-unique-san-jose