Street Blade Signs Changing (All Uppercase > Mixed Case)?

[Scott5114]

When the feds get to the point that they dictate coloration and lettering sizes/fonts on city street signs, then that's proof positive that the federal government is too big and too powerful and the MUTCD is too anal.

Nothing can be further from the truth. That's the point of the MUTCD. Really, I like being able to read sign blades. Anything that takes away the various Oklahoma road agencies' power to be incompetent crocks of shit helps.

[J N Winkler]

When the feds get to the point that they dictate coloration and lettering sizes/fonts on city street signs, then that's proof positive that the federal government is too big and too powerful and the MUTCD is too anal.

You just had to get that in!

[MichiganDriver]

When the feds get to the point that they dictate coloration and lettering sizes/fonts on city street signs, then that's proof positive that the federal government is too big and too powerful and the MUTCD is too anal.

Last time I checked city street signs were a traffic control device. Why the idea that city street signs being subject to some standards is bad is beyond me.

[Scott5114]

It would probably make more sense to take further discussion of this to the old Road sign fonts and states' rights thread, where this point was discussed at length. Feel free to bump with content.

[flowmotion]

Last time I checked city street signs were a traffic control device. Why the idea that city street signs being subject to some standards is bad is beyond me.

Having "some" standards or general guidelines for street signs is probably a good idea. However, I don't see the need to treat them as a "uniform" traffic control device.

Also, it seems that the more exclusive upper-class suburbs are the most likely to use fancy street signage. I have a feeling a few congressmen are going to making hay about this.

[iwishiwascanadian]

I was in The City today and saw the new Clearview signs and they don't look too bad, I would rather have the old ones, but I won't mount a protest at City Hall. 

[MichiganDriver]

Last time I checked city street signs were a traffic control device. Why the idea that city street signs being subject to some standards is bad is beyond me.

Having "some" standards or general guidelines for street signs is probably a good idea. However, I don't see the need to treat them as a "uniform" traffic control device.

Also, it seems that the more exclusive upper-class suburbs are the most likely to use fancy street signage. I have a feeling a few congressmen are going to making hay about this.

I suspect a major reason why the FHWA cracked down on street signs is that cities were picking them based on looks rather than whether they were legible to drivers.

[Alex]

ALL CAPS? Not OK on road signs, federal government says

This article factors into the earlier discussion on street signs. Feel free to split this into its own topic.

CAN YOU READ THIS?

There, is that better?

In a nod to the fading eyesight of the nation's growing number of aging Baby Boomers, the federal government is requiring communities around the USA to change street name signs from all capital letters to a combination of capital and lowercase letters. The government says that makes them easier to read.

Cash-starved localities also will have to dig deep for new, more reflective traffic signs to make them easier to see at night, especially by older drivers.

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Under Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) regulations, communities have until 2015 to improve the nighttime visibility of roadside signs – such as stop, yield and railroad crossing signs. The issue is how well a sign redirects light from an automobile's headlights back toward the vehicle. Signs that fail to meet minimum standards must be replaced. Communities will be allowed to change the street name signs as they wear out.

The changes are called for in the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices, an 816-page (plus appendixes) behemoth that sets standards for traffic control devices – signs, signals and pavement markings.

"As drivers get older, we want to make sure they're able to read the signs," says FHWA administrator Victor Mendez. "Research shows that older drivers are better able to read signs when they're written in both capital and small letters. It's really driven by safety."

Despite that, the rule changes are not welcome in communities that have cut budgets to the quick.

"I think it's ridiculous," says Milwaukee Alderman Bob Donovan, whose city will spend about $1.4 million on new signs over the next four years. "Our street signs have worked perfectly well for 100 years or more. I think it's just the federal government run amok. If they don't have far more important things to deal with, they're not doing their job."

A gripe heard across the land: The government is providing no funds to make the change.

Iron Mountain, Mich., which has a population of 8,154 and a $6 million budget, will spend $30-$50 apiece replacing several hundred signs, says city manager Jordan Stanchina. "You're looking at all the other things you've got to cut, and now you've got to do this," he says.

Canyon, Texas, city manager Randy Criswell says the Texas Panhandle city of about 15,000 will replace 1,500-2,000 signs at a cost of about $100 apiece. "Do I think that's money that's spent as well as it could be? I sure don't," he says. "I've got parents that are getting elderly. They think this is silly."

Some cities such as Eau Claire, Wis., have already been gradually replacing signs as they wear out. Brian Amundson, the city's public works director, says replacing signs is "a good, worthwhile program. It really does make a difference." But he says, "It's just that in these difficult financial times, people don't like it shoved down their throat because they don't see the immediate value of it."

Thanks to larbearfl for sending me the article!

[corco]

Ah, the Big Old People lobby. Just as powerful as Big Oil, Big Tobacco, Big Pharmaceutical, and Big Guns.

I wonder if it ever occurred to anybody that if old people can't read existing signs they probably shouldn't be driving?

My grandmother, for instance, is in her 80s. Once she realized she couldn't read signs at night she decided by her own accord that she probably shouldn't drive at night because it suddenly became scary. This will slow down that process. Yes, it sucks and I feel bad for old people who shouldn't be driving anymore, and it's going to suck when I'm old and somebody yanks my license. That said, if we have to go making massive modifications conceding the fact that old people can't see which is pretty important while driving, then there's a problem.

[agentsteel53]

as I keep telling people - they're not making deer any more reflective ...

[Scott5114]

I'm 20, and I can't read many of the road signs around here at night. But that's mostly because ODOT cheaped out and has done everything in engineer-grade sheeting. In Kansas I can read everything like it's day. It really does help. Anything that prevents ODOT from being useless I am in favor of.

[agentsteel53]

I'm 20, and I can't read many of the road signs around here at night. But that's mostly because ODOT cheaped out and has done everything in engineer-grade sheeting. In Kansas I can read everything like it's day. It really does help. Anything that prevents ODOT from being useless I am in favor of.

the most egregious ODOT visibility violation I can think of is that left exit from I-40 eastbound to Elk City's business loop (old 66).  At night, in a rainstorm, I had to almost come to a complete dead stop in the left lane of an interstate highway just to parse exactly where the exit ramp was.  That was kinda horrific. 

[Scott5114]

Their striping leaves much to be desired even under ideal conditions. In a rainstorm, it's often impossible to see. Of course, this is in the cases where it hasn't all been worn off or paved over and they haven't bothered repainting it...

Thermoplastic? What's that?

[burgess87]

Just here in the Village of Lyndonville (NY), they have some old & fading Series B blade signs.  The lettering can't be more than 6" high.  I'd love for NYSDOT to come through and replace 'em, just like they've been doing in stretches near here.

[deathtopumpkins]

And the issue has struck here now too: http://www.wvec.com/news/You-Paid-For-It-Signs-109933359.html
Same headline, over and over across the nation.

[Scott5114]

The government mandate also states all street signs in all cities eventually must be replaced with signs in upper and lower case. They're easier to read the government says, and you will pay for it.

It's amazing how the media doesn't even bother to pretend to stay neutral these days.

[brownpelican]

The government mandate also states all street signs in all cities eventually must be replaced with signs in upper and lower case. They're easier to read the government says, and you will pay for it.

It's amazing how the media doesn't even bother to pretend to stay neutral these days.

I know right? What kills me is that whether the feds or local governments pay for it, it's still taxpayers' money. LOL

[mjb2002]

NYC's old street signs are very similar to the old street signs that Blackville, S.C. used until our county started using those awful street signs everywhere.

Even Clearview is an improvement compared to the signs we use in Barnwell County.

[roadfro]

And the issue has struck here now too: http://www.wvec.com/news/You-Paid-For-It-Signs-109933359.html
Same headline, over and over across the nation.

What gets me in this article is the following:

A recent mandate from Washington says by the year 2015 all stop signs and other warning signs will need to come down. They'll need to be replaced with signs that are more reflective so they can be seen better at night, especially by older drivers.

The retroreflectivity standards that they are referring to were established as part of Revision 2 to the 2003 MUTCD, which was adopted in December 2007. I wouldn't call three years ago a "recent" mandate.

[deathtopumpkins]

Well do you really think anyone in a local news outlet is going to care until there's a story like this on it?

[KillerTux]

The new mandate just hit my neighborhood but they are only replacing lost or damaged signs. Compare the North Riverside signs, the uppercase signs have been used for 15 years now in Anne Arundel County.
Old Style

New Style

[on_wisconsin]

I wonder if it would be a good idea to rename this thread to be less specific since the new rules affect the entire country.

[agentsteel53]

what looks to be expanded Series B mixed case is really not doing the job - the older all-uppercase is more legible.

[Ian]

I still don't see how mixed case is easier to see than uppercase on street blade signs.

[roadfro]

The mixed case provides a more readily-apparent "shape" of the text that can be somewhat discerned at a greater distance--all upper case results in one giant rectangle shape that isn't as recognizable at the same distance. When you factor in night driving and halo effects, the mixed case legend shape typically results in better cognition at a greater distance from the sign.