It's Tax Day in America. Do you...

[SectorZ]

Am I the only one with a refund for federal but had to pay for state? (The amount I owed to Massachusetts was $24, while my federal refund was three digits.)

As for which one gets accepted first: Massachusetts accepted exactly two hours after federal. Does two hours really make a difference?

I used to be in that boat, my Mass one I owed a little or the refund was so small it was less than $10 and I just donated thru one of the worthy charities you can pick.

[JayhawkCO]

Am I the only one with a refund for federal but had to pay for state?

I owed 2x to Federal and got x refund state. My normal MO.

[Bruce]

I use a free e-filing service because I expect things to work like in other competent developed nations. I refuse to pay a private company to file my taxes and lobby for more complicated self-filing.

No state income tax, though given Washington's financial situation it would be better to have than the patchwork of 10% sales taxes and other use taxes we have instead.

[Rothman]

I file early every year, normally get a small refund every year.  This year, I ended up owning in the amount I normally get for a refund on federal despite no changes to my tax situation and still getting my normal refund on state.  Very annoying.  I suspect payroll is reducing the amount they withhold on federal taxes, but when I tried to complain, they wanted me to contact a tax professional even though my situation is as simple as can be (one salary for income/standard deduction) and I can't see any way the problem could be on my end.  Am I missing something?

Tax rates and withholding are altered annually based on inflation. It's not your employer's responsibility to make sure you are withholding enough - they just do what the tables say they should do. If your tax situation is that easy to figure out, it wouldn't take long for you to figure out what your tax liability is going to be and prepare accordingly.

This is baloney given the diabolical "new" W4.  I itemize deductions and I have to do the math for the W4 form or it'll withhold the wrong amount, whether up or down.  Takes a long time to figure out how to do it right, since you can't trust what the W4 assumes for you.

[Rothman]

I use a free e-filing service because I expect things to work like in other competent developed nations. I refuse to pay a private company to file my taxes and lobby for more complicated self-filing.

No state income tax, though given Washington's financial situation it would be better to have than the patchwork of 10% sales taxes and other use taxes we have instead.

Free e-filing services accept payment in personal data.

[Bruce]

Free e-filing services accept payment in personal data.

My data has been leaked and stolen by a wide number of reputable corporations, because apparently data security has never been profitable enough for them to care.

At least this case gives me some decent benefits.

[NWI_Irish96]

Free e-filing services accept payment in personal data.

Kinda irrelevant now.

[SEWIGuy]

I file early every year, normally get a small refund every year.  This year, I ended up owning in the amount I normally get for a refund on federal despite no changes to my tax situation and still getting my normal refund on state.  Very annoying.  I suspect payroll is reducing the amount they withhold on federal taxes, but when I tried to complain, they wanted me to contact a tax professional even though my situation is as simple as can be (one salary for income/standard deduction) and I can't see any way the problem could be on my end.  Am I missing something?

Tax rates and withholding are altered annually based on inflation. It's not your employer's responsibility to make sure you are withholding enough - they just do what the tables say they should do. If your tax situation is that easy to figure out, it wouldn't take long for you to figure out what your tax liability is going to be and prepare accordingly.

This is baloney given the diabolical "new" W4.  I itemize deductions and I have to do the math for the W4 form or it'll withhold the wrong amount, whether up or down.  Takes a long time to figure out how to do it right, since you can't trust what the W4 assumes for you.

Or just look at your latest paystub, see what is being withheld, and do the math to figure out where you will end up at the end of the year. Then you can either change your withholdings or just stick anything extra in a savings account.

[Rothman]

I file early every year, normally get a small refund every year.  This year, I ended up owning in the amount I normally get for a refund on federal despite no changes to my tax situation and still getting my normal refund on state.  Very annoying.  I suspect payroll is reducing the amount they withhold on federal taxes, but when I tried to complain, they wanted me to contact a tax professional even though my situation is as simple as can be (one salary for income/standard deduction) and I can't see any way the problem could be on my end.  Am I missing something?

Tax rates and withholding are altered annually based on inflation. It's not your employer's responsibility to make sure you are withholding enough - they just do what the tables say they should do. If your tax situation is that easy to figure out, it wouldn't take long for you to figure out what your tax liability is going to be and prepare accordingly.

This is baloney given the diabolical "new" W4.  I itemize deductions and I have to do the math for the W4 form or it'll withhold the wrong amount, whether up or down.  Takes a long time to figure out how to do it right, since you can't trust what the W4 assumes for you.

Or just look at your latest paystub, see what is being withheld, and do the math to figure out where you will end up at the end of the year. Then you can either change your withholdings or just stick anything extra in a savings account.

That assumes you know how to calculate your actual tax rate with the current brackets.

[JayhawkCO]

I file early every year, normally get a small refund every year.  This year, I ended up owning in the amount I normally get for a refund on federal despite no changes to my tax situation and still getting my normal refund on state.  Very annoying.  I suspect payroll is reducing the amount they withhold on federal taxes, but when I tried to complain, they wanted me to contact a tax professional even though my situation is as simple as can be (one salary for income/standard deduction) and I can't see any way the problem could be on my end.  Am I missing something?

Tax rates and withholding are altered annually based on inflation. It's not your employer's responsibility to make sure you are withholding enough - they just do what the tables say they should do. If your tax situation is that easy to figure out, it wouldn't take long for you to figure out what your tax liability is going to be and prepare accordingly.

This is baloney given the diabolical "new" W4.  I itemize deductions and I have to do the math for the W4 form or it'll withhold the wrong amount, whether up or down.  Takes a long time to figure out how to do it right, since you can't trust what the W4 assumes for you.

Or just look at your latest paystub, see what is being withheld, and do the math to figure out where you will end up at the end of the year. Then you can either change your withholdings or just stick anything extra in a savings account.

That assumes you know how to calculate your actual tax rate with the current brackets.

That might change on a week to week basis, who knows.

[SEWIGuy]

I file early every year, normally get a small refund every year.  This year, I ended up owning in the amount I normally get for a refund on federal despite no changes to my tax situation and still getting my normal refund on state.  Very annoying.  I suspect payroll is reducing the amount they withhold on federal taxes, but when I tried to complain, they wanted me to contact a tax professional even though my situation is as simple as can be (one salary for income/standard deduction) and I can't see any way the problem could be on my end.  Am I missing something?

Tax rates and withholding are altered annually based on inflation. It's not your employer's responsibility to make sure you are withholding enough - they just do what the tables say they should do. If your tax situation is that easy to figure out, it wouldn't take long for you to figure out what your tax liability is going to be and prepare accordingly.

This is baloney given the diabolical "new" W4.  I itemize deductions and I have to do the math for the W4 form or it'll withhold the wrong amount, whether up or down.  Takes a long time to figure out how to do it right, since you can't trust what the W4 assumes for you.

Or just look at your latest paystub, see what is being withheld, and do the math to figure out where you will end up at the end of the year. Then you can either change your withholdings or just stick anything extra in a savings account.

That assumes you know how to calculate your actual tax rate with the current brackets.

There are simple calculators on the internet. None of this is hard.

[JayhawkCO]

I file early every year, normally get a small refund every year.  This year, I ended up owning in the amount I normally get for a refund on federal despite no changes to my tax situation and still getting my normal refund on state.  Very annoying.  I suspect payroll is reducing the amount they withhold on federal taxes, but when I tried to complain, they wanted me to contact a tax professional even though my situation is as simple as can be (one salary for income/standard deduction) and I can't see any way the problem could be on my end.  Am I missing something?

Tax rates and withholding are altered annually based on inflation. It's not your employer's responsibility to make sure you are withholding enough - they just do what the tables say they should do. If your tax situation is that easy to figure out, it wouldn't take long for you to figure out what your tax liability is going to be and prepare accordingly.

This is baloney given the diabolical "new" W4.  I itemize deductions and I have to do the math for the W4 form or it'll withhold the wrong amount, whether up or down.  Takes a long time to figure out how to do it right, since you can't trust what the W4 assumes for you.

Or just look at your latest paystub, see what is being withheld, and do the math to figure out where you will end up at the end of the year. Then you can either change your withholdings or just stick anything extra in a savings account.

That assumes you know how to calculate your actual tax rate with the current brackets.

There are simple calculators on the internet. None of this is hard.

Harder than you'd think when one spouse pays into Social Security and one pays into a state-sponsored pension fund.

[SEWIGuy]

I file early every year, normally get a small refund every year.  This year, I ended up owning in the amount I normally get for a refund on federal despite no changes to my tax situation and still getting my normal refund on state.  Very annoying.  I suspect payroll is reducing the amount they withhold on federal taxes, but when I tried to complain, they wanted me to contact a tax professional even though my situation is as simple as can be (one salary for income/standard deduction) and I can't see any way the problem could be on my end.  Am I missing something?

Tax rates and withholding are altered annually based on inflation. It's not your employer's responsibility to make sure you are withholding enough - they just do what the tables say they should do. If your tax situation is that easy to figure out, it wouldn't take long for you to figure out what your tax liability is going to be and prepare accordingly.

This is baloney given the diabolical "new" W4.  I itemize deductions and I have to do the math for the W4 form or it'll withhold the wrong amount, whether up or down.  Takes a long time to figure out how to do it right, since you can't trust what the W4 assumes for you.

Or just look at your latest paystub, see what is being withheld, and do the math to figure out where you will end up at the end of the year. Then you can either change your withholdings or just stick anything extra in a savings account.

That assumes you know how to calculate your actual tax rate with the current brackets.

There are simple calculators on the internet. None of this is hard.

Harder than you'd think when one spouse pays into Social Security and one pays into a state-sponsored pension fund.

I was talking specifically about vdeane - one income with standard deduction. Assuming it is a steady income, the calculation is pretty simple.

[LilianaUwU]

I don't pay taxes in America. That's because I'm in Canada, where I pay taxes instead, I promise.

[kernals12]

I don't pay taxes in America. That's because I'm in Canada, where I pay taxes instead, I promise.

Well get ready, your filing deadline is April 30.

[kernals12]

I use a free e-filing service because I expect things to work like in other competent developed nations. I refuse to pay a private company to file my taxes and lobby for more complicated self-filing.

No state income tax, though given Washington's financial situation it would be better to have than the patchwork of 10% sales taxes and other use taxes we have instead.

Switching to a return free filing system with our current tax code would create a massive administrative burden on employers and the IRS. Those other developed countries you speak of have one bracket that covers most taxpayers, they don't do joint filing, and they don't administer much of their welfare state through the tax code.

[GaryV]

I don't pay taxes in America. That's because I'm in Canada, where I pay taxes instead, I promise.

For now, anyway. Once we have Greenland, we can attack Canada from 3 directions at once!

[Rothman]

I file early every year, normally get a small refund every year.  This year, I ended up owning in the amount I normally get for a refund on federal despite no changes to my tax situation and still getting my normal refund on state.  Very annoying.  I suspect payroll is reducing the amount they withhold on federal taxes, but when I tried to complain, they wanted me to contact a tax professional even though my situation is as simple as can be (one salary for income/standard deduction) and I can't see any way the problem could be on my end.  Am I missing something?

Tax rates and withholding are altered annually based on inflation. It's not your employer's responsibility to make sure you are withholding enough - they just do what the tables say they should do. If your tax situation is that easy to figure out, it wouldn't take long for you to figure out what your tax liability is going to be and prepare accordingly.

This is baloney given the diabolical "new" W4.  I itemize deductions and I have to do the math for the W4 form or it'll withhold the wrong amount, whether up or down.  Takes a long time to figure out how to do it right, since you can't trust what the W4 assumes for you.

Or just look at your latest paystub, see what is being withheld, and do the math to figure out where you will end up at the end of the year. Then you can either change your withholdings or just stick anything extra in a savings account.

That assumes you know how to calculate your actual tax rate with the current brackets.

There are simple calculators on the internet. None of this is hard.

Harder than you'd think when one spouse pays into Social Security and one pays into a state-sponsored pension fund.

I was talking specifically about vdeane - one income with standard deduction. Assuming it is a steady income, the calculation is pretty simple.

Oh, fine.

[Scott5114]

I don't actually know. I sent all of my information in to the accountant that I've been using for the last 10 years back in February, and I haven't heard back from her. This happened last year, and it turned out she had filed for an extension on my behalf and finally got the return done in October.

I like her a lot and she's done a good job, but this will probably be the last year I use her.

Switching to a return free filing system with our current tax code would create a massive administrative burden on employers and the IRS.

As opposed to now, where the massive administrative burden is on the taxpayers.

I'd rather the burden be on someone who's getting paid to deal with it, myself.

For now, anyway. Once we have Greenland, we can attack Canada from 3 directions at once!

This isn't actually funny, you know.

[vdeane]

I file early every year, normally get a small refund every year.  This year, I ended up owning in the amount I normally get for a refund on federal despite no changes to my tax situation and still getting my normal refund on state.  Very annoying.  I suspect payroll is reducing the amount they withhold on federal taxes, but when I tried to complain, they wanted me to contact a tax professional even though my situation is as simple as can be (one salary for income/standard deduction) and I can't see any way the problem could be on my end.  Am I missing something?

Tax rates and withholding are altered annually based on inflation. It's not your employer's responsibility to make sure you are withholding enough - they just do what the tables say they should do. If your tax situation is that easy to figure out, it wouldn't take long for you to figure out what your tax liability is going to be and prepare accordingly.

Well, clearly the tables are wrong or they made a mistake somewhere.  I checked my W4 and everything is correct as always: single, no other income, no dependents, additional $5/paycheck as I set up years ago.  Since my overall situation is simple and doesn't change except for the exact numbers, shouldn't the amount withheld be roughly the same relatively speaking?  And why would it only affect federal, but not state?  New York's tax code is very close to the federal tax code, to the point where the first part of NYS taxes is replicating your federal return (after which you do NYS additions and subtractions, of which I only have my pension contribution, as always).

Unfortunately, figuring out exactly how much I'll owe is easier said than done.  Not only do I budget off of net income numbers and don't have the greatest idea what percentage of my paycheck should be withheld for taxes, but NYS fiscal year is April-March, not January-December like the tax year, so my income tends to bump up sometime in April as my annual raise and step increase happen at that time.  Making things weirder, the IRS calculator based on paycheck numbers claims I'm on track for a refund this year... so why did I owe last year when my withholding amount went down slightly on January 1?  Something's rotten about this whole situation, but I can't figure out what, especially since everybody is just having a knee-jerk reaction to assume that I'm doing something wrong and need to hire a tax preparer, even though my 2024 return is identical to my 2023 return except for using the numbers from my 2024 W2 and tax tables (as one would expect if neither my tax situation nor the 1040 have changed) except for owing instead of getting a refund (and strangely, owing around the same amount I normally get as a refund).

I know the US tax code is specifically designed to enrich the tax prep parasites "industry", but this is beyond the pale even by US standards.

[ilpt4u]

I owe almost every year, fed and state. Part of that is I probably should increase my withholdings but screw that. I do make the quartely estimated payments to the IRS to cover my under-witholdings. I prefer to have the money in my own hand first before the Feds get all of theirs

[jeffandnicole]

I file early every year, normally get a small refund every year.  This year, I ended up owning in the amount I normally get for a refund on federal despite no changes to my tax situation and still getting my normal refund on state.  Very annoying.  I suspect payroll is reducing the amount they withhold on federal taxes, but when I tried to complain, they wanted me to contact a tax professional even though my situation is as simple as can be (one salary for income/standard deduction) and I can't see any way the problem could be on my end.  Am I missing something?

Tax rates and withholding are altered annually based on inflation. It's not your employer's responsibility to make sure you are withholding enough - they just do what the tables say they should do. If your tax situation is that easy to figure out, it wouldn't take long for you to figure out what your tax liability is going to be and prepare accordingly.

Well, clearly the tables are wrong or they made a mistake somewhere.  I checked my W4 and everything is correct as always: single, no other income, no dependents, additional $5/paycheck as I set up years ago.  Since my overall situation is simple and doesn't change except for the exact numbers, shouldn't the amount withheld be roughly the same relatively speaking?  And why would it only affect federal, but not state?  New York's tax code is very close to the federal tax code, to the point where the first part of NYS taxes is replicating your federal return (after which you do NYS additions and subtractions, of which I only have my pension contribution, as always).

Unfortunately, figuring out exactly how much I'll owe is easier said than done.  Not only do I budget off of net income numbers and don't have the greatest idea what percentage of my paycheck should be withheld for taxes, but NYS fiscal year is April-March, not January-December like the tax year, so my income tends to bump up sometime in April as my annual raise and step increase happen at that time.  Making things weirder, the IRS calculator based on paycheck numbers claims I'm on track for a refund this year... so why did I owe last year when my withholding amount went down slightly on January 1?  Something's rotten about this whole situation, but I can't figure out what, especially since everybody is just having a knee-jerk reaction to assume that I'm doing something wrong and need to hire a tax preparer, even though my 2024 return is identical to my 2023 return except for using the numbers from my 2024 W2 and tax tables (as one would expect if neither my tax situation nor the 1040 have changed) except for owing instead of getting a refund (and strangely, owing around the same amount I normally get as a refund).

I know the US tax code is specifically designed to enrich the tax prep parasites "industry", but this is beyond the pale even by US standards.

Just a few ideas:  Maybe your salary creep up into a higher marginal tax bracket.  Or, since you said you get annual increases in April, maybe that has something to do with it.  Or other withholdings from your paycheck (we have a 457B (Deferred Comp) that could affect current tax liability.

[jeffandnicole]

Am I the only one with a refund for federal but had to pay for state? (The amount I owed to Massachusetts was $24, while my federal refund was three digits.)

I had this issue for several years.  Ultimately, I think tax brackets changed in the state so now it flips the other way.

I filed in February. Being unemployed for 5 months and then taking a new job with lower pay means a big refund. I also needed to file 2 state returns because I moved.

A big refund is not desirable. It's an interest free loan to the government

When I worked in Delaware, I paid their state income tax, then took the credit on my NJ taxes where I lived.  Since DE has a higher income tax in exchange for no sales tax, I generally lost money since the income tax I paid to DE was higher than what I would've paid to NJ.  But, I also made a significant number of purchases tax-free in DE, so it all evened out.

[wanderer2575]

Tax rates and withholding are altered annually based on inflation.

And also on the change in the standard deduction, which is built into the withholding tables.

New York's tax code is very close to the federal tax code, to the point where the first part of NYS taxes is replicating your federal return (after which you do NYS additions and subtractions, of which I only have my pension contribution, as always).

The part about determining your taxable income, yes.  The part about determining your tax liability, no.


I kind of miss driving to a "main" post office branch just before midnight on April 15th to watch the vehicle parades of people dropping off their tax returns.

[kernals12]

I file early every year, normally get a small refund every year.  This year, I ended up owning in the amount I normally get for a refund on federal despite no changes to my tax situation and still getting my normal refund on state.  Very annoying.  I suspect payroll is reducing the amount they withhold on federal taxes, but when I tried to complain, they wanted me to contact a tax professional even though my situation is as simple as can be (one salary for income/standard deduction) and I can't see any way the problem could be on my end.  Am I missing something?

Tax rates and withholding are altered annually based on inflation. It's not your employer's responsibility to make sure you are withholding enough - they just do what the tables say they should do. If your tax situation is that easy to figure out, it wouldn't take long for you to figure out what your tax liability is going to be and prepare accordingly.

Well, clearly the tables are wrong or they made a mistake somewhere.  I checked my W4 and everything is correct as always: single, no other income, no dependents, additional $5/paycheck as I set up years ago.  Since my overall situation is simple and doesn't change except for the exact numbers, shouldn't the amount withheld be roughly the same relatively speaking?  And why would it only affect federal, but not state?  New York's tax code is very close to the federal tax code, to the point where the first part of NYS taxes is replicating your federal return (after which you do NYS additions and subtractions, of which I only have my pension contribution, as always).

Unfortunately, figuring out exactly how much I'll owe is easier said than done.  Not only do I budget off of net income numbers and don't have the greatest idea what percentage of my paycheck should be withheld for taxes, but NYS fiscal year is April-March, not January-December like the tax year, so my income tends to bump up sometime in April as my annual raise and step increase happen at that time.  Making things weirder, the IRS calculator based on paycheck numbers claims I'm on track for a refund this year... so why did I owe last year when my withholding amount went down slightly on January 1?  Something's rotten about this whole situation, but I can't figure out what, especially since everybody is just having a knee-jerk reaction to assume that I'm doing something wrong and need to hire a tax preparer, even though my 2024 return is identical to my 2023 return except for using the numbers from my 2024 W2 and tax tables (as one would expect if neither my tax situation nor the 1040 have changed) except for owing instead of getting a refund (and strangely, owing around the same amount I normally get as a refund).

I know the US tax code is specifically designed to enrich the tax prep parasites "industry", but this is beyond the pale even by US standards.

It's not nearly so simple. All sorts of special interest groups lobby for their particular tax breaks and it all adds up to our monstrously complex system.