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Author Topic: Delaware  (Read 282599 times)

Roadsguy

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Re: Delaware
« Reply #950 on: October 16, 2018, 11:14:01 PM »

If traffic "doubles on the bridge", it's not going to be because of the spur road.  It'll be because of development in and around Middletown.  And most of that development would still be using existing 301 to get to the bridge.  It'd be backtracking for most of Middletown to access the spur via the future DE 299 interchange.
Well what if De-1 is backed up. Because traffic is already heavy on De-1 with out without 301 merging on to it. & people take the spur road to avoid this traffic jam.
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Considering the scenes I'd see on DE-896 South when I was going Dover to Newark during rush hour, I don't think people would really consider DE-896 to be an acceptable alternative.  I mean it is an alternative, but there are still tons of lights between I-95 and the Summit Bridge they'd have to deal with (though maybe the grade separation at US-40 would be helpful).
That is true. That grade Seperation @40 might make all the difference. But I just wonder if the speed limit will remain the same or a change will be made. & with all the housing developments being built. I can asure we can expect big traffic
Well the statutory maximum speed limit on a divided highway is 55, so it can only go down, except on the section north of US-40 where it's 50, I believe.

Except for section B, where it states that Delaware can basically make up whatever speed they want on any road they want, which specifically states it can go up or down.  That is how 65 mph is permitted on 95 and 495, and 60 mph on the Puncheon Run Connector, even though the statute states 55 mph on divided roadways.

Is the Puncheon Run Connector not considered a freeway?

This discussion should probably be moved to the project's dedicated thread.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2018, 11:17:33 PM by Roadsguy »
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Tonytone

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Re: Delaware
« Reply #951 on: October 16, 2018, 11:17:02 PM »

If traffic "doubles on the bridge", it's not going to be because of the spur road.  It'll be because of development in and around Middletown.  And most of that development would still be using existing 301 to get to the bridge.  It'd be backtracking for most of Middletown to access the spur via the future DE 299 interchange.
Well what if De-1 is backed up. Because traffic is already heavy on De-1 with out without 301 merging on to it. & people take the spur road to avoid this traffic jam.
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Considering the scenes I'd see on DE-896 South when I was going Dover to Newark during rush hour, I don't think people would really consider DE-896 to be an acceptable alternative.  I mean it is an alternative, but there are still tons of lights between I-95 and the Summit Bridge they'd have to deal with (though maybe the grade separation at US-40 would be helpful).
That is true. That grade Seperation @40 might make all the difference. But I just wonder if the speed limit will remain the same or a change will be made. & with all the housing developments being built. I can asure we can expect big traffic
Well the statutory maximum speed limit on a divided highway is 55, so it can only go down, except on the section north of US-40 where it's 50, I believe.

Except for section B, where it states that Delaware can basically make up whatever speed they want on any road they want, which specifically states it can go up or down.  That is how 65 mph is permitted on 95 and 495, and 60 mph on the Puncheon Run Connector, even though the statute states 55 mph on divided roadways.
Do you think 495 speed limit would ever be raised again? 70? 75?


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ipeters61

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Re: Delaware
« Reply #952 on: October 17, 2018, 11:17:39 AM »

If traffic "doubles on the bridge", it's not going to be because of the spur road.  It'll be because of development in and around Middletown.  And most of that development would still be using existing 301 to get to the bridge.  It'd be backtracking for most of Middletown to access the spur via the future DE 299 interchange.
Well what if De-1 is backed up. Because traffic is already heavy on De-1 with out without 301 merging on to it. & people take the spur road to avoid this traffic jam.
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Considering the scenes I'd see on DE-896 South when I was going Dover to Newark during rush hour, I don't think people would really consider DE-896 to be an acceptable alternative.  I mean it is an alternative, but there are still tons of lights between I-95 and the Summit Bridge they'd have to deal with (though maybe the grade separation at US-40 would be helpful).
That is true. That grade Seperation @40 might make all the difference. But I just wonder if the speed limit will remain the same or a change will be made. & with all the housing developments being built. I can asure we can expect big traffic
Well the statutory maximum speed limit on a divided highway is 55, so it can only go down, except on the section north of US-40 where it's 50, I believe.

Except for section B, where it states that Delaware can basically make up whatever speed they want on any road they want, which specifically states it can go up or down.  That is how 65 mph is permitted on 95 and 495, and 60 mph on the Puncheon Run Connector, even though the statute states 55 mph on divided roadways.
Do you think 495 speed limit would ever be raised again? 70? 75?


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If Route 1, with its long stretches of flat rural area between Dover and Middletown, is going to remain 65, then 495, being in a fairly urban area, probably would remain 65.
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Re: Delaware
« Reply #953 on: October 17, 2018, 12:50:41 PM »

If traffic "doubles on the bridge", it's not going to be because of the spur road.  It'll be because of development in and around Middletown.  And most of that development would still be using existing 301 to get to the bridge.  It'd be backtracking for most of Middletown to access the spur via the future DE 299 interchange.
Well what if De-1 is backed up. Because traffic is already heavy on De-1 with out without 301 merging on to it. & people take the spur road to avoid this traffic jam.
iPhone
Considering the scenes I'd see on DE-896 South when I was going Dover to Newark during rush hour, I don't think people would really consider DE-896 to be an acceptable alternative.  I mean it is an alternative, but there are still tons of lights between I-95 and the Summit Bridge they'd have to deal with (though maybe the grade separation at US-40 would be helpful).
That is true. That grade Seperation @40 might make all the difference. But I just wonder if the speed limit will remain the same or a change will be made. & with all the housing developments being built. I can asure we can expect big traffic
Well the statutory maximum speed limit on a divided highway is 55, so it can only go down, except on the section north of US-40 where it's 50, I believe.

Except for section B, where it states that Delaware can basically make up whatever speed they want on any road they want, which specifically states it can go up or down.  That is how 65 mph is permitted on 95 and 495, and 60 mph on the Puncheon Run Connector, even though the statute states 55 mph on divided roadways.
Do you think 495 speed limit would ever be raised again? 70? 75?


iPhone
If Route 1, with its long stretches of flat rural area between Dover and Middletown, is going to remain 65, then 495, being in a fairly urban area, probably would remain 65.

Route 1 could probably tolerate 70 MPH once they put in the cable barriers.
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Tonytone

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Delaware
« Reply #954 on: October 17, 2018, 01:13:42 PM »

If traffic "doubles on the bridge", it's not going to be because of the spur road.  It'll be because of development in and around Middletown.  And most of that development would still be using existing 301 to get to the bridge.  It'd be backtracking for most of Middletown to access the spur via the future DE 299 interchange.
Well what if De-1 is backed up. Because traffic is already heavy on De-1 with out without 301 merging on to it. & people take the spur road to avoid this traffic jam.
iPhone
Considering the scenes I'd see on DE-896 South when I was going Dover to Newark during rush hour, I don't think people would really consider DE-896 to be an acceptable alternative.  I mean it is an alternative, but there are still tons of lights between I-95 and the Summit Bridge they'd have to deal with (though maybe the grade separation at US-40 would be helpful).
That is true. That grade Seperation @40 might make all the difference. But I just wonder if the speed limit will remain the same or a change will be made. & with all the housing developments being built. I can asure we can expect big traffic
Well the statutory maximum speed limit on a divided highway is 55, so it can only go down, except on the section north of US-40 where it's 50, I believe.

Except for section B, where it states that Delaware can basically make up whatever speed they want on any road they want, which specifically states it can go up or down.  That is how 65 mph is permitted on 95 and 495, and 60 mph on the Puncheon Run Connector, even though the statute states 55 mph on divided roadways.
Do you think 495 speed limit would ever be raised again? 70? 75?


iPhone
If Route 1, with its long stretches of flat rural area between Dover and Middletown, is going to remain 65, then 495, being in a fairly urban area, probably would remain 65.
I assume our highways will never be signed to true speed. Since people will go over that. But, arenít there studies that show a high speed limit actually causes people to drive within a safe speed?

Hold on Isnít I-70 in Pa signed 70Mph with *60Mph caution signs on the curves* couldnít all the curvy highways have limits raised if they just sign the curves?


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« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 12:11:35 AM by Tonytone »
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Roadsguy

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Re: Delaware
« Reply #955 on: October 18, 2018, 10:31:57 AM »

If traffic "doubles on the bridge", it's not going to be because of the spur road.  It'll be because of development in and around Middletown.  And most of that development would still be using existing 301 to get to the bridge.  It'd be backtracking for most of Middletown to access the spur via the future DE 299 interchange.
Well what if De-1 is backed up. Because traffic is already heavy on De-1 with out without 301 merging on to it. & people take the spur road to avoid this traffic jam.
Considering the scenes I'd see on DE-896 South when I was going Dover to Newark during rush hour, I don't think people would really consider DE-896 to be an acceptable alternative.  I mean it is an alternative, but there are still tons of lights between I-95 and the Summit Bridge they'd have to deal with (though maybe the grade separation at US-40 would be helpful).
That is true. That grade Seperation @40 might make all the difference. But I just wonder if the speed limit will remain the same or a change will be made. & with all the housing developments being built. I can asure we can expect big traffic
Well the statutory maximum speed limit on a divided highway is 55, so it can only go down, except on the section north of US-40 where it's 50, I believe.

Except for section B, where it states that Delaware can basically make up whatever speed they want on any road they want, which specifically states it can go up or down.  That is how 65 mph is permitted on 95 and 495, and 60 mph on the Puncheon Run Connector, even though the statute states 55 mph on divided roadways.
Do you think 495 speed limit would ever be raised again? 70? 75?
If Route 1, with its long stretches of flat rural area between Dover and Middletown, is going to remain 65, then 495, being in a fairly urban area, probably would remain 65.
I assume our highways will never be signed to true speed. Since people will go over that. But, arenít there studies that show a high speed limit actually causes people to drive within a safe speed?

Hold on Isnít I-70 in Pa signed 70Mph with *60Mph caution signs on the curves* couldnít all the curvy highways have limits raised if they just sign the curves?

Do you mean the PA Turnpike? The only parts of I-70 in PA that aren't 55 mph are from the WV state line to Washington and the part on the Turnpike from New Stanton to Breezewood. From Washington to New Stanton and to a lesser extent from Breezewood down to Maryland are too substandard for 65, let alone 70.

There are a lot of curves with advisory speeds on the 70 mph Turnpike, at least on the sections I ever drive. They can usually be safely taken at 80 mph like the rest of the road.
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Tonytone

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Re: Delaware
« Reply #956 on: October 18, 2018, 12:16:33 PM »

If traffic "doubles on the bridge", it's not going to be because of the spur road.  It'll be because of development in and around Middletown.  And most of that development would still be using existing 301 to get to the bridge.  It'd be backtracking for most of Middletown to access the spur via the future DE 299 interchange.
Well what if De-1 is backed up. Because traffic is already heavy on De-1 with out without 301 merging on to it. & people take the spur road to avoid this traffic jam.
Considering the scenes I'd see on DE-896 South when I was going Dover to Newark during rush hour, I don't think people would really consider DE-896 to be an acceptable alternative.  I mean it is an alternative, but there are still tons of lights between I-95 and the Summit Bridge they'd have to deal with (though maybe the grade separation at US-40 would be helpful).
That is true. That grade Seperation @40 might make all the difference. But I just wonder if the speed limit will remain the same or a change will be made. & with all the housing developments being built. I can asure we can expect big traffic
Well the statutory maximum speed limit on a divided highway is 55, so it can only go down, except on the section north of US-40 where it's 50, I believe.

Except for section B, where it states that Delaware can basically make up whatever speed they want on any road they want, which specifically states it can go up or down.  That is how 65 mph is permitted on 95 and 495, and 60 mph on the Puncheon Run Connector, even though the statute states 55 mph on divided roadways.
Do you think 495 speed limit would ever be raised again? 70? 75?
If Route 1, with its long stretches of flat rural area between Dover and Middletown, is going to remain 65, then 495, being in a fairly urban area, probably would remain 65.
I assume our highways will never be signed to true speed. Since people will go over that. But, arenít there studies that show a high speed limit actually causes people to drive within a safe speed?

Hold on Isnít I-70 in Pa signed 70Mph with *60Mph caution signs on the curves* couldnít all the curvy highways have limits raised if they just sign the curves?

Do you mean the PA Turnpike? The only parts of I-70 in PA that aren't 55 mph are from the WV state line to Washington and the part on the Turnpike from New Stanton to Breezewood. From Washington to New Stanton and to a lesser extent from Breezewood down to Maryland are too substandard for 65, let alone 70.

There are a lot of curves with advisory speeds on the 70 mph Turnpike, at least on the sections I ever drive. They can usually be safely taken at 80 mph like the rest of the road.
Exactly. & it goes through  mountains, when I first drove that road. That was the first time I seen trucks take a curve faster then me. If this speed is allowed on a highway like this. Why hasnt speed been bumped up on all the Highways. Clearly all people need is advisory curve signage.


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Tonytone

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Delaware
« Reply #957 on: October 21, 2018, 12:50:40 PM »




Uh this pole gets struck by lighting much ? This is on limestone road. Right by the Valero. Anyone know why they placed this many ground wires?


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« Last Edit: October 21, 2018, 01:38:45 PM by Tonytone »
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davewiecking

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Re: Delaware
« Reply #958 on: October 21, 2018, 01:36:59 PM »

Looks like those are guy wires, right? Iíve found a Limestone Drive in a residential area near Dover, but it doesnít appear to have a Valero nearby. Perhaps a better photo or an understandable description of the location would enable others to provide a better answer to your question, right?
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Tonytone

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Delaware
« Reply #959 on: October 21, 2018, 01:37:54 PM »

Looks like those are guy wires, right? Iíve found a Limestone Drive in a residential area near Dover, but it doesnít appear to have a Valero nearby. Perhaps a better photo or an understandable description of the location would enable others to provide a better answer to your question, right?
Limestone Road New Castle De.
Sorry, I just realized that I misspelled road. Its known as route 7.


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« Last Edit: October 21, 2018, 01:56:50 PM by Tonytone »
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davewiecking

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Re: Delaware
« Reply #960 on: October 21, 2018, 01:49:01 PM »

My Google Maps numbers Limestone Rd as DE-7. Is there a cross street nearby that's DE-71?
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Re: Delaware
« Reply #961 on: October 21, 2018, 09:28:13 PM »

Those are for stability, not lightning protection.



Without them, the tension in the lines following SR 7 would bend the pole away from the camera.
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Tonytone

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Re: Delaware
« Reply #962 on: October 21, 2018, 09:30:40 PM »

Those are for stability, not lightning protection.



Without them, the tension in the lines following SR 7 would bend the pole away from the camera.
So the weight of the lines & gravity is what causes poles to bend in certain directions. Why not just put a metal pole up. It would reduce the need for all those lines to the ground.


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Re: Delaware
« Reply #963 on: October 21, 2018, 10:15:57 PM »

Because a metal pole would still be dealing with the forces that the power lines are causing in the general direction away from the camera.  These guy wires add stability to the power pole by helping to negate those forces.  I also think we all can agree that a wooden pole (even with the guy wires) would be much less expensive than a metal pole.
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Tonytone

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Re: Delaware
« Reply #964 on: October 21, 2018, 10:24:38 PM »

Because a metal pole would still be dealing with the forces that the power lines are causing in the general direction away from the camera.  These guy wires add stability to the power pole by helping to negate those forces.  I also think we all can agree that a wooden pole (even with the guy wires) would be much less expensive than a metal pole.
I guess thats a better choice. Id just think that a metal pole. & 1 guy wire would be more efficient. All those guy wires there. If a car hits them a good speed it will tear into shreds.


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Alps

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Re: Delaware
« Reply #965 on: October 21, 2018, 10:50:13 PM »

I have never seen more than one guy wire for a pole.  What is going on that this needs so many?

Tonytone

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Delaware
« Reply #966 on: October 21, 2018, 10:53:03 PM »

I have never seen more than one guy wire for a pole.  What is going on that this needs so many?
Lmao, same thing I said. But apparently the Weight of the lines & everything will bend the pole like into a letter r.


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Re: Delaware
« Reply #967 on: October 22, 2018, 06:48:01 AM »

I have never seen more than one guy wire for a pole.

They were a common sight at the Delaware beaches when I was growing up in the '60s and '70s.

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Alps

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Re: Delaware
« Reply #968 on: October 22, 2018, 07:26:46 AM »

I have never seen more than one guy wire for a pole.  What is going on that this needs so many?
Lmao, same thing I said. But apparently the Weight of the lines & everything will bend the pole like into a letter r.
That isn't really how that works though. The lines all introduce a certain tension to the pole. You do the math and attach the guy wire appropriately to provide an opposite tension. With the number of attachment points, maybe you need two. Max. They attached a guy wire opposite every single wire attachment! Whoever did that is not a utility engineer.

Tonytone

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Re: Delaware
« Reply #969 on: October 22, 2018, 09:50:01 AM »

I have never seen more than one guy wire for a pole.  What is going on that this needs so many?
Lmao, same thing I said. But apparently the Weight of the lines & everything will bend the pole like into a letter r.
That isn't really how that works though. The lines all introduce a certain tension to the pole. You do the math and attach the guy wire appropriately to provide an opposite tension. With the number of attachment points, maybe you need two. Max. They attached a guy wire opposite every single wire attachment! Whoever did that is not a utility engineer.
I said the same thing. I knew I wasnít crazy!!!


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jeffandnicole

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Re: Delaware
« Reply #970 on: October 22, 2018, 10:17:33 AM »

Maybe Delmarva Power just sucks at pole installation. Maybe the engineer they use is overly cautious.  Or maybe they just use way too many lines and using too thin of poles.  The number of poles with 2 guy wires is incredibly high...even on in-line poles where the lines simply go -- , not in a T or + junction at the pole.  Here's another example at Rt. 7 and Main Street in Stanton, near the 7/4 T-junction, with what appears to be 4 guy wires:  https://goo.gl/maps/Hqymx2Ba6cs  .  Do a GSV drive-around...near some major intersections, especially older intersections, it almost looks India-like with all the wires and lines hung on the poles.  Thru the years this stuff should've been cleaned up, which you can check out via older GSV images; it almost appears it's getting worse instead.
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Re: Delaware
« Reply #971 on: October 22, 2018, 01:16:07 PM »

Older poles were often sourced from cedar or tamarac and were very strong. It's often why they last 50+ years with no maintenance. Southern pine poles (far cheaper and more often used) are weaker and are more suspectable to bending - hence the proliferation of guy wires.

Interestingly enough, many rural counties in southern Ohio are using thin metal poles that resemble the size and shape of a wood pole. I suppose the costs have come down to the point that a metal pole can be used over a much longer lifespan than a southern pine pole. And I've seen some metal poles hooked with guy wires - so I'm not sure that they are all resting on a solid cement base.
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Tonytone

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Re: Delaware
« Reply #972 on: October 22, 2018, 08:50:30 PM »

Does anyone know when, the Big interchange project for DE-1/273 is slated to begin?


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Tonytone

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Re: Delaware
« Reply #973 on: October 22, 2018, 09:27:53 PM »

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4583265,-75.7316491,3514a,35y,38.8t/data=!3m1!1e3

Looks like the spur road is actually being worked on, from this Google maps image.
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Roadsguy

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Re: Delaware
« Reply #974 on: October 22, 2018, 11:56:57 PM »

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4583265,-75.7316491,3514a,35y,38.8t/data=!3m1!1e3

Looks like the spur road is actually being worked on, from this Google maps image.

The only work they've done on it is grading. I'd be surprised if any of it ends up paved. They didn't even include stubs.

Also, there's a dedicated thread for the 301 project.
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