School Zones...

[NE2]

A sidewalk is basically a road just for walking on.

Actually a sidewalk is usually PART of a road.

[Alps]

A sidewalk is basically a road just for walking on.

Actually a sidewalk is usually PART of a road.

No, usually it's within the same right of way but separated by a buffer.

[Scott5114]

You can also have sidewalks in a park, as part of a walking trail, between buildings on a college campus, etc.

[NE2]

A sidewalk is basically a road just for walking on.

Actually a sidewalk is usually PART of a road.

No, usually it's within the same right of way but separated by a buffer.

Fine, it's part of the street. Per the UVC a "roadway" doesn't include sidewalks or shoulders.

[deathtopumpkins]

Seriously, I've always thought school zones are the most pointless thing.

I don't know if they're pointless, but I can't think of any instance where a School Zone caused me to be late or inconvenienced me in even the slightest way. I am not exactly sure what to think about someone who believes they are being oppressed by School Zones. First World Problems?

I never said I was being "oppressed" by them. I said they're pointless. If a high school student is stupid enough to step out in front of a car, well, good riddance. No reason I should have to slow down passing by.
Also, it's not like one is going to slow you down so much that it's going to make you late, it's just that the act of slowing down arbitrarily is a waste of time and effort, especially when the school zone only exists as a revenue stream. The ones that bother me are along a rural highway near a high school. What possible benefit does requiring highway traffic to slow down from 55 to 45 if there is a teenager nearby provide?

[vdeane]

Plus there are those people who will be content to cruise along at the speed limit normally but will slam on the brakes and drive 10mph under the limit as soon as they see a lower one coming.

[NE2]

What possible benefit does requiring highway traffic to slow down from 55 to 45 if there is a teenager nearby provide?

This has been explained numerous times. You're supposed to stop if a pedestrian is waiting to cross. Slowing to 45 means you won't have to brake as much if one is there.

[Brandon]

What possible benefit does requiring highway traffic to slow down from 55 to 45 if there is a teenager nearby provide?

This has been explained numerous times. You're supposed to stop if a pedestrian is waiting to cross. Slowing to 45 means you won't have to brake as much if one is there.

Waiting?  Bull.  It is when the pedestrian is IN the crosswalk, not ON the curb.  ON the curb could mean he's waiting for a bus as well.

[kphoger]

What possible benefit does requiring highway traffic to slow down from 55 to 45 if there is a teenager nearby provide?

This has been explained numerous times. You're supposed to stop if a pedestrian is waiting to cross. Slowing to 45 means you won't have to brake as much if one is there.

Waiting?  Bull.  It is when the pedestrian is IN the crosswalk, not ON the curb.  ON the curb could mean he's waiting for a bus as well.

Correct.  The law only requires that a driver yield to a person who has actually started to cross the street or is just about to take that first step.  In that regard I've never seen any distinction made in law between a school crosswalk and any other.

I'm far bolder than most people when it comes to stepping out into traffic, as long as I'm in a crosswalk, but that doesn't mean I stop and wait for the chicken-hearted to make up their minds as to whether or not they're going to cross the street.  Step out, and I'll stop; stand there like a rabbit in the headlights, and I'll do little more than hover my foot over the brake–if that.

[NE2]

What possible benefit does requiring highway traffic to slow down from 55 to 45 if there is a teenager nearby provide?

This has been explained numerous times. You're supposed to stop if a pedestrian is waiting to cross. Slowing to 45 means you won't have to brake as much if one is there.

Waiting?  Bull.  It is when the pedestrian is IN the crosswalk, not ON the curb.  ON the curb could mean he's waiting for a bus as well.

So you put your foot out into the crosswalk, and if the car doesn't stop you pull it in and reflect on the injustice of the world.

[kphoger]

What possible benefit does requiring highway traffic to slow down from 55 to 45 if there is a teenager nearby provide?

This has been explained numerous times. You're supposed to stop if a pedestrian is waiting to cross. Slowing to 45 means you won't have to brake as much if one is there.

Waiting?  Bull.  It is when the pedestrian is IN the crosswalk, not ON the curb.  ON the curb could mean he's waiting for a bus as well.

So you put your foot out into the crosswalk, and if the car doesn't stop you pull it in and reflect on the injustice of the world.

To be honest, I've been known to knock the fender of the car with my knuckles as it passes by.  Depending on the car, that can sound loud inside.  Once, I had a driver turn around, stop, and ask if I was OK.

[vdeane]

What possible benefit does requiring highway traffic to slow down from 55 to 45 if there is a teenager nearby provide?

This has been explained numerous times. You're supposed to stop if a pedestrian is waiting to cross. Slowing to 45 means you won't have to brake as much if one is there.

Waiting?  Bull.  It is when the pedestrian is IN the crosswalk, not ON the curb.  ON the curb could mean he's waiting for a bus as well.

So you put your foot out into the crosswalk, and if the car doesn't stop you pull it in and reflect on the injustice of the world.

No, you should wait your turn rather than expect people to stop just because urbanists like to put pedestrians in a privileged position simply because they aren't motorists.  I always yield unless someone stops (and in that case I cross thinking about how much less efficient the system is as a result; they decided to wait a minute for me to cross, whereas I would only needed to have waited a second for them to pass).  If there's a signal, I ALWAYS push the button and wait for walk, even if there's no traffic.  And if there isn't, I wait for traffic to clear before crossing.  Why should a bunch of drivers have to wait a minute on me when I would only have to wait a second on them?  It makes no sense.

Btw, there are plenty of school zones that don't have uncontrolled crosswalks in them, including all of the ones in the school district where I grew up.

[NE2]

What K. Phoger said.

[agentsteel53]

the laws as placed on regulatory signs state "stop for pedestrians in crosswalk".  not "next to crosswalk", "thinking about crossing", "doing a crossword puzzle at the cafe down the street", etc.

[kphoger]

What possible benefit does requiring highway traffic to slow down from 55 to 45 if there is a teenager nearby provide?

This has been explained numerous times. You're supposed to stop if a pedestrian is waiting to cross. Slowing to 45 means you won't have to brake as much if one is there.

Waiting?  Bull.  It is when the pedestrian is IN the crosswalk, not ON the curb.  ON the curb could mean he's waiting for a bus as well.

So you put your foot out into the crosswalk, and if the car doesn't stop you pull it in and reflect on the injustice of the world.

No, you should wait your turn rather than expect people to stop just because urbanists like to put pedestrians in a privileged position simply because they aren't motorists.  I always yield unless someone stops (and in that case I cross thinking about how much less efficient the system is as a result; they decided to wait a minute for me to cross, whereas I would only needed to have waited a second for them to pass).  If there's a signal, I ALWAYS push the button and wait for walk, even if there's no traffic.  And if there isn't, I wait for traffic to clear before crossing.  Why should a bunch of drivers have to wait a minute on me when I would only have to wait a second on them?  It makes no sense.

Btw, there are plenty of school zones that don't have uncontrolled crosswalks in them, including all of the ones in the school district where I grew up.

I find the opposite to be true on many roads:  for me to wait for an actual gap in traffic wide enough to walk through, I would be waiting for at least a couple of minutes.  OTOH, waiting for just a thinning-out of traffic requires only one minute tops, usually much less, and typically doesn't require any driver to come to a full stop; I end up costing maybe four vehicles about five seconds of their drive but saved myself perhaps 1.5 minutes of mine.

When I lived in the Chicago suburbs, I lived right on Roosevelt Road for a little less than a year, then one block away from Roosevelt Road for a few years a while later.  I also didn't own a car for most of my time there.  I quickly learned that, by waiting for traffic to completely clear before crossing the road, I would be stuck on the curb forever, especially at peak traffic times.  I find the same thing to be true here in Wichita when I need to cross Lincoln Street near my house.  Wait for the big "clot" of cars to make it through the "artery", and then just start walking.

[kkt]

No, you should wait your turn rather than expect people to stop just because urbanists like to put pedestrians in a privileged position simply because they aren't motorists.

You have a funny notion of turns.  Wouldn't taking turns equally mean the party that gets to the intersection first goes first?  Unless the pedestrian is suicidally stepping out directly in front of the car, the pedestrian gets to the intersection first and is hoping the drivers still half a block away will stop as required by custom and law.

Many drivers are oblivious to pedestrians, so a pedestrian can stand in the crosswalk a few steps off the curb and still have to wait 10 minutes to cross.  I suppose all of them are wondering why the speed limit is below 40 mph.

[Takumi]

My old high school has a crosswalk with lights that flash between classes and at the beginning/end of the school day. There's also a crossing guard that stands in the middle of the road with a stop sign paddle during these times.


I don't remember when the lights were added (I just know it was after I graduated) but I think (and I may be wrong) this was done after a student was hit by a car.

[abc2VE]

My old high school has a crosswalk with lights that flash between classes and at the beginning/end of the school day. There's also a crossing guard that stands in the middle of the road with a stop sign paddle during these times.



I don't remember when the lights were added (I just know it was after I graduated) but I think (and I may be wrong) this was done after a student was hit by a car.

They were installed I believe around 2008, and our old crossing guard was also hit as well making there three hits that happened in that crosswalk while I was attending.

[national highway 1]

  
You know those lime green emergency signs? Well in New Zealand they use it for pedestrian-related situations, but they're a bit less citric than the MUTCD, because they're a bit like 'Borat Mankini' type green.