AARoads Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

New rules for political content in signatures and user profiles. See this thread for details.

Author Topic: PA Turnpike News  (Read 582954 times)

Beltway

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 6684
  • Roads to the Future

  • Location: Richmond, VA
  • Last Login: Today at 10:57:24 PM
Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2350 on: February 10, 2020, 08:57:21 PM »

CDOT has proven that you CAN widen a 2-lane tunnel with the Veterans Memorial Tunnels near Idaho Springs.  However those tunnels are much shorter than the one on the Penna Turnpike.
Shorter, like 730 feet long, and they had an easily constructible detour around the hill that the tunnel passes thru.

One idea that I have for the Turnpike tunnels, rather than build two new 3-lane tubes, build one new 3-lane tube, move that directional traffic there, close one of the older tunnels, bore it out and reline it to 3-lane size, and then move that directional traffic there.

That way only one older tunnel would need to be abandoned.
Logged
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

J N Winkler

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 6579
  • Location: Wichita, Kansas/Oxford, Great Britain
  • Last Login: Today at 06:40:23 PM
Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2351 on: February 10, 2020, 09:33:51 PM »

I've looked around and haven't found any for bored tunnels; there may be, but for example the Seattle tunnel and the bored Hampton Roads tunnel alternatives utilized a round cross-section as that best resists the enormous pressures underground.

I've downloaded a bunch of expressway construction plans for Gansu province, China, and as far as I can tell, they are using only elliptical cross-sections for mountain tunnels.  I think the Germans are also using an elliptical cross-section for the A44 Sontra tunnel (part of the Kassel-Herleshausen "missing link").  They did use a circular cross-section for the A7 Elbe Tunnel fourth bore, as did the Spanish for all four bores of the SE-40 tunnel--both of these were subaqueous projects.

Since this is a mountain location, I'm betting the Turnpike Commission will go with an elliptical cross-section if they develop the tunnel alternatives any further, which they may not.
Logged
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

Beltway

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 6684
  • Roads to the Future

  • Location: Richmond, VA
  • Last Login: Today at 10:57:24 PM
Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2352 on: February 10, 2020, 09:45:15 PM »

I've looked around and haven't found any for bored tunnels; there may be, but for example the Seattle tunnel and the bored Hampton Roads tunnel alternatives utilized a round cross-section as that best resists the enormous pressures underground.
I've downloaded a bunch of expressway construction plans for Gansu province, China, and as far as I can tell, they are using only elliptical cross-sections for mountain tunnels.  I think the Germans are also using an elliptical cross-section for the A44 Sontra tunnel (part of the Kassel-Herleshausen "missing link").  They did use a circular cross-section for the A7 Elbe Tunnel fourth bore, as did the Spanish for all four bores of the SE-40 tunnel--both of these were subaqueous projects.
How many lanes?  A 2-lane tunnel roadway has about 26 feet of horizontal clearance and 16 feet of vertical clearance, so generally that would fit in a circular cross-section.

For 3 or 4 lanes, the circular cross-section would waste a lot of space.  With 4 directional lanes the configuration of two 2-lane tubes can be utilized.

Since this is a mountain location, I'm betting the Turnpike Commission will go with an elliptical cross-section if they develop the tunnel alternatives any further, which they may not.
The shield-driven TBM is by nature a circular device in cross-section.  Seems like an elliptical cross-section would need a lot of shaping and work after the passage of possibly 2 TBMs.
Logged
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

J N Winkler

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 6579
  • Location: Wichita, Kansas/Oxford, Great Britain
  • Last Login: Today at 06:40:23 PM
Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2353 on: February 10, 2020, 11:10:09 PM »

How many lanes?  A 2-lane tunnel roadway has about 26 feet of horizontal clearance and 16 feet of vertical clearance, so generally that would fit in a circular cross-section.

All of these projects have been two lanes per tube.  The A7 Elbe tunnel fourth bore additionally has a shoulder (the other three bores do not).

The shield-driven TBM is by nature a circular device in cross-section.  Seems like an elliptical cross-section would need a lot of shaping and work after the passage of possibly 2 TBMs.

Yes.  An alternative is to use a roadheader, which is not limited to a circular cross-section.  This is what Caltrans did for the Caldecott Tunnel fourth bore, which was finished in 2013.

https://mtc.ca.gov/sites/default/files/Tunneling_FactSheet.pdf
Logged
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

Beltway

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 6684
  • Roads to the Future

  • Location: Richmond, VA
  • Last Login: Today at 10:57:24 PM
Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2354 on: February 10, 2020, 11:27:12 PM »

The shield-driven TBM is by nature a circular device in cross-section.  Seems like an elliptical cross-section would need a lot of shaping and work after the passage of possibly 2 TBMs.
Yes.  An alternative is to use a roadheader, which is not limited to a circular cross-section.  This is what Caltrans did for the Caldecott Tunnel fourth bore, which was finished in 2013.
https://mtc.ca.gov/sites/default/files/Tunneling_FactSheet.pdf
https://ucmp.berkeley.edu/exhibits/caltrans/fourthbore2.php
Image near the bottom of the webpage.

Not quite what I was picturing … generally elliptical above the roadway but somewhat flattened below the roadway.

Modern jet fan systems also obviate the need for plenum chambers above and below the roadway chamber, and that allows a lower height cross-section.
 
« Last Edit: February 10, 2020, 11:30:16 PM by Beltway »
Logged
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

Crown Victoria

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 51
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Eastern PA
  • Last Login: Today at 03:03:29 PM
Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2355 on: February 11, 2020, 07:16:36 PM »

CDOT has proven that you CAN widen a 2-lane tunnel with the Veterans Memorial Tunnels near Idaho Springs.  However those tunnels are much shorter than the one on the Penna Turnpike.
Shorter, like 730 feet long, and they had an easily constructible detour around the hill that the tunnel passes thru.

One idea that I have for the Turnpike tunnels, rather than build two new 3-lane tubes, build one new 3-lane tube, move that directional traffic there, close one of the older tunnels, bore it out and reline it to 3-lane size, and then move that directional traffic there.

That way only one older tunnel would need to be abandoned.

 
I wonder if an alternative was ever considered that proposed using the two existing tunnels for one direction, and a new 3-lane tunnel for the other.  For example, use the current westbound tunnel for trucks, the current eastbound tunnel for westbound cars, and a new tunnel for eastbound traffic. 

Too bad neither of these ideas are in the list of alternatives.  Makes sense to me to use as much existing infrastructure as possible.  I wonder if the PTC ever considered either of these options, and if they did, what the reasons were for dismissing them.
 
Logged

jeffandnicole

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 10779
  • Age: 45
  • Location: South Jersey
  • Last Login: Today at 09:54:10 PM
Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2356 on: February 11, 2020, 08:12:44 PM »

CDOT has proven that you CAN widen a 2-lane tunnel with the Veterans Memorial Tunnels near Idaho Springs.  However those tunnels are much shorter than the one on the Penna Turnpike.
Shorter, like 730 feet long, and they had an easily constructible detour around the hill that the tunnel passes thru.

One idea that I have for the Turnpike tunnels, rather than build two new 3-lane tubes, build one new 3-lane tube, move that directional traffic there, close one of the older tunnels, bore it out and reline it to 3-lane size, and then move that directional traffic there.

That way only one older tunnel would need to be abandoned.

 
I wonder if an alternative was ever considered that proposed using the two existing tunnels for one direction, and a new 3-lane tunnel for the other.  For example, use the current westbound tunnel for trucks, the current eastbound tunnel for westbound cars, and a new tunnel for eastbound traffic. 

Too bad neither of these ideas are in the list of alternatives.  Makes sense to me to use as much existing infrastructure as possible.  I wonder if the PTC ever considered either of these options, and if they did, what the reasons were for dismissing them.
 

Probably undersized for modern standards. Maintenance costs are much higher. Remember than many if these tunnels were originally designed as train tunnels, so there may be other issues not visible and unknown to the general public.
Logged

Beltway

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 6684
  • Roads to the Future

  • Location: Richmond, VA
  • Last Login: Today at 10:57:24 PM
Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2357 on: February 11, 2020, 09:39:07 PM »

I wonder if an alternative was ever considered that proposed using the two existing tunnels for one direction, and a new 3-lane tunnel for the other.  For example, use the current westbound tunnel for trucks, the current eastbound tunnel for westbound cars, and a new tunnel for eastbound traffic. 
Too bad neither of these ideas are in the list of alternatives.  Makes sense to me to use as much existing infrastructure as possible.  I wonder if the PTC ever considered either of these options, and if they did, what the reasons were for dismissing them.
Probably undersized for modern standards. Maintenance costs are much higher. Remember than many if these tunnels were originally designed as train tunnels, so there may be other issues not visible and unknown to the general public.
Maybe so, but I believe that they have 24-foot roadways.

Another alternative would be to build two new 2-lane tubes, and rehab the existing tubes, so there would be 8 lanes on 4 separate tubes.  They would have 8 lanes for sometime when needed in the future, and the approach turnpike would be widened to 6 lanes in the near future.
Logged
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

seicer

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1398
  • Last Login: Today at 10:01:37 PM
Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2358 on: February 12, 2020, 11:33:04 AM »

Probably undersized for modern standards. Maintenance costs are much higher. Remember than many if these tunnels were originally designed as train tunnels, so there may be other issues not visible and unknown to the general public.

To an extent. The borings may have been reused (I think for one tunnel that was the case) but the tunnels were all but rebuilt inside and outside.

In the case of this particular tunnel in question, there is an abandoned railroad tunnel that wasn't used just to the north. You can see them at https://www.steamphotos.com/Railroad-Photos/Abandoned-Railroad-Tunnels/South-Penn-Railroad-Tunnels-Abandoned-Pennsylvania-Turnpike/
Logged

sbeaver44

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 353
  • Accountant/Roadgeek

  • Age: 32
  • Location: Lewisberry, Pennsylvania
  • Last Login: April 02, 2020, 10:11:18 AM
    • Flickr - WestPA31
Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2359 on: February 18, 2020, 09:52:46 AM »

Does the Turnpike use internal letter designations for the extensions?  I recall seeing somewhere the the Northeast Extension is A, and the Mon Fayette is M.  PA Tpk 576 seems to be S per the toll guide.

What are the letters, if so, for PA Tpk 66 and 376?

I noticed the last time I was on I-70 between I-76 and US 30 at Breezewood that 70 still has the older style tiny mile markers preceded with BC -- presumably Breezewood Connector.
Logged

J N Winkler

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 6579
  • Location: Wichita, Kansas/Oxford, Great Britain
  • Last Login: Today at 06:40:23 PM
Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2360 on: February 18, 2020, 10:23:42 AM »

Does the Turnpike use internal letter designations for the extensions?  I recall seeing somewhere the the Northeast Extension is A, and the Mon Fayette is M.  PA Tpk 576 seems to be S per the toll guide.

Yes--the PTC uses internal letter designations for the mainline (T) as well as the extensions.  They also form part of contract numbers for contracts that are specific to particular segments of road.

I don't know the letters for 66 or 376.  There haven't been any recent PTC contracts involving them (the I-376 redesignation was a PennDOT project), and the mile markers are not helpful.
Logged
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

sbeaver44

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 353
  • Accountant/Roadgeek

  • Age: 32
  • Location: Lewisberry, Pennsylvania
  • Last Login: April 02, 2020, 10:11:18 AM
    • Flickr - WestPA31
Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2361 on: February 18, 2020, 05:21:10 PM »

Does the Turnpike use internal letter designations for the extensions?  I recall seeing somewhere the the Northeast Extension is A, and the Mon Fayette is M.  PA Tpk 576 seems to be S per the toll guide.

Yes--the PTC uses internal letter designations for the mainline (T) as well as the extensions.  They also form part of contract numbers for contracts that are specific to particular segments of road.

I don't know the letters for 66 or 376.  There haven't been any recent PTC contracts involving them (the I-376 redesignation was a PennDOT project), and the mile markers are not helpful.
Very cool, thanks!

I did some digging -- 376/Beaver Valley is B RFP 100983

66/Amos Hutchison is G -- page 14
Aug2018 Meeting
« Last Edit: February 18, 2020, 05:31:01 PM by sbeaver44 »
Logged

MASTERNC

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 562
  • Last Login: Today at 08:48:26 PM
Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2362 on: February 19, 2020, 06:54:16 PM »

Be advised the 24 hour Tuscarora Tunnel closures start this weekend

Logged

Beltway

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 6684
  • Roads to the Future

  • Location: Richmond, VA
  • Last Login: Today at 10:57:24 PM
Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2363 on: February 19, 2020, 08:57:41 PM »

Be advised the 24 hour Tuscarora Tunnel closures start this weekend
Each closure will be 8 p.m. to 9 a.m. the next morning --

Starting Tuesday, Dec. 3 from 8 p.m. to Friday Dec. 6 at 9 a.m., crews will implement nightly traffic stoppages of no more than 15 minutes in both directions to establish a crossover pattern, directing all traffic into the eastbound tunnel.  By 8 p.m. each night, the westbound tunnel will be closed and all traffic diverted into the eastbound tunnel until 9 a.m. when the patterns are lifted.

The following week, weekly nighttime crossovers will begin Sunday, Dec. 8 from 8 p.m. to Friday, Dec. 13 at 9 a.m.  This will occur at night each week — Sunday to Friday from 8 p.m. to 9 a.m. — through January.


https://www.paturnpike.com/press/2019/20191202120505.htm
Logged
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

MASTERNC

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 562
  • Last Login: Today at 08:48:26 PM
Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2364 on: February 20, 2020, 09:37:50 PM »

Be advised the 24 hour Tuscarora Tunnel closures start this weekend
Each closure will be 8 p.m. to 9 a.m. the next morning --

Starting Tuesday, Dec. 3 from 8 p.m. to Friday Dec. 6 at 9 a.m., crews will implement nightly traffic stoppages of no more than 15 minutes in both directions to establish a crossover pattern, directing all traffic into the eastbound tunnel.  By 8 p.m. each night, the westbound tunnel will be closed and all traffic diverted into the eastbound tunnel until 9 a.m. when the patterns are lifted.

The following week, weekly nighttime crossovers will begin Sunday, Dec. 8 from 8 p.m. to Friday, Dec. 13 at 9 a.m.  This will occur at night each week — Sunday to Friday from 8 p.m. to 9 a.m. — through January.


https://www.paturnpike.com/press/2019/20191202120505.htm

That was the last stage.  This stage is continuous closures from 9 PM Sunday to Noon Friday.

https://www.paturnpike.com/press/2020/20200220151650.htm
Logged

Beltway

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 6684
  • Roads to the Future

  • Location: Richmond, VA
  • Last Login: Today at 10:57:24 PM
Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2365 on: February 20, 2020, 10:03:59 PM »

Starting Tuesday, Dec. 3 from 8 p.m. to Friday Dec. 6 at 9 a.m., crews will implement nightly traffic stoppages of no more than 15 minutes in both directions to establish a crossover pattern, directing all traffic into the eastbound tunnel.  By 8 p.m. each night, the westbound tunnel will be closed and all traffic diverted into the eastbound tunnel until 9 a.m. when the patterns are lifted.
The following week, weekly nighttime crossovers will begin Sunday, Dec. 8 from 8 p.m. to Friday, Dec. 13 at 9 a.m.  This will occur at night each week — Sunday to Friday from 8 p.m. to 9 a.m. — through January.

https://www.paturnpike.com/press/2019/20191202120505.htm
That was the last stage.  This stage is continuous closures from 9 PM Sunday to Noon Friday.
https://www.paturnpike.com/press/2020/20200220151650.htm

So closed for 6 1/2  24-hour days?
Logged
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

MASTERNC

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 562
  • Last Login: Today at 08:48:26 PM
Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2366 on: February 22, 2020, 08:34:18 PM »

Starting Tuesday, Dec. 3 from 8 p.m. to Friday Dec. 6 at 9 a.m., crews will implement nightly traffic stoppages of no more than 15 minutes in both directions to establish a crossover pattern, directing all traffic into the eastbound tunnel.  By 8 p.m. each night, the westbound tunnel will be closed and all traffic diverted into the eastbound tunnel until 9 a.m. when the patterns are lifted.
The following week, weekly nighttime crossovers will begin Sunday, Dec. 8 from 8 p.m. to Friday, Dec. 13 at 9 a.m.  This will occur at night each week — Sunday to Friday from 8 p.m. to 9 a.m. — through January.

https://www.paturnpike.com/press/2019/20191202120505.htm
That was the last stage.  This stage is continuous closures from 9 PM Sunday to Noon Friday.
https://www.paturnpike.com/press/2020/20200220151650.htm

So closed for 6 1/2  24-hour days?

More like 4 1/2 days a week.  Full access restored for weekend travel.
Logged

Beltway

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 6684
  • Roads to the Future

  • Location: Richmond, VA
  • Last Login: Today at 10:57:24 PM
Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2367 on: February 26, 2020, 12:52:41 AM »

Some posters in another roads forum complained about this being pay-walled, so I am posting the entire article.

This is the Grey Cut alternative, and has 18.4 million cubic yards of excavation, 249 feet deep and costs $332 million.

Nothing in the article about the massive size of this cut.

The question is where does all that excavation go, can they somehow balance the cuts and fills on the project? 

Like to see renderings of what it would look like from various vantage points, it might look horrendous due to the massive size.

I can't imagine what a cut of 18 million cubic yards of excavation, 250 feet deep, over a mile of route, would look like.  That is 5 times the cubic yards of the Sideling Hill Cut on I-68.

This is truly the "tunnel territory" for such a transportation barrier.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Pennsylvania Turnpike moving ahead with new road to bypass Allegheny Tunnel in Somerset County
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Feb 23, 2020 6:00 AM
 
After identifying serious shortcomings with the Pennsylvania Turnpike’s Allegheny Tunnel in Somerset County nearly 25 years ago, the agency has settled on a preferred plan to build a new road around the existing structure.

But don’t count on driving on the proposed $332.4 million bypass road south of the tunnel any time soon. The project is going through environmental review now, followed by three to four years of design and — once the agency finds the money — about three years for construction.

A quick history lesson on the project: In 1995, turnpike inspectors identified a series of problems with the tunnel. Those included the condition of the tunnel; high traffic volume and accident rates; sharp curves approaching from the west that no longer meet design standards; and the fact that trucks carrying hazardous loads aren’t permitted in the tunnel.

Like many road projects, what to do about those problems went through many stops and starts due to funding and concerns from some neighboring property owners. But after the most recent start in 2010, turnpike engineers and designers have been pushing to find a workable solution.
 
With the westbound tunnel dating to the turnpike’s original construction in 1939 and the eastbound portal added in 1965, the agency decided it would be too expensive and too disruptive to upgrade the existing facilities. Instead, it developed a series of options that were presented at a public meeting in Somerset last month as part of the environmental review process.

Officials presented three pairs of options, each with a new tunnel and new road: a part to the north with a projected cost of $761 million for a new tunnel and $384.9 million for a new road; a different northern route that would cost $702.1 million for a tunnel and $378 million for a road; and a southern option that would cost $627.9 million for a tunnel and $332.4 million for a new road.

Matthew Burd, special projects manager for the turnpike, said the agency prefers the option of building the southern road, which would be cut into the mountain about 1,000 feet south of the tunnel. Not only is it the least expensive option, it has the fewest environmental concerns from the Indiana bat habitat and wetlands and would involve taking the fewest amount of homes, several near the western end of the tunnel.

“None of these is a silver bullet that will fix all of the problems,” Mr. Burd said. “It’s not a one-size-fits-all solution, but we feel it has the best options.”

Mr. Burd described the path shown during last month’s public meeting as “a pretty good snapshot” of the proposed path but stressed that it is “very, very preliminary.” The exact location could shift once designers and engineers do test borings and other preliminary work to determine the condition of the land that would be used for the new highway, he said.

Plans call for three eastbound lanes to allow a climbing lane due to the sharp incline in the that area and redesigning the sharp curves approaching the tunnel from the east to meet current standards. The existing curves have a 55 mph speed limit in an area where 70 mph is permitted.

Although the project is moving ahead, Mr. Burd said the turnpike will be trying to identify construction funding. It doesn’t know yet whether the agency will have the money when the design is finished or will have to wait several years for construction until the funding is identified.
 
While the agency proceeds with the lengthy process of pursuing the bypass, it also has to maintain the existing tunnel. The commission last week approved a $20.7 million contract with Mosites Construction Co. to replace the tunnel’s lighting and conduit, which spokesman Carl DeFebo said was a safety concern and needed to be done this year.

Mosites will work overnight on one tunnel at a time with traffic shifted to the other tunnel in both directions.

The decision to proceed with the Allegheny bypass follows a review last year of the possibility of grouping upgrades of all five turnpike tunnels under one contract as part of a public-private partnership, where the contractor would upgrade the facilities and be responsible for maintenance for 30 years. Although that approach could have upgraded all of the tunnels in five to six years, the agency decided the upfront cost of about $350 million was too expensive at a time when it is dealing with debts of more than $12 billion.

As a result, the turnpike began a four-year, $110 million rehabilitation of the Tuscarora Tunnel at the Huntingdon-Franklin County line in December. Beginning at 9 p.m. Sunday, the eastbound tube will close from Sunday evenings until noon on Fridays through June.


https://www.post-gazette.com/news/transportation/2020/02/23/Pa-Turnpike-Allegheny-Tunnel-Somerset-County-new-road-eliminate-tunnel-332-million-project/stories/202002210109?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook_Pittsburgh_Post-Gazette&fbclid=IwAR3xm0fAUPGDIKnLeKF15i5HriGRwMUIY1FW8jtGb13DMcnuzho3uubznI8
 
« Last Edit: February 26, 2020, 12:56:56 AM by Beltway »
Logged
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

mgk920

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3609
  • Location: Appleton, WI USA
  • Last Login: April 01, 2020, 09:33:22 PM
Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2368 on: March 01, 2020, 10:36:20 AM »

Some posters in another roads forum complained about this being pay-walled, so I am posting the entire article.

This is the Grey Cut alternative, and has 18.4 million cubic yards of excavation, 249 feet deep and costs $332 million.

Nothing in the article about the massive size of this cut.

The question is where does all that excavation go, can they somehow balance the cuts and fills on the project? 

Like to see renderings of what it would look like from various vantage points, it might look horrendous due to the massive size.

I can't imagine what a cut of 18 million cubic yards of excavation, 250 feet deep, over a mile of route, would look like.  That is 5 times the cubic yards of the Sideling Hill Cut on I-68.

This is truly the "tunnel territory" for such a transportation barrier.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[snippage]


How does this compare with the tunnel bypass cut on the West Virginia Turnpike (I-64/77)?

Mike
Logged

briantroutman

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1989
  • Location: Philadelphia
  • Last Login: Today at 10:12:58 PM
    • briantroutman.com/land
Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2369 on: March 01, 2020, 11:03:14 AM »

How does this compare with the tunnel bypass cut on the West Virginia Turnpike (I-64/77)?

Well according to a quick Google search leading to website of the Center for Land Use Interpretation:

Quote from: https://www.clui.org/ludb/site/center-national-responsememorial-tunnel
This cut moved 10 million cubic yards of earth, and yielded about 300,000 tons of coal from the mountain.
Logged

Crown Victoria

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 51
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Eastern PA
  • Last Login: Today at 03:03:29 PM
Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2370 on: March 16, 2020, 04:42:31 PM »

Logged

ixnay

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 951
  • Location: U.S. East Coast
  • Last Login: Today at 07:17:41 PM
Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2371 on: March 16, 2020, 04:54:58 PM »

The PA Turnpike will begin temporary AET operations tonight...

https://www.pennlive.com/coronavirus/2020/03/pa-turnpike-will-temporarily-not-accept-cash-or-credit-cards-because-of-coronavirus.html

https://www.paturnpike.com/press/2020/20200316132828.htm

Quote
News Release
        March 16, 2020

PA Turnpike Temporarily Will Not Accept Cash To Safeguard Employee and Traveler Health
Cash customers should NOT stop at tollbooths; they’ll be invoiced by mail starting at 8 p.m.

HARRISBURG, PA (MARCH 16, 2020) – The Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission (PTC) is alerting motorists that cash will not be accepted at any interchange statewide beginning tonight at 8 p.m. This is a temporary safety measure to keep travelers moving with no need to stop at tollbooths or interact with tolling personnel during the COVID-19 pandemic.

ixnay
Logged

sbeaver44

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 353
  • Accountant/Roadgeek

  • Age: 32
  • Location: Lewisberry, Pennsylvania
  • Last Login: April 02, 2020, 10:11:18 AM
    • Flickr - WestPA31
Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2372 on: March 16, 2020, 06:25:14 PM »

The PA Turnpike will begin temporary AET operations tonight...

https://www.pennlive.com/coronavirus/2020/03/pa-turnpike-will-temporarily-not-accept-cash-or-credit-cards-because-of-coronavirus.html

https://www.paturnpike.com/press/2020/20200316132828.htm

Quote
News Release
  March 16, 2020

PA Turnpike Temporarily Will Not Accept Cash To Safeguard Employee and Traveler Health
Cash customers should NOT stop at tollbooths; they’ll be invoiced by mail starting at 8 p.m.

HARRISBURG, PA (MARCH 16, 2020) – The Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission (PTC) is alerting motorists that cash will not be accepted at any interchange statewide beginning tonight at 8 p.m. This is a temporary safety measure to keep travelers moving with no need to stop at tollbooths or interact with tolling personnel during the COVID-19 pandemic.

ixnay
Gonna ask a really dumb question
If they have to technology to do this temporarily, why delay the full scale implementation until late 2021?
Logged

briantroutman

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1989
  • Location: Philadelphia
  • Last Login: Today at 10:12:58 PM
    • briantroutman.com/land
Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2373 on: March 16, 2020, 07:12:35 PM »

Gonna ask a really dumb question
If they have to technology to do this temporarily, why delay the full scale implementation until late 2021?

I could posit a few guesses.

- As of today, the motorists currently have the expectation that cash is accepted on the PA Turnpike—with the exception of the few “cash free” zones that the PTC has publicized rather heavily. And the PTC has already announced a timetable for AET conversion that the Commission’s leaders assumably believe to be adequate advance notice of the change to AET. Generally, public agencies go to great lengths to make sure that all constituencies—even the laggards—are more than adequately warned and accommodated. The current situation is, of course, a state and federal emergency, so it’s an exception.

- PA Turnpike toll collectors are unionized, and it may not be possible to quickly transition to AET under existing employment contracts. I wouldn’t be surprised if the current 2021 transition date coincides with some kind of contract expiration or a previously agreed upon transition window.

- The PTC may be making significant changes to its billing processes and tech infrastructure in order to accommodate the official AET transition. In the current emergency, the agency is essentially using the current violations processing system to bill non-E-ZPass customers by mail...and simply waiving violations surcharges. But the existing violations infrastructure may be less efficient than the mechanism that’s in place by the official AET transition, and in this current “emergency AET” situation, the PTC may be enduring higher processing costs and writing off a greater percentage of tolls as uncollectible. But from the Commission's perspective, bearing those higher costs and losses associated with uncollectible tolls is a better option than simply waiving all tolls (as happened during the last toll collectors’ strike).

- I imagine that the actual AET transition will coincide with some physical changes to toll plazas—reductions of lanes, removal of collectors’ booths etc.—which will take time to implement systemwide.
Logged

MASTERNC

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 562
  • Last Login: Today at 08:48:26 PM
Re: PA Turnpike News
« Reply #2374 on: March 16, 2020, 08:52:30 PM »

I'm guessing they have installed the license plate cameras in all of the entry lanes now that allow them to know where a vehicle entered as well as when it exited.
Logged

 


Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.