I-376 to be Extended...Eventually

[mightyace]

Traffic on 22-30 not only will still have to TOTSO at this interchange, but will also have to do so through channel lanes attached to signalized intersections.

Pardon my ignorance, what does TOTSO stand for?

[J N Winkler]

TOTSO = turn off to stay on = take an exit to follow the same route.

[Sykotyk]

I don't like one freeway being forced through a signal light to enter another freeway. Although, given, the 'I-376' is now the primary, there's several instances of this now throughout the country.

US22 and the eventual I-576 (currently Toll PA 576) will have stop-signs and left turns from one freeway to another.

Sykotyk

[PAHighways]

US22 and the eventual I-576 (currently Toll PA 576) will have stop-signs and left turns from one freeway to another.

It is PA Turnpike 576, and traffic between the two already has to endure stop signs and left turns.

[PAHighways]

PennDOT District 11-0 announced today that I-376 is now officially designated from I-79 to Monroeville:

http://tinyurl.com/m56xje
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09161/976411-147.stm

[mightyace]

PennDOT District 11-0 announced today that I-376 is now officially designated from I-79 to Monroeville:

http://tinyurl.com/m56xje
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09161/976411-147.stm

I read those but they did not say anything about how the new exit numbers would be done.

IIRC The old I-376 Mile 0 is at the I-279 junction and increases toward the turnpike.

Will the new Mile 0 be the I-376/I-79 junction, the eventual endpoint with I-80 near Sharon, or someplace else.

[PAHighways]

The new Mile 0 should be I-80.  I can't see posting milemarkers and exit numbers beginning at I-79 only to have to go back and change them out.

[mightyace]

The new Mile 0 should be I-80.  I can't see posting milemarkers and exit numbers beginning at I-79 only to have to go back and change them out.

Hopefully that's what will get done, but maybe not because that makes SENSE!   

[J N Winkler]

It will get done.  The new exit numbers are in the I-376 redesignation contracts.

[Alex]

Is it possible that once Interstate 376 is signed west of Interstate 79, that Pennsylvania Turnpike 576 could be upgraded to Interstate 576 since it will begin at another Interstate highway and end at U.S. 22-30 (NHS routes right?).

[treichard]

It will get done.  The new exit numbers are in the I-376 redesignation contracts.

Are the new exit numbers listed or only mentioned?  I've been looking for a list but didn't find one on the PennDOT site.

[PAHighways]

Is it possible that once Interstate 376 is signed west of Interstate 79, that Pennsylvania Turnpike 576 could be upgraded to Interstate 576 since it will begin at another Interstate highway and end at U.S. 22-30 (NHS routes right?).

That was the PTC's intent when they picked the "PA Turnpike 576" designation for the Southern Beltway and the leg into Monroeville.

[PAHighways]

Are the new exit numbers listed or only mentioned?  I've been looking for a list but didn't find one on the PennDOT site.

In one of the numerous e-mails I received yesterday, someone mentioned the milemarkers and exit numbers between the airport and Chippewa have been changed.  I might take a ride out there to field check and see if they are different.

[J N Winkler]

It will get done.  The new exit numbers are in the I-376 redesignation contracts.

Are the new exit numbers listed or only mentioned?  I've been looking for a list but didn't find one on the PennDOT site.

The exit numbers aren't tabulated as such in the various contracts and I am not aware that PennDOT has put a list online.  Someone on one of the other forums (SkyscraperCity, I think) put an exit list online, but I think it was generated by back-calculating from mileages and does not come from an authoritative source.

Each contract has sign layout sheets which show the new exit tabs which are to be installed as part of the work on I-376 in that contract.  The contracts I think to be part of the I-376 redesignation are as follows:

*  75905--I-376 rehabilitation and Squirrel Hill Tunnel overheight detector replacement

*  65122--22-30-60 interchange refurbishment

*  74898, 74899--I-376 rehabilitation

For your purposes the first two are the most important.  65122 includes signing work on what is now Pa. 60 north of the 22-30-60 interchange, I think all the way north to the start of the tolled section.  75905 definitely covers I-376 from Pittsburgh to the Turnpike at Monroeville.  I am not sure how Pa. 60 is being handled between the toll section and I-80 (I presume by a separate rehabilitation contract), I am assuming the Turnpike Commission will take care of numbering on its stretch of I-376, and I am also not sure what is being done about the signing between downtown Pittsburgh and the 22-30-60 interchange.

In the listing above the five-digit numbers are ECMS project codes, needed to find the actual plans here:

http://www.dot14.state.pa.us/ECMS/

Choose "Enter as a guest," go to "Solicitations" dropdown, choose "Bid Packages," and enter the ECMS code for the project you are interested in at the box at upper right.

Edit:  Just found 76610, which changes the exit numbers on I-376 between (future) Exits 31 and 48.

[treichard]

Thanks  - I found blueprints for the highway signs in that ECMS system.  You can see the signs and exit numbers before they are built.

Exit 31  - PA 51 Chippewa
36 - Brighton
38 - PA 68 Beaver /Midland
39 - PA 18  Monaca/Shippingport
42 - Center
45 - Aliquippa
48 - PA 151  Hopewell

All from one document from one project.

[mightyace]

Thanks  - I found blueprints for the highway signs in that ECMS system.  You can see the signs and exit numbers before they are built.

Exit 31  - PA 51 Chippewa
36 - Brighton
38 - PA 68 Beaver /Midland
39 - PA 18  Monaca/Shippingport
42 - Center
45 - Aliquippa
48 - PA 151  Hopewell

All from one document from one project.

Those new exit numbers increase going to Pittsburgh.  Going back 31 miles from the PA 51 exit does put you at I-80.  I'm glad someone at PennDot is thinking ahead. 

Let's hope they're also re-signing the toll section because the 2009 PA map shows the PA 51 Chippewa exit as #29 and the numbers go up going north from there reaching 45 at US 422 near New Castle.

[PAHighways]

Those new exit numbers increase going to Pittsburgh.  Going back 31 miles from the PA 51 exit does put you at I-80.  I'm glad someone at PennDot is thinking ahead. 

It's not your father's PennDOT.

Let's hope they're also re-signing the toll section because the 2009 PA map shows the PA 51 Chippewa exit as #29 and the numbers go up going north from there reaching 45 at US 422 near New Castle.

It will.  The only reason that the exit numbers jump from 14 to 29 is because all Interstates and toll roads converted to mileage-based numbers, but other PennDOT expressways were allowed to stay sequential.  Now that it will be an Interstate from end-to-end, that won't be a problem.

[treichard]

Here are the new exit numbers that I could find from PennDOT's signing plans in the ECMS. The plans mention I-376 and I-376 BL as expected. Some signs will be replaced (using Clearview font), others will have an overlay (e.g. PA 60 removed and I-376 added).

How I found them:
Go to http://www.dot14.state.pa.us/ECMS/
Log in as a guest.
Click on Sitemap at the bottom.
Click on Bid Packages Portal.
Enter the project number in the upper right. You might have to click on the page (not on links) a couple times to get an annoying blue box to vanish first.
(Not quite the path mentioned a few posts up, but this way worked in Firefox, while PennDOT seems to love IE.)

Project # 76610:
31 - PA 51 Chippewa
36 - Brighton
38 - PA 68 Beaver /Midland
39 - PA 18 Monaca/Shippingport
42 - Center
45 - Aliquippa
48 - PA 151 Hopewell

Project # 65122:
50 - I-376BL (north split)
51 - Flaugherty Road
52 - SR 3089 TO US 30 Clinton
53 - PT576 To US 22 & Airport
56 - McClaren Road
57 - I-376BL (south split)
58 - Montour Run Road
59 - Robinson Town Center Blvd.
60 - US 22/US 30/PA 60 Crafton/Weirton
61 - Ridge Road
62 - Campbells Run Road
64A - I-79 Erie/Washington

Project # 75905
I-376
64B - Rosslyn Farms
65 - PA 50 Heidelberg
67 - PA 121 Green Tree/Mt Lebanon
68 - Parkway Centre Dr.
69A - US 19/Trk 19/PA 51 Banksville Road/Uniontown
69B - South Trk US 19/PA 51 Uniontown
69C - North US 19/PA 51 West End
70A - Blvd. of the Allies/Liberty Ave/Mellon Arena
70B - Ft. Duquesne Blvs./ Convention Ctr/Strip District
70C - I-279 North Shore
70D - Stanwix Street
71A - Grant St.
71B - Second Ave.
72A - Forbes Avenue/Oakland
72B - Blvd. of the Allies/Liberty Bridge
73 - PA 885
74 - Squirrel Hill/Homestead
77 - Edgewood/Swissvale
78 - US 30/PA 8 Forest Hills/Wilkinsburg
79A - Greensburg Pike
79B - PA 130 Churchill
80 - US 22 Business Monroeville
81 - PA 791 Penn Hills
84 - PA 48 Monroeville
85 - I-76/PA Tpk Ohio/Harrisburg
none - US 22

I-279
1A - Convention Center/Strip District
1B - North Shore
1C - North PA 65 to US 19 Ohio River Blvd.
1D - PA 28 North Etna
2A - I-579 South Veterans Bridge
2B - To PA 28 North East Street
3 - Hazlett St
4 - Trk US 19 North McKnight Rd/Evergreen Rd
4 - Venture Street
5 - US 19 North Perrysville Avenue [sometimes Exit 4, maybe for HOV lane]
7 - Bellevue/West View
8 - Camp Horne Road
none - I-79

I couldn't find anything for the part from I-80 to New Castle.  I didn't find anything on the Tpk 60 section either, but I wouldn't expect to find that on PennDOT's site.

Exit numbers are not listed for I-376BL where you'd expect them after seeing the I-376 plans, so I assume it won't have any.

There are a few other sign mistakes in the plans. There are PA Tpk 76 signs in the plans near the PA 130 interchange. Yes, PA Turnpike 76, not I-76, not PA Tpk 576.   On SB I-79 at the north beginning of I-279, you have a choice of I-279 SOUTH Pittsburgh or I-279 SOUTH Washington [latter should be I-79]. There's an END US 8 shield at the PA 8 interchange of I-376.

There are also "OLD EXIT [number]" signs in the plans.

Several people mentioned a dislike for the I-99 and I-376 designations.  The last I-376 exit will be Exit 85 for the I-76 turnpike.  The last exit of I-99 would be Exit 85 for I-80 when that interchange is reconstructed (aside from the long-term extension into NY).   I therefore conclude that the number 85 causes dislike.

[PAHighways]

There are a few other sign mistakes in the plans. There are PA Tpk 76 signs in the plans near the PA 130 interchange. Yes, PA Turnpike 76, not I-76, not PA Tpk 576.   On SB I-79 at the north beginning of I-279, you have a choice of I-279 SOUTH Pittsburgh or I-279 SOUTH Washington [latter should be I-79]. There's an END US 8 shield at the PA 8 interchange of I-376.

Sounds like there might be a few potential sign errors to photograph if they stick to the plans.

There is/was a PA Turnpike 76 shield on the off-ramp from 79 SB to 228 in Cranberry.

[J N Winkler]

I couldn't find anything for the part from I-80 to New Castle.

Found it:  SR 0060 Section L06.

SR 60, Section L06 - I376 Redesignation in Lawrence County
   
    * Location
          o S.R. 60 from the Beaver County Line to the Mercer County Line in Neshannock, Pulaski, Wilmington & Union Townships, Lawrence County

    * Scope of Work
          o Interchange upgrades, new pavement lanes, guide rail upgrades, signing and sign structure replacements and other miscellaneous work required to re-designate S.R. 60 as I-376.

    * Estimated Construction Cost
          o $10 Million

    * Proposed Construction Schedule
          o Begin — Spring 2008
          o Complete — Fall/Winter 2008

    * For More Information Contact:
          o Doug Seeley, P.E., Project Manager
          o dseeley@state.pa.us
          o 412-429-4883

I'm doing a straight cut-and-paste since I'm not sure a direct link will actually go to this page.  The bread crumb trail is PennDOT District 11 homepage --> Roadwork --> Design --> Choose I-376 redesignation in Lawrence County.

Notwithstanding the statements about construction beginning in spring 2008 and finishing last autumn/winter, this contract has not yet been advertised.  (I wonder how up to date this page is kept.)

[treichard]

It's project # 76609  in the ECMS, but the site tells me "No records found" when I try to look at any project details.

I think it tells me that for any project flagged to be in the Design stage, and that is this project's status.

[J N Winkler]

Yup, I just tried it and got the same result.  I think it is possible to get design information for 76609 elsewhere in ECMS, but only if you have an account with the appropriate access permissions (rather than the generic guest account we are all using).

ECMS does have a link to PennDOT's letting schedule:

ftp://ftp.dot.state.pa.us/public/Bureaus/Cpdm/MPMSDATA/letschdl.pdf

There is also a District 1 redesignation project, 86430, which is meant to cover the bit of Pa. 60/future I-376 in Shenango Township (essentially, in Mercer County between I-80 and the Lawrence County line).  Projected letting date is given as July 9, 2009.  In principle advertising should be imminent, but I get "No records" when I try that number (which strictly speaking is a MPMS number--the ECMS number is not necessarily the same).  There is no listing for 76609, either under that ECMS number or {PA060}.

[J N Winkler]

Just to respond to the (so far) last post by 'admin' here (& apologies for self-replying):

http://clinched.s2.bizhat.com/viewtopic.php?p=1920&mforum=clinched#1920

PennDOT's ECMS actually contains bid packages going back to 2002, and construction plans going back either to late 2002 or early 2003.  For letting dates before January 1, 2004, PennDOT made the construction plans available as single sheets, which means that they have to be downloaded sheet by sheet in order to get a complete set.  This is a painful process for very large projects (say, the Lewistown Narrows job), but methods exist for automating it.  After January 1, 2004, plans were made available as groups of premerged sheet sets, initially as multipage TIFF files but latterly as raster PDFs.  PennDOT is increasingly moving toward plotted PDFs and this is already the dominant type of PDF from PennDOT Districts 6 and 8.

PennDOT's ECMS contains many thousands of pages of signing sheets.  I have personally collected almost 800 sheets of pattern-accurate sign design sheets, which typically comprise about one-quarter of the signing sheets in a project which has pattern-accurate signing.  I am sorry to say that there are quite a few PennDOT projects, including major ones like the Camp Hill Flyover and the I-78 Lebanon County refurbishment, which do not have pattern-accurate signing plans.

[treichard]

Feel free to register at that Clinched Highway Mapping forum.  We could use more people to help us keep up-to-date on highway changes for our ambitious project.  I'm known as "admin" there.

I lost count with how many single-page files I had to go through to pick off all those exit numbers from the ECMS plans.  It was indeed an tedious process that could be improved easily, perhaps with a single command.  Still it was interesting to see how it can take hundreds of pages of plans to spell out just the signs for a project. And it was a humbling reminder to see how many signs need to be updated or created and then posted just to do something that sounds so simple as "change parts of PA 60 and I-279 to I-376".

I've already heard reports of new I-376 shields posted along what is now I-279/I-376 SW of Pittsburgh.

[PAHighways]

I've already heard reports of new I-376 shields posted along what is now I-279/I-376 SW of Pittsburgh.

PennDOT did what NYSDOT did on NY 17 when I-86 was signed:  replaced the 279s with 376s, then moved the former designation down the "totem pole."