I-376 to be Extended...Eventually

[PAHighways]

One of my contributors sent me some pictures of the changes taking place on the Beaver Valley Expressway.  The new 376 mile markers and shields are installed but are covered up with plastic and with PA 60 shields respectively.  The exit tabs have been replaced, but a temporary green overlay with the current 60 numbers cover up the 376 numbers.

[rickmastfan67]

Really stupid IMO.  They now have to produce brand new BGS's if they want to keep the US-22/30 shields on them.....

None of the other signage to any of the Parkways mentions the multiplexed US route.  I'd say they leave any pull-through signage heading westbound at 79 alone until the designation is extended.

You were saying?


(Taken 05/10/09 going SB on I-79)

I still don't get why they put the US routes first....

[PAHighways]

Those were installed when the missing ramps were built.  I was referring to signage heading westbound on the Parkway.

[rickmastfan67]

Those were installed when the missing ramps were built.  I was referring to signage heading westbound on the Parkway.

Alright.

Anyways, I have a new update on the Exit Number situation on the Parkway West.  I was on it today and 90% of the EB I-376 (NB I-279) signage has been changed and new exit numbers have been posted from I-79 to just shy of the PA-51 interchange.  About 50% of the signage for the PA-51 interchange exit numbers have been changed to the new numbers, while the rest still just has the old I-279 numbers.  As for WB I-376 (SB I-279) signage, nothing has changed going that way yet on the Parkway West.  As of right now, I don't have any pictures of the changes since I was only going WB at that time.  Hopefully, by the end of the weekend, I'll hopefully have shots of them.

[CMHroads]

Just a curious question about I-376.  Why did it have an odd first number when it connected two interstates?  I76 connected to I-279 via I-376.  Now that its being extended, it makes perfect sense to have the 3 in front of 76.  Maybe it was always meant to be extended?? 

[agentsteel53]

the even numbers, ideally, tend to be loop roads that end at the same interstate.   I-805 in San Diego is a great example of this, as is I-405 in Los Angeles.

even-numbered 3dis also tend to be full beltways that encircle a city and connect to their parent route at two points on the circle, such as I-435 in Kansas City (and Kansas City).

the odd numbers tend to be a spur route from their parent, and are numbered without regard to what other interstates they may connect to.  In LA, I-110 and I-710 hit I-5, as well as various and sundry other 3dis, both odd and even.  (Okay, I-710 does not formally hit I-210 but it was intended to!)  They both hit I-10 exactly once, so they are given odd numbers.  Same with I-505 in Norcal that spurs off I-5 and ends up at I-80.

Don't ask me why I-605 is signed as a loop when it is most decisively a spur ... I think they were simply running short on x05 numbering options.  (Dunno when unsigned I-305 was designated - that number may have been available for the 605 corridor.)

Other counterexamples abound; for example I-210 is signed as a loop, even though technically it is a spur, and at the time of its designation, all five odd x10 possibilities were available.  I think 210 may have been intended to rejoin 10 in the west - it certainly does parallel 10 for many miles. 

[PAHighways]

Just a curious question about I-376.  Why did it have an odd first number when it connected two interstates?  I76 connected to I-279 via I-376.  Now that its being extended, it makes perfect sense to have the 3 in front of 76.  Maybe it was always meant to be extended??

276, 476, and 676 were already being used and 876 had just been used for the Crosstown Boulevard just before I-376 was signed.  It could be said that I-376 was a spur into Pittsburgh considering at the time it was designated, I-279 basically ended at the same location.

[mightyace]

Across PA, I-476 crosses it's parent and then runs north on the Northeast Extension of the Pennsylvania Turnpike where it ends north of Scranton at I-81.  Looks like a spur to me, especially as it links three metropolitan areas (Philly, Allentown/Bethlehem/Easton, Wilkes-Barre/Scranton).  Actually, it really behaves more as a 2di, but what the heck would you number it?

A bit to the west in Ohio, you have I-271 which is an eastern beltway/bypass of Cleveland but it ends at I-90.  Though, this Lake Erie kinda prevents 271 from rejoining it's parent.  

Around Toledo, I-280 ends at I-75 on its north end not I-80.  But, it is a bypass around Toledo.

[Chris]

Actually, it really behaves more as a 2di, but what the heck would you number it?

That's the problem with these routes, like I-476, I-540 (AR), I-390 (NY), I-196, I-135 etc; somewhat too long or too rural for a 3-di, but too short for a 2-di.

[mightyace]

^^^
But we know what I-390 (NY) may become:

I-99! 

and at 129.61 miles I-476 is longer than several 2dis!

[vdeane]

An even 3di can be a bypass as well.  I-590 is another violation; it's not a spur (can be called either a loop or a bypass).

[agentsteel53]

what's the difference between a loop and a bypass?  I take it a loop is more a circle or semicircle (10 and 210 in Louisiana), while a bypass is approximately the same length as the road being bypassed?  (like 5 and 805)

[CMHroads]

In Columbus, I-270 south of I-70 is the official bypass while the northern (much longer) portion is a loop.  Officially the entire thing is called the outerbelt.  I-670 spurs from I-70 and does not return to I-70, but it does end at I-270, so I guess its even designation works.

[rickmastfan67]

Alright, I just got home today and I have a major update (with pictures) of the changes.   Still have to get the pictures off my camera and resize them for upload.  Will post them once that's all done.

[rickmastfan67]

Alright guys.  Here are the pictures.

We'll start off on NB I-79 @ the Noblestown Rd Interchange (Exit #57).  The 2 1/4 Miles advance sign that used to show I-279 North has now been converted over to show I-376 East.


Sign alerting people to follow I-376 Only (used to have both I-279 and I-376 shields) for US-22 & US-30 East.


Here are the last two signs before the ramp onto I-376 East.



I-376 EB (Former I-279 NB):

Here is the first set of standalone shields once you join the Inbound Parkway East to Downtown Pittsburgh.  Notice that something is missing from that pole that was just there less than 2 months ago...

(June '09:)


Here is the first new exit number you see on I-376 EB; Exit #65. (Former I-279 Exit #2)


Sign telling you where to go for the Mellon Arena and other things downtown.


The Standalone signs you see just after the Busway HOV only exit:


Exit #65:


1 3/4 Miles to Exit #67 (PA-121):


Shields you would see right before the Norfolk Southern RR Bridge:


More info about places to go in Downtown and what their exit numbers are:


Greentree Hill; PA-121; Exit #67:


Standalone shields after Greentree Exit:


1 Mile till US-19 & PA-51's exits; #69B & #69C:


3/4 Miles now:


Sign you see from the entering NB US-19:


Brand new configuration for the signs before you enter the Fort Pitt Tunnels:





And that is it.  Traffic was so bad tonight that we decided to bypass it via the West End Circle.  Hopefully, once they have fully finished redoing EB I-376's exit numbers, I can get the remaining ones till they get around to doing WB I-376.

Also, the ENTIRE Parkway West Inbound has been stripped on any I-279 signage except for mile markers and those little white signs.  Guess PennDOT thinks the public has it figured out already and took down the I-279 North shields.  However, the Outbound side still has all it's I-279 Exit numbers and BGS's at this time as well as standalone shields.


Enjoy!

[Alex]

Nice set of photos!

So unlike in other exit numbering resignings, we won't be faced with "old exit #" tabs for the next several years? That works for me.

Will Interstate 279's north departure from Interstate 376 be signed with an exit number?

How come some of the state route exits' shields have greenouts as well?

[PAHighways]

So unlike in other exit numbering resignings, we won't be faced with "old exit #" tabs for the next several years? That works for me.

There are still ones up from 2001!  District 11's press releases do mention "OLD EXIT" in reference to anything along 279.

Will Interstate 279's north departure from Interstate 376 be signed with an exit number?

70C

[rickmastfan67]

So unlike in other exit numbering resignings, we won't be faced with "old exit #" tabs for the next several years? That works for me.

Well, there wasn't any on the BGS or the Exit signs at this time.  However, there are a few tabs on the advance signage on the sides of the metal poles as you can see in this picture:

Will Interstate 279's north departure from Interstate 376 be signed with an exit number?

Look on the left in this picture:

How come some of the state route exits' shields have greenouts as well?

No idea why.

[Sykotyk]

What's nice about the renumbering of I-279 is that now the route makes sense going North/East (from Carnegie to Monroeville).

If you stay in the right lane through the Fort Pitt Tunnel, you'll stay on the same route (I-376). Before, to stay on I-279 meant you had to enter the Fort Pitt Tunnel in the left lane, and once on the Fort Pitt Bridge, had to move one lane over to the left to stay on I-279. Then, once I-279 departed I-376, you had to get over one more lane to the left to avoid exiting onto the 10th St Bypass.

No wonder I-79 was routed around the city. That bridge in morning rush hour is a horrible bottle neck (moreso than the tunnel) because of all the lane changing that must go on.

Sykotyk

[hbelkins]

One thing I've noticed about these signs is the greenouts. Pennsylvania must have the shields and lettering silk-screened or otherwise attached to the signs in such a way that they are not removable and must be covered up. If this was Kentucky, we'd be able to remove the old shields and lettering (i.e., I-279 North) and just replace with the new shields and lettering (i.e., I-376 East) without having to use greenouts.

I also noticed a couple of bubble shields in the set of new I-376 photos.

[PAHighways]

No wonder I-79 was routed around the city. That bridge in morning rush hour is a horrible bottle neck (moreso than the tunnel) because of all the lane changing that must go on.

The reason 79 and 279 were switched was mainly due to the fact 79 ended at the Point and there was no telling when/if the rest would be completed to Wexford.

[PAHighways]

The reason for the green-out on the Carnegie sign is that it used to read "50 WEST."

[Mr_Northside]

Since there weren't any pictures of any, I assume they haven't put up any new mile markers yet?

I was kind of surprised that a lot of the signs were just modified on the Parkway West.  Not that PennDOT should spend money on new signs when current ones will do... but it seems that they did just replace the majority of BGS's on the Parkway North for the re-numberings.

[CanesFan27]

I have a photo of when I-79 was still routed downtown...from a flooded Parkway East.

http://www.gribblenation.com/swparoads/newsphotos/79downtown70s.jpg

[rickmastfan67]

Since there weren't any pictures of any, I assume they haven't put up any new mile markers yet?

You're correct.  No new MM's have been posted yet.