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Author Topic: Interstate 11  (Read 227719 times)

vdeane

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #925 on: July 29, 2018, 09:27:46 PM »

Other than for continuity, there is no reason whatsoever for Grand Ave. southeast of the 303 to be numbered as anything.  The current route from the 303 to Wickenburg could be an extension of US 93. The section of US 60 west of Wickenburg could be an extension of AZ 74, which was its original number, BTW.  There'd be a 10-mile multiplex between Morristown and Wickenburg.  Or, the whole thing could be renumbered as AZ 60.  They could do that today.  Once I-11 is built, and if it's along Grand Ave., then US 93 would be decommissioned statewide, including this stretch.
What does the numbering of Grand Avenue have to do with anything I said at all?  I was pointing out the absurdity of diverting all the way down I-10 to Arizona's proposed location for I-11 over taking the existing route.

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And no, the northern section of what is now the 303 (Grand to I-17) will not be numbered I-211 if the southern section does become I-11.  ADOT doesn't use 3DIs, and haven't done so, either actually signed (I-510, the I-10 to Buckeye Rd. section of the current AZ 51) or planned (I-710 in Tucson) for close to 50 years.  They'll probably leave it as 303.
Just because they haven't seen any need for 3dis doesn't mean they're banned or anything.  I'd say, that if I-11 did go down AZ 303, that the section it didn't go down would be a glaring gap in the interstate system and thus SHOULD be an interstate (if I-11 went that way).  I'm pretty sure there was also an official proposal for a 3di near I-19 if I-11 went there as well.
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Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

SSR_317

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #926 on: August 06, 2018, 05:30:11 PM »

Makes more sense to keep it on Grand Avenue.  To Loop 101 most likely.  To go any farther into Phoenix would take decades, although it would be a long term worthy goal.
No freeway will ever make it SE down Grand Ave all the way to Loop 101. The reason? Two words: Sun City. And one acronym: NIMBY!!!

Terminating at Loop 303 would be sufficient.
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Zonie

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #927 on: August 06, 2018, 06:17:55 PM »

And the railroad.

That's why you have a left exit now at Bell.
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Sonic99

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #928 on: August 07, 2018, 02:38:48 AM »

And the railroad.

That's why you have a left exit now at Bell.

Yep. Grand was initially planned on being a full freeway from 17 all the way up to at least the 101 in the initial 1985 plans, but the costs of acquiring the right of way and the construction that would have been required killed those plans. Instead, we got the pseudo-interchanges where one of the three intersecting roads were elevated or depressed away from the other two. That is as close as we will ever get inside the 303 now that the Bell interchange is complete.
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Henry

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #929 on: August 07, 2018, 11:05:19 AM »

Makes more sense to keep it on Grand Avenue.  To Loop 101 most likely.  To go any farther into Phoenix would take decades, although it would be a long term worthy goal.   
I agree with that statement! I-17 would be a much better connection than I-10 far west of there. I mean, they can build the Hassayampa if they want, but I-11 ought to end in Phoenix.
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sparker

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #930 on: August 07, 2018, 01:40:59 PM »

Makes more sense to keep it on Grand Avenue.  To Loop 101 most likely.  To go any farther into Phoenix would take decades, although it would be a long term worthy goal.   
I agree with that statement! I-17 would be a much better connection than I-10 far west of there. I mean, they can build the Hassayampa if they want, but I-11 ought to end in Phoenix.

IMO, the Hassayampa is simply a "developmental" corridor, designed to provide a place along which to put housing and any associated commercial development.  That, and the prospects for extension SE into the Maricopa area, where it is intended to fulfill much the same role, are the only reasons why it's being seriously considered for I-11 to begin with.  Ideally, I-11 would simply head SE parallel to Grand Ave. down to Loop 303 and then utilize that route south to I-10.  The portion of the Hassayampa south of I-10 could become a x10 PHX metro bypass (needed).  But that combined scenario probably won't happen; PHX still functions as a metro area politically and economically geared toward constant expansion; outer loops like the Hassayampa are merely tools to be used toward this end.   
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Interstate 69 Fan

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #931 on: August 09, 2018, 11:10:25 AM »

Opening Day  :D
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Roadwarriors79

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #932 on: August 09, 2018, 04:14:29 PM »

Opening Day  :D

Great for Nevada. Now what is Arizona going to do to speed up any of the remaining widening projects for current US 93? Is Kingman going to be the next bad chokepoint (going southbound)?
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howlincoyote2k1

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #933 on: August 09, 2018, 06:15:42 PM »

Opening Day  :D

Great for Nevada. Now what is Arizona going to do to speed up any of the remaining widening projects for current US 93? Is Kingman going to be the next bad chokepoint (going southbound)?

I would like that to be Arizona's next big project, probably moreso than widening the remainder of US 93. That intersection is a simple diamond and woefully underpowered. However, there's just a lot of obstacles and development in the way that makes that complicated, so this will probably be the toughest stretch of I-11 Arizona would have to build.
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sparker

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #934 on: August 09, 2018, 06:24:16 PM »

Opening Day  :D

Great for Nevada. Now what is Arizona going to do to speed up any of the remaining widening projects for current US 93? Is Kingman going to be the next bad chokepoint (going southbound)?

I would like that to be Arizona's next big project, probably moreso than widening the remainder of US 93. That intersection is a simple diamond and woefully underpowered. However, there's just a lot of obstacles and development in the way that makes that complicated, so this will probably be the toughest stretch of I-11 Arizona would have to build.

The last I heard the option west of US 93 and connecting with I-40 about a mile west of the present 40/93 NB interchange, was the preferred choice with both locals and AZDOT; it would essentially leave the businesses along present US 93 intact (a sticking point with a closer-in connection).  This would connect with the existing short freeway section of US 93 that included the AZ 68 interchange. 
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howlincoyote2k1

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #935 on: August 10, 2018, 03:18:23 PM »

That might be the way to go. It would look a bit strange on a map. The only thing is, even west (south?) of the Beale St interchange on I-40, the terrain is still very rugged and the road is still lined with steep cliffs that will need to be blown out...and if you go further south than more than a mile or two, it starts to be a bit too far out of the way to have any kind of benefit.

I'm really interested to see how ADOT works this out.
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kdk

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #936 on: August 10, 2018, 04:38:50 PM »

Opening Day  :D

Great for Nevada. Now what is Arizona going to do to speed up any of the remaining widening projects for current US 93? Is Kingman going to be the next bad chokepoint (going southbound)?

I would like that to be Arizona's next big project, probably moreso than widening the remainder of US 93. That intersection is a simple diamond and woefully underpowered. However, there's just a lot of obstacles and development in the way that makes that complicated, so this will probably be the toughest stretch of I-11 Arizona would have to build.

It's already been a choke point for several years now.  I drive it about once per month and particularly the northbound route is the worst.  Over any heavy travel time like holiday weekends there are signs on I-40 westbound saying "US 93 heavy traffic ahead, expect delays".  What seems to happen is the northbound 93 exit off of  WB 40 backs up because of the stoplight at 93/Beale St.  In addition, the first couple of gas stations on the east side of 93 get full and vehicles (particularly large RV's) will back up into the road trying to get in to line up for gas.

SB actually isn't as bad, unless there is an accident along Beale which happens often, then it's a disaster.
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SSR_317

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #937 on: August 10, 2018, 05:51:26 PM »

That might be the way to go. It would look a bit strange on a map. The only thing is, even west (south?) of the Beale St interchange on I-40, the terrain is still very rugged and the road is still lined with steep cliffs that will need to be blown out...and if you go further south than more than a mile or two, it starts to be a bit too far out of the way to have any kind of benefit.

I'm really interested to see how ADOT works this out.
They have already done the preliminary work on the routing/design for this junction. I have some of the documents, if you have specific questions I might be able to answer a few of them based on those plans.
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SSR_317

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #938 on: August 10, 2018, 05:54:55 PM »

Opening Day  :D

Great for Nevada. Now what is Arizona going to do to speed up any of the remaining widening projects for current US 93? Is Kingman going to be the next bad chokepoint (going southbound)?

I would like that to be Arizona's next big project, probably moreso than widening the remainder of US 93. That intersection is a simple diamond and woefully underpowered. However, there's just a lot of obstacles and development in the way that makes that complicated, so this will probably be the toughest stretch of I-11 Arizona would have to build.
If ADOT were INDOT, they would leave it to LAST simply BECAUSE it is the toughest and most expensive to do. But I concur, it needs to be done ASAP! Been over a decade now since I've driven through that particular interchange, and it was bad even back then.
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DJStephens

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #939 on: August 10, 2018, 06:16:47 PM »

And the railroad.

That's why you have a left exit now at Bell.

Yep. Grand was initially planned on being a full freeway from 17 all the way up to at least the 101 in the initial 1985 plans, but the costs of acquiring the right of way and the construction that would have been required killed those plans. Instead, we got the pseudo-interchanges where one of the three intersecting roads were elevated or depressed away from the other two. That is as close as we will ever get inside the 303 now that the Bell interchange is complete.

So there was actual planning for a full blown freeway along the corridor (Grand) after the 1985 sales tax passage?   Guessing the only way it could have been done would have been via whole sale acquisition and clearance, along the east side of existing Grand Ave.  And then using the pre-existing avenue and the acquired strip, to construct a full blown facility with frontages.   How it could have (and where) connected to the older Black Canyon Fwy (I-17) in a dense industrial environment is something else to ponder. 
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sparker

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #940 on: August 10, 2018, 06:22:56 PM »

If ADOT were INDOT, they would leave it to LAST simply BECAUSE it is the toughest and most expensive to do. But I concur, it needs to be done ASAP! Been over a decade now since I've driven through that particular interchange, and it was bad even back then.

And if it were Caltrans, they'd build I-11 down to within 1/4 mile of I-40 and stick a wide diamond there with plans to build flyovers later.  One thing about AZDOT -- if they can avoid taking improved properties, they'll do so, even if it means a slightly longer or out-of-the-way alignment; they figure less political blowback that way.  So anything directly down Beale or close to it wouldn't likely make it to the final round of options.  Hey, if they can participate in the type of construction required for the approaches to the O'Callaghan/Tillman bridge, blasting a few rocks or bridging/diverting a couple of gullies won't pose much of an issue!   
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Roadwarriors79

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #941 on: August 12, 2018, 02:27:57 AM »

I'd like to see ADOT put any I-11 plans south of Casa Grande on hold for now. Focus on the I-40/US 93 Kingman connection, 4-laning US 93 south of I-40, and a route from the Wickenburg area to either I-10 or Loop 303. Also maybe make use of SR 85 between I-8 and I-10. If it doesn't become part of the I-11 corridor, it still makes sense as an overall Phoenix freeway bypass of I-10.
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DJStephens

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #942 on: August 12, 2018, 09:35:41 AM »

Might be better to focus on repairing and upgrading EXISTING Interstate mileage in the state.   Before any wild plans to extend 11 south of 10 to anywhere.   (Mainly referring to Interstate 10 east of Tucson's downtown - Exit 262 to Exit 281).   Just my opinion.   
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Roadwarriors79

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #943 on: August 12, 2018, 12:53:42 PM »

Might be better to focus on repairing and upgrading EXISTING Interstate mileage in the state.   Before any wild plans to extend 11 south of 10 to anywhere.   (Mainly referring to Interstate 10 east of Tucson's downtown - Exit 262 to Exit 281).   Just my opinion.

The only plans I've seen recently regarding I-10 east of I-19 have to do with the possible SR 210 extension. I'm not sure if ADOT has plans to widen I-10 that would happen regardless of what happens with SR 210.

https://www.azdot.gov/planning/transportation-studies/i-10-and-sr-210-feasibility-study
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bing101

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Re: Interstate 11
« Reply #944 on: August 13, 2018, 05:41:41 PM »


Rockersk08 does a shot on I-11.
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