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Author Topic: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana  (Read 908988 times)

sparker

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Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
« Reply #3000 on: November 19, 2018, 03:48:45 AM »

The distance from St Louis to Cincinnati via Indianapolis on I-70 and 74 is 350 miles.

The distance from St Louis to Cincinnati via Louisville on I-64 and I-71 is 359 miles.

I would never have guessed the Indy route was shorter. To me, it seems like you're going too far north to head back south.

The southward multiplex with I-57 in IL plus the relatively sharp angle (pretty close to 45 degrees) of I-71 vis-a-vis a straight E-W line -- plus the N-S multiplex with I-75 -- likely accounts for the southern corridor showing greater actual mileage.  Both I-70 and I-74 approach Indianapolis at a shallow angle, so the additional mileage of that particular composite corridor is minimized. 
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edwaleni

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Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
« Reply #3001 on: November 19, 2018, 12:20:06 PM »

In the Illinois thread there is a small discussion on the Ilinois US50 Coalition to 4 lane it from O'Fallon to Vincennes.

But there are only 2 active EA's. The Vincennes side of US50 is looking to 4 lane all the way west to Olney for a Walmart Distribution Center at IL-130.

And yes US50 in Illinois has had the same broken promises as Indiana since 1977 when Illinois started cancelling contracts and any future work.

As for US50 mileage from Cincy to StL, most of that is mileage on a 1928 based ROW, which is very indirect and circuitous and does not enjoy the more direct routing most interstates enjoy.

Just between Seymour and Washington, you can see huge economies of distance possible.
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hbelkins

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Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
« Reply #3002 on: November 19, 2018, 12:44:07 PM »

Has anyone else here driven that section of US 50 in Illinois where the grading is done for a four-lane route, and there are actually bridges along that segment, but only two lanes are being used?
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SW Indiana

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Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
« Reply #3003 on: November 19, 2018, 02:05:37 PM »

Has anyone else here driven that section of US 50 in Illinois where the grading is done for a four-lane route, and there are actually bridges along that segment, but only two lanes are being used?

Yes, I've driven it a handful of times. Interesting to see the bridges just sitting there, with no pavement leading up to them.
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SSR_317

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Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
« Reply #3004 on: November 19, 2018, 02:32:39 PM »

I think it's kind of funny how Exit 50 on I-65 in Indiana is the exit for US-50.
There's two more of those (where exit number matches the intersecting highway's number) up in Indy, both along I-465: Exit 31 is for US 31 North (at Meridian St) and Exit 37 for Indiana 37 & "Classic" I-69 North (at the northern terminus of Binford Blvd). Wasn't planned that way, just sorta happened due to the various alignments chosen for the multiple segments that made up I-465 when it was being built in the 1960s.
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ilpt4u

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Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
« Reply #3005 on: November 19, 2018, 03:35:03 PM »

Has anyone else here driven that section of US 50 in Illinois where the grading is done for a four-lane route, and there are actually bridges along that segment, but only two lanes are being used?
I have...

Kinda looks like a "we got started...and we just walked away" project...decades ago
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qguy

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Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
« Reply #3006 on: November 19, 2018, 04:11:47 PM »

Has anyone else here driven that section of US 50 in Illinois where the grading is done for a four-lane route, and there are actually bridges along that segment, but only two lanes are being used?
I have...

Kinda looks like a "we got started...and we just walked away" project...decades ago

Like the Goat Path in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania.
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sparker

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Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
« Reply #3007 on: November 19, 2018, 06:16:59 PM »

Has anyone else here driven that section of US 50 in Illinois where the grading is done for a four-lane route, and there are actually bridges along that segment, but only two lanes are being used?
I have...

Kinda looks like a "we got started...and we just walked away" project...decades ago

Like the Goat Path in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania.

Prior to the southern realignment of that route in the early '60's, the original path of I-64 was slated to utilize US 50 from East St. Louis into Indiana, then veer SE along US 150 to reach Louisville, KY.  Whether the now-abandoned bridges were meant to be part of that project or simply an in-state improvement to US 50 has been the subject of conjecture; IIRC there was a thread about it here that was active a few years back. 
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edwaleni

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Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
« Reply #3008 on: November 19, 2018, 08:03:17 PM »

Has anyone else here driven that section of US 50 in Illinois where the grading is done for a four-lane route, and there are actually bridges along that segment, but only two lanes are being used?
I have...

Kinda looks like a "we got started...and we just walked away" project...decades ago

Like the Goat Path in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania.

Prior to the southern realignment of that route in the early '60's, the original path of I-64 was slated to utilize US 50 from East St. Louis into Indiana, then veer SE along US 150 to reach Louisville, KY.  Whether the now-abandoned bridges were meant to be part of that project or simply an in-state improvement to US 50 has been the subject of conjecture; IIRC there was a thread about it here that was active a few years back.

The original I-64 was going to follow the old Buffalo Trace (US-150) to Louisville.

But as Wikipedia notes:

Quote
I-64 had a proposed routing around the US 50 corridor in Illinois when the interstates were first planned. Local pressure pushed the routing closer to the US 460 corridor because of the cheaper cost and shorter mileage compared to the original routing, but not before construction was started on a short section that is now US-50 between Vincennes, Indiana and Lawrenceville, Illinois. It is also worth noting that the apparent route of I-64 would have taken it through the southern end of Carlyle Lake which was also under construction at this time.
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Life in Paradise

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Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
« Reply #3009 on: November 24, 2018, 01:50:26 PM »

Drove the I-69 corridor from Evansville to Indianapolis and back last night.  The drive is getting better every year.  My own observations:
1.  I'm looking for the options to continue driving on part of 37 when Martinsville's section is closed.  There should be a way to go
     around to drive on the rest of it for awhile.
2.  Even though the consortium did not finish their work, I'm glad that they contributed to the six lanes of I-69 going around
     Bloomington.  It shouldn't have been any other way.
3.  Time to put the mileage signs up south of Bloomington.  We already know how far it will be to Indianapolis, and Evansville
     isn't planning on moving anytime soon.
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truejd

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Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
« Reply #3010 on: November 25, 2018, 02:07:53 AM »

Anyone know when the directional signs on the southern end will have Indianapolis or Bloomington listed as a control city for I-69 north. Drove through Evansville on Thanksgiving and noticed the signs are still blank.
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csw

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Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
« Reply #3011 on: November 25, 2018, 11:10:01 AM »

Anyone know when the directional signs on the southern end will have Indianapolis or Bloomington listed as a control city for I-69 north. Drove through Evansville on Thanksgiving and noticed the signs are still blank.

I'd imagine the control will be Indianapolis and they will remain blank until it's finished all the way to I-465.
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Interstate 69 Fan

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Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
« Reply #3012 on: November 26, 2018, 11:31:37 AM »

Anyone know when the directional signs on the southern end will have Indianapolis or Bloomington listed as a control city for I-69 north. Drove through Evansville on Thanksgiving and noticed the signs are still blank.

I'd imagine the control will be Indianapolis and they will remain blank until it's finished all the way to I-465.
It’ll probably be Bloomington on Section 1-4, and Indianapolis on Section 5.
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Apparently I’m a fan of I-69.  Who knew.

tdindy88

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Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
« Reply #3013 on: November 26, 2018, 12:05:19 PM »

I remember looking at signage plans for Section 1 several years ago when they were about ready to build it. There was one I-69 BGS over one of the highways that had the word Indianapolis written in a ghost-kind of writing on the sign where the control city would go, indicating that it would be added later on. The signs should all be designed at a width where Indianapolis can simply be added on when they feel like doing it.

Section 5 has no problem with signs indicating Indianapolis and Evansville are control cities. Of course I can see INDOT justifying having signage with Indianapolis off along Section 5 since SR 37 does go there whereas I-69 does not. Evansville of course is mentioned due to I-69 going that way.

Of course I don't see why we can't put Indy on all the signs from Evansville up to Bloomington now. Honestly I'm just happy to see mileage signs along that stretch of I-69, maybe it's a sign of things to come.

On another matter. I don't get to Evansville all but once or twice a year but I was kind of curious from those who live or travel around there. Is there any need to widen I-69 around that city, I'm just wondering. Maybe the traffic counts too low but if we're going to have I-69 in Bloomington be six lanes, why not Evansville?
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civeng

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Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
« Reply #3014 on: November 26, 2018, 02:03:49 PM »

On another matter. I don't get to Evansville all but once or twice a year but I was kind of curious from those who live or travel around there. Is there any need to widen I-69 around that city, I'm just wondering. Maybe the traffic counts too low but if we're going to have I-69 in Bloomington be six lanes, why not Evansville?

During rush hour I sometimes wish there was an extra lane south of I-64.  Otherwise, it's usually okay.

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ilpt4u

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Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
« Reply #3015 on: November 27, 2018, 12:18:07 AM »

Drove the I-69 corridor from Evansville to Indianapolis and back last night.  The drive is getting better every year.  My own observations:
1.  I'm looking for the options to continue driving on part of 37 when Martinsville's section is closed.  There should be a way to go
     around to drive on the rest of it for awhile.
2.  Even though the consortium did not finish their work, I'm glad that they contributed to the six lanes of I-69 going around
     Bloomington.  It shouldn't have been any other way.
3.  Time to put the mileage signs up south of Bloomington.  We already know how far it will be to Indianapolis, and Evansville
     isn't planning on moving anytime soon.
I just drove it Southbound today, coming back to Southern IL after Thanksgiving north of Indy (wanted to drive a different route back...took I-57 to I-70 on the Northbound trip...and now I have clinched all of current I-69 in Indiana)

I don’t drive it enough for 1. to be an issues for me.

2. We will never know how the project and timeline would have played, had it been built, totally, as a “traditional” INDOT build. That said, all the lights gone south of Martinsville into Bloomington is nice.

3. A Southbound mileage sign in Bloomington still has the 37 mileage, with mileage to Bedford and Mitchell, and there is also a new mileage sign in Bloomington, that has Mileage to (I think) IN 445, Washington, and Evansville. But south of Bloomington, I did not see any. That said, since it is Southbound on an Interstate, and Evansville is a State Line City...your Mileage Markers are your mileage gude to Evansville

There is an oddball, mislabeled BGS approaching the Trumpet Split of 69/37 south of Bloomington...with the Evansville controlled sign having both 69 and 37 South Shields, and the Bedford controlled sign having only a 37 South Shield...that could be a bit confusing. Hopefully the erroneous 37 Shield gets removed

I also think “To I-69 South” or “Future I-69 South” should be signed in Indy at this point, both at the NE corner end of original I-69 and also approaching the IN 37 Exit off I-465 on the SW corner - or go the IDOT route, and sign, at both the NE Corner I-69 end and approaching IN 37 Exit off I-465 “Evansville - Follow IN 37 South” (a la IDOT’s solution for I-24 never making it to control St Louis)

“To I-69 South” should also be signed at the current Indiana Southern Terminus of I-69, at US 41 in Evansville. The only signage there is “I-69 Ends” - not wrong, but its OK to mention it resumes south of Henderson, KY
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 12:23:55 AM by ilpt4u »
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EngineerTM

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Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
« Reply #3016 on: November 28, 2018, 04:16:35 PM »

Anyone know when the directional signs on the southern end will have Indianapolis or Bloomington listed as a control city for I-69 north. Drove through Evansville on Thanksgiving and noticed the signs are still blank.

I'd imagine the control will be Indianapolis and they will remain blank until it's finished all the way to I-465.
It’ll probably be Bloomington on Section 1-4, and Indianapolis on Section 5.

I doubt it, if history and precedence is any indication.  Indiana identifies "Indianapolis" as its control city on all of its interstates that run through it (Indianapolis); the only exception is I-64, which uses St. Louis and Louisville as its control cities.  For example, along I-65, the control cities (from north to south) are Chicago, Indianapolis, and Louisville.  Along I-70, the control cities (from west to east) are St. Louis, Indianapolis, and Dayton.  For the northeastern part of I-69, the control cities are Indianapolis and Fort Wayne.  Once the southwestern section of I-69 is complete (or having most of Section 6 either complete or substantially so), I think that it will be a high probability that INDOT will use Evansville and Indianapolis as the control cities, without using Bloomington as a intermediate control city.  Until then, I fully expect that INDOT will keep the control city information blank on all NB I-69 signs, as they currently are.
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EngineerTM

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Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
« Reply #3017 on: November 28, 2018, 04:26:38 PM »

On another matter. I don't get to Evansville all but once or twice a year but I was kind of curious from those who live or travel around there. Is there any need to widen I-69 around that city, I'm just wondering. Maybe the traffic counts too low but if we're going to have I-69 in Bloomington be six lanes, why not Evansville?

During rush hour I sometimes wish there was an extra lane south of I-64.  Otherwise, it's usually okay.

I would agree with that assessment; generally, the two lanes NB and SB on I-69 in and around Evansville seems to provide sufficient capacity for now.  This could (and may) change once the I-69/ORX bridge project is completed and fully links I-69 between Evansville and the Kentucky sections.

If Evansville could get its wishes granted, I suspect that having added travel lanes on US 41 from around the airport and southward towards Henderson (along with getting rid of some of those traffic signals), and having some grade-separation interchanges built along the East Lloyd expressway (IN 66) would be more important to Evansville area drivers.  About a decade or so ago, INDOT did have a project under planning that would have added travel lanes on US 41 from around the airport and southward, along with adding storage capacity for left and right turn lanes, that would have greatly improved traffic capacity.  Unfortunately, the great recession hit and former Governor Daniels pulled the plug on a bunch of projects, including that one.
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csw

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Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
« Reply #3018 on: November 28, 2018, 06:26:01 PM »

Anyone know when the directional signs on the southern end will have Indianapolis or Bloomington listed as a control city for I-69 north. Drove through Evansville on Thanksgiving and noticed the signs are still blank.

I'd imagine the control will be Indianapolis and they will remain blank until it's finished all the way to I-465.
It’ll probably be Bloomington on Section 1-4, and Indianapolis on Section 5.

I doubt it, if history and precedence is any indication.  Indiana identifies "Indianapolis" as its control city on all of its interstates that run through it (Indianapolis); the only exception is I-64, which uses St. Louis and Louisville as its control cities.  For example, along I-65, the control cities (from north to south) are Chicago, Indianapolis, and Louisville.  Along I-70, the control cities (from west to east) are St. Louis, Indianapolis, and Dayton.  For the northeastern part of I-69, the control cities are Indianapolis and Fort Wayne.  Once the southwestern section of I-69 is complete (or having most of Section 6 either complete or substantially so), I think that it will be a high probability that INDOT will use Evansville and Indianapolis as the control cities, without using Bloomington as a intermediate control city.  Until then, I fully expect that INDOT will keep the control city information blank on all NB I-69 signs, as they currently are.
I agree 100% with everything said here. Bloomington won't be on the signs for the same reasons Lafayette or Columbus aren't on signs on I-65.
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tdindy88

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Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
« Reply #3019 on: November 28, 2018, 09:35:12 PM »

Considering that the control cities at the Sample Road interchange, well within Monroe County are only Indianapolis and Evansville we probably already have the answer.
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Captain Jack

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Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
« Reply #3020 on: November 29, 2018, 12:33:42 AM »

Considering that the control cities at the Sample Road interchange, well within Monroe County are only Indianapolis and Evansville we probably already have the answer.

Yes, and also Evansville is used as the control between Martinsville and Bloomington, instead of Bloomington. If Bloomington was going to be a control instead of Indianapolis, it would certainly be used instead of Evansville as well.
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ITB

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Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
« Reply #3021 on: November 29, 2018, 02:36:33 AM »

It's been talked about before but now it's here. Section 6 will formally commence when the first contract is let on December 12, 2018, just two weeks away. To rehash, under that contract, which will be the smaller of the two for Segment 1 of Section 6 (aka the Martinsville segment), an overpass and new and extended local access, or frontage, roads are to be built. Construction is expected to commence in the spring of 2019. In June of 2019, the second of the two Martinsville contracts—the "big" one—will be let, with heavy construction getting underway by either late fall in 2019 or early spring 2020.

Apart from Segment 5, which will encompass the new I-495/I-69 interchange, Segment 1 may be the most complex and challenging component of Section 6 to be constructed. Upgrading State Road 37 through Martinsville will involve significantly building up the mainline roadway in stretches and lowering it in another. SR 37 will remain open to traffic during the 2020 construction season, but will be closed completely, as is now commonly known, during the 2021 construction season, for a period of about eight to 10 months.

While the impending closure of SR 37 in 2021 is bound to make some people anxious, including probably a good number of INDOT officials, for it can only be surmised how the traffic situation will play out, INDOT has be charged with getting this project completed, in timely fashion, segment after segment, and that they intend to do. INDOT was embarrassed when the private-public partnership building Section 5 floundered and then failed, causing a delay of two years to the completion of Section 5. Because of that experience it's almost a guarantee INDOT will strenuously endeavor to bring off the construction of Section 6 in a systematic, high-performance manner of which it can, and all Hoosiers, be proud. Nothing less will be acceptable, particularly to INDOT. Yes, there is bound to traffic congestion at times, sometimes significant, adding several minutes if not more to commutes and other trips. How can there not be? By any standard, upgrading approximately 23 miles of SR 37 to interstate standards is major project, made all the more difficult due to the necessity of construction happening concurrently, for the most part, in and among free flowing traffic. It may look pretty when viewed on conceptual diagrams, but, in reality, the upgrade will be a time consuming, challenging build that often will involve complex and difficult engineering aspects that few understand and appreciate.

Earlier, there was some hand wringing whether building I-69 has been worth the trouble and cost. As one who has lived in South-Central Indiana for many years, I am deeply appreciative the State of Indiana has invested in building the Evansville to Indianapolis leg of I-69, and am thrilled the project is now approaching its culmination. It's been a long time coming. Interstate 69 is now the most important road in the south-central/south-western sector of Indiana; it is a tremendous infrastructure asset, providing for the safe and efficient movement of people and goods, which, more than likely, will prove its worth time and again with each passing decade. To be sure, there's still about six years of construction to go. But considering how long it has taken for the project to evolve from dream to reality, six years isn't all that long.

Of note, it appears the construction of I-69 in Indiana may have created a spark in other cities and states to upgrade highways to interstate standards, furthering the connection of mid-sized and large metropolitan areas to other metropolitan hubs. In Texas, for example, it's hard to envision US 290 not being upgraded to an interstate between Houston and Austin. Out west in Idaho, if the Boise region continues its rapid growth, there's bound to be a push for an interstate south from Boise to I-80. And, at some point, an interstate probably will be built connecting Reno to Las Vegas. In the Midwest, having an interstate connection between Chicago and Columbus, Ohio, linking in Fort Wayne, might, at some point, be deemed worthy. And that's just to point out a few possibilities, among many. The population of the United States continues to steadily grow. And, or course, more people generally equates to more cars, which dictates that more roads and more lanes miles be built. The Interstate Highway building era of the 1950s/60s and 70s may have long passed, but the upgrading of roads and highways to Interstate standard may only gain momentum in the years ahead.

Edit: typo correction/minor changes for readability

« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 09:17:21 PM by ITB »
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SSR_317

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Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
« Reply #3022 on: November 29, 2018, 04:57:16 PM »

...  For the northeastern part of I-69, the control cities are Indianapolis and Fort Wayne.
Along original (or "classic") I-69 in Indiana, the control cities are indeed Indianapolis and Fort Wayne, but only between those two cities. North of the Summit City to the MI state line, the control cities are Fort Wayne and Lansing.

... I also think “To I-69 South” or “Future I-69 South” should be signed in Indy at this point, both at the NE corner end of original I-69 and also approaching the IN 37 Exit off I-465 on the SW corner - or go the IDOT route, and sign, at both the NE Corner I-69 end and approaching IN 37 Exit off I-465 “Evansville - Follow IN 37 South” (a la IDOT’s solution for I-24 never making it to control St Louis)...
I'm sure that when the I-465, I-69, & Binford Blvd interchange is totally rebuilt in a project scheduled to begin in the next couple of years, the replacement signage will be designed to allow for the future continuation of I-69 South along I-465 clockwise from the NE side to the SW side of Indy (SIU #2 of the entire national project). I seriously doubt that INDOT will spend the money to do any more any sooner.
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edwaleni

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Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
« Reply #3023 on: November 30, 2018, 11:01:31 AM »

I am looking forward to that mileage sign in Port Huron, MI that says:

Indianapolis, IN - 349 Miles | 561 Km
Houston, TX - 1364 Miles | 2195 Km
McAllen, TX - 1706 Miles | 2745 Km
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ITB

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Re: Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana
« Reply #3024 on: December 12, 2018, 03:05:22 PM »

The bids for the first construction contract (#R -40848-A) of Section 6 were opened today. Walsh Construction's bid of $21,282,604.13 was the lowest submitted. Walsh beat out Milestone Contractors LP who bid $21,737,000.00, and Crider & Crider, which followed with a bid of $22,178,618.02. The other bidders were White Construction, Inc. and Gradex, Inc. At this time, the bid results are unofficial, but will be finalized tomorrow. Since the INDOT engineering estimate came in at $26,278,915.70, it is almost a certainty the contract will be awarded to Walsh Construction, the low bidder.

Contract #R -40848-A is the first of two contracts for Segment 1 of Section 6, the Martinsville segment. It comprises building a new overpass over SR 37 connecting South Street in Martinsville proper to Grand Valley Blvd., extending Grand Valley Blvd. to Cramertown Loop, and constructing a new road, Artesian Avenue, between Mahalasville Road and Grand Valley Blvd. Work is expected in get underway next spring.

Here's the link to INDOT's unofficial bid results for the lettings of December 12. The results for Contract #R -40848-A are found on page 20.

https://www.in.gov/dot/div/contracts/letting/archive/2018/dec12/Apparent_dec12.pdf

Edit: minor grammar/wording
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 05:26:03 PM by ITB »
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