Clinching Highways and Re-alignment

[vdeane]

How do people count re-alignments with regard to clinching highways, ie, when a highway is re-aligned after clinching.  My current thoughts are to keep the segment counted if the new alignment can largely be seen from the old one or if I can see a video of the new one, but I'm not sure if this is the correct way to handle it.  How do you guys handle it?  There are three segments in particular I'm concerned about:
-I-95 and I-195 in Providence, RI: my last (and only) trip here was during a family vacation to Boston several years before the Iway project.
-US 15/future I-99 in NY: the alignment here is mostly visible from the current road, though it's on a different elevation.
-NY 17/future I-86 in Parksville, NY: looks like the alignment change will be pretty big (though not as big as Iway) and there's a pretty good chance I'll be in this area within the next month.

[english si]

I see it as route clinching, rather than road clinching to some extent, but also have a mental "I've not done that actual road"

My clinched highways mapping .list file is accurate as to the routes I've traveled, but there are a couple of places where realignments and upgrades will mean that it's not fully accurate to the roads I've traveled.

The first one I'll say is the E604 in France - I've clinched about as much as I say I've clinched there, however since I clinched it back in the 90s, the A85 opened and the whole thing takes a different route - I claim the E604 clinched, but not the A85 (though the concurrency detector means that I get given the bit of A85).
The second one is the E05 - which will be worse next week, when I move it in the Glasgow area onto the new M74 - I've clinched it (in the UK) between Southampton and the Erskine Bridge, but when I did it, the bit between Carlisle and the Scottish Border was A74 and not M6 as it is now - the M6 was partially online, and partially offline upgrades, but I don't claim it, but do claim the E05 (and there's a similar situation on the E15/A1 corridor).
The third one is US93 and the Hoover Dam bypass - this is the only other realignment I have, and it's not concurrent with anything, but I claim it (partially as I'm waiting to add the road over the dam, partially out of laziness).

[mightyace]

I generally count a road as "unclinched" when the alignment changes.

I assume you're not talking about extensions like I-376 in PA.  I had this route clinched when it ran from the turnpike to downtown Pittsburgh, but not now.

[Duke87]

I don't really have a steadfast rule. I take this sort of thing on a case by case basis and just go with whatever seems to make sense. Ultimately this means that whether or not a segment needs to be reclinched depends subjectively on how significant the realignment is. Certainly if the old road is still a numbered highway I would claim to have clinched that rather than the new alignment.

[hbelkins]

My rule is that if I am traveling the road as it exists when I travel it, I consider it clinched. I typically clinch routes in segments. Once it's clinched, I don't consider it unclenched unless the route number is extended from a terminus over a new alignment that I have not driven.

For instance: at the time I clinched US 50 in West Virginia by driving from Clarksburg to the Virginia state line, the new Blennerhassett Bridge in Parkersburg was not yet open. When that bridge opened and US 50 was routed across it, I did not consider US 50 in WV "unclenched" because I had clinched it as it existed at the time I was driving it.

Similarly, US 35 in WV. I drove the old alignment from US 60 to the Ohio River. Several years later the new alignment was built from I-64 to the "Toyota Bridge" across the Kanawha River at Buffalo. I did not consider US 35 to be "unclenched" although I did end up driving the new segment.

However, if the road had been extended, say, on a new alignment from I-64 over to US 119 (Corridor G) I would consider the route unclenched and I would need to go drive this new route to clinch it. But if, say, the route number was extended across existing WV 34 and WV 3 (roads I've previously driven) to end at US 119, I would still count it as clinched. (But I'd probably want to drive it again to get photos of the new signage).

[Alps]

Renumberings: I have never driven the Maine Turnpike. I drove free I-95 when it was still on what's now I-295, and I've driven all of what's now I-95 outside those limits, so I consider I-95 to be clinched, but I make a note that it's the former alignment. Even though I believe I can also claim I-495 to be clinched (current alignment), I would not claim Maine's highway system to be clinched until I do the Maine Tpk. (which ain't happenin, either of those). I count myself as having clinched I-376 because I drove it pre-extension and I'm not a supporter of the extension - but I've now made a note regarding that as well.

New alignments: Depends on the scope. For a new bridge, I would consider it still clinched unless there's a substantial new alignment in place. What consitutes "substantial" or a "signficant" deviation from the existing alignment is all in my head. Upgrading to freeway, such as US 220 to what's now I-99, would count as substantial. If a few more miles of Highway 69 are dualized and renamed Highway 400 in Ontario, I'm not de-listing my clinch.

[agentsteel53]

I consider having US-6 clinched, despite my not having driven the post-1947 alignment in some cases.

[Dr Frankenstein]

I consider physical stretches as clinched. This means that when QC-236 (which I currently have at 100%) will be realigned next year, I'll have to drive the new alignment in order to consider it as clinched again, but the then-unnumbered Chemin Saint-Louis will not need to be redriven unless major changes happen to it.

When A-30 was realigned and the old alignment renumbered A-730, I had to clinch the new alignment, and I considered A-730 as "clinched but need to re-drive" because of changes it went through (exit renumbering, major interchange reconfiguration, new signs, etc.). Same will go with A-30 in Salaberry-de-Valleyfield (future A-530), especially with the major changes it is going through (twinning, intersections to interchanges, etc.). Because of the importance of the changes, I might even consider it as not clinched.

The "clinched but need to redrive" status also applied to the Interstates in Vermont when they made the big sign replacement project.

[Mdcastle]

I had to make up a few rules to keep clinching highways a reasonable proposition. A few of my rules:
1) A clinched highway cannot be unclinched for any reason, including realignment, whether it was straighening a curve or a new bypass. If the new alignment is dramatically different or if it is upgraded to expressway it is desirable to drive it again. I never thought of it that way, but I like the idea of clinching names and numbers and not physical roadway.
2) It's desirable to end a clinched highway at the termini or an equal or higher grade of highway.
3. Exit and entrance ramps count provided they terminate in on the same perpindicular roadway. It's allowable to leave and renter on a standard diamond, cloverleaf,etc but not to and from slip ramps if they terminate at difference at different locations on a frontage road.
4. Rest areas count
5. Private property (using different driveways too and from a gas station) does not count.

[SSOWorld]

I don't consider Detours as clinchable.  Gotta do the road itself, no questions asked.  Otherwise I consider the route clinched - realigned or not with one exception.  If a business route (or any other state, US or Interstate) replaces the original route, the business route becomes clinched and the new alignment loses clinched status.  It's always nice to "check it out" though.  If a new route number is applied to a road and the road already is clinched (say I-74 over US 52 in NC), the new route becomes clinched by default.

[agentsteel53]

I definitely consider a detour to be valid, as that is the de facto and de jure alignment in place at the time.  I clinched I-10 in December, 2004 in part by traveling down US-61, which was the detour because I-10 was iced over approaching New Orleans.  Since US-61 was signed heavily with temporary gantries and VMSes as being the road one was supposed to take for following I-10, then that was, indeed, I-10, at least for that day.

[hbelkins]

My lone experiences with road closures while attempting to clinch were with US 27 in Indiana and US 131 in Michigan. In both instances the roads were closed for construction. In both cases I drove up to the closure point in one direction (US 27 was for a rehab project,, US 131 for a bridge). Then I turned around, took an alternate route (not the signed detour) and once I rejoined the route, went back to the closure point in the other direction. I consider both clinched (US 27 in Indiana, US 131 in total).

[triplemultiplex]

For me a new alignment means the route needs to be re-clinched.  And I'm not talking the mere smoothing of a corner or an expansion on location.  A new terrain alignment or a rerouting needs to be clinched in order to clinch that route.
It has happened to me a few times, most recently with the opening of the new US 12 freeway between Baraboo & The Dells.  I need to reclinch that portion of US 12 now.

Detours definitely don't count for me.

[hbelkins]

For me a new alignment means the route needs to be re-clinched.  And I'm not talking the mere smoothing of a corner or an expansion on location.  A new terrain alignment or a rerouting needs to be clinched in order to clinch that route.

Not me. At the time I first drove US 50 through Parkersburg, WV, it ran through town. I subsequently clinched US 50 in West Virginia by driving east from Clarksburg, into Maryland and back into WV and exiting into Virginia.

Once the new alignment and Blennerhasset Bridge were built, I didn't consider it to be "un-clinched" and in need of re-clinching since I had clinched it as it existed at the time I was driving it. I did go back and drive it because I wanted to see the bridge, but not because I felt it was no longer clinched and needed to be re-clinched.

[texaskdog]

I don't think I could ever make this a goal on any highway.  What if you turn off and back on and miss 200 feet of pavement?  And what about the other direction?

[corco]

I had to make up a few rules to keep clinching highways a reasonable proposition. A few of my rules:
1) A clinched highway cannot be unclinched for any reason, including realignment, whether it was straighening a curve or a new bypass. If the new alignment is dramatically different or if it is upgraded to expressway it is desirable to drive it again. I never thought of it that way, but I like the idea of clinching names and numbers and not physical roadway.
2) It's desirable to end a clinched highway at the termini or an equal or higher grade of highway.
3. Exit and entrance ramps count provided they terminate in on the same perpindicular roadway. It's allowable to leave and renter on a standard diamond, cloverleaf,etc but not to and from slip ramps if they terminate at difference at different locations on a frontage road.
4. Rest areas count
5. Private property (using different driveways too and from a gas station) does not count.

These are essentially the rules I follow as well

[texaskdog]

I had to make up a few rules to keep clinching highways a reasonable proposition. A few of my rules:
1) A clinched highway cannot be unclinched for any reason, including realignment, whether it was straighening a curve or a new bypass. If the new alignment is dramatically different or if it is upgraded to expressway it is desirable to drive it again. I never thought of it that way, but I like the idea of clinching names and numbers and not physical roadway.
2) It's desirable to end a clinched highway at the termini or an equal or higher grade of highway.
3. Exit and entrance ramps count provided they terminate in on the same perpindicular roadway. It's allowable to leave and renter on a standard diamond, cloverleaf,etc but not to and from slip ramps if they terminate at difference at different locations on a frontage road.
4. Rest areas count
5. Private property (using different driveways too and from a gas station) does not count.

These are essentially the rules I follow as well

Okay what if you had clinched 191 before it was realigned?  How about rule 6, if an addition adds at least 10% to the total length it is no longer clinched.  1a?

[Alps]

My lone experiences with road closures while attempting to clinch were with US 27 in Indiana and US 131 in Michigan. In both instances the roads were closed for construction. In both cases I drove up to the closure point in one direction (US 27 was for a rehab project,, US 131 for a bridge). Then I turned around, took an alternate route (not the signed detour) and once I rejoined the route, went back to the closure point in the other direction. I consider both clinched (US 27 in Indiana, US 131 in total).

This is what I do when clinching around a detour.

[corco]

An extension would probably require me to go back and drive it again. I'm not sure though.

I claim to have driven the entire Washington state highway system- but I finished in 2008 and since then there have been a couple minor changes including roads that didn't exist before. I feel like since I drove the system as it was in 2008 I should still be able to claim it as clinched.

I almost feel like I'd have to say "No, I haven't clinched SR 397. I have, however, driven the entire Washington highway system"- but that seems weird.

I'm undecided.

[florida]

I keep a spreadsheet of roads clinched with old alignments (and former routes) being italicized. Since there's always some type of realignment going on down here, at times they're still kept as a state route, and sometimes as a different number...or they're completely decommissioned. For example, US 17 was realigned in South-Central Florida back in 2006. I happened to clinch the old alignment (many, many years ago) but not the new alignment so I don't consider it completely clinched until I get to the new alignment. The old alignment is no longer state maintained, but I keep the mileage and section name/number separate from the new alignment because it was US 17 at the time of clinching.

[oscar]

For me a new alignment means the route needs to be re-clinched.  And I'm not talking the mere smoothing of a corner or an expansion on location.  A new terrain alignment or a rerouting needs to be clinched in order to clinch that route.
It has happened to me a few times, most recently with the opening of the new US 12 freeway between Baraboo & The Dells.  I need to reclinch that portion of US 12 now.

Detours definitely don't count for me.

I basically follow those rules.  Minor realignments within the existing right-of-way, or bridge replacements on a close parallel alignment, don't matter.  Moving the highway to the other side of a mountain, as will happen with a part of NL 510 I just drove last month will de-clinch (too bad, I wasn't planning on re-visiting Labrador, so I'll have to content myself with clinching the rest of the recently-completed Trans-Labrador Highway).

I ignore re-numberings, so I've clinched all of Maine's Interstates even if I haven't driven all of them post-renumbering (like the unsigned I-495 spur, which I drove when it was part of I-95).

Detours out of the right-of-way mean I've not clinched.  So the temporary bridge closure in Joplin MO on part of Business I-44, with a long detour over other roads, means a segment of the route I don't count.  Minor detours, such as over crossovers shifting northbound traffic into what's normally the southbound lanes then back again, are OK.

One other rule, for Interstate and other freeway systems -- if I've driven route segments pre-designation while it was freeway-level, I will count it as an Interstate, etc. clinched in advance, but not if there were still at-grade crossings.  Thus, while I've driven the pavement that will become the eastern half of I-295 around Jacksonville several times, I counted it as clinched only as FL 9A and not as future Interstate I-295 until the last visit when I drove it after it was all upgraded to freeway.

Also, I'll count as clinched in advance a road that I traveled on foot, bicycle, etc. pre-opening, such as a new segment of CA 52 in the San Diego area that I walked between two exits during the grand opening ceremony the weekend before the road was opened to traffic. 

[empirestate]

I had to make up a few rules to keep clinching highways a reasonable proposition. A few of my rules:
1) A clinched highway cannot be unclinched for any reason, including realignment, whether it was straighening a curve or a new bypass. If the new alignment is dramatically different or if it is upgraded to expressway it is desirable to drive it again. I never thought of it that way, but I like the idea of clinching names and numbers and not physical roadway.
2) It's desirable to end a clinched highway at the termini or an equal or higher grade of highway.
3. Exit and entrance ramps count provided they terminate in on the same perpindicular roadway. It's allowable to leave and renter on a standard diamond, cloverleaf,etc but not to and from slip ramps if they terminate at difference at different locations on a frontage road.
4. Rest areas count
5. Private property (using different driveways too and from a gas station) does not count.

These are essentially the rules I follow as well

Same here, except for #2; plus I don't really keep a running tally of my clinches. But if I did, these would be my guidelines.

What about: do you actually have to be the driver, or can you clinch as a passenger? What if you're asleep, does it count?

(The sleeping is more an issue for me when clinching counties...if I fall asleep as a bus or train passenger and miss a county, do I count it? For the purposes of keeping my map looking tidy, I've decided yes...but it's unsatisfying. I don't even like counting counties I haven't set foot in, but my count would be a lot lower that way!)

[Duke87]

What about: do you actually have to be the driver, or can you clinch as a passenger? What if you're asleep, does it count?

Being the driver is not required. Being awake is not required. Hell, remembering doing it is not required. I clinched I-595 and I-97 when my family made a side trip to Annapolis on the way back from DC. This was when I was three years old. I don't remember this trip and have been on neither road since, but I count both as clinched because I can logically deduce I must have been on them.

Let's also not forget that there are means of clinching a road other than in a car. I initially clinched much of VT 313 by walking it (long story).  I've clinched part of NY 25A by taking a city bus along it. And I consider much of the Allen Road freeway in Toronto clinched by virtue of having ridden the subway through the median (hey, same right of way, and I saw everything out the window!).

[vdeane]

I've been thinking about another issue lately, this time with borders.  The general consensus I've heard at roadmeets is that if you can see customs (I presume US customs?) from the last point you can exit, you can count it as clinched.  But what happens if US customs is far from the border, as happens on US 11, where customs is a whole 3/4 of a mile from the border?  Granted, I could see pretty far (probably 1/2-3/4 of a mile) though I couldn't really make out Canadian customs.

PS: US 9 also has to be fudged.  My understanding from the satellite imagery on MapQuest (Google is out of date) is that it ends at a parking lot used by border patrol.  I took it to the first turnaround north of exit 43 on I-87 and counted the northern end as clinched (the entry on CHM has it end near here anyways).

[Janko Dialnice]

I've been thinking about another issue lately, this time with borders.  The general consensus I've heard at roadmeets is that if you can see customs (I presume US customs?) from the last point you can exit, you can count it as clinched.  But what happens if US customs is far from the border, as happens on US 11, where customs is a whole 3/4 of a mile from the border?  Granted, I could see pretty far (probably 1/2-3/4 of a mile) though I couldn't really make out Canadian customs.

That is the approach that I used for I-81 after the Watertown meet. I had an expired passport, and my passenger had no passport at all, so I wasn't going to cross into Canada. We crossed into the Thousand Islands park, got off at De Wolffe Road, and followed it to the parking lot used by customs employees, and (according to signage) for secondary inspections by US Customs. I could clearly see the southbound lanes of I-81, as well as the US customs booths, but the Canadian customs or any welcome signs were out of my line of site. We then turned around in that lot and returned south on I-81.

I thought that I could consider I-81 as clinched in NY State, but according to the Mplex site, I still lack a quarter mile or so. For my passenger, it was no big deal, since he still lacked I-81 south of I-481 in Syracuse. For me, though, the stakes were higher, since that would mean I would have clinched I-81 from Canada to I-70 in MD. I am fudging it, and calling it clinched, until I can get my passport in order.