IN SR 25 Upgrade Report

[silverback1065]

Whats the name of the road now?

SAMSUNG-SGH-I337

[tdindy88]

Monticello Road

[mukade]

Here is a view of the Freedom bridge looking north from Main Street:



Freedom Bridge to reconnect Delphi trail

[PurdueBill]

Holy crap signs next to grass. Got a closeup?

No closeup but this shows them a little better.

I suppose that is what happens when you have to rush to get the work done before winter.

The signs next to grass are still there even now...wonder if they will ever be removed.

[silverback1065]

I just looked on INDOTs SR map, and it is listing the tiny piece of road in between SR 29 and 25 as SR 329, is this actually signed?

[billtm]

That's awesome! Good job INDOT!

[mobilene]

I just looked on INDOTs SR map, and it is listing the tiny piece of road in between SR 29 and 25 as SR 329, is this actually signed?

Wasn't when I drove through last a month or two ago. Doubt it will be.

[mukade]

I just looked on INDOTs SR map, and it is listing the tiny piece of road in between SR 29 and 25 as SR 329, is this actually signed?

I do not see that marked that way in the 2015 official map. Previously, SR 329 connected SR 29 to SR 25 in the center of Logansport. Most of that route is now SR 25. SR 435 connected US 35 (the southern bypass) to SR 329. Both 329 and 435 are long gone AFAIK.

[silverback1065]

I just looked on INDOTs SR map, and it is listing the tiny piece of road in between SR 29 and 25 as SR 329, is this actually signed?

I do not see that marked that way in the 2015 official map. Previously, SR 329 connected SR 29 to SR 25 in the center of Logansport. Most of that route is now SR 25. SR 435 connected US 35 (the southern bypass) to SR 329. Both 329 and 435 are long gone AFAIK.

must be a number for internal purposes, i found it here: https://gis.in.gov/apps/DOT/RoadwayInventory/

[mukade]

I just looked on INDOTs SR map, and it is listing the tiny piece of road in between SR 29 and 25 as SR 329, is this actually signed?

I do not see that marked that way in the 2015 official map. Previously, SR 329 connected SR 29 to SR 25 in the center of Logansport. Most of that route is now SR 25. SR 435 connected US 35 (the southern bypass) to SR 329. Both 329 and 435 are long gone AFAIK.

must be a number for internal purposes, i found it here: https://gis.in.gov/apps/DOT/RoadwayInventory/

SR 431 is also shown between I-465 and 96th Street in Indy.

On one hand, it does seem to be up-to-date in that SR 22 has been cut way back, but on another, US 31 freeway near South Bend is not shown as complete.

[silverback1065]

Actually that tiny piece is sr 431 indot still owns keystone from 96th to 465.

[NWI_Irish96]

Actually that tiny piece is sr 431 indot still owns keystone from 96th to 465.

What is the point of INDOT maintaining a couple hundred feet of road?

[silverback1065]

They probably wanted to not do that but Indianapolis probably refused to take ownership of the road
This also explains why the 96th st interchange never happened

[NE2]

Actually that tiny piece is sr 431 indot still owns keystone from 96th to 465.

What is the point of INDOT maintaining a couple hundred feet of road?

It happens in many places in many states at interchanges. Usually no number is assigned unless it already had one.

[silverback1065]

Another oddity is that sr 267 ends about 100 yards north of i-74 but it is still signed as ending at the interchange. I'm sure the state can't wait to rid themselves of the whole road north of 74

[NE2]

Another oddity is that sr 267 ends about 100 yards north of i-74 but it is still signed as ending at the interchange. I'm sure the state can't wait to rid themselves of the whole road north of 74

What's odd about signs being more logical than maintenance?

[silverback1065]

The odd thing is the maintenance ending where it does. The signs make sense.

[NE2]

The odd thing is the maintenance ending where it does. The signs make sense.

700 North appears to be the Brownsburg town limit (to the north, Brownsburg has the larger subdivisions but not the parcels just west of SR 267, at least as of 2012).

[silverback1065]

O ok now it makes sense the agreement must have been within the city limits

[mukade]

Bringing back an old topic for an update. I drove down the Hoosier Heartland for the first time in quite a while to check out a few things now that it has been open a few years.

I had read that there have been a number serious (including fatal) accidents at the split diamond in Logansport as motorists assumed that once they entered a ramp that they would not have to stop again. To resolve the issue, INDOT installed lighting, flashers, rumble strips and a small island with reflectors right at the intersection with US 24/US 35 (and presumably at SR 25 as well, but I did not check that). So now it is very clear that you must stop if you get on eastbound at SR 29/US 24/US 35 or get on eastbound from SR 25.

I wanted to see if the single quadrant interchange at Carroll County CR 50W was done, and it is. The pavement looked new - this overpass and interchange was started way back in 2013 so I don't know why it took so long to finish.

I had read that some of the asphalt pavement from one contractor (Brooks 1st from Fort Wayne) was failing, and that INDOT had filed suit against them. I don't know how it was resolved legally, but i did not notice any bad pavement surface anywhere on the highway.

Finally, I had read that Delphi is opening a park right at the Freedom Bridge over the highway so I wanted to check that out. It is just a small park, but I guess access to it is only from a trail from city. I saw no place to park and get up there from near the highway.

Other observations: other than a CountryMark station somewhat off the highway, there are no services from Peru all the way to Lafayette. I would have hoped to see a convenience store or two in Logansport or Delphi. Because I took a Sunday morning drive, traffic was very light. I don't know how much traffic uses it during "peak" hours. I drove back on SR 26 a few miles south, and there was at least as much traffic on that highway even though that is a dangerous narrow and hilly road.

[silverback1065]

Bringing back an old topic for an update. I drove down the Hoosier Heartland for the first time in quite a while to check out a few things now that it has been open a few years.

I had read that there have been a number serious (including fatal) accidents at the split diamond in Logansport as motorists assumed that once they entered a ramp that they would not have to stop again. To resolve the issue, INDOT installed lighting, flashers, rumble strips and a small island with reflectors right at the intersection with US 24/US 35 (and presumably at SR 25 as well, but I did not check that). So now it is very clear that you must stop if you get on eastbound at SR 29/US 24/US 35 or get on eastbound from SR 25.

I wanted to see if the single quadrant interchange at Carroll County CR 50W was done, and it is. The pavement looked new - this overpass and interchange was started way back in 2013 so I don't know why it took so long to finish.

I had read that some of the asphalt pavement from one contractor (Brooks 1st from Fort Wayne) was failing, and that INDOT had filed suit against them. I don't know how it was resolved legally, but i did not notice any bad pavement surface anywhere on the highway.

Finally, I had read that Delphi is opening a park right at the Freedom Bridge over the highway so I wanted to check that out. It is just a small park, but I guess access to it is only from a trail from city. I saw no place to park and get up there from near the highway.

Other observations: other than a CountryMark station somewhat off the highway, there are no services from Peru all the way to Lafayette. I would have hoped to see a convenience store or two in Logansport or Delphi. Because I took a Sunday morning drive, traffic was very light. I don't know how much traffic uses it during "peak" hours. I drove back on SR 26 a few miles south, and there was at least as much traffic on that highway even though that is a dangerous narrow and hilly road.

This exit is so new, it only appears in satellite view on google.  Not sure if the asphalt issues have been resolved yet. 

[PurdueBill]

Bringing back an old topic for an update. I drove down the Hoosier Heartland for the first time in quite a while to check out a few things now that it has been open a few years.

I had read that there have been a number serious (including fatal) accidents at the split diamond in Logansport as motorists assumed that once they entered a ramp that they would not have to stop again. To resolve the issue, INDOT installed lighting, flashers, rumble strips and a small island with reflectors right at the intersection with US 24/US 35 (and presumably at SR 25 as well, but I did not check that). So now it is very clear that you must stop if you get on eastbound at SR 29/US 24/US 35 or get on eastbound from SR 25.

I wanted to see if the single quadrant interchange at Carroll County CR 50W was done, and it is. The pavement looked new - this overpass and interchange was started way back in 2013 so I don't know why it took so long to finish.

I had read that some of the asphalt pavement from one contractor (Brooks 1st from Fort Wayne) was failing, and that INDOT had filed suit against them. I don't know how it was resolved legally, but i did not notice any bad pavement surface anywhere on the highway.

Finally, I had read that Delphi is opening a park right at the Freedom Bridge over the highway so I wanted to check that out. It is just a small park, but I guess access to it is only from a trail from city. I saw no place to park and get up there from near the highway.

Other observations: other than a CountryMark station somewhat off the highway, there are no services from Peru all the way to Lafayette. I would have hoped to see a convenience store or two in Logansport or Delphi. Because I took a Sunday morning drive, traffic was very light. I don't know how much traffic uses it during "peak" hours. I drove back on SR 26 a few miles south, and there was at least as much traffic on that highway even though that is a dangerous narrow and hilly road.

This exit is so new, it only appears in satellite view on google.  Not sure if the asphalt issues have been resolved yet. 

They could probably sell blue service sign advertising for Old 25 or 421/39/18 around Delphi; there is gas and food available on what used to be the old route of 25 but you blow by without even seeing it now.  Maybe stuff will pop up at the 421 interchange over time.  Traveling 25/24/469/30 toward Ohio and back, the gap in services is noticeable compared to what you see around Wabash, Huntington, or even Peru with the truck stop on 31 easily reached (and advertised).  Once the 24 bypass of Logansport was completed to reach 35, you don't see any services there either now on 24 unless you follow Business 24, which you get to very soon after passing US 31 and Peru (I think the meeting of Logansport's Business 24 with regular 24 is closer to Peru than to Logansport itself!) and follow to downtown.

The split diamond has been the source of a lot of complaint after accidents that seem to be caused by people not paying attention....so you turned onto the ramp and assumed you could just speed up to 60+ without being totally aware of your surroundings or the road?  That's INDOT's fault?  What other design would be feasible?  Braided ramps? A stack?  I wonder how familiar with the area the professor quoted in the article is--24/35 has intersections on its dual carriageway in both directions from the interchange, and then 35 even turns back into a 2-lane undivided not far east of there. 

The biggest problem with the initial design was definitely a lack of flashing lights or larger stop signs.  A stop sign like you'd use at the end of a conventional diamond ramp wasn't enough in the first place, as shown by the accidents.

If the accidents continue and lawsuits continue to be filed against INDOT because drivers can't or won't pay attention to the road, instead basing their driving entirely on what they think is there instead of what really is there, then they ought to just close off the ramps between the two intersections and make all traffic use SR 29 and Burlington Ave.  North on 25, exit, turn right, then left on Burlington passing under the new road.  East on 24/35, pass under and through, left on Burlington, then right on the onramp.  West on 24/35 could actually exit at Monticello Road (the old road) and use its old alignment; the BGS for that are all still in place.  South on 25 from downtown passes under the new road, right on SR 29, left onto the ramp.  No more using the frontage road style portions of the ramps and everyone can handle it!!

[silverback1065]

Bringing back an old topic for an update. I drove down the Hoosier Heartland for the first time in quite a while to check out a few things now that it has been open a few years.

I had read that there have been a number serious (including fatal) accidents at the split diamond in Logansport as motorists assumed that once they entered a ramp that they would not have to stop again. To resolve the issue, INDOT installed lighting, flashers, rumble strips and a small island with reflectors right at the intersection with US 24/US 35 (and presumably at SR 25 as well, but I did not check that). So now it is very clear that you must stop if you get on eastbound at SR 29/US 24/US 35 or get on eastbound from SR 25.

I wanted to see if the single quadrant interchange at Carroll County CR 50W was done, and it is. The pavement looked new - this overpass and interchange was started way back in 2013 so I don't know why it took so long to finish.

I had read that some of the asphalt pavement from one contractor (Brooks 1st from Fort Wayne) was failing, and that INDOT had filed suit against them. I don't know how it was resolved legally, but i did not notice any bad pavement surface anywhere on the highway.

Finally, I had read that Delphi is opening a park right at the Freedom Bridge over the highway so I wanted to check that out. It is just a small park, but I guess access to it is only from a trail from city. I saw no place to park and get up there from near the highway.

Other observations: other than a CountryMark station somewhat off the highway, there are no services from Peru all the way to Lafayette. I would have hoped to see a convenience store or two in Logansport or Delphi. Because I took a Sunday morning drive, traffic was very light. I don't know how much traffic uses it during "peak" hours. I drove back on SR 26 a few miles south, and there was at least as much traffic on that highway even though that is a dangerous narrow and hilly road.

This exit is so new, it only appears in satellite view on google.  Not sure if the asphalt issues have been resolved yet. 

They could probably sell blue service sign advertising for Old 25 or 421/39/18 around Delphi; there is gas and food available on what used to be the old route of 25 but you blow by without even seeing it now.  Maybe stuff will pop up at the 421 interchange over time.  Traveling 25/24/469/30 toward Ohio and back, the gap in services is noticeable compared to what you see around Wabash, Huntington, or even Peru with the truck stop on 31 easily reached (and advertised).  Once the 24 bypass of Logansport was completed to reach 35, you don't see any services there either now on 24 unless you follow Business 24, which you get to very soon after passing US 31 and Peru (I think the meeting of Logansport's Business 24 with regular 24 is closer to Peru than to Logansport itself!) and follow to downtown.

The split diamond has been the source of a lot of complaint after accidents that seem to be caused by people not paying attention....so you turned onto the ramp and assumed you could just speed up to 60+ without being totally aware of your surroundings or the road?  That's INDOT's fault?  What other design would be feasible?  Braided ramps? A stack?  I wonder how familiar with the area the professor quoted in the article is--24/35 has intersections on its dual carriageway in both directions from the interchange, and then 35 even turns back into a 2-lane undivided not far east of there. 

The biggest problem with the initial design was definitely a lack of flashing lights or larger stop signs.  A stop sign like you'd use at the end of a conventional diamond ramp wasn't enough in the first place, as shown by the accidents.

If the accidents continue and lawsuits continue to be filed against INDOT because drivers can't or won't pay attention to the road, instead basing their driving entirely on what they think is there instead of what really is there, then they ought to just close off the ramps between the two intersections and make all traffic use SR 29 and Burlington Ave.  North on 25, exit, turn right, then left on Burlington passing under the new road.  East on 24/35, pass under and through, left on Burlington, then right on the onramp.  West on 24/35 could actually exit at Monticello Road (the old road) and use its old alignment; the BGS for that are all still in place.  South on 25 from downtown passes under the new road, right on SR 29, left onto the ramp.  No more using the frontage road style portions of the ramps and everyone can handle it!!

this is immediately the solution i thought of to fix this problem (i-485 in Charlotte): https://www.google.com/maps/@35.3684929,-80.7854475,17z     but honestly why is there a triangle of roads there?  SR 29 should be the only road leaving south from there, that unsigned stub should have been removed completely or at least cul-de-saced.

[PurdueBill]

this is immediately the solution i thought of to fix this problem (i-485 in Charlotte): https://www.google.com/maps/@35.3684929,-80.7854475,17z     but honestly why is there a triangle of roads there?  SR 29 should be the only road leaving south from there, that unsigned stub should have been removed completely or at least cul-de-saced.

That is a good question probably only answered with "because the road was already there" or something--before the expressway, the leg of 29 that currently brances off to the northwest to meet 24/35 didn't exist.  Today, it could probably be removed without causing too much trouble--except adding to volume at the eastern intersections of the split diamond for those taking 29 and going through to 24/35 on the west side.  INDOT must have traffic counts for all these, but who knows.  Probably cheaper to leave the road there than take it out, just like Monticello Road's exit westbound and the whole dual carriageway staying in place between there and still-current 24/35.  No real reason for it to be there anymore, but it would cost something to take it out.

[mukade]

this is immediately the solution i thought of to fix this problem (i-485 in Charlotte): https://www.google.com/maps/@35.3684929,-80.7854475,17z     but honestly why is there a triangle of roads there?  SR 29 should be the only road leaving south from there, that unsigned stub should have been removed completely or at least cul-de-saced.

That is a good question probably only answered with "because the road was already there" or something--before the expressway, the leg of 29 that currently brances off to the northwest to meet 24/35 didn't exist.  Today, it could probably be removed without causing too much trouble--except adding to volume at the eastern intersections of the split diamond for those taking 29 and going through to 24/35 on the west side.  INDOT must have traffic counts for all these, but who knows.  Probably cheaper to leave the road there than take it out, just like Monticello Road's exit westbound and the whole dual carriageway staying in place between there and still-current 24/35.  No real reason for it to be there anymore, but it would cost something to take it out.

I think keeping the existing roadways is fine because there are houses along the roads, but obviously, the signage and lighting were inadequate. You could maybe give INDOT a pass on signage as a split diamond like this is uncommon in the state, but I will say that the lack of lighting at all the new interchanges on SR 25, US 31, and I-69 is something they should have done something about. In Hamilton County (Carmel, especially), there is expensive, ornamental lighting everywhere along the new US 31 freeway. Was that paid for by INDOT or the cities in Hamilton County?