Mass Transit. How is it in your city? Do you use it?

[Riverside Frwy]

I don't see how anyone can use Mass Transit in the MidWest. They seem to have the most skewed way of planning routes. St. Louis for example, on some routes the line could be an hour and a half long yet end only 5 blocks from where you started.

In LA, we have CORRIDORS, an idea many cities especially in midwest seem to not understand. Instead of creating a grid, with consistent routes on one street, they have a bunch of confusing U shaped routes that make it a hassle to ride. In LA there is a set route for each street that makes a grid that's easy to transfer and pinpoint your destination. Line 20 is Wilshire Bl, Line 33 is Venice Bl, Line 233 is Van Nuys Bl, etc

Our rail system is growing fast with the new tax measure called measure R. We have 2 light rail extensions under construction now. One thing I like about LA is it's large number of munis. EVERY decently sized city has it's own bus service, which means LACMTA buses acts more like connectors, while the munis sort of act like a community shuttle going deep into the city and hitting those 'fine' spots.

[vtk]

In Columbus we have COTA, the Central Ohio Transit Authority, which consists entirelly of buses.  You can ride COTA to work if you have a 9-5 job somewhere in Downtown or the near north side, and live near or inside I-270.  It also can be useful to OSU students, who ride free, to get some places during the day. COTA has an offshoot called CABS – Campus Area Bus Service – well serving OSU campus and immediate surroundings gratis.  COTA isn't good for tourism: the routes don't serve attractions well, and the timetables are hard to read.  There's a shuttle between the state fairgrounds and the Horseshoe on game days, but you still have to drive to and park at the fairgrounds.  Finally, COTA makes a decent option for Red White & Boom – it doesn't save time or money, but you don't have to worry about finding a parking spot or negotiating the slow outbound slog.

I've visited LA, and not used transit at all.  I've visited Chicago; the El trains were somewhat convenient, but the buses weren't attractive enough as an option.  In Boston, I made several trips by train, BRT and/or regular buses. I think Boston transit is my favorite so far.

[NE2]

I don't see how anyone can use Mass Transit in the MidWest. They seem to have the most skewed way of planning routes. St. Louis for example, on some routes the line could be an hour and a half long yet end only 5 blocks from where you started.

Most likely they're simply two radial routes combined for operating efficiencies.

[corco]

The only time I ever used transit with any frequency was when I lived in Tacoma WA from 2006 to 2008. I'd often go up to Seattle, and the Sound Transit buses were generally the most efficient route to go, especially when going to Mariners games (I went to a lot of Mariners games) as parking in Seattle was sometimes a hassle.

I was disappointed when I was back there in 2010 with the light rail open. In the past, if I was going from downtown to the airport I'd get on Metro 194, which jumped straight on I-5 and went to the airport. The bus was full of poor people, but it was fast. The light rail does the same thing, but at 25 MPH down city arterials and is full of middle class people. I guess rich people like light rail better, but the bus sure was more convenient.

I've ridden BART, and I used Metra a lot when I was little to go from Geneva into downtown Chicago. I haven't dabbled with Phoenix/Tucson/Denver buses. I have ridden the Boise bus, but that's not terribly exciting.

[ctsignguy]

When i would visit the ex-SO in Toronto years ago, we would go pretty much everywhere via the bus/subway system.  Toronto has a well-planned out and implemented transit system where during much of the day and pretty much of the later night, you arent more than a few minutes from a bus taking you to where you want to go....and unlike a lot of other places, the TTO made efforts to keep their equipment clean and presentable

[deathtopumpkins]

I use mass transit here in Boston daily, as I no longer own a car (and feel like you're better off without one in this city anyway), and I can honestly say that it is usually very convenient and efficient, whether I'm heading downtown on the subway or heading out into the suburbs on the commuter rail. There's a reason the MBTA's Green Line is the busiest light rail line in the country.

Boston's about the only city (excepting maybe New York) this can be said for though, because it's a pretty unique case.

[Michael in Philly]

Parking in downtown DC's really not that bad on weekends, in balance.  And I'm not in a position to overlook the difference between a $100+ train fare and a $35 tank of gas.

No disagreement from me there--when I lived in DC I occasionally drove into town (even if it involved parking in the Mall) rather than using Metro because it was actually not all that straightforward to do park & ride from a Metro station near where I was living.

The type of exploration I was thinking of was less urban than suburban.  If I, say, wanted to go to a few bookstores on the Main Line (perhaps I was looking for something in particular) - past tense because Borders is out of business now - even though every one of them was close to a train station, it still took a hell of a lot longer to catch the train to Wynnewood, spend 20 minutes in Borders, wait for the next train to Bryn Mawr... and so on, than to drive point to point.  And there's also the matter of carrying stuff (I have neck issues).

I'd say that is more errand-chaining (for which cars make good sense) than exploration (where the goal is to take in sensory impressions of novel places).  Also, if you don't mind me saying it, your specific example sounds pre-Bookfinder.com.

I don't know bookfinder.com; must remember to check it out.  But browsing's more fun anyway.

[CL]

Left map: 2011 / Right map: 2014

Salt Lake City. The above map is only light rail; we also have an intra- and inter-county (seven-county) bus system, commuter rail (FrontRunner) which will extend roughly ninety miles by 2014, and even a BRT line. The Utah Transit Authority runs all public transportation in northern Utah, and it covers a substantial area (those seven counties have 2.2 million people in it). Salt Lake's pretty progressive with its public transit, as well as efficient (buses travel on grid routes, rather than hub-and-spoke). The route numbers are intuitive: they're based on the grid position of the road it runs on. For example, a bus that runs on 4500 South will be route No. 45. North-south routes have a two appended to the number, so a bus on 1300 East will be route No. 213. Nonetheless, Salt Lake is like most other western cities in that one will be hampered if one does not have a car. The city is simply too spread out for public transportation to reach all areas. Fares are $2.25 one-way, and the ticket covers transfers for two hours.

I'll be using it extensively next year, but right now I'm pretty much relegated to a car. However, whenever there's a major event downtown (like a Utah Jazz or University of Utah game) I'll hop on TRAX (the light rail) to get there. I might be buying a house in Daybreak in the future simply because I love the idea of having light rail right next to me take me straight into downtown or the University of Utah.

I suppose since we're discussing mass transit, we should include photos.

FrontRunner (by Flickr user So Cal Metro):

TRAX (by CountyLemonade):




Inter-county bus (by So Cal Metro):

Intra-county bus (So Cal Metro):


Pretty good for a region of 2.2 million, right?

[Lightning Strike]

Chicago's isn't bad, IMHO, for going into and out of the city.  It beats the hell out of the parking price in the Loop.  As for suburb-to-suburb, it sucks majorly.

Agree, I have friends in Wheaton and trying to get to them from the NW suburbs can be a long trip....But I'm also surprised no one has brought up NJTransit. State-wide bus/rail transit, I feel it was better in previous years just for the fact that do to lack of money the state has had to cut back on number of times a particular bus can run a route in a day. But if I'm lazy and don't want to try to find parking/wait in god-awful long traffic to get into NYC I take the train(s) from either Trenton or Camden to get there since I used to live near the heart of one of the S. Jersey hubs.

[vdeane]

I'm suprised DC was praised so much earlier in this thread.  When my family visited there a couple years ago, my mom nearly got heat stroke because the Lincoln Memorial is over 20 minutes away from a metro stop and it was a hot July day.

[Duke87]

The DC Metro sucks. Besides poor coverage, you also have a needlessly complicated fare system with no monthly passes, draconian rules about food with equally draconian enforcement, and bathrooms in every station but you're not allowed to use them.

[sandiaman]

The  mass  transit  system  in  my city (Albuquerque)   consists  of  bus  and flex-bus only plus a  new commuter  train (called the Rail Runner).  Aside from the train, which  is still  highly subsidized,  the  bus  carries a stigma  about being for  homeless,  drunks,  punks  and   people too poor to afford  basic  transportation.  There  is half  million people    inside  the city limits, and a metro  population  of  900,000.  Nobody  I know takes  the bus   to work,(or   would admit   to it)  and Albuquerque  will probably  remain  a  city  that  is  dependent  on the private  car  for my   life time

[J N Winkler]

I'm suprised DC was praised so much earlier in this thread.  When my family visited there a couple years ago, my mom nearly got heat stroke because the Lincoln Memorial is over 20 minutes away from a metro stop and it was a hot July day.

You have to be prepared to do a little walking when you use a subway system, no matter where it is or how dense it is.  My personal rule was never to try to use the subway without a backpack containing at least a bottle of water and a book to read.  The bottle of water is part of the official advice for travelling on the London Underground in the summer, notwithstanding London's daytime summer highs (even during the "dog days") being about 10-20° F lower than DC's.

The DC Metro sucks. Besides poor coverage, you also have a needlessly complicated fare system with no monthly passes, draconian rules about food with equally draconian enforcement, and bathrooms in every station but you're not allowed to use them.

The lack of options for flat-rate travel is not good, but personally I never felt it was that much of a problem because the unit fare is pretty low (or at least it was when I was using it).  Pretty much every heavy-rail transit network which offers flat-fare pricing divides its service area into tariff zones which penalize suburb-to-center travel, sometimes by a significant amount.

I don't think I have ever used a subway network which offered public access to bathrooms in stations it owns or operates entirely on its own account.  On the London Underground, for example, you don't usually expect to have access to bathrooms except at stations (typically outside central London) which are also served by commuter rail.  I tend not to think that bathroom provision is necessary at stations with at least 10 train arrivals hourly.

[6a]

In Columbus we have COTA, the Central Ohio Transit Authority, which consists entirelly of buses.  You can ride COTA to work if you have a 9-5 job somewhere in Downtown or the near north side, and live near or inside I-270.

Just for giggles I mapped out my commute via bus.  I'd have to take three routes and nearly three hours to save me from my gruelling 16 minute drive.  Add to that the fact there are no buses running at 3:30 am and COTA is a non-starter for me.

It also can be useful to OSU students, who ride free, to get some places during the day.

Not to mention the #21 "drunk bus" at nights

[Brandon]

^^ I know the feeling.  I tried the "mas transit" option on the mapping services and found that it would take over three hours to get to my work place and switch between taxi, bus, and train several times.  It would also cost much more.  IIRC, it would cost almost $10 to get to work via mass transit while the car takes one hour and one gallon of gas ($3.31/gallon today).  I don't count oil changes, depreciation (doesn't matter to me anyway - I keep the car for 10 years), insurance, etc, as I'd be paying those anyway, transit or drive.

[english si]

The bottle of water is part of the official advice for travelling on the London Underground in the summer, notwithstanding London's daytime summer highs (even during the "dog days") being about 10-20° F lower than DC's.

I was glad I had one on Monday, despite it not being that hot, not going underground (where it's hotter in most places than the surface) and even spending a short time on an air conditioned train (which seemed no colder).

I don't think I have ever used a subway network which offered public access to bathrooms in stations it owns or operates entirely on its own account.  On the London Underground, for example, you don't usually expect to have access to bathrooms except at stations (typically outside central London) which are also served by commuter rail.

I've used ones at Westminster, though outside fair control, before, though the last time I tried, I couldn't find them (though the station was closed, which didn't help). TfL publish a map: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/toilets-map.pdf http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/toilets-map.pdf - there's quite a few in Central London, though most are 30p ones in the mainline terminals.

[roadman65]

Lynx in Central Florida stinks! Their bus drivers are dis-courteous and the ones who operate the number 4  and 8 routes goof off on Orange Blossom Trail near Holden Avenue every day.  Instead of continuing they stay stopped on the side of the road for and indefinite period of time. 

Plus, there are far too many bus stops along the way.  Many stops are too close to each other where one can do for the distance.  On Orange Blossom Trail between Consulate Drive and Taft- Vineland Road, a distance of 1/3 mile, there are numerous bus stops in that stretch that can be condensed.  People can walk a few extra steps.

We do need a rail system, but I know that no one will support it when running!  If Orange Blossom Trail had a subway would make me leave my car home.  Realistically, no one else feels this way and if built would be a waste.  We are all spoiled with our cars!

[Bickendan]

The  mass  transit  system  in  my city (Albuquerque)   consists  of  bus  and flex-bus only plus a  new commuter  train (called the Rail Runner).  Aside from the train, which  is still  highly subsidized,  the  bus  carries a stigma  about being for  homeless,  drunks,  punks  and   people too poor to afford  basic  transportation.  There  is half  million people    inside  the city limits, and a metro  population  of  900,000.  Nobody  I know takes  the bus   to work,(or   would admit   to it)  and Albuquerque  will probably  remain  a  city  that  is  dependent  on the private  car  for my   life time

I rode the bus in Albuquerque into town while I had five hours to kill waiting for a flight at the Sunport. It worked well enough for me.
I've also ridden the light-rail and buses in Minneapolis. I like the system they have over there.

Living in Portland and not currently owning a car, I'm dependent on TriMet or bicycle. Often times, coming home from work in Gresham back into Portland, if I leave at the same time as the bus, I can beat the bus by about 10 minutes. As winter Monsoon season has arrived, however, the bike's getting locked up for the season.

[NE2]

Lynx in Central Florida stinks! Their bus drivers are dis-courteous and the ones who operate the number 4  and 8 routes goof off on Orange Blossom Trail near Holden Avenue every day.  Instead of continuing they stay stopped on the side of the road for and indefinite period of time. 

They're probably making up for gained time (so they don't leave upstream stops too early).

If Orange Blossom Trail had a subway would make me leave my car home.

If OBT had a subway it would fill with water.

[3467]

Most downstate Illinois cities and towns have bus systems. I dont use them but I know several people who depend on them.
We also have the state Amtrak trains to Chicago. I do use those.

[Rick Powell]

Champaign-Urbana, Il has an outstanding bus system which i used a lot during my student days.  A lot of it is geared to the University of IL, but they cover most areas of the metro area and offer late service and fairly frequent day service.  All students get a pass to ride, which is included in student fees and a steady source of revenue for the transit district.

I use mass transit 1-2 times a week in the Chicago area...mostly among 4 Metra lines (BNSF, Heritage, Rock Island or Metra Electric).  Each line has its own quirks, but the Electric has its own dedicated tracks and the most frequent schedule.  I use the CTA a few times a month...some areas of the city have great coverage (like the west side which has 3 branches) but it's all a downtown-oriented radial system.  One of the greatest quirks of the system is that the best place to catch the CTA Red Line train to a Cubs game is the 35th st. station at Sox park on the south side.  Most often, the teams do not play home games on the same date, so parking is wide open at 35th.  There is very limited parking capability at any of the stations on the north side of Chicago.

[1995hoo]

The DC Metro sucks. Besides poor coverage, you also have a needlessly complicated fare system with no monthly passes, draconian rules about food with equally draconian enforcement, and bathrooms in every station but you're not allowed to use them.

Part of the original rationale for not opening the toilets to the public was concern about crime. The DC Metrorail system was planned and laid out primarily in the late 1960s/early 1970s (with route tweaking continuing for many years afterwards), and that's the period when the New York Subway was at its low point in terms of crime, graffiti, etc. DC's planners were petrified that the system here would wind up becoming a den of crime. New York had some restrooms, but almost all of them were closed because of crime and supposedly because of homosexual activity, so DC's planners decided from the start not to offer public toilets. Officially the station manager is authorized to open the restroom in case of "emergency," though the station manager is also the judge of whether you really need to go. The only stop that has a regularly-accessible toilet inside fare control is the Huntington stop in Virginia on the lower level.

My wife rides the DC Metrorail to work. I used to in the late 1990s, but through the 2000s I drove, and we normally drive to hockey and baseball games because it's substantially faster. DC took "don't copy New York" to an extreme and designed a two-track system with very few pocket tracks and no provision for express service. Problem is, when a train breaks down or has some problem it snarls the whole line, and because there's a lot of shared trackage across lines, any such snarl ripples across multiple lines. I read a book about the system's history and the planners were apparently convinced that the system would be so reliable that breakdowns wouldn't be a concern. Massive failure on their part. It costs me $14 to park when I go to a hockey game, but we get home in 20 minutes (compare to 45 on the subway by the time we wait for the train, ride to our stop, walk to the car, exit the parking garage, and drive home) and the cost winds up being slightly cheaper than the subway when I add my rush-hour fare into the city (over $5.00), parking at the stop near home ($4.50), and the non-rush fare back home for both of us (I think around $3.00 each). For baseball games there's no comparison because I can park in a metered zone for less than $1.00 and be home in 20 minutes, whereas on the subway we'd have to change trains twice or else go way out of the way.

To me the main failure of the DC subway is that it's premised entirely on the suburb-to-city commute because that's what people did in the 1960s. Nowadays the suburb-to-suburb commute is at least as important, but the Metrorail system doesn't serve that unless you're willing to ride all the way to, or close to, downtown, then change trains and ride all the way back out. But trying to build a rail system to link the suburbs isn't easy due to cost and due to density–in order to make a Circle Line type thing cost-effective, it would have to link high-density areas that would generate enough business, but there aren't enough of those. This is the problem with trying to graft mass transit rail onto an already-developed area, compared to having the system grow with the area as happened in London and New York. Of course, that also means that it's not really fair to use London or New York as a model for what DC's Metrorail is or should be in terms of level of service, but I do think it's fair to criticize the designers for making some foolish design choices just because they were "anti—New York Subway." I mean, New York's first IRT line opened in 1904. Even if that system had problems–and it surely did–it was foolish to ignore 60 years of lessons about how to run a subway.

We do have a very extensive bus network but it's relatively under-used except in certain corridors, many of which tend to be lower-income or minority. A major part of the problem in that respect is simply that so many people in DC don't necessarily have a fixed 9-to-5 (or whatever) schedule and so cannot necessarily rely on making the bus at a particular time every day; also, when you're not convinced that the trains will be reliable, and your bus only runs once an hour, it's understandable why a lot of people shy away from making the subway-to-bus connection. I've been quite thankful for the Fairfax Connector bus on a few occasions when I've had to leave one of the cars at the mechanic overnight while they obtain parts, though.

On the whole I'm convinced that notwithstanding its flaws our Metrorail system is a benefit to the area. All I have to do if I doubt that is to look at the Franconia-Springfield Metro stop's parking garage. It holds around 5,000 cars. I assume some of those cars brought more than one person to the subway, so I figure if the subway weren't there, that garage alone would pour another 5,500 to 6,000 cars onto the streets. Then I multiply that to account for other suburban stops with big garages and I shudder at the thought of all those cars on the road.

[roadman65]

Lynx in Central Florida stinks! Their bus drivers are dis-courteous and the ones who operate the number 4  and 8 routes goof off on Orange Blossom Trail near Holden Avenue every day.  Instead of continuing they stay stopped on the side of the road for and indefinite period of time. 

They're probably making up for gained time (so they don't leave upstream stops too early).

If Orange Blossom Trail had a subway would make me leave my car home.

If OBT had a subway it would fill with water.

It might be, as they must allow extra schedule time to allow for traffic!  That may be a place to catch up.

As far as OBT cannot have a subway it is true just like most places cannot have basements in Central Florida due to the water table so high to the soil line.  That is why I started the sentence "If" cause I know that it can never be reality or if it was it would be such a project that would require a lot of money and effort to accomplish.  I do hope they get Sunrail back on the table to go from DeLand to Poinciana.  Most would use the existing CSX tracks and only a spur into Poinciana south of Kissimmee.  The question is now, will people use it?  Ideally it is great, but realistically maybe not.