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Author Topic: Traffic signal  (Read 451221 times)

Scott5114

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3075 on: July 30, 2020, 01:04:00 PM »

Mirror, mirror, on the wall, is there no end to the redundancy at all?

Yes, that is 5 side mounts and one overhead signal.

On the other hand, jakeroot is probably on Expedia right now booking a flight to go see it.
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jakeroot

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3076 on: July 30, 2020, 01:07:52 PM »

Mirror, mirror, on the wall, is there no end to the redundancy at all?

Yes, that is 5 side mounts and one overhead signal.

Well, if it's that versus the standard USDOT setup ... yeah I'm taking that every damn day.

On the other hand, jakeroot is probably on Expedia right now booking a flight to go see it.

I'm already at the airport.
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jmacswimmer

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3077 on: July 30, 2020, 01:13:05 PM »

Mirror, mirror, on the wall, is there no end to the redundancy at all?

Yes, that is 5 side mounts and one overhead signal.

Reminds me of this pedestrian crossing signal I came across while studying abroad.
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NoGoodNamesAvailable

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3078 on: July 30, 2020, 05:04:01 PM »

This forum has made me pay attention to signal placement, something I never really noticed before. Now it drives me crazy to see agencies continuing to install signals with obviously inferior configurations. The difference between NYS and NJ in this regard is very obvious. In NY signals are usually clustered next to each other on diagonal span wire or overhead on a far side mast arm. If there's a larger vehicle in front of you, you just don't get to see the signals. In NJ the simple addition of an overhead near side signal on the left as standard means that there is usually a signal visible to you regardless of where you stop. It bothers me that New York is willing to spend a lot of money to install new mast arms and signals at an intersection but refuses to make a basic improvement to signal visibility when the opportunity exists.
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STLmapboy

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3079 on: July 30, 2020, 08:10:22 PM »

This forum has made me pay attention to signal placement, something I never really noticed before. Now it drives me crazy to see agencies continuing to install signals with obviously inferior configurations. The difference between NYS and NJ in this regard is very obvious. In NY signals are usually clustered next to each other on diagonal span wire or overhead on a far side mast arm. If there's a larger vehicle in front of you, you just don't get to see the signals. In NJ the simple addition of an overhead near side signal on the left as standard means that there is usually a signal visible to you regardless of where you stop. It bothers me that New York is willing to spend a lot of money to install new mast arms and signals at an intersection but refuses to make a basic improvement to signal visibility when the opportunity exists.

Like this vs this? (Couldn't find a good NJ truck example). Yeah, I agree with you. I also like NJ being close to 100% mast arm. Redundancy is good, though five side mounts may be a bit overkill.
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djlynch

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3080 on: July 30, 2020, 11:05:17 PM »

Reminds me of this pedestrian crossing signal I came across while studying abroad.

I'm generally a fan of the British (and Australian) habit of putting lights at both the stop line and the exit, but it's a bit overkill when it's done for a pedestrian crossing, even without the extra light for visibility above/around tall vehicles.
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ErmineNotyours

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3081 on: July 30, 2020, 11:06:30 PM »

At the other end of the spectrum (presumably this is temporary, as they're changing all the traffic signals on this street in Renton).

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SignBridge

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3082 on: July 31, 2020, 03:31:02 PM »

This forum has made me pay attention to signal placement, something I never really noticed before. Now it drives me crazy to see agencies continuing to install signals with obviously inferior configurations. The difference between NYS and NJ in this regard is very obvious. In NY signals are usually clustered next to each other on diagonal span wire or overhead on a far side mast arm. If there's a larger vehicle in front of you, you just don't get to see the signals. In NJ the simple addition of an overhead near side signal on the left as standard means that there is usually a signal visible to you regardless of where you stop. It bothers me that New York is willing to spend a lot of money to install new mast arms and signals at an intersection but refuses to make a basic improvement to signal visibility when the opportunity exists.

If you were to query NYS DOT about this, they would probably tell you that their installations meet the standards in the Manual; end of story as far as they're concerned.
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KEK Inc.

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3083 on: August 02, 2020, 01:19:27 AM »

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ErmineNotyours

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3084 on: August 04, 2020, 09:53:04 AM »

https://www.google.com/maps/@28.1917119,-82.4657267,3a,16.8y,288.91h,97.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shdVMCY-ub9gqZIp6BnZDQA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
So close yet so far. In Florida.

Reminds me of this: Renton-Issaquah Highway.  Maybe it should have been a continuous arch.  The telephone wire knocked off one of the hoods.
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STLmapboy

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3085 on: August 04, 2020, 03:59:21 PM »

https://www.google.com/maps/@28.1917119,-82.4657267,3a,16.8y,288.91h,97.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shdVMCY-ub9gqZIp6BnZDQA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
So close yet so far. In Florida.

Reminds me of this: Renton-Issaquah Highway.  Maybe it should have been a continuous arch.  The telephone wire knocked off one of the hoods.

Those look like some pretty long hoods. Could've used the slanted hoods that California is so fond of.
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steviep24

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3086 on: August 04, 2020, 05:56:57 PM »

« Last Edit: August 04, 2020, 06:00:41 PM by steviep24 »
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Roadrunner75

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3087 on: August 05, 2020, 12:32:22 AM »

This may have been asked before, but today after the tropical storm ran through NJ and took out power all over my area, a local signal I encountered was in flash mode.  However, I was surprised to see the priority direction get both a flashing yellow and a steady green at the same time.  The cross-street got a regular flashing red.  I don't think I've ever seen that before.  Is there some kind of temporary interval on certain systems that would ever show that in a fault/power outage (green + yellow) before going to just yellow flash (I assumed it did eventually, but didn't stick around to find out), or was there most likely something wrong with the signal? 


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roadman65

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3088 on: August 05, 2020, 08:55:38 AM »

https://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/49455356418/in/dateposted-public/

Common case now of mast arms always too long for what is needed.  Can't they customize these arms to fit the exact distance to where the left lane ends?
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Sheryl Crowe

Scott5114

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3089 on: August 05, 2020, 07:11:00 PM »

This may have been asked before, but today after the tropical storm ran through NJ and took out power all over my area, a local signal I encountered was in flash mode.  However, I was surprised to see the priority direction get both a flashing yellow and a steady green at the same time.  The cross-street got a regular flashing red.  I don't think I've ever seen that before.  Is there some kind of temporary interval on certain systems that would ever show that in a fault/power outage (green + yellow) before going to just yellow flash (I assumed it did eventually, but didn't stick around to find out), or was there most likely something wrong with the signal? 

Pretty sure that was just a short in the controller. It may have been damaged in the storm. I can't imagine a controller would intentionally show conflicting aspects like that—it'd be a liability issue.
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KEK Inc.

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3090 on: August 05, 2020, 07:46:40 PM »

https://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/49455356418/in/dateposted-public/

Common case now of mast arms always too long for what is needed.  Can't they customize these arms to fit the exact distance to where the left lane ends?

In that case it's probably just cheaper to get the mast-arm in bulk (at a set size). 

Often, they use arms that are longer for possible future improvements to the intersections, but I don't think that's the case here.
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SignBridge

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3091 on: August 05, 2020, 09:20:31 PM »

That's common in Northern Virginia too. Very sloppy in my opinion. You don't see that crap in California, my favorite state for traffic signals.
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STLmapboy

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3092 on: August 05, 2020, 09:49:00 PM »

That's common in Northern Virginia too. Very sloppy in my opinion. You don't see that crap in California, my favorite state for traffic signals.

Well that's not because CA does better on specifying signal length (it doesn't), it's because they always mount the left turn signal at the end of the arm. If they would put more thru signals on then they would earn more points in my book. Current Nevada is my favorite state for signals. If you want a state that combines the CA curved mast with plenty of signals (and not making everything a protected-only left), look no further than Utah.
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SignBridge

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3093 on: August 05, 2020, 09:59:14 PM »

Yeah I like Nevada too. Similar to Calif. but all straight arms.
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roadman65

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3094 on: August 06, 2020, 12:11:44 AM »

Yeah I like Nevada too. Similar to Calif. but all straight arms.
  However, the ones I see in Vegas have controller cabinets that are 7 feet tall.  The biggest cabinets for any signal controllers.  NYC of course the smallest with their click boxes that match the 1950's style mast arms they use.

Las Vegas up against NYC with biggest to smallest in technology.
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Sheryl Crowe

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3095 on: August 06, 2020, 12:46:49 AM »

This may have been asked before, but today after the tropical storm ran through NJ and took out power all over my area, a local signal I encountered was in flash mode.  However, I was surprised to see the priority direction get both a flashing yellow and a steady green at the same time.  The cross-street got a regular flashing red.  I don't think I've ever seen that before.  Is there some kind of temporary interval on certain systems that would ever show that in a fault/power outage (green + yellow) before going to just yellow flash (I assumed it did eventually, but didn't stick around to find out), or was there most likely something wrong with the signal? 

Pretty sure that was just a short in the controller. It may have been damaged in the storm. I can't imagine a controller would intentionally show conflicting aspects like that—it'd be a liability issue.
I just wasn't sure if there was some kind of short interim phase I wasn't aware of when it jumps to flash mode, since I can't recall the last time I happened to actually witness that transition during a power outage.  Assuming it's going to battery backup, I assume it completes the cycle to get traffic stopped at a solid red on the side street, and then jumps to flash mode directly so the priority road goes from green to yellow flash (and not both!).  At least it wasn't a true conflict, like red and green at the same time, or greens or yellows for all directions...
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jakeroot

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3096 on: August 06, 2020, 01:20:53 AM »

That's common in Northern Virginia too. Very sloppy in my opinion. You don't see that crap in California, my favorite state for traffic signals.

Well that's not because CA does better on specifying signal length (it doesn't), it's because they always mount the left turn signal at the end of the arm. If they would put more thru signals on then they would earn more points in my book. Current Nevada is my favorite state for signals. If you want a state that combines the CA curved mast with plenty of signals (and not making everything a protected-only left), look no further than Utah.

California is one of the few states that has a de facto requirement for both far left, far right and near right signals, in addition to anything overhead. Anything resembling a signal-per-lane requirement is going to produce a shit-ton of signals. Nevada is indeed this way, and I've always felt that many of their installations were a bit overkill. Though certainly much better than bog-standard FHWA. CA has a great setup right now IMO. Virtually no new approach has anything fewer than three through signals. Having 'through-minus-one' to calculate overhead signals helps spreads things out a bit, and definitely cuts down on overhead clutter. It's why you can have giant intersections that somehow don't feel completely shrouded in by signals, as they might be states that insist on signal-per-lane strategies.

Personally, I find post-mounted signals to be far more helpful than extra overhead signals. Why the FHWA would prefer states adopt signal-per-lane first, over more stringent post-mounting requirements, is beyond me. The amount of times I've entered intersections without post-mounted signals, and being completely blind thanks to a taller vehicle, is just sickening.

Utah is interesting, but their signal placement strategy is inexcusably poor for being completely surrounded by states that have far more stringent standards.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2020, 06:48:47 PM by jakeroot »
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jeffandnicole

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3097 on: August 06, 2020, 06:04:32 AM »

This may have been asked before, but today after the tropical storm ran through NJ and took out power all over my area, a local signal I encountered was in flash mode.  However, I was surprised to see the priority direction get both a flashing yellow and a steady green at the same time.  The cross-street got a regular flashing red.  I don't think I've ever seen that before.  Is there some kind of temporary interval on certain systems that would ever show that in a fault/power outage (green + yellow) before going to just yellow flash (I assumed it did eventually, but didn't stick around to find out), or was there most likely something wrong with the signal? 

Pretty sure that was just a short in the controller. It may have been damaged in the storm. I can't imagine a controller would intentionally show conflicting aspects like that—it'd be a liability issue.
I just wasn't sure if there was some kind of short interim phase I wasn't aware of when it jumps to flash mode, since I can't recall the last time I happened to actually witness that transition during a power outage.  Assuming it's going to battery backup, I assume it completes the cycle to get traffic stopped at a solid red on the side street, and then jumps to flash mode directly so the priority road goes from green to yellow flash (and not both!).  At least it wasn't a true conflict, like red and green at the same time, or greens or yellows for all directions...


Nah, just a conflict.  Lights are supposed to be just showing one color at a time, and if a light were to go out due to loss of electric, it would either just go out, or go to a flashing red/yellow or just all flashing red mode.

However when you add water to the mix, such as in a tropical storm where flooding occurs, you can have all sorts of issues (cold and ice don't mix well either sometimes, especially on older controllers).   It's not supposed to happen, but electric doesn't like to get wet, so stuff happens.
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STLmapboy

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3098 on: August 06, 2020, 05:18:02 PM »

Here's a New Haven, CT, mast arm with a separate arm for a CCTV camera. It's commendable alone for CT to have a decently thick mast. Any other signals with separate arms for TVs?
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SignBridge

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Re: Traffic signal
« Reply #3099 on: August 06, 2020, 05:34:23 PM »

Jakeroot, I agree with you that a well-balanced combination of overhead and pole mounted heads like Calif. uses is the best of all worlds.
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