Minnesota Notes

[froggie]

The "improvements" at the two MN 60 interchange are bridge replacements.

[SkyPesos]

With the talk of I-90's control cities in another thread, this got me wondering: is there a reason why I-90 is routed in the state the way it is (the US 16 route), instead of roughly paralleling MN 60 between Worthington and Mankato, then US 14 between Mankato and Rochester? With this routing, it would pass the two largest cities in the state south of the Twin Cities (Rochester and Mankato), and even the city it intersects I-35 at (Owatonna) is larger than Albert Lea. The distances in both routings between MN 60 in Worthington and US 52 east of Rochester is roughly the same too.

[DandyDan]

With the talk of I-90's control cities in another thread, this got me wondering: is there a reason why I-90 is routed in the state the way it is (the US 16 route), instead of roughly paralleling MN 60 between Worthington and Mankato, then US 14 between Mankato and Rochester? With this routing, it would pass the two largest cities in the state south of the Twin Cities (Rochester and Mankato), and even the city it intersects I-35 at (Owatonna) is larger than Albert Lea. The distances in both routings between MN 60 in Worthington and US 52 east of Rochester is roughly the same too.

According to Wikipedia, Albert Lea was larger than Owatonna in 1960, close to when Interstates were established, and Austin was (and remains) larger than Albert Lea. Considering how close it gets to the Hormel plant, I suspect whoever represented Austin in the Minnesota legislature back then had a big say in how the interstate got routed.

[froggie]

Also to consider:  back in the Interstate planning days, US 16 had more cross-state travel than US 14 did.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

Rochester wasn't really all that much more significant than those other cities at that time, either. It was only about the time the Interstates were laid out that Rochester's explosive growth started that has generally continued until today.

[froggie]

IMO...IBM, the Mayo Clinic, and the 4-laning of US 52 all had far more to do with Rochester's growth than I-90 did.

[andarcondadont]

IMO...IBM, the Mayo Clinic, and the 4-laning of US 52 all had far more to do with Rochester's growth than I-90 did.

Given that I-90 is over 10 miles away from downtown Rochester, I'd have to agree with you.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

IMO...IBM, the Mayo Clinic, and the 4-laning of US 52 all had far more to do with Rochester's growth than I-90 did.

Given that I-90 is over 10 miles away from downtown Rochester, I'd have to agree with you.

I apologize for this upcoming blunt comment, but I never implied Rochester exploding in the 1950s and the planning of I-90 were related. How could they be related? Is there just some way I speak that everybody I interact with in life always think I'm making some kind of unspoken assumption or correlation?

[froggie]

It was only about the time the Interstates were laid out that Rochester's explosive growth started that has generally continued until today.

This is the statement you made that I interpreted as that implication.  If that wasn't your intention, my apologies.

[Papa Emeritus]

Something I missed or wasn't previously announced; early July kicks off a three-year stretch of improvements on US 52 between Cannon Falls and Zumbrota. These include various reconstructions (mostly on the southbound lanes), a new interchange at MN 57, and improvements at both MN 60 interchanges. It does mention planned improvements at Goodhue CSAH 7 had to be scrapped for now due to financial constraints.

I'm starting to think the railroad crossing north of Cannon Falls will ultimately be the last thing to go on US 52. 

http://www.dot.state.mn.us/d6/projects/hwy52-hader-southbound-improvements/index.html

I have a dumb newbie question....but please bear with me:

With these improvements, how close are we to having a full limited access freeway from Eagan to Rochester?

After these improvements are done, what else would need to be completed?

[froggie]

While a number of access points and median crossings will be eliminated, there will be no fundamental change in controlled-access status as many private driveways and intersections will remain.  True, the project adds an interchange at MN 57, but there are properties in both directions from 57 that will retain at least RIRO access, including this one and this one.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

This weekend is the final scheduled full closure of I-35W between I-94 and Crosstown. Only two more months to go and the major work will be done.

[Papa Emeritus]

This weekend is the final scheduled full closure of I-35W between I-94 and Crosstown. Only two more months to go and the major work will be done.

With the end in sight for this project, MnDoT has announced the next major project: a rebuild of I-494 from Cedar Avenue to US 169. Work will be done between 2023 and 2026. The two biggest projects will be a flyover ramp from northbound 35W to westbound 494 that will significantly reduce congestion at this interchange, and MnPass lanes. More information here:

https://www.startribune.com/mndot-gets-60-million-federal-grant-to-upgrade-i-494-in-bloomington/600077093/

[Trademark]

Wish the next one was 94 between mpls and St paul

[froggie]

^ MnDOT's studying what to do with that one already.  Probably looking 2025ish timeframe and be a general reconstruction.  Given the howls from the city, I doubt you'll see additional lanes...if you do, it'll probably be along the lines of a "dynamic shoulder lane" (for buses/HOV) like what northbound 35W had north of 42nd pre-current-construction.

Though amongst some of the St. Paul urbanists, I've made the suggestion to add a HO/T lane along 94...and in return, drop a lane each way on University.  They haven't dismissed my suggestion.

[Mdcastle]

With all the auxiliary lanes, they could stitch them together and have a continuous 3 general plus one HOT lane while still talking out of both sides of their mouth, saying they're not really expanding the footprint and not really talking lanes away from single occupant drivers.

[froggie]

That wouldn't work west of 280.  And the uber-urbanists would readily catch on to that idea.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

The state working toward allocating money for the urbanists' deeply desired Rondo cap might appease some of them enough that they won't scream too loudly at anything that doesn't result in expanding the freeway's footprint and making the cap significantly more expensive than it already will be. The urbanist zealots, no, but I think many will accept that.

I don't drive I-94 between the downtown during rush as my normal patters, but does it really need a 10-laning or is the problem the stupid bottleneck through the Snelling interchange?

Anyway, on another note: the 60 MPH increase on I-394 went into effect in the last day or two. Drove it Monday and it was still 55, but was 60 when I drove it this evening. In addition, it appears the 40 section from 94 into downtown has been raised to 45.

[Trademark]

Ya I don't think it needs 10 lanes. 3 plus a HOT is perfect. Put in a bus station by snelling. Maybe cut the frontage roads down a lane and put in a protected bike lane in exchange too. If only a billion dollars would appear and we could do a real fix for 35w/94 and lowry tunnel.

[froggie]

Pre-pandemic, volumes between the downtowns were in the 150K-165K range, comparable to the 494 Bloomington Strip.  One could argue that you're approaching 10-lane territory there.  It's also considerably higher than 94 between 3rd/4th and 252/694, where they ARE planning 4+HOT.

[Papa Emeritus]

Pre-pandemic, volumes between the downtowns were in the 150K-165K range, comparable to the 494 Bloomington Strip.  One could argue that you're approaching 10-lane territory there.  It's also considerably higher than 94 between 3rd/4th and 252/694, where they ARE planning 4+HOT.

MnDoT is beginning a rebuild of I-94 in downtown St Paul this weekend. There's no indication of any plans to increase capacity:

https://www.startribune.com/two-year-freeway-construction-project-begins-sunday-in-downtown-st-paul/600078242/

[froggie]

^ That project is a pavement repair/resurfacing project.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

E-ZPass compatibility activation date set for August 2: http://www.dot.state.mn.us/ezpassmn/?fbclid=IwAR1S077oKfmqaVBXdowJdBF9TFZ4wIA0sDL5L-_Uc05iBrVlp63gFya4ki8

The MnPass designation will be phased out in favor of E-ZPass. Old MnPass tags will not be compatible with non-MnPass roads; users will need a new E-ZPass transponder if they want to use it in other states.

[on_wisconsin]

Just reading the literature from MnDOT, it looks like their version of EZPass may be the one to get for anyone looking pick one up. Only $25 for the unit and all models will (obviously) have an HOV Mode, no periodic fees etc...

http://www.dot.state.mn.us/ezpassmn/downloads/E-ZPass-MN-DigitalBro21.pdf

[SkyPesos]

Just reading the literature from MnDOT, looks like their version of EZPass may be the one to get for anyone looking pick one up. Only $25 for the unit and all models will (obviously) have an HOV Mode, no periodic fees etc...

http://www.dot.state.mn.us/ezpassmn/downloads/E-ZPass-MN-DigitalBro21.pdf

We might switch to the MN one once it's released if all of that is the case. My dad have probably paid at least $25 in monthly fees for Ohio's EZ Pass already, and the HOV option would be a nice to have on roads like I-77 Charlotte.