GPS mindlessness

[jdb1234]

There has also been one at TN-66/US 431/US 411 junction in Sevierville on TN-66/US 431 north.

Fan materials for Bristol say to use their directions and not the GPS.  This is in part because of the special traffic patterns around the race.

Don't you mean US 441 and not US 431?  For races at Talladega, the Birmingham News puts the special traffic patterns for the race in the newspaper.

[Alps]

I have a TomTom and it doesn't recognize Michigan Left turnarounds (especially on M-45 west of Grand Rapids).

Maryland is closing medians on US 301 faster than any mapping service seems to be able to keep up with them.

[mightyace]

There has also been one at TN-66/US 431/US 411 junction in Sevierville on TN-66/US 431 north.

Fan materials for Bristol say to use their directions and not the GPS.  This is in part because of the special traffic patterns around the race.

Don't you mean US 441 and not US 431?  For races at Talladega, the Birmingham News puts the special traffic patterns for the race in the newspaper.

Yep, you're right.

[OracleUsr]

I have a TomTom and it has its quirks, but I like it because sometimes it shows me routes I might not have thought of (like to my favorite train shop in Spencer, without having to go through downtown Salisbury) or didn't realize was faster.

[Stratuscaster]

I had similar routing issues, oddly enough, not too far from your anomaly. Taking I-94 east toward Indiana, the GPS would tell me to take the exit to Torrence Ave. (Illinois 83), only to merge back onto I-80/94 East. I saw what it was doing, but...the slip ramp is designed mainly for traffic entering from Illinois 394 and traffic looking to exit onto Torrence, not necessarily for through traffic.

Yup - I encountered that one, too.

It's goofy on North Ave/IL-64 through Dupage County where the left turn lanes are separated from the mainline by a median, so it tells me at every such intersection to "keep right on IL-64."

Does a similar thing with the I-PASS lanes on the tollways.

I think the 1390LMT has that "lane feature" you describe as well.

[Mr_Northside]

Mine also gets confused on roads with express/local configurations; the one that comes to mind is I-270 in Maryland. Even if we're heading to somewhere farther away, such as Pittsburgh (our destination last time we went past the end of I-270), it will have me start in the express carriageway and then it will tell me to exit into the local carriageway even though we're going way beyond the end of the express/local setup. There doesn't seem to be any rationale nor common sense to how it decides when to tell me to change over. I'd understand if it defaulted to the local carriageway simply under the principle of cautious guidance (for example, the sat-nav doesn't know how much gas you have in the tank), but it doesn't do that.

My best guess would be that somehow switching carriageways makes a more "straight" path, based on curves in the highway.  (Not sure if I can properly articulate this).  It may just be a matter of feet, negligible & unnoticeable to the driver (and defies the common sense of staying in the express lanes), but is logical to the computer.
At least, that's the only thing I can come up with.

[agentsteel53]

My best guess would be that somehow switching carriageways makes a more "straight" path, based on curves in the highway.  (Not sure if I can properly articulate this).  It may just be a matter of feet, negligible & unnoticeable to the driver (and defies the common sense of staying in the express lanes), but is logical to the computer.
At least, that's the only thing I can come up with.

so, basically, you are expected to take the "racing line", with two slip ramps as a part of it.  I can actually see a computer algorithm selecting this as the most optimal.

[1995hoo]

Mine also gets confused on roads with express/local configurations; the one that comes to mind is I-270 in Maryland. Even if we're heading to somewhere farther away, such as Pittsburgh (our destination last time we went past the end of I-270), it will have me start in the express carriageway and then it will tell me to exit into the local carriageway even though we're going way beyond the end of the express/local setup. There doesn't seem to be any rationale nor common sense to how it decides when to tell me to change over. I'd understand if it defaulted to the local carriageway simply under the principle of cautious guidance (for example, the sat-nav doesn't know how much gas you have in the tank), but it doesn't do that.

My best guess would be that somehow switching carriageways makes a more "straight" path, based on curves in the highway.  (Not sure if I can properly articulate this).  It may just be a matter of feet, negligible & unnoticeable to the driver (and defies the common sense of staying in the express lanes), but is logical to the computer.
At least, that's the only thing I can come up with.

Never thought of that, but it seems plausible to me because it's done some odd things like that on occasion. The last time we were coming back from Ottawa, when we passed through Scranton on I-81 it wanted us to take the I-84 exit and then get back onto I-81. The distance via that route is shorter by a minuscule amount, but most normal drivers wouldn't do it except maybe in heavy traffic. What's odd is that it doesn't always do that sort of thing–over in Maryland there's a similar spot on the Beltway at Exit 40 (Cabin John Parkway) where the distance via the exit ramp is slightly shorter, but it's never told me to run the ramps there.

I don't know whether that was the case on I-270 simply because I never paid close enough attention to notice. Usually if I'm on that road with the sat-nav on it's because I'm going a much longer distance and so I don't really need it in that area (plus there's usually enough traffic that paying attention to sat-nav details is not a priority). The one time I needed to have it on when I was on that road was when I went to the courthouse in Rockville for the first time and I didn't know where it was, and in that case there was a good reason for using the local lanes so it wouldn't have answered the question.



Edited to add: Thought of this a while after making the comment above. On the same trip back from Ottawa it did precisely the opposite thing at the southern end of Ontario 416 where it meets ON-401. The sat-nav's map showed the roads in the same configuration they have now (see map here), but instead of sending me on the direct connection onto 401 it wanted me to follow around to the left on that road that connects to Route 16 and the bridge to the USA, then get onto 401 from there. Obviously in this situation that's a longer distance, and there weren't any restrictions posted either (such as HOV) that would give it a reason to avoid the direct route. So perhaps it isn't purely a function of the shortest actual distance, but who knows.

[mightyace]

Of course, GPSes and GPS programs ARE mindless.  They have algorithms that follow sets of rules for doing routings.  If they had true artificial intelligence, they could be taught to have some "common sense" and avoid these mistakes.

Even so, I enjoy seeing these quirks.  They are amusing if they're not happening to you, anyway.  And, they are a stick in the eye to those people who pretend that we have "artificial intelligence" today.

As a society, I think we need to continue working on "natural intelligence".

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

Of course, GPSes and GPS programs ARE mindless.  They have algorithms that follow sets of rules for doing routings.  If they had true artificial intelligence, they could be taught to have some "common sense" and avoid these mistakes.

Even so, I enjoy seeing these quirks.  They are amusing if they're not happening to you, anyway.  And, they are a stick in the eye to those people who pretend that we have "artificial intelligence" today.

As a society, I think we need to continue working on "natural intelligence".

Just think what would have happened if we had "downloaded" the intended Dayton Roadmeet tour into everyone's GPS unit (considering all the detours we had to do on the fly). lol.

[bassoon1986]

Yeah it's always interesting when I keep the TomTom on when I'm trying a scenic route. Taking scenic 7 up through Arkansas for example. Especially when you travel north of I-40, it told me to make a u-turn for at least 20 minutes or more

[Alps]

Semi-related: When I was a kid (pre-Internet), I had a DeLorme CD. Then we got Internet, and I started off with Yahoo maps. Between one of those two programs, there was an option for shortest-distance route regardless of time. Given my dislike for Interstates on long-distance trips, I'm curious if any GPS or any online mapping service still provides that option.

[hbelkins]

Semi-related: When I was a kid (pre-Internet), I had a DeLorme CD. Then we got Internet, and I started off with Yahoo maps. Between one of those two programs, there was an option for shortest-distance route regardless of time. Given my dislike for Interstates on long-distance trips, I'm curious if any GPS or any online mapping service still provides that option.

I do know that my wife's Garmin has an option to avoid tolls. When she went to the Schaumburg area last fall, I routed her along I-80 to I-355 to keep her out of downtown Chicago afternoon rush traffic. (Of course traffic on I-80 was stop-and-go for awhile). The GPS kept nagging her to get off I-355 and onto some surface street to get to her hotel. Couldn't figure out why that was until we figured out there was an "avoid toll" option.

Given some of the routings that the Garmin generates, I think it almost by default picks the shortest option.

I think both DeLorme and MS Streets and Trips have a "shortest distance" option still.

[Stratuscaster]

My Garmins default to "fastest", but there is an option for "shortest."

[vtk]

There's an important distinction of terminology that not everyone in this thread is following:

GPS – a system consisting of orbiting satellites and mobile terrestrial equipment allowing the user of that equipment to determine the current time and the user's geographic location.

Sat-nav – a device consisting of GPS receiving equipment, digital maps, and routing software to progressively give the user turn-by-turn directions to a destination.

I usually use paper or digital maps and my own brain to get where I'm going. I sometimes use GPS, a digital map, and my own brain to get where I'm going. I sometimes use digital maps, routing software, and my own brain to decide which route to take later.  I don't buy sat-navs because they are expensive, and the map updates are just as expensive as the unit.  I don't use sat-nav capability on my smartphone except occasionally to evaluate the performance of the technology, and even then I don't follow turn-by-turn directions en route.

[Central Avenue]

Personally, I can get a good enough grasp of major highways from paper maps and my personal knowledge that I don't really need my phone to dictate them to me, so I only really find sat-nav useful when it comes to navigating city streets or rural side roads. For example, if I were driving from Columbus to a specific address in Parkersburg, I could easily figure out what major roads I need to take to get there, but once I'm in Parkersburg I might pull out my phone's sat-nav to help me around the local streets.

Unfortunately, it seems like these small details are exactly where a sat-nav's map is most fallible. Thankfully, it seems most errors in the maps are minor enough that you can still figure out where to go...provided you haven't fallen into the unfortunately common habit of blindly following the sat-nav's directions without even thinking about where you are and where you're going.

[1995hoo]

Semi-related: When I was a kid (pre-Internet), I had a DeLorme CD. Then we got Internet, and I started off with Yahoo maps. Between one of those two programs, there was an option for shortest-distance route regardless of time. Given my dislike for Interstates on long-distance trips, I'm curious if any GPS or any online mapping service still provides that option.

My sat-nav has five routing options: Direct Route (shortest distance period), Easy Route (fewest turns), Minimize Toll Roads, Minimize Freeways, and Maximize Freeways. Minimize Freeways is not available (button greyed out) if the destination is over 100 miles away. I believe one of the other options is also unavailable in that situation but I forget what it is–I usually leave it on Direct Route, although Wednesday I changed it to Maximize Freeways when it came up with a screwy route to Fort Myers Beach involving US-41 through Cape Coral instead of staying on I-75 (because the I-75 route was a longer distance, even if shorter time).

I assume–this is just a guess–that part of the reason for setting it up that way is the theory that someone who wants to change the setting to Minimize Freeways maybe knows his way well enough not to need the mapping, so they don't offer the option? I don't know. I'm of the opinion that you ought to make all the routing options available for all trips and if the user winds up on an intolerably slow drive because he chose Minimize Freeways on a drive from Miami to Vancouver, that's his fault for not checking the settings. I tend to feel people need to take some responsibility for themselves.

[hbelkins]

There's an important distinction of terminology that not everyone in this thread is following:

GPS – a system consisting of orbiting satellites and mobile terrestrial equipment allowing the user of that equipment to determine the current time and the user's geographic location.

Sat-nav – a device consisting of GPS receiving equipment, digital maps, and routing software to progressively give the user turn-by-turn directions to a destination.

That's anal-retentive nitpickery, just like those who refer to their GPS units (Garmins, Tom-Toms, Magellans, etc.) as GPSr (GPS receiver) rather than just GPS.

[Alps]

There's an important distinction of terminology that not everyone in this thread is following:

GPS – a system consisting of orbiting satellites and mobile terrestrial equipment allowing the user of that equipment to determine the current time and the user's geographic location.

Sat-nav – a device consisting of GPS receiving equipment, digital maps, and routing software to progressively give the user turn-by-turn directions to a destination.

That's anal-retentive nitpickery, just like those who refer to their GPS units (Garmins, Tom-Toms, Magellans, etc.) as GPSr (GPS receiver) rather than just GPS.

You inadvertently hit upon it - they're "GPS units." People use "GPS" as common slang for "unit", but "sat-nav" is something I never hear (outside of the last 4 posts).

[vtk]

The point is, I sometimes use GPS – just the plain GPS location-determining technology – for uses other than automated navigation.  It has other uses.  One of my uses of GPS that I didn't mention in my other post is to aid in mapping new roads for OpenStreetMap.  The point of this thread is clearly to talk smack about sat-navs and the people who use them mindlessly, but I don't want that mindlessness associated with GPS in general and its other uses.

[Stratuscaster]

I usually hear "sat-nav" used in European countries, while in the US it's "GPS" or just "nav."

Come to think of it, I think all the major automakers in their US marketing materials use "nav" or "navigation."

[1995hoo]

I picked up the term "sat-nav" from some British friends about six years ago and I've used that term ever since because it's more accurate than "GPS" and because I like the way it sounds.

On the Acurazine forum the built-in device is known as the "Navi" because that's what Acura dealers call it (the capitalization clarifies that one is referring to the built-in system that's an option on Acura vehicles). But that logic, while perfectly sound on a site relating to a specific car brand, would be illogical here.

[vdeane]

The point is, I sometimes use GPS – just the plain GPS location-determining technology – for uses other than automated navigation.  It has other uses.  One of my uses of GPS that I didn't mention in my other post is to aid in mapping new roads for OpenStreetMap.  The point of this thread is clearly to talk smack about sat-navs and the people who use them mindlessly, but I don't want that mindlessness associated with GPS in general and its other uses.

If someone doesn't realize that we're specifically talking about using GPS for navigation, they probably don't know that GPS even has other uses (most Americans don't, I would guess).

[doorknob60]

I use GPS (a Garmin), but I always look over the route it wants me to take before I start driving, and I always tend to know where I'm going without need of a GPS, it's just nice to have. Also, common sense is needed, which some people don't seem to have when using them, which is the real problem. I've never had a GPS try to lead me down an unsuitable or illogical path though.

[mtantillo]

I saw a 'do not listen to your GPS' sign in Tennessee in a construction zone on TN-66 in Gatlinburg in 2010.

another odd thing my TomTom does is at some (but not all!  I haven't figured out why) freeway splits it tells me to take the leftbound lanes.  for example, I-5 south at CA-170, it will tell me to stay on I-5 to get through Los Angeles.  But at the 134, it does not tell me anything.

I found something peculiar on mine on our last trip to Florida back in December. Normally when I encounter a split involving restricted lanes (be they HOV, bus, reversible, whatever) it understandably uses the conservative path of directing me to an unrestricted lane or telling me to go a different way. For example, it won't route me onto a road that may be HOV-restricted, even during non-HOV hours.

Don't get me started about that!! On Friday, I left my office (Tysons Corner) to drive to NY.  My dad was with me, but I had to drop my car at my apartment in Woodley Park, and my dad met me there and we left for NY from Woodley Park together.  So I'm familiar with the roadway network, but my dad isn't...and he had to use his backup GPS (the electronic one, as opposed to his primary GPS: me). 

So being 4th of July week with a lot of commuters absent from the roads, I jumped onto I-66 from Route 7, hit a minor backup, then crossed into DC and took Rock Creek Parkway.  I expected my dad to do the same, jump onto I-66, but I figured he would trail me by 10 minutes or so because his GPS would take him through downtown streets instead of onto the Parkway (afterall, GPS has no idea what times the parkway is one way).  35 minutes later, I'm still waiting for him to show up.  Apparently, GPS wouldn't route him onto I-66.  Aside from I-66, the nearest interstate freeway to Woodley Park is...the Beltway.  So my dad takes the Beltway, and he's stuck in long-distance holiday weekend traffic.  Then he had to go all the way down River Road and cut over to Connecticut from Wisconsin on side streets.  Took me 25 minutes, took him over an hour.  Thank you, GPS!