Cryptic word messages on traffic signs

[Kacie Jane]

But 3B.02 is about two-way roads.

Precisely.  Passing is a term that refers to two-way traffic.

So signs that say "Keep Right, Pass Left" or "Keep Right Except To Pass" are only meant to be used on two-way roads?

That said, while I agree with empirestate's interpretation, if I ruled the world (or just a DOT), I would never use a Do Not Pass sign in place of a Stay In Lane sign.

[theline]

^ Right on both points, Kacie Jane. I pass slower cars on the interstate on every trip, but "no passing" does not equal "stay in lane." Yet too many times the former is posted when the latter is meant.

[empirestate]

I'm still not convinced that 'DO NOT PASS' means the same thing as 'KEEP YOUR LANE' on a freeway.  Is that relation written in code somewhere?

I don't think it does either. "Stay In Lane" (I haven't seen your wording often) is more restrictive: you can't move out of your lane even for reasons other than overtaking. It's probably the more appropriate sign for a one-way roadway. "Do Not Pass" is sufficient for two-lane roadways, because there's really no reason to leave your lane other than for passing.

Precisely.  Passing is a term that refers to two-way traffic.

I don't buy that; I pass people all the time on freeways, by moving to their left, overtaking them, and moving back to the right. But I do make a distinction between that action, and simply happening to go faster than somebody (which often happens when I'm in the right lane whizzing by slow traffic in the middle and left lanes). Put another way, passing is something you do to traffic in front of you. Overtaking is what you do to traffic alongside you.

[1995hoo]

I can think of a situation where "DO NOT PASS" definitely doesn't mean "STAY IN LANE." I'm aware of a "DO NOT PASS" sign in the southbound HOV carriageway on I-95 near Newington, Virginia, that's there for a specific purpose: The HOV carriageway is reversible and there's a northbound flyover back into the general-purpose lanes at that point. When the lanes are pointing southbound, some people would use the exit lane for that ramp as a passing lane. So a "DO NOT PASS" sign was put up to denote that you could use the regular two travel lanes to pass as needed but you weren't supposed to be using that exit lane (deceleration lane).

I'm not sure if that sign is still standing because road construction began on that stretch of I-95 recently. Tried to find it on Street View but the image is older.

[The High Plains Traveler]

An abbreviation that is meaningful to local drivers can be extremely cryptic to out of towners. Last month we were driving westbound through Baton Rouge approaching the junction with I-10 and saw a VMS reading "2 LANES BLOCKED ON MRB". After about a mile of mulling that over I realized they must be referring to Mississippi River Bridge. Turned out the two lanes "blocked" were merely slow; two blocked lanes on that bridge would have been a disaster.

[Kacie Jane]

Turned out the two lanes "blocked" were merely slow; two blocked lanes on that bridge would have been a disaster.

I've run into this situation before... I think it's pretty likely that the lanes in question had in fact been blocked, but by the time you got to the site, the accident or whatever it was had been cleared, leaving only some residual delays.

[J N Winkler]

Another one for the cryptic-message file:  the advance guide and exit direction signs for Utah I-84 Exit 26 westbound--SR 83 South/Howell/ATK (each slash representing a line break).  What is a "Howell"?  What is an "ATK"?  Is "ATK" something that modifies "Howell," or vice versa?  It turns out that ATK is a far-from-obvious acronym for Alliant Techsystems, the current corporate incarnation of the space launch systems division of what used to be known as Morton Thiokol (of space shuttle O-ring infamy).

[empirestate]

Another one for the cryptic-message file:  the advance guide and exit direction signs for Utah I-84 Exit 26 westbound--SR 83 South/Howell/ATK (each slash representing a line break).  What is a "Howell"?  What is an "ATK"?  Is "ATK" something that modifies "Howell," or vice versa?  It turns out that ATK is a far-from-obvious acronym for Alliant Techsystems, the current corporate incarnation of the space launch systems division of what used to be known as Morton Thiokol (of space shuttle O-ring infamy).

Bringing up the follow-up question of when certain jargon-based abbreviations entered standard usage? IATA airport codes is an obvious example. LAX has been in common speech for a while, for example, but I saw a magazine in Fort Myers, FL recently called "RSW Living". Really? They have a magazine for squatters at the Southwest Florida Regional Airport??

So now stock symbols, of which "ATK" is an example, seem to be the next step.

And by the by, relating to airports, there are signs from the Hutchinson River Parkway in Harrison, NY that read "Harrison/County Airport". There is a line break, but it's no way apparent that the legend refers to the separate destinations "Harrison" and "[Westchester] County Airport". I've lived in NYS for 34 years and know every county backwards, yet I still find myself briefly wondering "wait...which county is Harrison County?"

[formulanone]

Bringing up the follow-up question of when certain jargon-based abbreviations entered standard usage? IATA airport codes is an obvious example. LAX has been in common speech for a while, for example, but I saw a magazine in Fort Myers, FL recently called "RSW Living". Really? They have a magazine for squatters at the Southwest Florida Regional Airport??

I suppose MIA (Miami) sounds obvious, so they took it a step further. RSW might be known by the locals, but outside of that, only pilots and some frequent fliers probably know that one. I suppose it serves the area from Naples to Fort Meyers, so it gives the area an "identity" of sorts.

Usually all the sign has to say is "International / Regional Airport", and I can tell if that's my exit. If it's a really small airport, they just use the green square logo with a generic plane on it.

"ATK"...I suppose if you know, you care about it, and if you don't, well...then it doesn't matter. Not that I had a clue, either.

[vtk]

Adopt-A-Highway
Litter Control

"AHP"

Yes, it even has "˜smart quotes' on the sign.

There's a nearby business (like a warehouse or distribution center, maybe) with a sign out front that says:

AHP
A DSG Company

...as if that makes it any more obvious.

[empirestate]

Bringing up the follow-up question of when certain jargon-based abbreviations entered standard usage? IATA airport codes is an obvious example. LAX has been in common speech for a while, for example, but I saw a magazine in Fort Myers, FL recently called "RSW Living". Really? They have a magazine for squatters at the Southwest Florida Regional Airport??

I suppose MIA (Miami) sounds obvious, so they took it a step further. RSW might be known by the locals, but outside of that, only pilots and some frequent fliers probably know that one. I suppose it serves the area from Naples to Fort Meyers, so it gives the area an "identity" of sorts.

Yeah, it's supposed to be a magazine for the Southwest Florida region, which I admit is unwieldy. But to pick the airport code, and not even an intuitive one, as your regional moniker? Seems pretty weird. When the practice first started (not just there, but in general) it struck me as kind of hi-falutin'. As in, "I'm hip and worldly enough that I know my airport code off hand, which means I can afford to fly a lot." ...Actually, that pretty much still goes on. :-)

[vtk]

CMH is often used to refer to central Ohio; as in other examples posted so far, the letters come from Port Columbus Int'l Airport.  (Columbus Metropolitan Hangar, though that hasn't been the airport's name in a long time.)

About as common as CMH is 614, our area code.

[Scott5114]

I'm sure the Weather Channel using the codes on their weather maps in the early 90s didn't help matters much. (I am not sure whether that was a conscious cartographic choice or a technological limitation of the WeatherStar 4000.)

[formulanone]

(Columbus Metropolitan Hangar, though that hasn't been the airport's name in a long time.)

I thought it was Columbus Municipal Hangar? ...which is actually kind of cool that they kept the old meaning.

I remember having an assignment in 3rd grade whereby I had to identify 20 airport codes as a weekly homework assignment. I recall getting four of them (FLL, BOS, BWI, MIA) only because I'd flown into/out of them as a kid. Thought it was a really "unfair" assignment, considering the available technology of the time...now I know way too many of them, due to work.

I suppose the letter codes fill less space on a map, so TWC used it. But how many people would know "MCO" for Orlando?

When the practice first started (not just there, but in general) it struck me as kind of hi-falutin'...Actually, that pretty much still goes on. :-)

Meh, no different than any other interest; it all eventually boils down to who knows more minutiae than the other guy. Go to a specific car forum, a photography forum, a travel forum; it's all acronyms and alphanumeric codes. After all, would the average Joe/Jane get half the I-99/I-238 quips, or would they think we're a bunch of AASHTO's?

Although I tend to agree, it's a bad idea for road signs, unless the acronym is very well-known.

[empirestate]

When the practice first started (not just there, but in general) it struck me as kind of hi-falutin'...Actually, that pretty much still goes on. :-)

Meh, no different than any other interest; it all eventually boils down to who knows more minutiae than the other guy. Go to a specific car forum, a photography forum, a travel forum; it's all acronyms and alphanumeric codes. After all, would the average Joe/Jane get half the I-99/I-238 quips, or would they think we're a bunch of AASHTO's?

Oh sure, hobbies and interests are one thing, but with airport codes there was no sense that people actually had a particular interest in aviation. Exclusivity for its own sake was the thing, not the details of the subject itself.

Like I say, though, I don't feel that way quite as much anymore. I don't know whether it's because airport codes have become more common knowledge, or because I myself have traveled much more extensively so that they've become familiar. Quite probably, a little of both.

[vtk]

(Columbus Metropolitan Hangar, though that hasn't been the airport's name in a long time.)

I thought it was Columbus Municipal Hangar? ...which is actually kind of cool that they kept the old meaning.

Yeah, probably Municipal.

[flowmotion]

When I was a teenager, there was a yellow diamond sign near my house which simply said WYE.

Why? (couldn't resist). My parents thought it was because the public bus used to do a three-point turnaround at that location. Of course, now I regret not taking pictures.


edit: Note I've never heard this usage elsewhere. US-101 in Marin County has a few "bus wyes", but they are just bus stops next to a CD ramp.

[1995hoo]

When I was a teenager, there was a yellow diamond sign near my house which simply said WYE.

Why? (couldn't resist). My parents thought it was because the public bus used to do a three-point turnaround at that location. Of course, now I regret not taking pictures.


edit: Note I've never heard this usage elsewhere. US-101 in Marin County has a few "bus wyes", but they are just bus stops next to a CD ramp.

No fork in the road? When I see "wye" I think of Hammels Wye on the IND Rockaway Line. I've never ridden through there but I've passed under it on the road hundreds of times. The "bottom leg" of the wye is actually in revenue service at the present time, a rarity in recent years.

[flowmotion]

When I was a teenager, there was a yellow diamond sign near my house which simply said WYE.

Why? (couldn't resist). My parents thought it was because the public bus used to do a three-point turnaround at that location. Of course, now I regret not taking pictures.


edit: Note I've never heard this usage elsewhere. US-101 in Marin County has a few "bus wyes", but they are just bus stops next to a CD ramp.

No fork in the road? When I see "wye" I think of Hammels Wye on the IND Rockaway Line. I've never ridden through there but I've passed under it on the road hundreds of times. The "bottom leg" of the wye is actually in revenue service at the present time, a rarity in recent years.

Late reply, but the "wye" was just a T intersection. I assume the bus must have turned, backed-up, and then turned again.

Also, not a traffic sign, but over the holidays I was hanging out with some Germans. We came across a sign which said POSTED NO DUMPING. They couldn't understand why it would say "posted" when it was obviously posted on a sign, and we couldn't explain it very well either.

[vtk]

I've seen other prohibitory-type signs that lead off with POSTED also, and I agree it's redundant.

[agentsteel53]

"POSTED" is probably mandatory legal verbiage for enforceability. 

so, why is it there?  because we have elected officials, that's why.

[1995hoo]

I've seen a lot of signs, usually in rural areas, that say "POSTED/NO TRESPASSING."

The requirements for what you do or do not have to post vary from state to state. For example, in some states it's OK to hunt unless the landowner puts up a sign prohibiting it; in other states, it's not OK to hunt unless the landowner gives you permission. The form of the sign required also varies from state to state. Most likely a lot of the "standard" signs you see on the market at places like Home Depot are made with the more restrictive states' laws in mind–some states explicitly require "posting" to exclude people. My guess is that the use of "POSTED" on signs is an overly cautious reaction to statutes that require "posting" of a notice prohibiting hunting or trespassing–most likely somebody saw that a "No Trespassing" restriction must be "posted" to be effective and overreacted by thinking it meant the word "Posted" was needed, and it then became customary in many places. (I do not know whether any state actually requires the inclusion of that word on the sign.) The use of redundancy in legal writing is way too common. Lots of attorneys start their court filings by putting the title in bold type ("Defendant flowmotion's Motion for Summary Judgment on the Issue of Posting") and then immediately using the title all over again as the first sentence ("Defendant flowmotion, by and through undersigned counsel, hereby files the following Motion for Summary Judgment on the Issue of Posting."). It's such a waste of space, especially if you have a page limit, but an awful lot of attorneys cannot begin to imagine filing a document that doesn't begin like that.

There was an article about the posting issue as it relates to hunting in a 2004 issue of the Duke Law Journal. Here's a .PDF link if anyone's interested: http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1238&context=dlj

[roadman]

When I was a teenager, there was a yellow diamond sign near my house which simply said WYE.

Why? (couldn't resist). My parents thought it was because the public bus used to do a three-point turnaround at that location. Of course, now I regret not taking pictures.


edit: Note I've never heard this usage elsewhere. US-101 in Marin County has a few "bus wyes", but they are just bus stops next to a CD ramp.

No fork in the road? When I see "wye" I think of Hammels Wye on the IND Rockaway Line. I've never ridden through there but I've passed under it on the road hundreds of times. The "bottom leg" of the wye is actually in revenue service at the present time, a rarity in recent years.

When I see "Wye", I immediately think of the old Wye Motor Lodge in Ducansville, PA - so named because it was located at a junction of two old Pennsylvania Railroad branch lines - the connections between the lines formed a wye - something that used to be common in railroad construction.

[KEK Inc.]

Apparently yellow traps are starting to be more common in Clark County since they've sprung up on many lights around here recently.  Honestly it's lazy signal programming... 

Anyone seen these before?

[RJ145]