District of Columbia

[froggie]

^ Presuming you're referring to the section of ramp between where D Street comes on and where the ramp splits to 395 and Maine Ave.  And it must've been a long time since you last used it because it's been that way for ~15 years now.  And the reason is simple:  not wide enough where it crosses under L'Enfant to have standard width (12ft) lanes and the minimum 2-ft buffer on each side.

[1995hoo]

^ Presuming you're referring to the section of ramp between where D Street comes on and where the ramp splits to 395 and Maine Ave.  And it must've been a long time since you last used it because it's been that way for ~15 years now.  And the reason is simple:  not wide enough where it crosses under L'Enfant to have standard width (12ft) lanes and the minimum 2-ft buffer on each side.

Don't make assumptions about other people. There haven't been lane markings at all on that ramp for years, but the ramp was de facto two lanes—regardless of the lack of striping, drivers typically formed two lanes. There is now bright new striping (diagonal hatching on both sides) to designate it firmly as but a single lane.

[froggie]

Sorry...was trying to get clarification on the specific section you were referring to.

DDOT narrowed that ramp when I was stationed in DC...ca 2008 or 2009 (verified by GMSV).  Sure, it was still used as 2 lanes by many (which speaks volumes about DC drivers), but the 2008-09 restriping they did technically made it too narrow for 2 lanes unless you rode the shoulder and hugged the barrier.

[noelbotevera]

Is there a reason behind this cloverleaf interchange at Irving Street and North Capitol Street near Fort Totten?

Notably, signage isn't very good. I'd expect a few gantries, but this is what you get:
Example 1
Example 2
Example 3

While this signage is likely because of DDOT maintenance, what makes things truly perplexing is that Irving Street returns to the same street (Michigan Avenue NW/NE) not far from the interchange. Yet North Capitol Street NE also intersects with Michigan Avenue near this interchange.

I suspect this is due to several hospitals plus CUA in the vicinity. I haven't been in this area of DC enough to know whether this cloverleaf is justified or not.

[Mapmikey]

Cloverleaf goes back to before 1963.  All the hospital stuff was there then, too.

Not an expert on DC roads but one possibility was that Irving was envisioned to extend past Michigan but then never did...

[machpost]

Here's some background. It's an interesting story: https://ggwash.org/view/65858/heres-why-dc-has-a-traffic-cloverleaf-at-north-capitol-and-irving

[mrsman]

Further south, North Capitol has some tight interchanges, going under NY Ave and RI Ave and avoiding those traffic signals there.  Given that, North Capitol is a pretty fast street, but knowing that DC has put up some speed cameras on the stretch and the speed limit is quite low for a semi-freeway, even a short one.

I have several ideas on how to improve the general area.  My ideas so fictional.

Conversion of the cloverleaf to a parclo A4.  Would reduce weaving.  Left turns are not recommended for a parclo B4 because of the median bike lane on Irving.

North Capitol along this stretch should be 2 lanes in each direction, not 3.  The 3rd lane can be used as an entrance/exit transition lane.  This is especially true southbound.  Why should the two lanes of North Capitol widen to 3 here as soon as you leave the signalized section.  If there were only 2 lanes SB, it would be easier to transition for traffic entering from Irving as they approach the Michigan Ave traffic signal.

At the northwest corner of the hospital, all of Irving's westbound traffic should transition to Kenyon and none to Hobart Pl.  Traffic heading southbound from Irving should just turn left on Park Place.  The entire westbound section of Hobart Place from here to Park Place can be filled in as grass.  This avoids the tricky merge of Hobart Pl westbound into Park Place. 

All-way stop (or traffic signal) where Park Place southbound and Hobart Place eastbound traffic cross.  If signalized, also put in a signal where Park Place southbound traffic hits Michigan Ave.  Better signage from Park Place to Columbia Road via Warder.

North of where the expressway portion ends, North Capitol is two lanes NB.  It stays this way until Crittenden street and then widens to 3 lanes, with the 3rd lane being parking/rush hour driving.  But then only 1/2 mile further up, the left lane forces a left onto Missouri Ave.  I prefer if the parking were full time parking and then parking eliminated approaching Missouri so that a left turn lane pocket is formed so that the two general lanes can continue northbound toward Blair or New Hampshire, where the majority of traffic is headed.

And yes, bigger signs at the Capitol/Irving interchange itself.

[TheStranger]

There are existing plans to reconfigure the North Capitol/Irving cloverleaf into a series of conventional intersections:
https://planning.dc.gov/page/north-capitol-crossroads

[machpost]

There are existing plans to reconfigure the North Capitol/Irving cloverleaf into a series of conventional intersections:
https://planning.dc.gov/page/north-capitol-crossroads

I wish DDOT employed some road design genius, but more often than not, it feels like when they redesign something, it only makes it worse.

[IMGoph]

There are existing plans to reconfigure the North Capitol/Irving cloverleaf into a series of conventional intersections:
https://planning.dc.gov/page/north-capitol-crossroads

I wish DDOT employed some road design genius, but more often than not, it feels like when they redesign something, it only makes it worse.

Can you give an example of something that was made worse?

[noelbotevera]

Here's some background. It's an interesting story: https://ggwash.org/view/65858/heres-why-dc-has-a-traffic-cloverleaf-at-north-capitol-and-irving

Wow, this was not a good idea. To connect Columbia Road and Irving Street to Connecticut Avenue near the Zoo would require absolutely destroying Columbia Heights (which was mostly African-American, and "obviously" meant free real estate to planners) and Rock Creek Park. Even the zoning maps posted in 1958 show those blocks west of Georgia Avenue already filled in.

It's also unclear how Irving Street was supposed to extend east. Somehow it would tie into something in Maryland, but what? There weren't any freeways in that direction at the time; the Beltway didn't even exist yet!

I wonder if the North Capitol Street freeway plans were supposed to be part of I-95 at one time. This article doesn't mention it, but it also doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility.

[1995hoo]

....

It's also unclear how Irving Street was supposed to extend east. Somehow it would tie into something in Maryland, but what? There weren't any freeways in that direction at the time; the Beltway didn't even exist yet!

....

Most likely I-95. Had it been built into the city, it would have run along the train tracks where the WMATA Red Line now also runs.

[Henry]

....

It's also unclear how Irving Street was supposed to extend east. Somehow it would tie into something in Maryland, but what? There weren't any freeways in that direction at the time; the Beltway didn't even exist yet!

....

Most likely I-95. Had it been built into the city, it would have run along the train tracks where the WMATA Red Line now also runs.

It might also have been I-70S, because it would start where I-95 split off for College Park. Unfortunately, that part had already been canceled when I-270 replaced it in 1975.

[froggie]

I wonder if the North Capitol Street freeway plans were supposed to be part of I-95 at one time. This article doesn't mention it, but it also doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility.

That was one of the alignments considered very early on.  But as Hoo noted, the selected alternative for I-95 was further east along the Met Branch.  Unlike what Henry said, it was not to be I-70S because the 95/70S split was planned further north near Fort Totten.

[machpost]

There are existing plans to reconfigure the North Capitol/Irving cloverleaf into a series of conventional intersections:
https://planning.dc.gov/page/north-capitol-crossroads

I wish DDOT employed some road design genius, but more often than not, it feels like when they redesign something, it only makes it worse.

Can you give an example of something that was made worse?

Dave Thomas Circle, so named for the Wendy's that used to occupy the space, is now on its second redesign in 20 or so years, and the previous changes didn't seem to improve safety or the flow of traffic for any mode of transportation. So I have little hope that the latest design will make much of a difference. And these days, their solution for everything seems to be putting down a bunch of those flexible delineator posts. Also, the freeways that run through DC are for the most part outdated designs that are terribly dangerous, yet they seem to make no effort to improve them.

Driving in DC is a dreadful experience overall, and while the bike lane infrastructure has improved dramatically over the years, they still have a long way to go and a lot of those projects have been successfully halted by NIMBYs. The Metro is easily the least stressful way to get form point A to point B these days.

[1995hoo]

I wouldn't say they've made no changes or that all their changes are failures. While it did include the use of the flexible posts, the way they restriped northbound I-395 (the eastbound Southwest–Southeast Freeway) to give traffic entering from the Ninth Street Tunnel its own lane was a huge improvement as to both traffic flow and safety. The old configuration left basically no room to merge and often required you to come to a complete stop, followed by gunning it if you thought you saw a gap.

The flexible posts are an unfortunate side effect of the way people drive around here. If they didn't have them in the location I just linked, people would be cutting to the left over the striped area to try to get ahead.

[Rothman]

I find driving in DC easier the closer to the Mall one gets.

[ElishaGOtis]

I find driving in DC easier the closer to the Mall one gets.

It helps that the mall is full of police.

[epzik8]

Driving in DC is a dreadful experience overall,

Biggest examples being New York Avenue as well as 7th/Georgia NW north of Florida Avenue.

[IMGoph]

Driving in DC is a dreadful experience overall,

Biggest examples being New York Avenue as well as 7th/Georgia NW north of Florida Avenue.

Both of these are mostly the result of cars with Maryland plates...

[epzik8]

Driving in DC is a dreadful experience overall,

Biggest examples being New York Avenue as well as 7th/Georgia NW north of Florida Avenue.

Both of these are mostly the result of cars with Maryland plates...

Oof...

[1995hoo]

WTOP reports that the DC Department of Transportation has asked AASHTO to void its application to renumber I-395 and I-695 and that any changes to the signage may be "years away."

Nearly four years after proposing more logical route and exit numbers, the District's Department of Transportation has asked federal officials to void the original deal in order to buy more time.

DDOT acting Director Sharon Kershbaum wrote to the American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials that the department now wants to withdraw its applications for the changes until it can actually move toward fixing the signage to "eliminate unintended confusion."

The article has a link to a .PDF copy of the letter in question, which the article describes as saying that "the agency needs an additional two to three years to figure out how to re-sign the freeway and tunnel in a way that makes sense to local and out-of-town drivers."

Then it says this:

The association's Special Committee on Route Numbering rescinded the application in April. The transportation organization sent a confirmation letter to DDOT on May 7.

The Federal Highway Administration is still weighing whether to accept DDOT's request for additional time.

[davewiecking]

2-3 years? Pretty sure a couple of people here could figure it out before finishing their morning coffee.

[74/171FAN]

I am not convinced that DC actually wants to fund the signage changes to begin with.

[WillWeaverRVA]

WTOP reports that the DC Department of Transportation has asked AASHTO to void its application to renumber I-395 and I-695 and that any changes to the signage may be "years away."

Nearly four years after proposing more logical route and exit numbers, the District's Department of Transportation has asked federal officials to void the original deal in order to buy more time.

DDOT acting Director Sharon Kershbaum wrote to the American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials that the department now wants to withdraw its applications for the changes until it can actually move toward fixing the signage to "eliminate unintended confusion."

The article has a link to a .PDF copy of the letter in question, which the article describes as saying that "the agency needs an additional two to three years to figure out how to re-sign the freeway and tunnel in a way that makes sense to local and out-of-town drivers."

Then it says this:

The association's Special Committee on Route Numbering rescinded the application in April. The transportation organization sent a confirmation letter to DDOT on May 7.

The Federal Highway Administration is still weighing whether to accept DDOT's request for additional time.

I mean, at this point why bother?