Roads that none of us will live to see built

[sp_redelectric]

Most anti-highway NIMBYs (and elected officials that pander to them) show up at public meetings and hearings regarding highway projects the same way that everyone else does - driving a single-occupant vehicle.  A few will make a show of car-pooling to the event, but most do not.

Reminds me of a "high capacity transit" meeting I went to some time ago, whereas I rode a bus to the meeting, most of the meeting facilitators from the transit agency and the MPO...drove.  The library's parking lot was a sea of "Exempt" license plated vehicles, many of which were sport utility vehicles.

One of the facilitators had the gall to tell me that the only purpose of a bus was to feed rail...then I pointed out the main bus line (line, not system) through our town served more towns and cities than our entire light rail system (multiple lines).

[Bigmikelakers]

710 Extension: Been hearing about various studies/proposals for years. I don't think its going to happen.

East LA Interchange Modernization: Extra lanes and carpool lane interchanges would surely bring it up to 21st century standards

Albuquerque Beltway

[cpzilliacus]

Most anti-highway NIMBYs (and elected officials that pander to them) show up at public meetings and hearings regarding highway projects the same way that everyone else does - driving a single-occupant vehicle.  A few will make a show of car-pooling to the event, but most do not.

Reminds me of a "high capacity transit" meeting I went to some time ago, whereas I rode a bus to the meeting, most of the meeting facilitators from the transit agency and the MPO...drove.  The library's parking lot was a sea of "Exempt" license plated vehicles, many of which were sport utility vehicles.

Promoters of passenger rail transit will frequently make claims that one rail line can carry as much traffic as a 4, 6, 8, 10, 12 or 14-lane freeway (you pick the one you like best), even though such claims are usually questionable - at best.

One of the facilitators had the gall to tell me that the only purpose of a bus was to feed rail...then I pointed out the main bus line (line, not system) through our town served more towns and cities than our entire light rail system (multiple lines).

For many railfans and rail promoters, that is the only use of a transit bus (never mind that forced transfers from bus to rail make the trip slower and less-convenient). 

But there's also a cynical side of this.  Rail transit is an expensive form of transportation (to build, maintain and operate), and those cynics see rail as a way to consume transportation dollars that might otherwise be spent to maintain or improve the highway network.

[NE2]

Ralifans are generally more open-minded about other modes than your average roadgeek. Hell, above we see a roadgeek referencing the old lie that roads pay for themselves.

[pctech]

The limiting factor on all of these projects is financing. Unless that issue changes, most of these new projects will never see the light of day.

[cpzilliacus]

Ralifans are generally more open-minded about other modes than your average roadgeek. Hell, above we see a roadgeek referencing the old lie that roads pay for themselves.

Please tell us what percentage of operating costs to run and (partially) maintain rail transit service in the United States is collected from fare-paying patrons. 

Then please tell us what percentage of capital costs to build and maintain rail transit service in the United States is collected from fare-paying patrons.

[NE2]

Please tell us what percentage of operating costs to run and (partially) maintain roads in the United States is collected from toll-paying patrons. 

Then please tell us what percentage of capital costs to build and maintain roads in the United States is collected from toll-paying patrons.

[mgk920]

Please tell us what percentage of operating costs to run and (partially) maintain roads in the United States is collected from toll-paying patrons. 

Then please tell us what percentage of capital costs to build and maintain roads in the United States is collected from toll-paying patrons.

At least here in Wisconsin, it's 100%.  I pay it every time I refuel the car and renew its plates.

Mike

[Cheesehead77]

US 12 bypass of Sauk City, WI.

US 2/53 bypass of Superior, WI

A solution to the development and resultant traffic signals along US 53/63 at Trego, WI.  Pretty much defeated the purpose of having a freeway/ expressway.

Anything WI needs from IL to help improve the roads connecting those two states...

[NE2]

Please tell us what percentage of operating costs to run and (partially) maintain roads in the United States is collected from toll-paying patrons. 

Then please tell us what percentage of capital costs to build and maintain roads in the United States is collected from toll-paying patrons.

At least here in Wisconsin, it's 100%.  I pay it every time I refuel the car and renew its plates.

Nope. Nowhere near 100%, unless you use bagger math.

[deathtopumpkins]

While it's different to find an unbiased source (of course all the public transit advocates are going to cite lower figures than highway advocates), a quick little bit of research I did out of my own curiosity revealed that roads pay for about 50% of their cost through gas tax, etc.

In fact, one source even proposed that we've spent $600,000,000,000 (that's right, six hundred billion) more on roads than we've taken in through taxes and fees in the past 60 years.

[bugo]

Transit is fine for dense cities like New York, but it will never work in a sprawled out city like Kansas City or Tulsa.  They would have to have thousands of buses for the system to be usable.  There is no place to build train tracks, so rail is out of the question.

[Alps]

While it's different to find an unbiased source (of course all the public transit advocates are going to cite lower figures than highway advocates), a quick little bit of research I did out of my own curiosity revealed that roads pay for about 50% of their cost through gas tax, etc.

In fact, one source even proposed that we've spent $600,000,000,000 (that's right, six hundred billion) more on roads than we've taken in through taxes and fees in the past 60 years.

I question if that's based on the gas tax only, because fact is, there are only two sources of revenue for roads: taxes/user fees, and borrowing.

[deathtopumpkins]

While it's different to find an unbiased source (of course all the public transit advocates are going to cite lower figures than highway advocates), a quick little bit of research I did out of my own curiosity revealed that roads pay for about 50% of their cost through gas tax, etc.

In fact, one source even proposed that we've spent $600,000,000,000 (that's right, six hundred billion) more on roads than we've taken in through taxes and fees in the past 60 years.

I question if that's based on the gas tax only, because fact is, there are only two sources of revenue for roads: taxes/user fees, and borrowing.

The source specifically claimed it was both the gas tax and user fees, but like I said, it's hard to find an accurate source.

[agentsteel53]

$600,000,000,000 (that's right, six hundred billion)

that's not that big a number.  twice that, and you still only get about ten years of empire building in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[Alps]

While it's different to find an unbiased source (of course all the public transit advocates are going to cite lower figures than highway advocates), a quick little bit of research I did out of my own curiosity revealed that roads pay for about 50% of their cost through gas tax, etc.

In fact, one source even proposed that we've spent $600,000,000,000 (that's right, six hundred billion) more on roads than we've taken in through taxes and fees in the past 60 years.

I question if that's based on the gas tax only, because fact is, there are only two sources of revenue for roads: taxes/user fees, and borrowing.

The source specifically claimed it was both the gas tax and user fees, but like I said, it's hard to find an accurate source.

There are other taxes that flow into roads. Pet projects can draw from a lot of different pots.

[Perfxion]

Since Texas loves its highways and freeways. I would venture to guess most money is from borrowing since this state's ever upward debt is due to the Infinite City Sprawls or ICS, like Houston and it's Metro Area are doing. Like being 65 miles out from downtown Houston and still consider is Metro Area. Public rails will not work, and the bus system is more than useless. Since the buses don't go into the burbs due to an odd NIMBYs that feel that brings in crime. So, one may need to drive 20 to 30 miles to the nearest bus stop to get on a bus to go into downtown.

I know that the state still gets money for I-xx and I-xxx roads, but that money isn't like 1958. It explains why they want to make an I-14 or I-510 on US290 and I know why they are gun ho about building and labeling I-69 ASAP. Not to mention the state highway projects like SH99, the Cosby freeway, and toll projects that will "pay for themselves" like Toll-49, but for a state screaming about being financially responsible, where is the money coming from for all this building?

[BigRedDog]

Speaking of rails, I think this thread has been de-railed.

[NYYPhil777]

Speaking of rails, I think this thread has been de-railed.

I'll get this thread back on track:

1. I don't think Tennessee Route 840's northern arc will ever get built. The road planners really wanted this built, and numerous studies were conducted, but now the state has the northern arc on hold. If ever built, 840 would be 186 miles long.
2. I-335 in Minneapolis will never be built.
3. New Jersey says that I-95 will no longer have that infamous gap and now be a full interstate in 2017. I'll believe it only when I see it.

Happy Roadgeeking,
NYYPhil777

[amroad17]

The off and on Raleigh-Norfolk freeway proposal.                                                                                                                                              US 219 from Salamanca, NY to Springville, NY.  I-72 across Missouri (interstate grade).                                                                                                                                         

[national highway 1]

Transit is fine for dense cities like New York, but it will never work in a sprawled out city like Kansas City or Tulsa.  They would have to have thousands of buses for the system to be usable.  There is no place to build train tracks, so rail is out of the question.

Ditto that with Los Angeles/the San Fernando Valley/ Ventura County/ Orange County/ Inland Empire, with the region being characterized by large amounts of urban sprawl. I'd really like the frequency of MetroLink to be much more frequent and a possible merger of the LACMTA Subway with MetroLink to form a hybrid rapid-transit system for whole the LA area, somewhat similar to the capabilities of BART. This idea could be considered for large metro areas in the West such as the Bay Area, PDX, Seattle, SLC, Phoenix, Albuquerque, DFW, San Antonio and Houston, which (except for the Bay area) are lacking a proper rapid-transit network.

[DTComposer]

http://www.scpr.org/programs/airtalk/2012/08/07/27762/what-happened-710-freeway-extension-project-los-an/

[SP Cook]

Please tell us what percentage of operating costs to run and (partially) maintain roads in the United States is collected from toll-paying patrons. 

Then please tell us what percentage of capital costs to build and maintain roads in the United States is collected from toll-paying patrons.

Umm, 100%.  The gas tax is a toll. 

[NE2]

Please tell us what percentage of operating costs to run and (partially) maintain roads in the United States is collected from toll-paying patrons. 

Then please tell us what percentage of capital costs to build and maintain roads in the United States is collected from toll-paying patrons.

Umm, 100%.  The gas tax is a toll. 

That's BS and you know it.

[pctech]

I've seen figures saying that tolls/taxes cover about  52% the cost of maintaining/building the highway system, the rest coming out of general revenue.