Challenges to NMSL?

[kphoger]

90% wrong.  Wow, maybe the Nazis really did win the war.  And maybe electrons aren't really negatively charged.  And maybe verbs aren't really action words.  And maybe Baroque music really came after Romantic.  And maybe J Robert Oppenheimer didn't really invent the nuclear bomb.  And maybe organisms aren't really made up of cells.  And maybe "caballo" isn't really Spanish for "horse".  I mean, with a 10% accuracy rate, some of this stuff is just bound to be wrong!

[NE2]

especially those meant for a fourth-grade audience.  history is all rah-rah-America-fuck-yeah; gotta indoctrinate those kiddos! 

And apparently in the South rah-rah-we-weren't-racist-no-sir.

[NYYPhil777]

90% wrong.  Wow, maybe the Nazis really did win the war.  And maybe electrons aren't really negatively charged.  And maybe verbs aren't really action words.  And maybe Baroque music really came after Romantic.  And maybe J Robert Oppenheimer didn't really invent the nuclear bomb.  And maybe organisms aren't really made up of cells.  And maybe "caballo" isn't really Spanish for "horse".  I mean, with a 10% accuracy rate, some of this stuff is just bound to be wrong!

And Christopher Columbus didn't discover the Western Hemisphere, it was Leif Erickson. All Columbus did was exploit the Caribbean natives and lie to his Spanish superiors.
I have an idea... If I-10 from Los Angeles to Jacksonville is the "Christopher Columbus Transcontinental Highway," then I-90 from Boston to Seattle could be the "Leif Erickson Transcontinental Highway!"

especially those meant for a fourth-grade audience.  history is all rah-rah-America-fuck-yeah; gotta indoctrinate those kiddos! 

That's probably the reason a lot of people don't like the United States.

[NYYPhil777]

Threatening states if they don't enact laws is the same as enacting the laws yourself. It should be illegal under the 10th Amendment. That goes for NMSL, BAC, drinking age, seat belt, age of majority, drug laws, etc., etc.

Unfortunately that's not the Supreme Court's view of the situation. They see it as Congress having the Constitutional power to disburse funds as they wish, and states having the power to reject the funds if they don't agree with the stipulation attached to them.

The Supreme Court has been shitting on state's rights for centuries now.  Almost every ruling they make favors federal power and corporate monopolies.

I always knew some areas of the United States were being promoted and others being discriminated against.
Example- It seems people are trying to promote the North while discriminating against the South. Like many companies based in cities like New York and Boston and Philadelphia trying to move to cities like Atlanta. In my opinion, that's their way of trying to remind the South that Washington, D.C. is their master, not Richmond.   

[agentsteel53]

I always knew some areas of the United States were being promoted and others being discriminated against.
Example- It seems people are trying to promote the North while discriminating against the South. Like many companies based in cities like New York and Boston and Philadelphia trying to move to cities like Atlanta. In my opinion, that's their way of trying to remind the South that Washington, D.C. is their master, not Richmond.   

wait, what?  how is attempting to do more business in Atlanta discriminating against the south?

[NE2]

And Christopher Columbus didn't discover the Western Hemisphere, it was Leif Erickson.

Actually it was the guys that crossed the Bering non-Strait long ago. Erickson and Columbus both rediscovered it, but only Columbus and his successors followed through on fucking the natives up. He certainly should get credit for starting the colonization of the Americas, but the problem is that this is presented as a good thing, and any unpleasantries are swept under the rug.

[Alps]

It's not that history books are 90% wrong in what they tell you. In fact, what they tell you is 90% true. It's that 90% of history is omitted from the textbooks, and a lot of it will inform you or change your understanding on historical events. Textbooks teach you the facts that go on finals and AP tests, and that's it.

[english si]

And Christopher Columbus didn't discover the Western Hemisphere, it was Leif Erickson.

Actually it was the guys that crossed the Bering non-Strait long ago.

Was that before or after there were guys in Iberia, or Nigeria (or Hibernia, but I have a feeling that it was under ice at the time)?

Oh, you mean the Americas, rather than the Western hemisphere*...

And surely, if they went via the Straight to get to the Americas, they were in the Western Hemisphere before then, surely?

*Note that a most of the venues where the Olympics were held earlier this month are in the Western Hemisphere - just in some cases as the Olympic Park isn't that far off the meridian. The Equestrian in Greenwich Park straddled two hemispheres (though I didn't spot the line, which is pretty obvious in that park for obvious reasons), and the North Greenwich Arena and ExCeL are in the Eastern Hemisphere, but the Olympic Park, Central London venues and all the non-East London/Essex venues all have minus latitudes.

[NE2]

You remind me of the people saying the the milennium begins in 2001. Sure, it does, but who cares? It's just another day of another year. And the Greenwich Meridian is just another of a nearly infinite number of possible meridians. In the context of exploration, Western Hemisphere obviously refers to the Americas, and you're just being a pedantic arse.

[Brandon]

You remind me of the people saying the the milennium begins in 2001. Sure, it does, but who cares? It's just another day of another year. And the Greenwich Meridian is just another of a nearly infinite number of possible meridians. In the context of exploration, Western Hemisphere obviously refers to the Americas, and you're just being a pedantic arse.

But, the millennium did start in 2001 as there is no year 0, and English Si is exactly right regarding the Western Hemisphere.  Don't be so obtuse, NE2.

[NE2]

^^^ SMH

[bugo]

We didn't learn anything in history about a lot of subjects.  For example, all that we were told about the Soviet Union was "they're bad, mkay."  I've been recently educating myself on the Eastern Bloc along with many other topics, and I've learned a lot of things that they didn't teach us in school.

[NYYPhil777]

And Christopher Columbus didn't discover the Western Hemisphere, it was Leif Erickson.

Actually it was the guys that crossed the Bering non-Strait long ago. Erickson and Columbus both rediscovered it, but only Columbus and his successors followed through on fucking the natives up. He certainly should get credit for starting the colonization of the Americas, but the problem is that this is presented as a good thing, and any unpleasantries are swept under the rug.

D**n, I forgot about the Asian and Russian descendents crossing the Bering non-Strait.

[NYYPhil777]

I always knew some areas of the United States were being promoted and others being discriminated against.
Example- It seems people are trying to promote the North while discriminating against the South. Like many companies based in cities like New York and Boston and Philadelphia trying to move to cities like Atlanta. In my opinion, that's their way of trying to remind the South that Washington, D.C. is their master, not Richmond.   

wait, what?  how is attempting to do more business in Atlanta discriminating against the south?

Because traditonally, Southerners would feel like seeing big downtowns and skyscrapers are being monsters on their traditions and lifestyles. Traditionally, the South has been agriculture and small-town charm. And you'll still hear "D**n Yankees" around the South when people talk of people from the North. Then again, Atlanta was never like every other city in the South- it was somehow destined to be a big city.

[english si]

You remind me of the people saying the the milennium begins in 2001. Sure, it does, but who cares? It's just another day of another year. And the Greenwich Meridian is just another of a nearly infinite number of possible meridians. In the context of exploration, Western Hemisphere obviously refers to the Americas, and you're just being a pedantic arse.

I'm sorry I thought that this had become the pedantic arse thread - criticizing school textbooks and 'common knowledge' lies.

Why use "Western Hemisphere" if you mean "the Americas"? It's shorter to write, more accurate, more precise.

[cpzilliacus]

You remind me of the people saying the the milennium begins in 2001. Sure, it does, but who cares? It's just another day of another year. And the Greenwich Meridian is just another of a nearly infinite number of possible meridians. In the context of exploration, Western Hemisphere obviously refers to the Americas, and you're just being a pedantic arse.

I'm sorry I thought that this had become the pedantic arse thread - criticizing school textbooks and 'common knowledge' lies.

Why use "Western Hemisphere" if you mean "the Americas"? It's shorter to write, more accurate, more precise.

And by the definition of "Western Hemisphere" you mean everything west of the Greenwich Meridian, then most of the U.K. and all of Ireland are in that half of the globe, in spite of their membership in the EU.

[1995hoo]

Methinks it's coming time for the mods to split this thread. Problem is that the nature of the topic (legal challenges to the NMSL) inherently lends itself to wandering off-topic given the nature of a discussion of constitutional law (itself a broad topic, but one related to the original subject), but some of the sniping about pedantry seems to belong somewhere else, doesn't it?

[agentsteel53]

Methinks it's coming time for the mods to split this thread. Problem is that the nature of the topic (legal challenges to the NMSL) inherently lends itself to wandering off-topic given the nature of a discussion of constitutional law (itself a broad topic, but one related to the original subject), but some of the sniping about pedantry seems to belong somewhere else, doesn't it?

this isn't pedantic yet... no one's mentioned the France/Brazil land border crossing 

[jeffandnicole]

Methinks it's coming time for the mods to split this thread. Problem is that the nature of the topic (legal challenges to the NMSL) inherently lends itself to wandering off-topic given the nature of a discussion of constitutional law (itself a broad topic, but one related to the original subject), but some of the sniping about pedantry seems to belong somewhere else, doesn't it?

The 55 mph limit is 90% wrong, Columbus gets credit for the the 55 mph limit even though Erickson discovered it first, the 55 mph limit crossed the France/Brazil land border completely ignoring the whole metric system issue, and the 55 mph limit began in Year 0 or 1, not including the days that were removed or added to the calender in various years in the 14th or 15th or 16th centery.

There...back on topic.

[vdeane]

especially those meant for a fourth-grade audience.  history is all rah-rah-America-fuck-yeah; gotta indoctrinate those kiddos! 

This.  Sadly, most people only learn this version of history.

And Christopher Columbus didn't discover the Western Hemisphere, it was Leif Erickson.

Actually it was the guys that crossed the Bering non-Strait long ago. Erickson and Columbus both rediscovered it, but only Columbus and his successors followed through on fucking the natives up. He certainly should get credit for starting the colonization of the Americas, but the problem is that this is presented as a good thing, and any unpleasantries are swept under the rug.

OK, this one annoys me enough that I'll pick it out of a flood of posts to respond.  Columbus did discover America.  He just wasn't the first human to do so (that, of course, is the Native Americans, from wherever they came from under your preferred theory).  But being first matters only in patents and the Guinness Book of World Records.  The Columbus discovery of America arguably had a greater impact on world history by far than all the others.

There...back on topic.

Is it just me, or have we had a lot of new people get their panties in a bunch whenever we go off topic lately?

[kphoger]

We didn't learn anything in history about a lot of subjects.  For example, all that we were told about the Soviet Union was "they're bad, mkay."  I've been recently educating myself on the Eastern Bloc along with many other topics, and I've learned a lot of things that they didn't teach us in school.

Interesting.  I knew a Polish guy who learned history under communist rule.  He talked about having to re-learn history after the curtain came down.  So here you are, un-learning what you've been taught about those on the east side of the curtain; and here he is, un-learning what he's been taught about those on the west side of the curtain.  Go figure.

[NYYPhil777]

especially those meant for a fourth-grade audience.  history is all rah-rah-America-fuck-yeah; gotta indoctrinate those kiddos! 

This.  Sadly, most people only learn this version of history.

And Christopher Columbus didn't discover the Western Hemisphere, it was Leif Erickson.

Actually it was the guys that crossed the Bering non-Strait long ago. Erickson and Columbus both rediscovered it, but only Columbus and his successors followed through on fucking the natives up. He certainly should get credit for starting the colonization of the Americas, but the problem is that this is presented as a good thing, and any unpleasantries are swept under the rug.

OK, this one annoys me enough that I'll pick it out of a flood of posts to respond.  Columbus did discover America.  He just wasn't the first human to do so (that, of course, is the Native Americans, from wherever they came from under your preferred theory).  But being first matters only in patents and the Guinness Book of World Records.  The Columbus discovery of America arguably had a greater impact on world history by far than all the others.

There...back on topic.

Is it just me, or have we had a lot of new people get their panties in a bunch whenever we go off topic lately?

Deanej, you're absolutely right about most people only knowing the "America-f*ck-yeah" version of United States history being a sad thing. In my honest opinion, it's a disgrace that would have the founding fathers spinning in their graves.
Yes- Columbus did discover America- for Spain. Just like Erickson did for the Nordics. The word America is named for Amerigo Vespucci.

[jeffandnicole]

especially those meant for a fourth-grade audience.  history is all rah-rah-America-fuck-yeah; gotta indoctrinate those kiddos! 

This.  Sadly, most people only learn this version of history.

And Christopher Columbus didn't discover the Western Hemisphere, it was Leif Erickson.

Actually it was the guys that crossed the Bering non-Strait long ago. Erickson and Columbus both rediscovered it, but only Columbus and his successors followed through on fucking the natives up. He certainly should get credit for starting the colonization of the Americas, but the problem is that this is presented as a good thing, and any unpleasantries are swept under the rug.

OK, this one annoys me enough that I'll pick it out of a flood of posts to respond.  Columbus did discover America.  He just wasn't the first human to do so (that, of course, is the Native Americans, from wherever they came from under your preferred theory).  But being first matters only in patents and the Guinness Book of World Records.  The Columbus discovery of America arguably had a greater impact on world history by far than all the others.

There...back on topic.

Is it just me, or have we had a lot of new people get their panties in a bunch whenever we go off topic lately?

If you're talking about me...I'm hardly new.

[vdeane]

Well, low post count, then.

[Alps]

Well, low post count, then.

Jeff was in MTR for years. You were still learning how to write cursive...