Best / worst region-specific practices?

[Scott5114]

Dislike:   They have too many state highways. Every road owned or maintained by the state has a number.

Isn't this true of most states (Massachusetts and Rhode Island are the only ones I can think of that don't do this)?

Oklahoma has a few non-numbered state highways, like Lincoln Boulevard in Oklahoma City, the Duncan Bypass, and a few which are shown in the control section book as numbered "0" (even in one case, a "0B"), none of which are signed.

[agentsteel53]

I'd love to see a 0 or a 0B get accidentally signed.

[kphoger]

Illinois
Like:   Speeding tolerated.   

Don't know what part of Illinois you're talking about, but on 1-64 they will get you for doing 72 [they did me]. This was because I did not realize that the speed limit went from 70 in Indiana to 65 in Illinois. As General Ackbar once said, it's a trap.

Some of the downstate state police districts get a bit bug nutty on speed when compared to the state police districts in northern Illinois and the Tollway state police district (District 15).  The situation gets bad down around places like Litchfield.

In southern Illinois, my experience is that people drive more slowly east of I-57 than west of I-57–by as much as 10 mph.  I never used to drive less than 62 mph on the two-laners or 70 on the Interstates, and never had any problems, even in the box truck I drove.

[jp the roadgeek]

When you've lived somewhere for a while, it's easier to point out the dislikes than the likes.  Here's a couple of interesting likes, then my dislikes.

Like: MA signs for towns that say Thickly  Settled.  Sounds like you're entering a sauce pan

Like: A couple of signs in CT for deaf children where the slow was put in the middle.  Reading from top to bottom, it would say "Deaf Slow Children"

Dislike: Empty marked off full lane divider between HOV lanes and regular lanes on I 84 and I 91 in CT (such as waste of space)

Really dislike: CT Phase III button copy reflective signage.  So many of the buttons are worn out you can't even read them at night any more.

Also dislike: inconsistent numbering vs. non-numbering of exits on short state routes.  Why CT 20 doesn't have exit numbers but the Milford connector does is beyond me.

Future wish: Put up route shields for major Secret State Routes longer than 2 miles. (ie CT 695)

[thenetwork]

I don't think I've ever seen a blinking red left turn signal.  does this mean I have to come to a stop before making the left turn, even though I can clearly see there is no one coming to intersect my path?

MDOT director Kirt Steudle was recently interviewed on the Frank Beckmann show and this topic came up.  This was his reply:

When you drive up to an intersection and there is nobody coming and the light is flashing red you are suppose to stop and then proceed.  But what everybody was doing, myself included and probably most of your listeners, is you see a flashing red light coming up and nobody is coming and you just whip right through it.  Well, you just violated the traffic law because you're supposed to stop and then proceed...(Aug 13, 2012)

The full interview can be found in the link below.  The topic came up after Oakland County Executive L. Brooks Patterson was involved in a serious accident at an intersection with a flashing yellow arrow.

http://www.wjr.com/FlashPlayer/default.asp?SPID=34613&ID=2512143

In the Metro Detroit area, I remember seeing lights that started off as solid reds then would then start flashing red after about 10-15 seconds, then would get the protected green arrow once the thru lights turned red.  I also remember single head right-turn arrows which would flash green at times. 

Nowadays, I believe the left turn signals either flash or stay red on the onset, and do not change until getting the green arrow.

In any event, I never got confused as to what the flashing reds & greens meant whenever I traveled in Michigan.

[Alps]

Dislike:   They have too many state highways. Every road owned or maintained by the state has a number.

Isn't this true of most states (Massachusetts and Rhode Island are the only ones I can think of that don't do this)?

Vermont has some unnumbered connectors - at least I don't believe they have internal numbers. It may be a Northeastern thing in general, though CT and NY assign internal numbers rather than none.
Also: Alaska. Bam.

[The High Plains Traveler]

Another nice touch (especially in Grand Rapids) is the blinking red left turn signal. The concept of left turns on either a green arrow or a blinking red light is great for moderate-flow intersections.

I don't think I've ever seen a blinking red left turn signal.  does this mean I have to come to a stop before making the left turn, even though I can clearly see there is no one coming to intersect my path?

This is the only known example in the Known Universe of a flashing red arrow compliant with MUTCD Figure 4D-8B. It is on the SE side of Pueblo at the intersection of U.S. 50 Business (Santa Fe Drive) and Northern Avenue. Of course, as I pulled into the left turn lane, the signal turned to green arrow, but the two lights on top are solid red arrow and flashing red arrow. You can argue whether there is sufficient obstruction to visibility of oncoming traffic from the short hill and high median to warrant the red rather than yellow arrow, but I think the determining factor was two left turn lanes here.


Santa Fe-Northern by The High Plains Traveler, on Flickr

The sign on the mast arm reads "Left Turn Must Yield On Flashing Red Arrow After Stop". This is part of the Colorado DOT saturation of the triangle formed by Colorado Springs, Cañon City and Pueblo with flashing turn arrows.




Post Merge: September 01, 2012, 11:44:36 AM

Is the predominant use of span wire for traffic signals a regional practice? From my travels I associate that with the upper Midwest and the Southeast. If so, I vote "dislike".

Michigan uses a lot of span wire.  Do you have a preference of diagonal spans or box spans?

Diagonal span example:


Box span example:

When I'm better at manipulating code within this board I can combine this with a previous post. If I am forced to have a span wire signalized intersection, I "prefer" box spans except for simple intersections with only one phase per direction. What I really hate to see is a diagonal span with multiple signals for each direction, i.e. both a left turn signal and a through signal. Signals with mast arms perpendicular to the direction of travel do this so much better, IMO.

As I intended in my original posting, "Upper Midwest" includes Indiana and Michigan, both of which are heavy span wire users. I don't remember what Ohio's preferences are.

[signalman]

As I intended in my original posting, "Upper Midwest" includes Indiana and Michigan, both of which are heavy span wire users. I don't remember what Ohio's preferences are.

Ohio uses spanwires extensively.

[Scott5114]

I'd love to see a 0 or a 0B get accidentally signed.

0 and 0B look like they might be old OK 33 alignments. Langston and Coyle.

[roadman65]

North Carolina uses two red ball signals for left turns.

New Jersey uses multiple mast arms at intersections as well as the only state to have signal heads on the left side of the road using back to back signal heads.  In fact, the Garden State has the most back to back signals anywhere? Plus along with CA, DE, and IL uses two signal heads for left turn signals while other states just follow MUCTD guidelines and go with one left turn signal head. I know this does not sound bad for most, but it is unique and there are some on this forum who do not like Jersey mast arm set ups.

[Brandon]

North Carolina uses two red ball signals for left turns.

New Jersey uses multiple mast arms at intersections as well as the only state to have signal heads on the left side of the road using back to back signal heads.  In fact, the Garden State has the most back to back signals anywhere? Plus along with CA, DE, and IL uses two signal heads for left turn signals while other states just follow MUCTD guidelines and go with one left turn signal head. I know this does not sound bad for most, but it is unique and there are some on this forum who do not like Jersey mast arm set ups.

It's an IDOT rule.  There must be two signal heads per movement, right turn or left turn signals, even five lamp towers, and a minimum of three signal heads per direction at each traffic signal.  That's why you'll see a typical setup of two towers, one pole-mounted on the left, one on the mastarm, and one three lamp signal head on the mastarm.  IDOT has had these rules for a long time, even when they used the trusses.

[Mergingtraffic]

I hate when there are two through lanes at an intersection and you get to the other side, the two through lanes aren't striped.  Just a wide lane that ends 500 feet later.  They should paint a couple broken lines on the other side. 

In the case in the link below, you can see at the I-84 off-ramp there are two through lanes and you get to the other side (Reidville Dr) and there is nothing, just a wide lane that can handle two lanes that end 500-700 feet later.  It was built for it, why isn't it striped that way?!?! It was at one point. 

This leads cars to use the right lane as the through lane and the left lane as an left-turn only lane.  I went through inthe left lane and people were honking at me b/c they thought it was one lane going straight.

http://www.google.com/maps?q=scott+road,+waterbury,+ct&hl=en&ll=41.539136,-73.009182&spn=0.002056,0.00232&sll=41.500765,-72.757507&sspn=1.4893,2.375793&t=h&hnear=Scott+Rd,+Waterbury,+Connecticut&z=19

This happens countless times in CT.

[vdeane]

Better idea: end one lane at the intersection as a turning lane.

[DaBigE]

North Carolina uses two red ball signals for left turns.

New Jersey uses multiple mast arms at intersections as well as the only state to have signal heads on the left side of the road using back to back signal heads.  In fact, the Garden State has the most back to back signals anywhere? Plus along with CA, DE, and IL uses two signal heads for left turn signals while other states just follow MUCTD guidelines and go with one left turn signal head. I know this does not sound bad for most, but it is unique and there are some on this forum who do not like Jersey mast arm set ups.

Have you been to Wisconsin? We have back to back signals on the left side (far-side/stopbar), as well as a minimum of two signals for turn lanes.

[roadfro]

New Jersey uses multiple mast arms at intersections as well as the only state to have signal heads on the left side of the road using back to back signal heads.  In fact, the Garden State has the most back to back signals anywhere? Plus along with CA, DE, and IL uses two signal heads for left turn signals while other states just follow MUCTD guidelines and go with one left turn signal head. I know this does not sound bad for most, but it is unique and there are some on this forum who do not like Jersey mast arm set ups.

Nevada also uses back-to-back signal heads for left turns, particularly at very wide intersections in the Las Vegas area. There are several examples near/along the Las Vegas Strip.

New installations in Nevada, for the last 15 years or more, have always used a minimum of two signal heads for left turns--one overhead on the mast arm and one far left pole mount tends to be the norm. Generally speaking, all new signals in Nevada will have one overhead signal per lane, plus a far side pole mount. One of the things I like about Nevada is incredibly consistent signal design practices.

[mp_quadrillion]

Is the predominant use of span wire for traffic signals a regional practice? From my travels I associate that with the upper Midwest and the Southeast. If so, I vote "dislike".

Going to Florida for spring training when I was seven (mid-1980s): the moment I unwittingly became a roadgeek. Florida uses span wire, numbers exits and only requires one license plate? It's like another country!

[Mdcastle]

Things I like about Minnesota traffic control
* Non span-wire, vertical only 12" signals with one on each side and one overhead for each lane and the street name on the signal.
* The state highway marker
* Both yield and merge signs used on freeway entrances.

Things I don't like
* No lighting on overhead signs.
* The "stretched font" for 3 digit interstates they used for a bit. (I saw some of it in Norfolk too)
* Spending all sorts of money on ADA complience for signals in the middle of nowhere.
* Too many protected only turns
* The new rectangular 3 digits state route shields that are sometimes used

[agentsteel53]

I don't mind the 3-digit rectangular Minnesota shields, but I do wish they had kept '61 spec US markers like they had for a very long time after it was superseded by the 1970 standard.

as for stretched fonts - that's not region-specific: there are idiots who abuse Illustrator in every DOT office!

[Ace10]

Really, it's neither. Most of these light types I've encountered have been on gentle straightaways. I just like this visual indication of permissive left turns...a lot better than the vague "Left Turn Signal" signs and more flexible than our strict "Left on Green Arrow Only" policy here.

I'm used to permissive left turns being completely unsigned and unsignaled. 

at a "left turn yield on [green ball]", I think to myself "well, of course"... and recently, I have to pause for a moment to parse a flashing yellow arrow, to remember that it isn't any different from its absence.

The FYA has the added benefit of telling left-turning drivers what the opposing traffic's signal is. Consider a left turn with or without arrows - it doesn't matter in this case. If you're at an intersection with a green ball, waiting for a break in opposing traffic, and your side's green light turns yellow, lots of drivers may assume that the other direction's light is also turning red and will attempt to make the turn, not knowing that opposing traffic may have an extended green - which you may know as the yellow trap.

The FYA fixes this. If the FYA also turns solid yellow along with your intersection (or for any other reason), you know it will not be safe to proceed through the intersection. However, if the FYA continues flashing, even if your intersection turns solid yellow, then red, you will still have time to assess if it is safe to turn. The opposing traffic's left-turners may have just gotten a green arrow while their through traffic has an extended green. The FYA continuing to flash lets left-turners know that they still have an opportunity to make the turn, but they should still continue yielding to oncoming traffic. The FYA turning solid yellow lets them know that they should not proceed and cannot assume that they can make it safely through the intersection.

Granted, drivers should not be entering the intersection on a yellow if they are already at a full stop; however, lots of drivers, myself included, try to clear an intersection if they're making a left turn, and assume that opposing traffic will also come to a complete stop when they may in fact be getting an extended green, or the left-turners in the opposite direction are about to get a green light. However, in that case, through traffic should be getting a red, but left-turning traffic should still be able to yield. You cannot do that with only a green ball, but you can with a FYA, and the FYA gives you more information on what the signal is for opposing traffic.

To stay on-topic, here in Biloxi, MS, a few intersections omit the solid yellow arrow for protected/permissive turns. Some have a 4-head traffic signal, and the green arrow simply extinguishes to signal the end of the protected turn phase. These intersections have been that way as long as I can remember, so their lack of a solid yellow arrow may have been OK in the MUTCD when they were constructed.

Some other intersections also use a red ball as opposed to a red arrow for dedicated turn signals (not doghouses). This can lead to some confusion if drivers cannot see the through signals but instead assume the whole intersection has a red light when they can only see the left turn signals. It can be even worse if the through signals are disabled, like with the recent hurricane we just had. There are a bunch of signals that are still dead, even a few green arrows, and it can be very frustrating not having traffic move as smoothly as possible.

One thing I would like to see - FYA for right turns at intersections with light to moderate traffic, so that each person making a right doesn't necessarily need to make a complete stop. Oh, and green arrows for right-turning traffic when the perpendicular traffic has a green left-turn arrow. They need to do that more here.

[jwolfer]

Is the predominant use of span wire for traffic signals a regional practice? From my travels I associate that with the upper Midwest and the Southeast. If so, I vote "dislike".

Going to Florida for spring training when I was seven (mid-1980s): the moment I unwittingly became a roadgeek. Florida uses span wire, numbers exits and only requires one license plate? It's like another country!

Most new signal assemblies are mast arms.  I read somewhere on a roadgeek site that within 10 miles of the coast only mast arms could be used.  Inland you still see new span wires. I like a neat span wire assembly

[Scott5114]

What is different about the 10 miles nearest the coast that makes it acceptable to put mastarms there?

[agentsteel53]

What is different about the 10 miles nearest the coast that makes it acceptable to put mastarms there?

I'm guessing it has to do with tropical storms.  they probably decided that some statistically important portion of them have high winds only 10 miles or closer to shore.

[Ace10]

What is different about the 10 miles nearest the coast that makes it acceptable to put mastarms there?

I'm guessing it has to do with tropical storms.  they probably decided that some statistically important portion of them have high winds only 10 miles or closer to shore.

Biloxi, MS has a mix of span-wire and mast arms, but I'd wager that most intersections south of the Back Bay use span-wire. The one place you see a lot of mast arm signals are in downtown near all the casinos and all along US 90.

[Brandon]

Really, it's neither. Most of these light types I've encountered have been on gentle straightaways. I just like this visual indication of permissive left turns...a lot better than the vague "Left Turn Signal" signs and more flexible than our strict "Left on Green Arrow Only" policy here.

I'm used to permissive left turns being completely unsigned and unsignaled. 

at a "left turn yield on [green ball]", I think to myself "well, of course"... and recently, I have to pause for a moment to parse a flashing yellow arrow, to remember that it isn't any different from its absence.

The FYA has the added benefit of telling left-turning drivers what the opposing traffic's signal is.

No more so than a five lamp tower.  You still can't tell what signal opposing traffic is getting.  A simple solution is to simply not allow the left turn if opposing traffic has a green light and a green left arrow instead of the Dallas phasing bullshit.

[NE2]

You still can't tell what signal opposing traffic is getting.

Only if the engineers fucked up. A flashing yellow is supposed to be tied to the opposing green, coming on even next to a red ball.