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Interstate 11 alignment, though Vegas and points north

Started by swbrotha100, October 16, 2012, 09:51:18 PM

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The Ghostbuster

How long might it take for the Interstate 11 designation to signposted north of the Interstate 215/NV 564 interchange all the way to the NV 157 interchange? I expect it to be awhile since the existing segment of Interstate 11 was only signposted in 2019.


Bobby5280

Hopefully they'll get I-11 posted up to the NV-157 interchange sooner than later. The sooner they do it means the sooner the Interstate could start inching its way Northwest. The leg up to Indian Springs and Creech AFB is an easy upgrade. I'm guess Nevada's I-11 upgrade efforts will progress from the Las Vegas area for the years (or decades) ahead until some kind of alignment gets figured out in the Reno region.

Max Rockatansky

Putting it out there that I think it's kind of silly to scope I-11 beyond the Nevada Test Site.  We are talking about 2,000-3,000 AADT north of there on US 95.  If you're willing to pass a truck on occasion the corridor as presently configured is adequate.

brad2971

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 09, 2022, 05:58:11 PM
For those who aren't aware of the 2022 AASHTO Fall Meeting Route Numbering decisions:

Item 3: Nevada, I-11   Approved
Action: Extension of a route or segment   
Description: The requested Interstate Route contains portions of existing roadways previously designated by legislative action and includes the following: Segment One (currently operating as IR-515) from the IR-215/SR 564 interchange along the IR-515 corridor and terminates at the United States (US) Route US 93/US 95/IR 515/IR-15 interchange.  Segment Two (currently operating as US 95) from US 93/US 95/IR-515/IR-15 interchange along the US 95 corridor to the North ramps of SR 157 (Kyle Canyon) in Clark County, NV.   

Do you have a link to the fall (or Spring) 2022 AASHTO meeting decisions? I've tried to find them on both in the forums and on AASHTO's site, but I've had no luck. Thank you!

74/171FAN

Quote from: brad2971 on December 09, 2022, 09:45:52 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 09, 2022, 05:58:11 PM
For those who aren't aware of the 2022 AASHTO Fall Meeting Route Numbering decisions:

Item 3: Nevada, I-11   Approved
Action: Extension of a route or segment   
Description: The requested Interstate Route contains portions of existing roadways previously designated by legislative action and includes the following: Segment One (currently operating as IR-515) from the IR-215/SR 564 interchange along the IR-515 corridor and terminates at the United States (US) Route US 93/US 95/IR 515/IR-15 interchange.  Segment Two (currently operating as US 95) from US 93/US 95/IR-515/IR-15 interchange along the US 95 corridor to the North ramps of SR 157 (Kyle Canyon) in Clark County, NV.   

Do you have a link to the fall (or Spring) 2022 AASHTO meeting decisions? I've tried to find them on both in the forums and on AASHTO's site, but I've had no luck. Thank you!

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=31383.msg2796348#msg2796348
I am now a PennDOT employee.  My opinions/views do not necessarily reflect the opinions/views of PennDOT.

Bobby5280

Quote from: Max RockatanskyPutting it out there that I think it's kind of silly to scope I-11 beyond the Nevada Test Site.  We are talking about 2,000-3,000 AADT north of there on US 95.  If you're willing to pass a truck on occasion the corridor as presently configured is adequate.

US-95 is 4-lane divided out past Indian Springs to the freeway exit for Mercury. I think I-11 could be built and signed at least that far in the near term. Past that point any future upgrades are up the air. The situation would be more clear if there was specific junction with I-80 defined. NV-439 looked like a great candidate up until recently. Now Elon Musk is doing a good job making anyone feel embarrassed to drive a Telsa. That PR trend line looks like it could get a whole lot worse.

As to the 2,000-3,000 AADT counts -that could change with a proper NAFTA-style corridor (or I-5 relief route) that bypassed California. If they don't want to build something like that then, yeah, Vegas to Phoenix would be the best use for I-11.

splashflash

Wouldn't it make sense to push the 4 lane divided up to the intersection with NV-160, north of Pahrump, and call it I-11 from there south?  Maybe route US 95 through Pahrump, or would that be just too confusing?

Bobby5280

#632
Quote from: splashflashWouldn't it make sense to push the 4 lane divided up to the intersection with NV-160, north of Pahrump, and call it I-11 from there south?  Maybe route US 95 through Pahrump, or would that be just too confusing?

I-11 upgrades from Las Vegas will have to be done bit by bit. Paiute Drive is another exit past NV-157. After that there is a handful of at-grade driveways between the intersection with NV-156. Then there's the prison complex (which obviously will need its own freeway exit). It's pretty much Creech AFB after that. Really, Nevada DOT could sell an I-11 upgrade to Indian Springs as one of DOD importance. Just West is Cactus Springs, which has a sort of frontage road configuration ready for a freeway exit. The freeway style exit for Mercury is after that. The 4-lane road drops to 2-lanes. But it would be really easy to expand US-95 to 4 lanes thru the intersections with NV-160 and even NV-373 at Amargosa Valley. Extending I-11 NW from Las Vegas is a pretty easy thing until the project reaches the Beatty area. After that? Some of the choices start to get complicated.

cl94

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 09, 2022, 09:41:37 PM
Putting it out there that I think it's kind of silly to scope I-11 beyond the Nevada Test Site.  We are talking about 2,000-3,000 AADT north of there on US 95.  If you're willing to pass a truck on occasion the corridor as presently configured is adequate.

Mmhmm. Unless you have a freeway fetish, it's pointless. Traffic already moves at freeway speeds along that stretch of 95. It won't cut travel times by enough to induce demand between Vegas and Reno away from airlines. That's still gonna be a 7+ hour drive with virtually nothing along the way apart from a few small towns that basically survive on the little through traffic that exists. NDOT has zero interest and, speaking as a Nevada resident, I don't want them wasting my money on a freeway that will get no use.

It is highly unlikely that this corridor will ever get enough traffic to warrant a freeway, let alone 4 lanes. There is nothing for over 300 miles and, more importantly, not enough water to support future growth. If you want to convert something in the western Great Basin to a freeway, US 395 is a little more reasonable.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: cl94 on December 11, 2022, 06:05:23 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 09, 2022, 09:41:37 PM
Putting it out there that I think it's kind of silly to scope I-11 beyond the Nevada Test Site.  We are talking about 2,000-3,000 AADT north of there on US 95.  If you're willing to pass a truck on occasion the corridor as presently configured is adequate.

Mmhmm. Unless you have a freeway fetish, it's pointless. Traffic already moves at freeway speeds along that stretch of 95. It won't cut travel times by enough to induce demand between Vegas and Reno away from airlines. That's still gonna be a 7+ hour drive with virtually nothing along the way apart from a few small towns that basically survive on the little through traffic that exists. NDOT has zero interest and, speaking as a Nevada resident, I don't want them wasting my money on a freeway that will get no use.

It is highly unlikely that this corridor will ever get enough traffic to warrant a freeway, let alone 4 lanes. There is nothing for over 300 miles and, more importantly, not enough water to support future growth. If you want to convert something in the western Great Basin to a freeway, US 395 is a little more reasonable.

Too much of the development of I-11 is predicated off a "build it and they will come"  mindset.  The priority ought to be getting the most direct Phoenix-Las Vegas corridor possible.  That's been outright ignored by ADOT given the preferred routing of I-11 is west of the White Tank Mountains.  At minimum there is actual money from developers and the city of Buckeye going into a freeway west of the White Tank.  The same situation doesn't exist in Nevada to drive the growth of I-11 north of Las Vegas. 

Sub-Urbanite

Quote from: cl94 on December 11, 2022, 06:05:23 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 09, 2022, 09:41:37 PM
Putting it out there that I think it's kind of silly to scope I-11 beyond the Nevada Test Site.  We are talking about 2,000-3,000 AADT north of there on US 95.  If you're willing to pass a truck on occasion the corridor as presently configured is adequate.

Mmhmm. Unless you have a freeway fetish, it's pointless. Traffic already moves at freeway speeds along that stretch of 95. It won't cut travel times by enough to induce demand between Vegas and Reno away from airlines. That's still gonna be a 7+ hour drive with virtually nothing along the way apart from a few small towns that basically survive on the little through traffic that exists. NDOT has zero interest and, speaking as a Nevada resident, I don't want them wasting my money on a freeway that will get no use.

It is highly unlikely that this corridor will ever get enough traffic to warrant a freeway, let alone 4 lanes. There is nothing for over 300 miles and, more importantly, not enough water to support future growth. If you want to convert something in the western Great Basin to a freeway, US 395 is a little more reasonable.

As we've probably discussed upthread, there are two main reasons to upgrade US95 from Vegas to I-80:


  • To improve safety, because there's a fatal crash on this stretch of road about once every 8 weeks.
  • To improve freight connectivity, both as a California bypass for freight moving from I-10 and I-40 to/from the Pacific Northwest, and for Nevada's economy discretely.

I don't think anyone's saying it's time to dump $5 billion into "overnight interstate" on US 95, but following the Arizona model from US 93 — twinning it in segments, building interchanges at the key intersections, finding funding as available for the major bypasses, that's the way to get it done and save lives. (Plus, because of the sparse nature of the western Nevada desert, you're probably looking at what, 20? exits between Mercury and Fallon? Maybe 25?)

And let's be honest - if the Eisenhower largesse were raining down on America today (ahh, the days of the 91% income tax brackets...) and we were building an Interstate System from scratch, this would be on the map.

US 89

Quote from: Sub-Urbanite on December 12, 2022, 05:44:47 PM
And let's be honest - if the Eisenhower largesse were raining down on America today (ahh, the days of the 91% income tax brackets...) and we were building an Interstate System from scratch, this would be on the map.

Oh, it probably would be, but you'd have the chorus of "whyyy did we spend money on this?" Just like some people complain now about four-laning stuff like I-95 in Maine, I-15 in northern Montana, or I-70 in Utah.

Rothman



Quote from: Sub-Urbanite on December 12, 2022, 05:44:47 PM
Quote from: cl94 on December 11, 2022, 06:05:23 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 09, 2022, 09:41:37 PM
Putting it out there that I think it's kind of silly to scope I-11 beyond the Nevada Test Site.  We are talking about 2,000-3,000 AADT north of there on US 95.  If you're willing to pass a truck on occasion the corridor as presently configured is adequate.

Mmhmm. Unless you have a freeway fetish, it's pointless. Traffic already moves at freeway speeds along that stretch of 95. It won't cut travel times by enough to induce demand between Vegas and Reno away from airlines. That's still gonna be a 7+ hour drive with virtually nothing along the way apart from a few small towns that basically survive on the little through traffic that exists. NDOT has zero interest and, speaking as a Nevada resident, I don't want them wasting my money on a freeway that will get no use.

It is highly unlikely that this corridor will ever get enough traffic to warrant a freeway, let alone 4 lanes. There is nothing for over 300 miles and, more importantly, not enough water to support future growth. If you want to convert something in the western Great Basin to a freeway, US 395 is a little more reasonable.

As we've probably discussed upthread, there are two main reasons to upgrade US95 from Vegas to I-80:


  • To improve safety, because there's a fatal crash on this stretch of road about once every 8 weeks.
  • To improve freight connectivity, both as a California bypass for freight moving from I-10 and I-40 to/from the Pacific Northwest, and for Nevada's economy discretely.

I don't think anyone's saying it's time to dump $5 billion into "overnight interstate" on US 95, but following the Arizona model from US 93 — twinning it in segments, building interchanges at the key intersections, finding funding as available for the major bypasses, that's the way to get it done and save lives. (Plus, because of the sparse nature of the western Nevada desert, you're probably looking at what, 20? exits between Mercury and Fallon? Maybe 25?)

And let's be honest - if the Eisenhower largesse were raining down on America today (ahh, the days of the 91% income tax brackets...) and we were building an Interstate System from scratch, this would be on the map.

Nobody paid those 91% brackets.  There were many, many more available deductions back in those old days.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

skluth

Quote from: Rothman on December 12, 2022, 07:17:58 PM
I don't Nobody paid those 91% brackets.  There were many, many more available deductions back in those old days.

Exactly. I remember my first partner bitching about interest for credit cards being removed as a tax deduction. He actually paid his cards off monthly after that.

abqtraveler

Quote from: skluth on December 12, 2022, 10:48:39 PM
Quote from: Rothman on December 12, 2022, 07:17:58 PM
I don't Nobody paid those 91% brackets.  There were many, many more available deductions back in those old days.

Exactly. I remember my first partner bitching about interest for credit cards being removed as a tax deduction. He actually paid his cards off monthly after that.
Back when there were 91% brackets, from what I've read, only a handful of people (less than 10) paid the full 91% rate, and they were the richest of the rich at the time who could afford to give the IRS 91% of their earnings and still have plenty to live lavishly.
2-d Interstates traveled:  4, 5, 8, 10, 15, 20, 24, 25, 27, 29, 35, 39, 40, 41, 43, 45, 49, 55, 57, 64, 65, 66, 69, 70, 71, 72, 74, 75, 76(E), 77, 78, 81, 83, 84(W), 85, 87(N), 89, 90, 91, 93, 94, 95

2-d Interstates Clinched:  12, 22, 30, 37, 44, 59, 80, 84(E), 86(E), 238, H1, H2, H3, H201

Rothman

Quote from: abqtraveler on December 12, 2022, 11:24:53 PM
Quote from: skluth on December 12, 2022, 10:48:39 PM
Quote from: Rothman on December 12, 2022, 07:17:58 PM
I don't Nobody paid those 91% brackets.  There were many, many more available deductions back in those old days.

Exactly. I remember my first partner bitching about interest for credit cards being removed as a tax deduction. He actually paid his cards off monthly after that.
Back when there were 91% brackets, from what I've read, only a handful of people (less than 10) paid the full 91% rate, and they were the richest of the rich at the time who could afford to give the IRS 91% of their earnings and still have plenty to live lavishly.
Given the old tax code, I find this very hard to believe.  When rich, you pay your accountants to lessen your liability and there were ample opportunities to do so.

Didn't change until Reagan messed with the brackets and greatly reduced deductions.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

roadfro

Quote from: Bobby5280 on December 10, 2022, 12:44:55 AM
Quote from: splashflashWouldn't it make sense to push the 4 lane divided up to the intersection with NV-160, north of Pahrump, and call it I-11 from there south?  Maybe route US 95 through Pahrump, or would that be just too confusing?

I-11 upgrades from Las Vegas will have to be done bit by bit. Paiute Drive is another exit past NV-157. After that there is a handful of at-grade driveways between the intersection with NV-156. Then there's the prison complex (which obviously will need its own freeway exit). It's pretty much Creech AFB after that. Really, Nevada DOT could sell an I-11 upgrade to Indian Springs as one of DOD importance. Just West is Cactus Springs, which has a sort of frontage road configuration ready for a freeway exit. The freeway style exit for Mercury is after that. The 4-lane road drops to 2-lanes. But it would be really easy to expand US-95 to 4 lanes thru the intersections with NV-160 and even NV-373 at Amargosa Valley. Extending I-11 NW from Las Vegas is a pretty easy thing until the project reaches the Beatty area. After that? Some of the choices start to get complicated.

I agree that pushing I-11 any further than SR 157 will be a piecemeal process. They could get it up to Indian Springs/Creech AFB with very little effort: Interchanges at Corn Creek/Desert National Wildlife Refuge, SR 156, Cold Creek (prison complex), Creech AFB main/east entry, and one or two for Indian Springs itself. There'd probably need to be a bit of realignment or reconstruction in and near Indian Springs (since the Creech AFB border comes so close to US 95 ROW, although the northern frontage road could probably be eliminated since the AFB took up all the commercial properties that used to be along it years ago), and there may need to be a new frontage road in some places to maintain local access.

You could push it further to the existing Mercury (test site) interchange by putting in one more interchange at Cactus Springs. Although, I'm not sure that there's anything relevant at Cactus Springs any more besides a couple residences.

After Indian Springs and Mercury, though, the AADT drops significantly. So twinning and adding interchanges for eventual interstate status will really become an exercise in cost-benefit analysis. Yes, it would be fairly easy to make it interstate even north of Beatty (with some town bypasses), but the benefit decreases.

Quote from: cl94 on December 11, 2022, 06:05:23 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 09, 2022, 09:41:37 PM
Putting it out there that I think it's kind of silly to scope I-11 beyond the Nevada Test Site.  We are talking about 2,000-3,000 AADT north of there on US 95.  If you're willing to pass a truck on occasion the corridor as presently configured is adequate.

Mmhmm. Unless you have a freeway fetish, it's pointless. Traffic already moves at freeway speeds along that stretch of 95. It won't cut travel times by enough to induce demand between Vegas and Reno away from airlines. That's still gonna be a 7+ hour drive with virtually nothing along the way apart from a few small towns that basically survive on the little through traffic that exists. NDOT has zero interest and, speaking as a Nevada resident, I don't want them wasting my money on a freeway that will get no use.

It is highly unlikely that this corridor will ever get enough traffic to warrant a freeway, let alone 4 lanes. There is nothing for over 300 miles and, more importantly, not enough water to support future growth. If you want to convert something in the western Great Basin to a freeway, US 395 is a little more reasonable.

I wouldn't say NDOT has zero interest, given the scoping study they started a few years ago...

I'm a native Nevadan. I grew up in Las Vegas, went to college in Reno and still live there. While in college, I made the Vegas—Reno drive multiple times a year, and still do it at least once a year. From that perspective, I would love for I-11 to exist to make that drive a little easier and to avoid the slowdowns of going through each town along the way–it would probably shave another half hour or so off the journey.

But the practical part of me agrees with cl94. NDOT's dollars would be much better spent directed towards areas that need it: future phases of Reno Spaghetti Bowl, Las Vegas' Downtown Access Project on current I-515, US 395 north valleys improvements, I-580 exit 1 in Carson, local projects for the rural towns, etc. NDOT has wisely spent some money along the US 95/future I-11 corridor in recent years, constructing a few truck climbing lanes and a passing lane section along the US 6 concurrency–more investment of this type would be a much greater cost-benefit in the near and middle term. A full freeway, while a roadgeek's dream, just isn't realistic unless outside factors drastically change.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

thsftw

It almost seems easier to just use parts of 395 to create the rest of the freeway (it's built as 580 already down to Carson City anyways) and could either cut over to Fallon on 50 to meet 95 or just keep going down the 395 corridor to Bishop and over to 6 since 395 is largely expressway in those sections.

kdk

Quote from: roadfro on December 13, 2022, 11:30:09 AM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on December 10, 2022, 12:44:55 AM
Quote from: splashflashWouldn't it make sense to push the 4 lane divided up to the intersection with NV-160, north of Pahrump, and call it I-11 from there south?  Maybe route US 95 through Pahrump, or would that be just too confusing?

I-11 upgrades from Las Vegas will have to be done bit by bit. Paiute Drive is another exit past NV-157. After that there is a handful of at-grade driveways between the intersection with NV-156. Then there's the prison complex (which obviously will need its own freeway exit). It's pretty much Creech AFB after that. Really, Nevada DOT could sell an I-11 upgrade to Indian Springs as one of DOD importance. Just West is Cactus Springs, which has a sort of frontage road configuration ready for a freeway exit. The freeway style exit for Mercury is after that. The 4-lane road drops to 2-lanes. But it would be really easy to expand US-95 to 4 lanes thru the intersections with NV-160 and even NV-373 at Amargosa Valley. Extending I-11 NW from Las Vegas is a pretty easy thing until the project reaches the Beatty area. After that? Some of the choices start to get complicated.

I agree that pushing I-11 any further than SR 157 will be a piecemeal process. They could get it up to Indian Springs/Creech AFB with very little effort: Interchanges at Corn Creek/Desert National Wildlife Refuge, SR 156, Cold Creek (prison complex), Creech AFB main/east entry, and one or two for Indian Springs itself. There'd probably need to be a bit of realignment or reconstruction in and near Indian Springs (since the Creech AFB border comes so close to US 95 ROW, although the northern frontage road could probably be eliminated since the AFB took up all the commercial properties that used to be along it years ago), and there may need to be a new frontage road in some places to maintain local access.

You could push it further to the existing Mercury (test site) interchange by putting in one more interchange at Cactus Springs. Although, I'm not sure that there's anything relevant at Cactus Springs any more besides a couple residences.

After Indian Springs and Mercury, though, the AADT drops significantly. So twinning and adding interchanges for eventual interstate status will really become an exercise in cost-benefit analysis. Yes, it would be fairly easy to make it interstate even north of Beatty (with some town bypasses), but the benefit decreases.


I made the drive between LV and Reno round trip 5 times in the past year.

there have been some additional improvements this summer.  I believe Nye County has taken these on.  Between Amargosa Valley and Beatty they have widened the shoulders, added turning lanes at a few intersections and there is an additional passing lane in each direction.  NB 95 now has two passing lanes between Beatty and Goldfield, in addition to a truck climbing lane.  SB doesn't for some reason though.

I'm surprised the AADT drops significantly north of Mercury.  My experience is four lanes are needed up to Beatty.  It may be when I travel, mostly in the summer, but with the truck traffic and particularly the RV traffic, the drive between Mercury and Beatty can be particularly tough.  Passing one truck is doable, but when you end up with a slow moving line of 10 vehicles, it's pretty much impossible to safely pass and end up driving 45-50 mph.  I think the Death Valley tourism traffic is a big part of this up to Beatty, so maybe AADT is high in the summer and less in the off season periods.  North of Beatty, and additional passing lane NB closer to Beatty, and a few SB would be sufficient for now, as well as another passing lane closer to Hawthorne.

Bobby5280

Quote from: thsftwIt almost seems easier to just use parts of 395 to create the rest of the freeway (it's built as 580 already down to Carson City anyways) and could either cut over to Fallon on 50 to meet 95 or just keep going down the 395 corridor to Bishop and over to 6 since 395 is largely expressway in those sections.

If I-11 was routed through Fallon there would be no point at involving I-580 at all. I-11 would just go West from Fallon to meet I-80 in Fernley by following along or near the Alt US-50 corridor.

If I-11 was routed down I-580 with the intent to go to Las Vegas the route would have to follow US-395 down almost to Topaz Lake then turn East along/near NV-208 to Smith Valley. And then there would be the fun part, cutting a mountain pass in order to connect to US-95 at Walker Lake. Such a thing is do-able (there are dirt roads going off US-95 into the mountains by Sportsmans Beach). Still, for high speed commercial traffic some tunneling would be likely.

I still think the most realistic option is using NV-439 from I-80 down to Silver Springs and then using parts of Alt US-95 to reach US-95 somewhere near or North of Schurz. There is an interesting possibility to bypass Walker Lake to the East (using CR-89) to create a more direct path to Tonopah.

Nevada just has so many damned rows of North-South running mountain ranges.

cl94

Quote from: roadfro on December 13, 2022, 11:30:09 AM
I wouldn't say NDOT has zero interest, given the scoping study they started a few years ago...

I'm a native Nevadan. I grew up in Las Vegas, went to college in Reno and still live there. While in college, I made the Vegas—Reno drive multiple times a year, and still do it at least once a year. From that perspective, I would love for I-11 to exist to make that drive a little easier and to avoid the slowdowns of going through each town along the way–it would probably shave another half hour or so off the journey.

But the practical part of me agrees with cl94. NDOT's dollars would be much better spent directed towards areas that need it: future phases of Reno Spaghetti Bowl, Las Vegas' Downtown Access Project on current I-515, US 395 north valleys improvements, I-580 exit 1 in Carson, local projects for the rural towns, etc. NDOT has wisely spent some money along the US 95/future I-11 corridor in recent years, constructing a few truck climbing lanes and a passing lane section along the US 6 concurrency–more investment of this type would be a much greater cost-benefit in the near and middle term. A full freeway, while a roadgeek's dream, just isn't realistic unless outside factors drastically change.

Zero interest is probably a slight exaggeration, but it would not surprise me if that study was intended to satisfy federal requirements for a congressionally-designated corridor more than an actual intent to build in the medium term. I would be shocked if anywhere close to half of the corridor is full freeway by 2050 and it looks like NDOT has barely done anything with 11 north of Vegas since 2018.

I've gone through some of the public comments and there is a ton of concern from towns along 95 about a freeway potentially killing downtown businesses. Given experiences elsewhere, these are probably more founded than the claim a freeway will bring economic development, especially given how far many of these towns are from the rest of civilization. It doesn't appear that they have done a full cost-benefit analysis yet. They have done a decent environmental analysis and the results of that aren't pretty, especially north of Tonopah.

As far as route, they've all but eliminated anything that doesn't follow 95 or 95A due to cost, environmental concerns, and resource availability. If it's ever built, it will hit 80 somewhere between 439 and 95. 580 becoming I-11 is a roadgeek pipe dream due to terrain and how built up the 395 corridor is south of 580.

Short to medium term, the only things I can really see them doing are spot improvements and maaaaaybe extending the divided highway north or constructing one where crashes are an issue. A full freeway or even expressway-grade road is ludicrous for most of the corridor unless traffic counts triple. Not saying they couldn't, but you'd need major changes in development and transportation patterns for that to happen. For comparison purposes, I-80 bottoms out at a little over 6,000 east of Wells, more than double the lowest count along the study corridor and more than the highest count between Mercury and Fallon.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

Bobby5280

#646
Quote from: cl94I've gone through some of the public comments and there is a ton of concern from towns along 95 about a freeway potentially killing downtown businesses. Given experiences elsewhere, these are probably more founded than the claim a freeway will bring economic development, especially given how far many of these towns are from the rest of civilization. It doesn't appear that they have done a full cost-benefit analysis yet. They have done a decent environmental analysis and the results of that aren't pretty, especially north of Tonopah.

Small towns in remote areas, such as Tonopah and Goldfield, have already been losing population. In the best case scenario (the federal government fast-tracks a Vegas-Reno I-11 project and provides nearly all the funding) it would probably take at least 10 years to get any bypass projects for Tonopah and Goldfield completed. In the meantime both towns could lose hundreds more residents they really can't afford to lose. Goldfield could practically be a ghost town by 2040; there's barely over 200 residents there now. Tonopah has a population of only a couple thousand people.

What these small towns are going through is not unique. Small towns and rural areas across the US have been shedding more and more of their living, working-age, tax-paying residents to cities and suburbs. The remaining residents get older and die-off. It costs a lot of money to staff a public school or provide various city services. Many older Americans like small-town living, but they need more in the way of health care or assisted living services, which are more available in cities and suburbs.

If Nevada actually builds out a leg of I-11 from Las Vegas to Reno and builds that highway in the same manner Interstates are currently being built it will take them 30 or more years to do it. By the 2040 time frame towns like Beatty, Goldfield and Tonopah may have lost enough population that NDOT wouldn't have to build any town bypasses. The highway could just be plowed straight through.

Max Rockatansky

Goldfield is down from a peak population of somewhere between 10,000-15,000, effectively it is a ghost town already.  The only reason Goldfield has any relevance at all is due to it still being the Esmeralda County seat.  Tonopah, Hawthorne and Beatty are the only locales on US 95 between Vegas-Fallon with an actual active pulse.  Mina, Luning and Coaldale are all similarly corpse-like as Goldfield.

Bobby5280

#648
According the US Census Goldfield had around 400 residents in the 2000 Census and was down to around 250 by 2010. Now it's just over 200.

If I was living in some small rural Nevada town with a grim future I'd be trying to get a new Interstate highway to come to my town rather than block it. If NDOT was absolutely determined to build-out I-11 between the Vegas and Reno areas there are do-able alignments that can bypass many of those towns entirely.

Beatty can by bypassed fairly easily to the West. Traveling North on US-95 you just veer off to the left several miles South of Beatty. I-11 could cross NV-374 near the Titus Canyon Trailhead and have a fairly open gap through some rocky hills. Then it could shoot North directly across some flat land, re-joining US-95 a few miles North of the NV-267 intersection.

Goldfield and Tonopah could both be bypassed by sending I-11 to the West near Silver Peak (population 120) and overlapping NV-265 up to the US-95/US-6 junction.

Both of those bypasses would shave significant mileage off the I-11 route, especially that corner jog thru Tonopah. The lack of service stations along the way would be an issue if those towns were bypassed. But at the rate those towns are going there's no guarantee highway service related businesses in those towns will be able to survive over the coming decades. Oklahoma's turnpikes have some service plazas. A remote I-11 thru Nevada might need some of the same types of service plazas.

Mina (pop 177) and Luling (pop under 100) take up such small footprints in the valley NDOT would have no problem going well around either town and still be miles away from mountain slopes.

Hawthorne has around 3100 residents and is sustained for the most part by the Hawthorne Army Depot. I could imagine the US Army seeing some value in having an improved highway connection there. They mainly use rail for a lot of equipment movement, but good highways also help with logistics. The town of Hawthorne already has a bypass of sorts going around it.

Sub-Urbanite

Quote from: cl94 on December 14, 2022, 12:32:17 AM

I've gone through some of the public comments and there is a ton of concern from towns along 95 about a freeway potentially killing downtown businesses. Given experiences elsewhere, these are probably more founded than the claim a freeway will bring economic development, especially given how far many of these towns are from the rest of civilization. It doesn't appear that they have done a full cost-benefit analysis yet. They have done a decent environmental analysis and the results of that aren't pretty, especially north of Tonopah.

One has to be kind of pragmatic about this.

Beatty, Tonopah and Hawthorne are spaced well enough that they're going to be fine as service centers.

Beatty has national park gateway access so it has a secondary economic support.

Tonopah has lithium mining and government so it has a secondary economic support.

Hawthorne has the ammo depot and has a secondary economic support.

The other whistle-stops — Goldfield, Mina, Luning, Lathrop Wells — there's not a lot of hope there as it is.



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