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Author Topic: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway  (Read 137968 times)

ET21

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #525 on: March 21, 2018, 12:26:32 PM »

Has anyone been following the recent O'Hare expansion news? It seems they are going to build a new western screening/parking facility in the upcoming expansion with access from the new York Road ramp they are building as part of the EOWA. The facility will initially be for employee's only, but will eventually expand to include passengers in Phase 2 (which will come when O'Hare hits 100 million passengers). At that point, they may include ramps into the facility from the actual IL-390/I-490. Details can be found in the following document.

https://chicago.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=5865932&GUID=47615DD9-B4CF-4C80-974F-DACB35050FA0 (Warning, this is a 300+ page document, so it may take a bit to load).

Thoughts?

All depends if CN will continue to be bitches and not let them build over their trains. Otherwise they have everything pretty much set to expand, and have been moving dirt the last 2 months getting ready to start up 490
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abefroman329

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #526 on: March 22, 2018, 02:12:30 PM »

Anything that unclogs I-190 would be great.
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edwaleni

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #527 on: April 11, 2018, 12:43:08 PM »

Has anyone been following the recent O'Hare expansion news? It seems they are going to build a new western screening/parking facility in the upcoming expansion with access from the new York Road ramp they are building as part of the EOWA. The facility will initially be for employee's only, but will eventually expand to include passengers in Phase 2 (which will come when O'Hare hits 100 million passengers). At that point, they may include ramps into the facility from the actual IL-390/I-490. Details can be found in the following document.

https://chicago.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=5865932&GUID=47615DD9-B4CF-4C80-974F-DACB35050FA0 (Warning, this is a 300+ page document, so it may take a bit to load).

Thoughts?

All depends if CN will continue to be bitches and not let them build over their trains. Otherwise they have everything pretty much set to expand, and have been moving dirt the last 2 months getting ready to start up 490

Its actually CP Rail. Canadian Pacific.

CP isnt totally to blame here. There are some other issues in play.

IDOT wants CP to help pay for a new bridge over 290 so they can widen tbe approaches to the EOH.  Also IDOT wants to erect a temp bridge which CP vehemently objects too. With CP having predecessant rights, IDOT should pay 100% for a new bridge. The law supports that.

The other issue is that ISTHA doesnt want all air rights over CP Bensenville Yards, (like 294 has) they want condemn parts of it for their use. CP being a rail carrier with predecessor rights on the land technically cant be condemned by the state for land acquisition being regulated at the federal level by the STB.

Usually the state offers to pay for any relocations due to any large public needs. Just look at the UP reroute around OHare that was done in the 1950's when it was CNW.

But CP says they (ISTHA) should offer market rates if they are serious about the land instead of going cheap with an condemnation suit.

So yes, CP are holding things up, when you see why, you see that some planner at ISTHA should have gotten his ROW issues with CP agreed too up front before breaking ground. A clear duh moment and a sign of some hubris at ISTHA.
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ET21

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #528 on: April 11, 2018, 03:29:20 PM »

I'll throw this in here too, from Illinois Tollways Thread:

Looks like we have some action in terms of I-490/390. Sound barriers have begun to go up along York Road on the west side of the road and demarcations of ramp extensions have started to get outlined with some land leveling for roadway/piers
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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #529 on: May 01, 2018, 12:24:04 PM »

I'll throw this in here too, from Illinois Tollways Thread:

Looks like we have some action in terms of I-490/390. Sound barriers have begun to go up along York Road on the west side of the road and demarcations of ramp extensions have started to get outlined with some land leveling for roadway/piers
Is 490 going to overlay York Rd in the same way 390 did to Thorndale?
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Joe The Dragon

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #530 on: May 01, 2018, 01:15:33 PM »

I'll throw this in here too, from Illinois Tollways Thread:

Looks like we have some action in terms of I-490/390. Sound barriers have begun to go up along York Road on the west side of the road and demarcations of ramp extensions have started to get outlined with some land leveling for roadway/piers
Is 490 going to overlay York Rd in the same way 390 did to Thorndale?
no
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Revive 755

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #531 on: May 01, 2018, 10:27:37 PM »

I'll throw this in here too, from Illinois Tollways Thread:

Looks like we have some action in terms of I-490/390. Sound barriers have begun to go up along York Road on the west side of the road and demarcations of ramp extensions have started to get outlined with some land leveling for roadway/piers

The Google Earth Imagery has been updated for parts of Chicagoland.  It would appear there may be some grading for the future I-490 main lanes east of York Road.  Also looks like there may be a couple stubs on IL 19 for future ramps - one near the Cargo Road stoplight, another near the railroad overpasses.
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ET21

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #532 on: May 02, 2018, 08:21:37 AM »

I'll throw this in here too, from Illinois Tollways Thread:

Looks like we have some action in terms of I-490/390. Sound barriers have begun to go up along York Road on the west side of the road and demarcations of ramp extensions have started to get outlined with some land leveling for roadway/piers

The Google Earth Imagery has been updated for parts of Chicagoland.  It would appear there may be some grading for the future I-490 main lanes east of York Road.  Also looks like there may be a couple stubs on IL 19 for future ramps - one near the Cargo Road stoplight, another near the railroad overpasses.

They've been working on grading east of York Road for a good 3 months now, and just started to do some more digging on the west side of York within the last month.
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edwaleni

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #533 on: May 07, 2018, 07:20:10 PM »

Here is an update from the other side of the dispute (via Trains website)

CHICAGO – One year ago, the Surface Transportation Board urged mediation to resolve a longstanding dispute between Canadian Pacific and Illinois officials over access to CP’s Bensenville Yard. These days, both sides are still talking without outside help.

In a joint letter to the federal regulators dated May 1, attorneys for CP and the Illinois State Toll Highway Authority say they want at least until June 7 to continue talks before participating in board-sponsored mediation.

As of Friday, the STB had not responded, but the board has insisted in the past that such disputes “typically can be better resolved collaboratively by the private sector than by an imposed solution” by the agency.

A spokesman for CP says that the railroad believes “we are making progress.”

A Tollway spokesman says “positive conversations” are continuing with not only CP but with the City of Chicago on an agreement to allow the Tollway to cross the CP tracks to create western access into O’Hare without disrupting CP’s operations.

The two sides are fighting over the Tollway’s efforts to use part of the rail yard for a $3.4-billion highway project intended to enter nearby O’Hare International Airport from the west and skirt the airport’s western border.

Both had been negotiating access for four years until CP broke off talks in April 2016, saying CP and its subsidiary, Soo Line, “have no intention of selling any interest in this property,” according to a tollway filing with the STB.

The Tollway has asked the STB for a declaratory order clearing the way for it to condemn property in order to build a new toll road on bridges over CP’s rights-of-way and, eventually, through the Bensenville Yard.

CP argued that it will be “significantly and permanently damaged” by the toll authority’s efforts to force the railroad to grant easements on its right-of-way and enable construction of a new toll road over and, ultimately, through the rail yard.
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Rick Powell

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #534 on: May 10, 2018, 11:24:10 PM »

One way or another, the Tollway and the railroad will settle up, and “who pays”, “how much” and “what design concessions are made” decided. Hopefully the two parties will work it out, but the STB process is there to back it up, and this won’t be the first tricky situation they have arbitrated in the Chicago area if it comes to that. Many readers here will remember the complex decision rendered by the STB in the CN purchase of the EJ&E. Some communities reached a voluntary agreement with the CN, while others continued to fight thru the STB process.
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ET21

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #535 on: January 23, 2019, 12:52:13 PM »

Supposedly sometime this year (likely the summer) we should start seeing some action/pier construction to connect the east end of 390 to the new 490 based on the construction timeline.
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edwaleni

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #536 on: January 24, 2019, 07:16:22 AM »

Per Crains Chicago Business (11/29/18)

Western access to O’Hare gets a little closer

The tollway board has approved a memo of understanding with a second railroad for a needed land exchange and access rights for the Elgin-O’Hare Expressway.

Another piece in the puzzle of opening western road access to O’Hare International Airport fell into place today when the Illinois Tollway board approved a memo of understanding with Union Pacific Railroad for a needed land transfer for the Elgin-O’Hare Expressway on the airport’s western and southern edge.

The tollway previously had reached another, much harder-fought deal with the Canadian Pacific Railway to cross part of its Bensenville Yards land. But permission also was needed from the UP to cross tracks the railroad operates near O’Hare.

Details of the land exchange and whether money was paid were not immediately available. Officials said they now expect to complete negotiations and sign a final contract early next year.

The Elgin-O’Hare Expressway would run from I-90 south and west past the airport to intersect with Interstate 294.

An actual entrance into O’Hare—potentially including a terminal and transit link to the main terminal complex to the east—is being discussed by officials from Chicago and Cook County, but appears at a minimum to be several years off. Still, officials hope to spur development to the west that occurred a generation ago to the east in Rosemont, and to ease traffic congestion in the O’Hare area.

UPDATE:

The tollway action is getting a cheer from U.S. Sens. Tammy Duckworth and Dick Durbin, and Reps. Raja Krishnamoorthi and Mike Quigley, all Democrats.

From a joint statement, “The Elgin-O’Hare Western Access project is vital to our regional, state and national transportation network and we are pleased that the Illinois Tollway Authority, Canadian Pacific Railway and Union Pacific Railway have finally come together to take this critical step today. Thanks to this project, thousands of jobs for hardworking Illinoisans will be created and the region will be better positioned to compete in our modern economy.”
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abefroman329

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #537 on: January 24, 2019, 09:51:35 AM »

The Elgin-O’Hare Expressway would run from I-90 south and west past the airport to intersect with Interstate 294.
This is a description of the route of I-490, not the EOE.

An actual entrance into O’Hare—potentially including a terminal and transit link to the main terminal complex to the east—is being discussed by officials from Chicago and Cook County, but appears at a minimum to be several years off.
I doubt this will ever happen, particularly if the reconfiguration of the main terminal area actually goes forward.  I think the likeliest plan would be the one I once read about building some sort of employee parking lot and screening area towards the end of the EOE that was somehow connected to the main terminal area.
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edwaleni

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #538 on: January 24, 2019, 01:35:35 PM »

The Elgin-O’Hare Expressway would run from I-90 south and west past the airport to intersect with Interstate 294.
This is a description of the route of I-490, not the EOE.

An actual entrance into O’Hare—potentially including a terminal and transit link to the main terminal complex to the east—is being discussed by officials from Chicago and Cook County, but appears at a minimum to be several years off.
I doubt this will ever happen, particularly if the reconfiguration of the main terminal area actually goes forward.  I think the likeliest plan would be the one I once read about building some sort of employee parking lot and screening area towards the end of the EOE that was somehow connected to the main terminal area.

Yes, the writer of this article includes the new exit on the Jane Addams as an extension of the EOE, which of course it isn't. The EOE will end at I-490.

The big news is that ISTHA has worked out their issues with the UP and CP railroads.

But I gotta say, that is going to be one busy area now with all that rail, highway, local freight use on roads supporting all those warehouses.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2019, 01:37:37 PM by edwaleni »
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ET21

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #539 on: January 24, 2019, 02:35:18 PM »

The Elgin-O’Hare Expressway would run from I-90 south and west past the airport to intersect with Interstate 294.
This is a description of the route of I-490, not the EOE.

An actual entrance into O’Hare—potentially including a terminal and transit link to the main terminal complex to the east—is being discussed by officials from Chicago and Cook County, but appears at a minimum to be several years off.
I doubt this will ever happen, particularly if the reconfiguration of the main terminal area actually goes forward.  I think the likeliest plan would be the one I once read about building some sort of employee parking lot and screening area towards the end of the EOE that was somehow connected to the main terminal area.

Yes, the writer of this article includes the new exit on the Jane Addams as an extension of the EOE, which of course it isn't. The EOE will end at I-490.

The big news is that ISTHA has worked out their issues with the UP and CP railroads.

But I gotta say, that is going to be one busy area now with all that rail, highway, local freight use on roads supporting all those warehouses.

Hope they upgrade Elmhurst/York Road to 3 lanes from Touhy to Irving Park. Don't think I saw anything other than Touhy getting an upgrade with the 490 build
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Rick Powell

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #540 on: January 25, 2019, 04:33:49 PM »

The Elgin-O’Hare Expressway would run from I-90 south and west past the airport to intersect with Interstate 294.
This is a description of the route of I-490, not the EOE.

An actual entrance into O’Hare—potentially including a terminal and transit link to the main terminal complex to the east—is being discussed by officials from Chicago and Cook County, but appears at a minimum to be several years off.
I doubt this will ever happen, particularly if the reconfiguration of the main terminal area actually goes forward.  I think the likeliest plan would be the one I once read about building some sort of employee parking lot and screening area towards the end of the EOE that was somehow connected to the main terminal area.

The west employee parking lot is part of the initial terminal expansion project, if I understand correctly. A western terminal is further off, and one of the hurdles it would need to overcome is that it would open up competition to the existing slots and would likely be opposed by the airlines that have them. A compromise plan might include no western terminal in the foreseeable future, but converting/enlarging the west employee space to a public parking space, and some sort of people mover to get people from the parking area to the upgraded existing terminal.
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edwaleni

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #541 on: January 25, 2019, 09:35:07 PM »

The Elgin-O’Hare Expressway would run from I-90 south and west past the airport to intersect with Interstate 294.
This is a description of the route of I-490, not the EOE.

An actual entrance into O’Hare—potentially including a terminal and transit link to the main terminal complex to the east—is being discussed by officials from Chicago and Cook County, but appears at a minimum to be several years off.
I doubt this will ever happen, particularly if the reconfiguration of the main terminal area actually goes forward.  I think the likeliest plan would be the one I once read about building some sort of employee parking lot and screening area towards the end of the EOE that was somehow connected to the main terminal area.

The west employee parking lot is part of the initial terminal expansion project, if I understand correctly. A western terminal is further off, and one of the hurdles it would need to overcome is that it would open up competition to the existing slots and would likely be opposed by the airlines that have them. A compromise plan might include no western terminal in the foreseeable future, but converting/enlarging the west employee space to a public parking space, and some sort of people mover to get people from the parking area to the upgraded existing terminal.

In a betrayal of Chicago promise to suburbs, western terminal disappears from O'Hare expansion plans

http://www.chicagonow.com/dennis-byrnes-barbershop/2017/02/in-a-betrayal-of-chicago-promise-to-suburbs-western-terminal-disappears-from-ohare-expansion-plans/

Because the 2 largest airlines at O'Hare (United and American) didn't like it. Why would they allow landing fees and surcharges on tickets when they would never see the light of the new terminal?  Let alone it would probably attract national discounters and Southwest doesn't like that, as it would bleed away traffic from "their" airport (Midway).

If American was smart, they would have moved their whole kit and kaboodle to the new terminal and had it to themselves, with new parking, now hotels, etc.  But greed and short term think saw otherwise.

If Chicago had a backbone, they would have given United and American "the shaft" just as Orlando did to Southwest when they approved their new terminal.

As the article said;

- did the new runways reduce delays? No
- did the expansion improve flight capacity? No.

While the suburbs would have gotten a great deal with the western access, City of Chicago is just too plumb greedy and control freaks.

But the suburbs did get something, a ring highway around O'Hare that will stop the senseless expansion into DuPage County suburbs with little or no benefit for travelers. Chicago will still demand all travelers come in through the "front door" on the Mannheim side and see the prominent "Mayor xxxx" sign.

And when the day comes that Chicago does build a terminal over there, I could easily see them flip the bird at the suburbs and build an underground transit system so everyone still will have to come in through the front door.

As for me, I am glad the EOE is finally getting to the airport if only to relieve traffic on the 290/294/US20/Lake Street exit ramps. If the western access was done it would relieve traffic coming from the north on Mannheim.

But there is another city/state next to the airport who definitely doesn't like that, and that is called the City of Rosemont.  Another greedy "mini-Chicago", who had the cajones to try and build a floating casino in a pond of a parking lot.

I could go on and on about the politics of O'Hare over the years, you could write a Greek opera on it.
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I-39

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #542 on: January 28, 2019, 10:18:13 PM »

The west employee parking lot is part of the initial terminal expansion project, if I understand correctly. A western terminal is further off, and one of the hurdles it would need to overcome is that it would open up competition to the existing slots and would likely be opposed by the airlines that have them. A compromise plan might include no western terminal in the foreseeable future, but converting/enlarging the west employee space to a public parking space, and some sort of people mover to get people from the parking area to the upgraded existing terminal.

In a betrayal of Chicago promise to suburbs, western terminal disappears from O'Hare expansion plans

http://www.chicagonow.com/dennis-byrnes-barbershop/2017/02/in-a-betrayal-of-chicago-promise-to-suburbs-western-terminal-disappears-from-ohare-expansion-plans/

Because the 2 largest airlines at O'Hare (United and American) didn't like it. Why would they allow landing fees and surcharges on tickets when they would never see the light of the new terminal?  Let alone it would probably attract national discounters and Southwest doesn't like that, as it would bleed away traffic from "their" airport (Midway).

If American was smart, they would have moved their whole kit and kaboodle to the new terminal and had it to themselves, with new parking, now hotels, etc.  But greed and short term think saw otherwise.

If Chicago had a backbone, they would have given United and American "the shaft" just as Orlando did to Southwest when they approved their new terminal.

As the article said;

- did the new runways reduce delays? No
- did the expansion improve flight capacity? No.

While the suburbs would have gotten a great deal with the western access, City of Chicago is just too plumb greedy and control freaks.

But the suburbs did get something, a ring highway around O'Hare that will stop the senseless expansion into DuPage County suburbs with little or no benefit for travelers. Chicago will still demand all travelers come in through the "front door" on the Mannheim side and see the prominent "Mayor xxxx" sign.

And when the day comes that Chicago does build a terminal over there, I could easily see them flip the bird at the suburbs and build an underground transit system so everyone still will have to come in through the front door.

I think we have a misunderstanding here of the long term plans for O'Hare. The terminal plans are no longer what Daley & Co announced back in 2001 as part of the O'Hare Modernization Plan, which was a completely new western terminal separate from the existing terminal complex. The long term plan now is to convert the main terminal complex into a layout very similar to Hartsfield/Jackson Atlanta International Airport, where it is a series of pier concourses going from east to west connected via an APM (automated people mover). One would be able to check in at either side and take the people mover to their gate. The APM will not be included in the upcoming work, but in the next phase which will happen when O'Hare hits 100,000,000 passengers, which they are saying could happening within the next decade barring a downturn. See slide 7 of the following presentation and you'll get a better idea of what I am talking about.

https://oharenoise.org/resources/presentations/general-meeting-presentations/2018-7/635-o-hare-21-terminal-area-plan/file

Also, I might add the new lease agreement essentially converted the entire terminal complex to "common use", so airlines like UA and AA have to actually use their gates or lose them under the new agreement. And the comment about the runways reducing delays is false, delays have been reduced drastically by reconfiguring the runways from its archaic intersecting layout to the new parallel layout it is now in.

How does this tie into the EOE? Well, Phase 1 of the new western parking/screening facility will be built for employees only during the construction of the Global Terminal, but the long term plan is to build it out to serve passengers as well. The third satellite concourse and the APM is scheduled to be built out when O'Hare hits 100,000,000, so the western passenger facility would likely be built out then as well.
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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #543 on: March 20, 2019, 09:25:30 AM »

Took a drive down Thorndale yesterday, they've begun to construct the bridges over the train tracks right after the current sections ends
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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #544 on: March 20, 2019, 03:08:55 PM »

Here is a crazy, delusional, fictional idea I just had. What if someone proposed to build a tunnel underneath O'Hare airport that would connect IL-390 with Interstate 190, as a way to bypass O'Hare and surrounding roads? What do you all think of my ludicrous fantasy proposal?
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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #545 on: March 20, 2019, 03:31:19 PM »

Here is a crazy, delusional, fictional idea I just had. What if someone proposed to build a tunnel underneath O'Hare airport that would connect IL-390 with Interstate 190, as a way to bypass O'Hare and surrounding roads? What do you all think of my ludicrous fantasy proposal?

It could work, as the ground under the airport is clayey and silty glacial till to at least 50 feet deep in that area.
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abefroman329

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #546 on: March 20, 2019, 04:04:22 PM »

Here is a crazy, delusional, fictional idea I just had. What if someone proposed to build a tunnel underneath O'Hare airport that would connect IL-390 with Interstate 190, as a way to bypass O'Hare and surrounding roads? What do you all think of my ludicrous fantasy proposal?
Supposedly the way the Blue Line was constructed, it can't be extended directly from its current terminus (the occasional proposals to extend the Blue Line to Schaumburg would require building a spur off the current Blue Line before the O'Hare stop).  I'm not sure if that also means you couldn't build an I-190 tunnel under the current airport terminal.
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edwaleni

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #547 on: March 20, 2019, 10:34:19 PM »

Here is a crazy, delusional, fictional idea I just had. What if someone proposed to build a tunnel underneath O'Hare airport that would connect IL-390 with Interstate 190, as a way to bypass O'Hare and surrounding roads? What do you all think of my ludicrous fantasy proposal?
Supposedly the way the Blue Line was constructed, it can't be extended directly from its current terminus (the occasional proposals to extend the Blue Line to Schaumburg would require building a spur off the current Blue Line before the O'Hare stop).  I'm not sure if that also means you couldn't build an I-190 tunnel under the current airport terminal.

Technically feasible = Yes
Very expensive = Yes
Will Chicago allow it? = No

If the tunnel like this started on I-190 back at Mannheim and came up at the new parking garage on the west side of the airport? Then yes, Chicago would do it.

But it would be cheaper to have the O'Hare recirculator go through that tunnel instead of cars and trucks and pop up in some future west terminal.

Chicago is too greedy.

The western suburbs tried to have a fixed transit service come in from the west to O'Hare and tunnel under to arrive at Terminal 2.  Chicago wouldn't have it.

Northwest suburbs tried to join in on the concept. A direct transit route from Arlington Heights/Palatine.  Chicago said "no way".

To Chicago, O'Hare is an old fashioned bank. 

They haven't figured out what most banks today have, the easier you make it for people to get their money, the more they want to put it there.

O'Hare is like an old school bank, they want all your money, they restrict what you can do with it and limit your abilities to get it.

They haven't realized that the easier it is to get in and out, the more people will use it. (duh)

After what it took to get a Metra stop at O'Hare, and get Chicago to agree to punch a hole in the fence so people could walk over.  They still object to any enhancement to that station.

Control and greed.

When the Illinois State Lottery wanted to put vending machines in O'Hare, Chicago told them to pound sand.

They finally did a swap. Illinois State Police got all patrol priority and ticket revenue for stops on the interstates in city limits, in return, Chicago got to keep a large part of lottery vending revenue.

Chicago Police stopped harassing commuters shortly thereafter. Within a year Illinois State Police patrols on city limit interstates dropped to nil.

Control and greed.

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Ryctor2018

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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #548 on: March 22, 2019, 12:21:37 AM »

A small nibble of info. Google now has images of IL-390. Here's the beginning of WB IL-390: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9835703,-87.963856,3a,75y,269.02h,84.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKFqbHHpQT20iSjmr1ud9aw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
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Re: Elgin-O'Hare Tollway
« Reply #549 on: March 22, 2019, 08:50:28 AM »

When my Son and I did the halloween bicycle ride on 390 back in 2017, we had a lot of fun.  Awesome experience to ride on a tollway without cars before it opens.
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