NJ Turnpike and Garden State Parkway go MUTCD!

[djsinco]

Well, whichever leg they designated as the real I-95, the FWHA would probably find it too simple and intuitive for drivers to use I-95E and I-95W.

They approved I-69E/69C/69W in Texas...

In addition, of course, to the existing I-35's (E and W.)

[SignBridge]

How recent are those Texas designations? I know they did that sort of thing years ago, but I thought that practice was discontinued in recent years.

[NE2]

The I-69 ones are within the past few years. But did FHWA actually approve signs saying 69C and 69W? The signs they approved on "69E" are normal I-69 shields.

[cpzilliacus]

In addition, of course, to the existing I-35's (E and W.)

Here in Maryland, we got rid of I-70N (became I-70) and I-70S (became I-270) in the early 1970's.

[Janko Dialnice]

Regarding numbering the spurs, I thought of an idea, which might work. Begin signing NJ 700 south of Exit 6, continue it as a duplex with I-95 to the split, and continue that designation along one spur, with I-95 running along the other. If and when the NJTP goes to mileage-based exit numbers, the mileposts and exit numbers will be that of NJ 700 or I-95. Aside from having a needless duplex, would this work?

[akotchi]

(Seinfeld-like incredulous voice)... What's up with Exit 18X? 

Actually, I think you mean 15X. 

Well, whichever leg they designated as the real I-95, the FWHA would probably find it too simple and intuitive for drivers to use I-95E and I-95W. So they'd mandate the NJTA use something brilliant like calling one leg I-95 and the other a spur like I-295   and really confuse everybody.

Or...orrrr...designate I-80 on the Eastern spur.  Going Northbound, when the roadway splits, I-95 is the western spur, and I-80 is the eastern spur.  When the highways join up next to each other above Interchange 18E/W, 80 & 95 maintain their individual roadways, then 80 takes its westerly direction, while 95 heads to the east!

The resulting roadway lane designation between 18E/W and I-80/95 would look as follows:

80E | 95S | 80W | 95N

Funny you should mention that . . . The last paper edition of the NJDOT Straight Line Diagram (1990), when I-95 between U.S. 46 and I-80 was still the State's, designated that section just that way.  I-80 EB turned south along the local roadway up to the left merge from express (for the U.S. 46 exit).  I-80 WB was the inner roadway, "beginning" where the ramps from the spurs merge.  Never signed that way in the field, though.

[Alps]

(Seinfeld-like incredulous voice)... What's up with Exit 18X? 

Actually, I think you mean 15X. 

Well, whichever leg they designated as the real I-95, the FWHA would probably find it too simple and intuitive for drivers to use I-95E and I-95W. So they'd mandate the NJTA use something brilliant like calling one leg I-95 and the other a spur like I-295   and really confuse everybody.

Or...orrrr...designate I-80 on the Eastern spur.  Going Northbound, when the roadway splits, I-95 is the western spur, and I-80 is the eastern spur.  When the highways join up next to each other above Interchange 18E/W, 80 & 95 maintain their individual roadways, then 80 takes its westerly direction, while 95 heads to the east!

The resulting roadway lane designation between 18E/W and I-80/95 would look as follows:

80E | 95S | 80W | 95N

Funny you should mention that . . . The last paper edition of the NJDOT Straight Line Diagram (1990), when I-95 between U.S. 46 and I-80 was still the State's, designated that section just that way.  I-80 EB turned south along the local roadway up to the left merge from express (for the U.S. 46 exit).  I-80 WB was the inner roadway, "beginning" where the ramps from the spurs merge.  Never signed that way in the field, though.

I think that was an internal bookkeeping peculiarity brought about by the fact that these are ramps to/from I-80 extending out of the I-95 interchange. I could see taking I-80 down the Easterly, and renumbering the rest of the Turnpike south of there as NJ 495. (No reason to bother making it an Interstate, as it's not Federally funded, and most traffic is going to NYC anyway so it makes sense.) But... BUT... NJ 495 was once I-495. I wonder if it's possible to bring back an Interstate designation on a road that once had it (NCDOT did that with I-40/green 40/I-40), and that would then let you take I-80 all the way into Manhattan.

[djsinco]

I spent most of my formative years living in Teaneck, NJ. The merge of I-95, I-80, and parts of 95 that are NJTP and parts that are not at this confluence of mega-roads is locally known as the "missing mile." In the 1970's, it was frequently in disrepair relative to the more clearly defined sections of the TP and I-80. I had a friend who drove a wrecker that was not TP licensed, but he always used his best judgement when stopping to assist or tow someone in this no-mans land.

[MrDisco99]

Any major highways left with non-MUTCD signage?

[NE2]

Any major highways left with non-MUTCD signage?

Federal parkways?

[Alps]

Any major highways left with non-MUTCD signage?

Oklahoma.

[Duke87]

Also, Merritt Parkway.

[cpzilliacus]

Also, Merritt Parkway.

I don't know about the Merritt Parkway, but the federal parkways (under National Park Service ownership) use their own MUTCD, which used to require the use of Clarendon on big brown signs (it's a different font now), but at interchanges with Interstate highways, the use of "regular" MUTCD-compliant BGS panels is specified.

[NE2]

Puerto Rico too. I don't think the MUTCD allows Spanish.

[1995hoo]

Also, Merritt Parkway.

I don't know about the Merritt Parkway, but the federal parkways (under National Park Service ownership) use their own MUTCD, which used to require the use of Clarendon on big brown signs (it's a different font now), but at interchanges with Interstate highways, the use of "regular" MUTCD-compliant BGS panels is specified.

Don't have a picture because it was too dark to get a good one, but on the way to and from Reagan Airport on Sunday night I noted that the brown signs on the GW Parkway in Virginia north of Alexandria all use that new font for the destinations but use all-caps Clearview for other information. For example, the words "Reagan National Airport" appear in the new NPS font but the words "Exit 3/4 Mile" appear in all-caps Clearview with an in-line fraction (i.e., numbers arranged the way I typed them here instead of on a diagonal). It didn't look too bad on the whole. I think the all-caps Clearview is probably less jarring than regular caps and lowercase Clearview would be when juxtaposed with the fancier typeface used by the NPS.

[SidS1045]

Any major highways left with non-MUTCD signage?

All the DCR (formerly MDC) roads in the Boston area.

[cpzilliacus]

Also, Merritt Parkway.

I don't know about the Merritt Parkway, but the federal parkways (under National Park Service ownership) use their own MUTCD, which used to require the use of Clarendon on big brown signs (it's a different font now), but at interchanges with Interstate highways, the use of "regular" MUTCD-compliant BGS panels is specified.

Don't have a picture because it was too dark to get a good one, but on the way to and from Reagan Airport on Sunday night I noted that the brown signs on the GW Parkway in Virginia north of Alexandria all use that new font for the destinations but use all-caps Clearview for other information. For example, the words "Reagan National Airport" appear in the new NPS font but the words "Exit 3/4 Mile" appear in all-caps Clearview with an in-line fraction (i.e., numbers arranged the way I typed them here instead of on a diagonal). It didn't look too bad on the whole. I think the all-caps Clearview is probably less jarring than regular caps and lowercase Clearview would be when juxtaposed with the fancier typeface used by the NPS.

Most (maybe all) of the BBS panels on the federal part of the Baltimore-Washington Parkway use Clarendon (except the conventional-MUTCD compliant BGS panels approaching the I-95/I-495 interchange in Greenbelt) but several of them have faded (badly), and need to be replaced. 

[civilmaher]

*bump*

Get ready to kiss some NJTA button copy goodbye 

Excerpt from the Turnpike Agenda for March:


Get ready to see exit tabs too. I spotted a BGS for Exit 13 on the Turnpike Mainline (around MP 101.7 southbound car lanes) with an exit tab! AN EXIT TAB! ON THE TURNPIKE! And the button-copy I-278 shield was gone.

[Steve D]

I wonder if the new contract will include proper signage for exit 15E southbound on the eastern spur.  I seem to recall this is the worst-signed exit on the Turnpike.  It may be because the exit is at the end of a long (2 mile?) bridge and the Turnpike has a historical standard against overhead signs on bridges.  I think their design manual says something like "overhead sign structures are prohibited and only used as a last resort with permission from the chief engineer".  Exit 15W though has overhead approach signs on the western spur bridge which was built later.

[Ian]

Get ready to see exit tabs too. I spotted a BGS for Exit 13 on the Turnpike Mainline (around MP 101.7 southbound car lanes) with an exit tab! AN EXIT TAB! ON THE TURNPIKE! And the button-copy I-278 shield was gone.

I noticed that too coming home from Maine on Tuesday. I think it looks nice, especially with the rounded corners.

[NJRoadfan]

I noticed that too coming home from Maine on Tuesday. I think it looks nice, especially with the rounded corners.

That contract spells doom to the NJDOT era signs on the "free" section of the GSP in Union/Middlesex counties. At least it isn't going to be in Clearview!

[Alps]

I wonder if the new contract will include proper signage for exit 15E southbound on the eastern spur.  I seem to recall this is the worst-signed exit on the Turnpike.  It may be because the exit is at the end of a long (2 mile?) bridge and the Turnpike has a historical standard against overhead signs on bridges.  I think their design manual says something like "overhead sign structures are prohibited and only used as a last resort with permission from the chief engineer".  Exit 15W though has overhead approach signs on the western spur bridge which was built later.

Every exit north of the current widening project is going to be signed with exit tabs and with 2-mile, 1-mile, and advance (1/4, 1/2, 3/4) signs, as well as exit sign and properly mounted gore (in the exit, not overhead).

[SignBridge]

Steve D, you raise a good point about Exit-15W southbound. I can remember as a kid back in the 1960's (!) noting even then that  "Exit-15" was poorly signed, when the western leg was under construction. I don't understand why an advance sign couldn't have been erected just before the Passaic River Bridge. I could understand NJ or NYS DOT screwing up like that, but we're talking about the NJ Turnpike Authority which is normally a pretty sharp agency.

And Steve, I have no problem with overhead exit gore signs as often used on the NJT, especially at 2-lane exits. It's true they are not in compliance with the MUTCD, which does require them to be placed in the gore area. But, placing them as required often causes them to be knocked down in accidents, so overhead might actually make more sense.

[swbrotha100]

I noticed that too coming home from Maine on Tuesday. I think it looks nice, especially with the rounded corners.

That contract spells doom to the NJDOT era signs on the "free" section of the GSP in Union/Middlesex counties. At least it isn't going to be in Clearview!

How many of you would be ready to jump off bridges if the Turnpike and Parkway were signed in Clearview?

[NJRoadfan]

How many of you would be ready to jump off bridges if the Turnpike and Parkway were signed in Clearview?

NJ for the most part seems to be resisting Clearview. There are some signs with it on I-676 and I hear a few "contractor specials" on I-280 got it as well. I haven't confirmed the latter yet, I might do that tomorrow when I get photos of these tabbed Turnpike signs. Anyone know if NJDOT has ever specified Clearview in their signing contracts? I can see I-676 being a test install, but I-280 randomly getting it for a single sign replacement on the other end of the state seems odd.