Same freeway, same route numbers for different intersecting routes

[cpzilliacus]

The I-495 section of the Capital Beltway has segments in Montgomery and Prince George's Counties in Maryland, and Fairfax County, Virginia.

Confusingly for some, two route numbers are repeated not too far from each other.

First, S.R. 193 exists in Maryland as University Boulevard East (Exit 29) in Silver Spring, Md. and as Georgetown Pike in McLean, Va. (Exit 44).

Second, S.R. 650 is New Hampshire Avenue (Exit 28), also in Silver Spring and is Gallows Road (Exit 50) in Annandale, Va.

Adding to the fun, Md. 187 is Old Georgetown Road (Exit 35), not to be confused with Va. 193, Georgetown Pike, a short distance away  at Exit 44.

[NE2]

In before all the business routes.

[1995hoo]

Might as well mention I-70 in Maryland since we were discussing that in the "They think we're stupid" thread. I-70 has an interchange with MD-68 near Clear Spring and with the newer I-68 near Hancock. I suppose that's not quite the same thing as two state routes numbered "193," but in my mind if you're equating "Maryland State Route 193" and "Virginia State Route 193" because some motorists simply think "193," then the two "68s" would count as well–in other words, the state routes have different shields, just like the state route versus the Interstate.

[cpzilliacus]

Might as well mention I-70 in Maryland since we were discussing that in the "They think we're stupid" thread. I-70 has an interchange with MD-68 near Clear Spring and with the newer I-68 near Hancock. I suppose that's not quite the same thing as two state routes numbered "193," but in my mind if you're equating "Maryland State Route 193" and "Virginia State Route 193" because some motorists simply think "193," then the two "68s" would count as well–in other words, the state routes have different shields, just like the state route versus the Interstate.

There are some people (probably not among the population that routinely visits this site) who see a route number, and react "this is my exit."

I should have added that the state route numbers I mentioned above all predate the construction of I-495, so it was not a deliberate effort by VDH and SRC to mislead the traveling public.

[vdeane]

The Thruway has exits for both I-81 and NY 81.  I-87 serves both NY 2 and US 2 (though does not intersect or sign US 2, since you have to take a few miles of US 11 to get to it).

[Doctor Whom]

I'm not aware of any actual confusion over the Beltway exits.  In my experience at least, people in the D.C. area tend to pay close attention to any Maryland/Virginia distinction and also tend to be oblivious to almost all S.R. numbers.

[kphoger]

I'm not aware of any actual confusion over the Beltway exits.  In my experience at least, people in the D.C. area tend to pay close attention to any Maryland/Virginia distinction and also tend to be oblivious to almost all S.R. numbers.

That's all well and good for people who are actually from the area.  But what about visitors?  Most of us are pretty used to navigating by route number.

[1995hoo]

I'm not aware of any actual confusion over the Beltway exits.  In my experience at least, people in the D.C. area tend to pay close attention to any Maryland/Virginia distinction and also tend to be oblivious to almost all S.R. numbers.

I don't necessarily agree with that last part, at least not in Virginia. But it seems to be a crapshoot to some degree which roads are referred to by name and which by number. I've often tried to puzzle out whether there's any rhyme or reason to it and I concluded once that it seems like as a general matter if the road changes names, it's more likely to be referred to by number. Two examples:

–VA-236 is variously called Duke Street, Little River Turnpike, and Main Street; most everyone I know simply calls it "236" (although I did know one fellow, a father of a kid in my Boy Scout troop when I was growing up, who called it "Lert," as in "LRT" pronounced as a word).

–VA-123 is, from north to south, Chain Bridge Road, Dolley Madison Boulevard, Chain Bridge Road again, Maple Avenue, Chain Bridge Road again, Ox Road, and Gordon Boulevard; I usually hear it called "123" and I've never heard anyone use the name "Gordon Boulevard" for the southern end.

VA-7 would be another good example.

But the only people I ever hear referring to Route 644 by number (changes names from Franconia Road to Old Keene Mill Road as it crosses I-95) are radio traffic reporters. I assume it's easier not to have to clarify which part they mean.

I've never heard anyone use "650" for Gallows Road or "620" for Braddock Road in Virginia and I think most Virginians do not know the secondary route numbers and would never list those numbers when giving directions. (As I think about how I give directions to my house, it occurs to me that I have never once referred to Van Dorn Street as "Route 613" even though the signs on the Beltway show that number.) The only exception to this was that some people called the Fairfax County Parkway "7100" until it was recently renumbered; I suspect they picked that up from the traffic reporters, who presumably found "7100" (always said "seventy-one hundred") easier to say than the road's name.

I'm not as familiar with how people in Maryland refer to their roads, but I've certainly heard "355" used often enough to refer to Wisconsin Avenue/Rockville Pike (again an example of a road changing names), "210" for Indian Head Highway (which doesn't change names in Maryland, but becomes South Capitol Street at the DC line), and "214" for Central Avenue (also doesn't change names until you hit the DC line). Yet there are other roads I've never heard referred to by number, such as Georgia Avenue (MD-97), Connecticut Avenue (MD-185), River Road (MD-190), or the Intercounty Connector (MD-200, almost always just called "the ICC").

I think it really boils down to it just being something you get a sense for over time when you live here. No doubt part of all this stems from so many people moving here from other parts of the country. People from the New York City area have this odd predilection of not even using Interstate numbers to refer to roads, for example.

This discussion also underscores to me the value of exit numbers as an additional way to give directions, although in the case of the Beltway that can be confusing too when you have to explain to an out-of-town visitor that the numbering will jump from 57 to 173 within three miles. As I type this post, it's making me think about how I give directions to people. I try to give multiple landmarks when possible so that if the person misses one thing, he might see another; in particular, I've never liked relying solely on street names once the directions are off the Interstate because it can be easy to miss blade signs if they're put in stupid locations. When I give directions to my house I don't bother with the street names when I get to my neighborhood–instead I tell people to take the third left turn after passing a particular landmark. I suppose that sort of thing is a topic that could justify its own thread. Of course I've also learned that no matter what you do, some people can't follow seemingly simple directions no matter how many landmarks you give them to back up the street names.

[Ian]

In Maine, US 1 intersects both I-195 in Saco and ME 195 in Gouldsboro. This being said, there is quite a distance between the two 195's.

[kphoger]

I-90
US-5 & I-5

[Alps]

MA 128: I-95 North, I-95 South. Two completely different routes if you ask Bostonians.

[Brandon]

Illinois and Indiana:
I-80, IL-53 and IN-53, 41 miles apart.
I-80, US-51 and IN-51 - one is with I-39, and the other is by the Toll Road.
I-57, I-24 and US-24, but so far apart no one will mistake them.
I-74, US-6 and IL-6 - Quad Cities and Peoria.

[The High Plains Traveler]

In Ramsey County, MN: I-35W intersects County 10 (old U.S. 10 west) and then the relocated U.S. 10 west a couple of miles north. Terrible idea in this case to use the old state/U.S. route number for the county road, since they're parallel and run fairly close together; also, County 10 has no other name.

[english si]

NE2 mentioned business routes, I'll mention different-state-same-number 3dis (I-95 meets several I-195s)

I-70 meets both I-76s - thankfully there's quite a bit of distance between the two.

In NI, the M5 and M3 both link the M2 to the A2.

In GB, you have these on the motorway network (exit numbers in brackets):

M1 meets A45 (15, 16) and M45 (17); M6 (19) and A6 (24)
M3 meets M27 (14) and A27 (14) though the A27 is unsigned from the M3 until approaching the terminal roundabout
M4 meets M48 (21, 23) and A48(M) (29) and A48 (24, 28, 38, 39, 41, 42, 44, 46, 47, 49)
M5 meets M4 (15) and A4 (18)
M6 meets M5 (8) and A5 (12); M54 (10a) and A54 (18); M69 (2) and A69 (43); A58 (24) and M58 (26); M65 (29) and A65 (36)
M8 meets A80 (12) and M80 (13); A73 (6) and M73 (8)
M18 meets M1 (southern end) and A1(M) (2)
M25 meets A20 (3) and M20 (3); M1 (21A) and A1/A1(M) (23); M3 (12) and A3 (10)
M26 meets A20 (2A) and M20 (3)
M53 meets M56 (11) and A56 (12)
M55 meets A6 (1) and M6 (eastern end)
M60 meets M56 (4) and A56 (7, 17); M62 (12, 18) and A62 (22)
M61 meets A6 (4) and M6 (northern end)
M62 meets M57 (6) and A57 (7)
M65 meets A6 (1A) and M6 (1)
M73 meets A8 (2) and M8 (2)
M180 meets M18 (western end) and A18 (1)
M275 meets A27 and M27
M621 meets M62 (western end) and A62 (western end)

[CNGL-Leudimin]

I-90 almost meets both I-88s. If the western one was extended over I-290...

In Spain, we have the following cases only on the motorway/expressway network:
A-1/N-I (I consider both designations the same highway) meets both N-622s; and M-30 and BU-30.
A-2/N-II meets A-230 and N-230; M-14 and C-14; M-40, Z-40 and B-40; C-15 and, when it is completed, A-15.
A-3 meets M-40 and A-40
A-4/N-IV meets M-40, A-40 and SE-40; M-30 and SE-30; A-32, CO-32 and CA-32 (the latter one without crossing)
A-5 meets M-40 and A-40
The A-7/AP-7 complex meet AP-2, A-2 and RM-2; A-3 and RM-3; C-14 and GR-14; MA-20 and EL-20; V-30, MU-30 and B-30; CV-32, C-32 and CT-32; V-23 and A-23; CV-11 and T-11. Now that is something crazy
A-8/AP-8 meets GJ-81 and AI-81; AG-64 and A-64; N-I (Should be A-1 at that point), AP-1 and AS-1.
A-23 meets N-232 and A-232.
AP-36 meets A-4 and R-4 at the same point!
A-40 also meets both A-4 and R-4.
A-42 meets M-40, A-40 and CM-40; CM-41 and AP-41 (almost). Not bad for 48 miles.
A-66/AP-66 meets LE-30 and SE-30
And a bonus: M-50 meets all R designations and their corresponding A ones (2, 3, 4 and 5).

All of this is thanks to our crazy numbering system .

[jp the roadgeek]

I-91: CT 20 and US 20 about 20 miles apart; CT 2 (no exit), MA 2 and US 2; CT 9, MA 9, and VT 9; US 44 and VT 44 (no exit)
I-84 (E): US 9 and CT 9; NY 32 and CT 32
I-93: US 3 and MA 3; Oh so close mentions: MA 9 and NH 9, MA 2 and US 2
I-678/Hutch/Merritt/Wilbur Cross Parkway: NY 25 and CT 25; NY and CT 127
I-97, I-99, and I-238: None 

Non Freeway Mentions:
CT/MA 8, 187, 10; US 5, US 202: CT and US 20
CT/MA/NH/VT 12: CT 2, MA 2, US 2
CT/MA/VT 8: MA and VT 9
CT/MA/NH 10: CT 4 and US 4, CT 63 and MA 63; MA 9 and NH 9, CT 120 and NH 120 (Interestingly CT 120 is Meriden Ave, and part of NH 120 is Meriden Rd), MA 142 and NH 142 (according to Google Maps)
CT /MA/NH 32: CT 2 and MA 2
VT/NH/ME 11: VT 103 and NH 103 within 5 miles either side of the CT River
US 1: CT 2 and RI 2 about 7 miles apart.
VT 9 and VT 279 (unofficially): NY 7 and US 7 just a few miles apart

[ftballfan]

I-80 meets both I-76s.

[Alps]

I-80 meets both I-76s.

Both of which started out as I-80S.

[sp_redelectric]

Oregon (the one and only example), I-84 intersects I-82 at exit 179, and Oregon 82 at exit 261 - 80 miles apart

[CNGL-Leudimin]

The central section of I-35 meets both I-35Es and I-35Ws. I consider I-35 to be split into three sections, with gaps on Hillsboro-Denton TX and Burnsville-Lino Lakes MN sections (Where it splits onto I-35E and I-35W).

[PHLBOS]

MA 128: I-95 North, I-95 South. Two completely different routes if you ask Bostonians.

True, but it's worth noting (and I know you know this, but for the benefit of those who might be new here) that those 2 segments of I-95 were supposed to continue inside 128 and link each other.

Similar could be said regarding I-495 (The Capital Beltway): I-95 North, I-95 South.

[kurumi]

I-90
US-5 & I-5

Fake fact: in Seattle, large BGS'es remind the driver "This is not US 5" and "Springfield is 2,962 miles thataway"

[cpzilliacus]

I'm not aware of any actual confusion over the Beltway exits.  In my experience at least, people in the D.C. area tend to pay close attention to any Maryland/Virginia distinction and also tend to be oblivious to almost all S.R. numbers.

I don't necessarily agree with that last part, at least not in Virginia. But it seems to be a crapshoot to some degree which roads are referred to by name and which by number. I've often tried to puzzle out whether there's any rhyme or reason to it and I concluded once that it seems like as a general matter if the road changes names, it's more likely to be referred to by number. Two examples:

–VA-236 is variously called Duke Street, Little River Turnpike, and Main Street; most everyone I know simply calls it "236" (although I did know one fellow, a father of a kid in my Boy Scout troop when I was growing up, who called it "Lert," as in "LRT" pronounced as a word).

I've always called it "236."

–VA-123 is, from north to south, Chain Bridge Road, Dolley Madison Boulevard, Chain Bridge Road again, Maple Avenue, Chain Bridge Road again, Ox Road, and Gordon Boulevard; I usually hear it called "123" and I've never heard anyone use the name "Gordon Boulevard" for the southern end.

123 does confuse people that are looking for some place on Chain Bridge Road but are on Dolley Madison Boulevard.

Aside from Dolley Madison Boulevard, all of those name changes are associated with crossing a jurisdictional boundary.

VA-7 would be another good example.

Yeah, 7 starts out as King Street, becomes Leesburg Pike when it enters Fairfax County, only to make an annoying change to Broad Street in the City of Falls Church, then back to Leesburg Pike when it reenters Fairfax County - but as one get closer to Leesburg, crossing into Loudoun County, it becomes Harry Byrd Highway, a name that it seems to retain most of the rest of the way to Winchester, though for a final dash of confusion, it becomes Berryville Pike (after passing Berryville when headed west) when it enters Frederick County.

But the only people I ever hear referring to Route 644 by number (changes names from Franconia Road to Old Keene Mill Road as it crosses I-95) are radio traffic reporters. I assume it's easier not to have to clarify which part they mean.

Another secondary in Virginia where people seem to prefer to the route number is 659.  It starts at its southern end in Catharpin, Prince William County at Va. 234 as Gum Spring Road.  It almost immediately crosses into Loudoun County (strangely, retaining its name), running past a massive gravel mining operation on the right.  At Va. 620 (Braddock Road), it is in the process of being rerouted (not sure which way it goes right now) but at some point it runs into Evergreen Mills Road, which it follows for a short distance west to Belmont Ridge Road, where it resumes its northward journey.

It then crosses Va. 267 (Dulles Greenway), passes two more huge gravel mines, crosses Va. 7 (Harry Byrd Highway) before coming to an end in the eastern "suburbs" of Leesburg.

People seem to prefer to call this road "659" and not by one of its names.

I've never heard anyone use "650" for Gallows Road or "620" for Braddock Road in Virginia and I think most Virginians do not know the secondary route numbers and would never list those numbers when giving directions. (As I think about how I give directions to my house, it occurs to me that I have never once referred to Van Dorn Street as "Route 613" even though the signs on the Beltway show that number.) The only exception to this was that some people called the Fairfax County Parkway "7100" until it was recently renumbered; I suspect they picked that up from the traffic reporters, who presumably found "7100" (always said "seventy-one hundred") easier to say than the road's name.

I still hear people refer to it as "7100."  I think that habit is going to be hard for some people to break.  Wonder if the preferred name will become its name, or "286."

I'm not as familiar with how people in Maryland refer to their roads, but I've certainly heard "355" used often enough to refer to Wisconsin Avenue/Rockville Pike (again an example of a road changing names), "210" for Indian Head Highway (which doesn't change names in Maryland, but becomes South Capitol Street at the DC line), and "214" for Central Avenue (also doesn't change names until you hit the DC line). Yet there are other roads I've never heard referred to by number, such as Georgia Avenue (MD-97), Connecticut Avenue (MD-185), River Road (MD-190), or the Intercounty Connector (MD-200, almost always just called "the ICC").

"355" seems to be the preferred name, except at the south end, where it is Wisconsin Avenue.  Heading further north, it becomes Hungerford Drive in the City of Rockville, then Frederick Road, then Frederick Avenue (in the City of Gaithersburg), then Frederick Road again until it actually reaches Frederick County, at which point it becomes Urbana Pike until it reaches Urbana (355 has been moved onto another street in "downtown" Urbana, Worthington Parkway, but it's not clear from the SHA Highway Location Reference which  is the "real" routing).

In Montgomery and Prince George's Counties, University Boulevard, Greenbelt Road, Glenn Dale Road, Enterprise Road and  Watkins Park Road are generally not called "193."

Connecticut Avenue is generally called that, not "185."

But in Prince George's County, Pennsylvania Avenue (or Pennsylvania Avenue Extended) is generally called "4."

Crain Highway is usually called "301" or "3," but not always.

I think it really boils down to it just being something you get a sense for over time when you live here. No doubt part of all this stems from so many people moving here from other parts of the country. People from the New York City area have this odd predilection of not even using Interstate numbers to refer to roads, for example.

They do seem to prefer the expressway name. Not sure I have ever heard the BQE called "278," the LIE called "495" or the Major Deegan called "87" on a WCBS traffic report. Or, for that matter, the New York State Thruway and the New Jersey Turnpike called anything other than by those names.  The Garden State Parkway is always called that, never "the Parkway," presumably because there are so many other parkways in the New York metropolitan area.

This discussion also underscores to me the value of exit numbers as an additional way to give directions, although in the case of the Beltway that can be confusing too when you have to explain to an out-of-town visitor that the numbering will jump from 57 to 173 within three miles.

Exit numbers, where available, are a good thing. 

As I type this post, it's making me think about how I give directions to people. I try to give multiple landmarks when possible so that if the person misses one thing, he might see another; in particular, I've never liked relying solely on street names once the directions are off the Interstate because it can be easy to miss blade signs if they're put in stupid locations. When I give directions to my house I don't bother with the street names when I get to my neighborhood–instead I tell people to take the third left turn after passing a particular landmark. I suppose that sort of thing is a topic that could justify its own thread. Of course I've also learned that no matter what you do, some people can't follow seemingly simple directions no matter how many landmarks you give them to back up the street names.

Many people are geographically challenged.

[bugo]

While not a freeway, US 412 meets US 59 and AR 59 (it duplexes with both) about 2 miles apart.  Here's a video:

[vdeane]

I'm not aware of any actual confusion over the Beltway exits.  In my experience at least, people in the D.C. area tend to pay close attention to any Maryland/Virginia distinction and also tend to be oblivious to almost all S.R. numbers.

That's all well and good for people who are actually from the area.  But what about visitors?  Most of us are pretty used to navigating by route number.

Pay close attention to the size of the exit tabs?