Legality of detectors - US and abroad

[hbelkins]

I used to take the radar detector down when I drove through Virginia, now I just turn it off but leave it up. It's a PITA to put it back up while driving, and unless I need to stop for a different reason, I generally don't like to pull off at welcome centers/rest areas/wide spots off the road just to put it up. Since Virginia cops have detector-detectors, they will know that it was not in operation even if they pull me over for something else. Of course I generally watch my speed in Virginia so I won't get pulled over.

[oscar]

I used to take the radar detector down when I drove through Virginia, now I just turn it off but leave it up. It's a PITA to put it back up while driving, and unless I need to stop for a different reason, I generally don't like to pull off at welcome centers/rest areas/wide spots off the road just to put it up. Since Virginia cops have detector-detectors, they will know that it was not in operation even if they pull me over for something else.

If you're using a V1, like me, it's rather visible, and a cop pulling you over for some other reason can ticket you for having it in the passenger compartment.  Virginia law doesn't require proof that you were actually using the detector.  But there is an express "in-the-trunk" exemption for unpowered detectors inaccessible to anyone in the passenger compartment, so that you couldn't possibly have been using it. 

I always dismount and hide my V1 before I cross into Virginia or DC, or a Canadian jurisdiction where detectors are illegal (all but the provinces from Saskatchewan on west), and re-mount when it becomes legal again unless it's a trip into Maryland short enough to be not worth the bother.

[1995hoo]

I used to take the radar detector down when I drove through Virginia, now I just turn it off but leave it up. It's a PITA to put it back up while driving, and unless I need to stop for a different reason, I generally don't like to pull off at welcome centers/rest areas/wide spots off the road just to put it up. Since Virginia cops have detector-detectors, they will know that it was not in operation even if they pull me over for something else.

If you're using a V1, like me, it's rather visible, and a cop pulling you over for some other reason can ticket you for having it in the passenger compartment.  Virginia law doesn't require proof that you were actually using the detector.  But there is an express "in-the-trunk" exemption for unpowered detectors inaccessible to anyone in the passenger compartment, so that you couldn't possibly have been using it. 

I always dismount and hide my V1 before I cross into Virginia or DC, or a Canadian jurisdiction where detectors are illegal (all but the provinces from Saskatchewan on west), and re-mount when it becomes legal again unless it's a trip into Maryland short enough to be not worth the bother.

Back in the 1990s I used a V1 with the concealed display in Virginia on regular trips between Duke University (where I was a student) and Fairfax (where my parents lived). Never got caught, even the time I hammered the brakes due to a powerful blast of X-band on I-85 when I was doing around 100 mph. I figured the detector fine was cheaper than the speeding fine.

But I always wondered about the trunk exemption if your car has a ski pass-thru (like my current Acura). Odds of most cops searching your car for a detector are slim unless you're observed to have braked when the radar came on (under Virginia law, that's probable cause for a search), but I've always wondered how it'd go if a cop found a detector just the other side of an unlocked ski pass-thru.

(I haven't used a detector in several years because I've slowed down for the most part. I like my low insurance premium, among other reasons.)

[realjd]

Back in the 1990s I used a V1 with the concealed display in Virginia on regular trips between Duke University (where I was a student) and Fairfax (where my parents lived). Never got caught, even the time I hammered the brakes due to a powerful blast of X-band on I-85 when I was doing around 100 mph. I figured the detector fine was cheaper than the speeding fine.

But I always wondered about the trunk exemption if your car has a ski pass-thru (like my current Acura). Odds of most cops searching your car for a detector are slim unless you're observed to have braked when the radar came on (under Virginia law, that's probable cause for a search), but I've always wondered how it'd go if a cop found a detector just the other side of an unlocked ski pass-thru.

(I haven't used a detector in several years because I've slowed down for the most part. I like my low insurance premium, among other reasons.)

I'd expect the trunk exemption for radar detectors to work like the exemption for open containers of alcohol. AFAIK, the passthrough doesn't make it not a trunk for open container laws. And for pickup trucks, behind the front bench seat counts as in the trunk.

[hbelkins]

If you're using a V1, like me, it's rather visible, and a cop pulling you over for some other reason can ticket you for having it in the passenger compartment.  Virginia law doesn't require proof that you were actually using the detector.  But there is an express "in-the-trunk" exemption for unpowered detectors inaccessible to anyone in the passenger compartment, so that you couldn't possibly have been using it. 

I always dismount and hide my V1 before I cross into Virginia or DC, or a Canadian jurisdiction where detectors are illegal (all but the provinces from Saskatchewan on west), and re-mount when it becomes legal again unless it's a trip into Maryland short enough to be not worth the bother.

Yes, it's a V1, and I did not know that mere possession was illegal, just the use. I've never put it in the trunk; I always just threw it in the floor or in the seat somewhere that I could grab it and put it up on the fly when I crossed the state line into a less-oppressive jurisdiction.  :police:

[1995hoo]

Back in the 1990s I used a V1 with the concealed display in Virginia on regular trips between Duke University (where I was a student) and Fairfax (where my parents lived). Never got caught, even the time I hammered the brakes due to a powerful blast of X-band on I-85 when I was doing around 100 mph. I figured the detector fine was cheaper than the speeding fine.

But I always wondered about the trunk exemption if your car has a ski pass-thru (like my current Acura). Odds of most cops searching your car for a detector are slim unless you're observed to have braked when the radar came on (under Virginia law, that's probable cause for a search), but I've always wondered how it'd go if a cop found a detector just the other side of an unlocked ski pass-thru.

(I haven't used a detector in several years because I've slowed down for the most part. I like my low insurance premium, among other reasons.)

I'd expect the trunk exemption for radar detectors to work like the exemption for open containers of alcohol. AFAIK, the passthrough doesn't make it not a trunk for open container laws. And for pickup trucks, behind the front bench seat counts as in the trunk.

Yeah, but the reason I wondered about it is that the Virginia "trunk exemption" specifically states that the detector must (a) have no power source and (b) be inaccessible to anyone in the passenger compartment. Theoretically if you got an asshole cop he might nail you if he searches your car (which the Virginia courts have said he can do if you're seen to brake when he activates his radar) and finds a detector just the other side of the ski pass-thru, assuming there's someone riding in the back seat. In that situation it would be quite obvious that you'd braked, then pulled the detector off the windshield and had the passenger stick it in the trunk.

I have no idea if any cops actually do that; my point was simply that with the way the law is written, in theory they could.



I never used to stick mine in the trunk in Virginia (stuffed it under the driver's seat when I wasn't using it), but on trips to Canada I'd always stop at the last rest area and stash it inside a duffel or a suitcase in the trunk.

[kphoger]

I never used to stick mine in the trunk in Virginia (stuffed it under the driver's seat when I wasn't using it), but on trips to Canada I'd always stop at the last rest area and stash it inside a duffel or a suitcase in the trunk.

Are there devices that are illegal in Canada but legal the US, or vice versa?  Walkie-talkies are illegal in México, so we hide ours when we cross the border; they only raise eyebrows, though, if you already look suspicious–like you might be the type to use your walkie-talkie to facilitate arms smuggling or something.  The reason they're illegal there is because the frequency range our walkie-talkies use is not open for public civilian use in México the way it is in the US and Canada.  I just wondered what similar situations there are at our northern border.

[oscar]

Yes, it's a V1, and I did not know that mere possession was illegal, just the use. I've never put it in the trunk; I always just threw it in the floor or in the seat somewhere that I could grab it and put it up on the fly when I crossed the state line into a less-oppressive jurisdiction.

FWIW, in D.C. simple possession is nominally illegal, with no "in the trunk" exemption (unlike Virginia, where only use is prohibited, but use is presumed if the detector is in the passenger compartment).  But I've never heard of the D.C. police doing a vehicle search for a detector, unless the presence or use of a detector is obvious.

I don't know what the legalities or practice is in the Canadian provinces (seven of ten) or territories (all three) where detector use and/or possession are illegal.  Except, Yukon and I think also NWT tell you to dismount and hide your detector when you cross their borders, so in-the-trunk possession seems to be a non-issue with them. 

[1995hoo]

I never used to stick mine in the trunk in Virginia (stuffed it under the driver's seat when I wasn't using it), but on trips to Canada I'd always stop at the last rest area and stash it inside a duffel or a suitcase in the trunk.

Are there devices that are illegal in Canada but legal the US, or vice versa?  Walkie-talkies are illegal in México, so we hide ours when we cross the border; they only raise eyebrows, though, if you already look suspicious–like you might be the type to use your walkie-talkie to facilitate arms smuggling or something.  The reason they're illegal there is because the frequency range our walkie-talkies use is not open for public civilian use in México the way it is in the US and Canada.  I just wondered what similar situations there are at our northern border.

I know it's illegal to use any radar detector at least in Ontario and Quebec and I had read that even possessing one is illegal in Quebec, to the point where the police confiscate them. I didn't want to take any chances, you know?

[Dr Frankenstein]

Possession and even sale of radar detectors is illegal in Québec. If caught, you get a $500+fees ticket (nearly $650) and your detector is seized and destroyed (or your car is seized if the detector isn't easily removable.) After a deadly accident in 2002, a coroner called for even harsher penalties (one month car seizure and three month license suspension), but thankfully, they did not pass. Sale is also banned in Ontario.

In fact, mere possession is illegal in most provinces and territories except BC, Alberta and Saskatchewan, where they're allowed. In most cases, it's a fine ranging from $100 to $1,000 and forfeiture to the Crown. (IOW, confiscation and probably destruction).

You can get your device back in Manitoba after you appear in front of a judge and use the right arguments. Only use is illegal in PEI, in which case you'll lose the device (it basically has to be disconnected and stored in your trunk or a locked compartment/container.) Detectors are only allowed in non-commercial vehicles in Saskatchewan.

[cpzilliacus]

Yes, it's a V1, and I did not know that mere possession was illegal, just the use. I've never put it in the trunk; I always just threw it in the floor or in the seat somewhere that I could grab it and put it up on the fly when I crossed the state line into a less-oppressive jurisdiction.

FWIW, in D.C. simple possession is nominally illegal, with no "in the trunk" exemption (unlike Virginia, where only use is prohibited, but use is presumed if the detector is in the passenger compartment).  But I've never heard of the D.C. police doing a vehicle search for a detector, unless the presence or use of a detector is obvious.

Though possession of  a radar detector in the  District of Columbia could (until recently) subject you to arrest, and I don't mean a mere traffic stop and ticket - I mean arrest as in handcuffs and take you to the police station in the back of a cage car or patrol wagon.

[kphoger]

I never used to stick mine in the trunk in Virginia (stuffed it under the driver's seat when I wasn't using it), but on trips to Canada I'd always stop at the last rest area and stash it inside a duffel or a suitcase in the trunk.

Are there devices that are illegal in Canada but legal the US, or vice versa?  Walkie-talkies are illegal in México, so we hide ours when we cross the border; they only raise eyebrows, though, if you already look suspicious—like you might be the type to use your walkie-talkie to facilitate arms smuggling or something.  The reason they're illegal there is because the frequency range our walkie-talkies use is not open for public civilian use in México the way it is in the US and Canada.  I just wondered what similar situations there are at our northern border.

I know it's illegal to use any radar detector at least in Ontario and Quebec and I had read that even possessing one is illegal in Quebec, to the point where the police confiscate them. I didn't want to take any chances, you know?

I really meant other than radar detectors, since those laws obviously vary by state and province.

[NE2]

Do Cuban cigars count as devices?

[kphoger]

Do Cuban cigars count as devices?

Only if they explode.

[bugo]

I used to take the radar detector down when I drove through Virginia, now I just turn it off but leave it up. It's a PITA to put it back up while driving, and unless I need to stop for a different reason, I generally don't like to pull off at welcome centers/rest areas/wide spots off the road just to put it up. Since Virginia cops have detector-detectors, they will know that it was not in operation even if they pull me over for something else. Of course I generally watch my speed in Virginia so I won't get pulled over.

Never say you won't get pulled over.  I've been pulled over for doing nothing before.  If a cop decides they want to give you hell they'll make up a reason.

[Takumi]

^ Especially in Virginia.

[ctsignguy]

When i got my first Passport back in the 1980s, i recall Cincinnati Microwave stating that since radar detectors were passive recipients of radar waves (which are nothing more than radio signals anyway), the only way they could be banned was if Congress re-wrote the Federal Communications Act of 1933....but i dont know anyone who has deep enough pockets to take on Virginia or DC on that one...

[oscar]

When i got my first Passport back in the 1980s, i recall Cincinnati Microwave stating that since radar detectors were passive recipients of radar waves (which are nothing more than radio signals anyway), the only way they could be banned was if Congress re-wrote the Federal Communications Act of 1933....but i dont know anyone who has deep enough pockets to take on Virginia or DC on that one...

I think Virginia's reasoning was that it wasn't banning detectors, only their use in a vehicle, at least on a public road.  (The law does ban some sales of radar detectors, though.)  That would make its law primarily a regulation of motorists and driving rather than of radio receivers.  Virginians are free to listen to their radar detectors, pointlessly, in their homes, etc.

Not that it affects the legalities, but the circuits in most or all radar detectors do emit some radio waves.  That's what gets picked up by radar detector detectors. 

[Scott5114]

What I don't get is how they sold the radar detector ban as a good thing to their constituents. What was the rationale, stopping criminals from avoiding speeding tickets? If that went over well enough in VA, why didn't any other state pick up on it? (State laws tend to run in fads...)

[cpzilliacus]

What I don't get is how they sold the radar detector ban as a good thing to their constituents. What was the rationale, stopping criminals from avoiding speeding tickets? If that went over well enough in VA, why didn't any other state pick up on it? (State laws tend to run in fads...)

Radar detectors have been unlawful in the Commonwealth of Virginia for as long as I can remember (going back to the 1960's).

Maryland has never seriously considered a similar ban (though they are outlawed in commercial vehicles). 

As a Maryland voter, I would be very happy with such a ban being enacted, as long as it went with a significant increase in the statutory maximum speed limit.

[1995hoo]

What I don't get is how they sold the radar detector ban as a good thing to their constituents. What was the rationale, stopping criminals from avoiding speeding tickets? If that went over well enough in VA, why didn't any other state pick up on it? (State laws tend to run in fads...)

I'm not old enough to remember when the ban was enacted, but I doubt they sold it at all–I'm sure they simply enacted the law and said "this is how it shall be." That tends to be the way it works in Virginia. The only time I can remember people truly getting up in arms enough about an elected official's performance in office to vote him out based on his performance (and not on other factors) was when Stan Parris lost his seat in Congress in 1990. He represented a district in Northern Virginia and he voted against a pay raise for federal employees. Given the huge number of federal employees in the area, he was essentially committing political suicide. Other than that, though, I don't ever remember a Virginia politician losing his seat because of his job performance, and there have been some politicians re-elected even after inspiring the public's wrath (most notably David Albo, a member of the House of Delegates who sponsored the "abusive driver fees" that stuck in-state residents with a $3,000 penalty for various traffic offenses....the fees were repealed and his district re-elected him). Former US Senator George Allen lost his seat, but a large part of that was a major PR gaffe he committed during his 2006 re-election campaign.

One other thought on detectors.....didn't the first radar detectors appear on the market in the mid-1970s? I was born in 1973 and so don't remember, but I've read that initially when the NMSL was enacted in 1973 sales of CB radios spiked until radar detectors appeared a couple of years later. But at the same time, the NMSL was enacted during one of the oil shortages, so to the extent the radar detector ban may have been enacted right around the same time as an oil shortage, it may have been an easier "sell."

The Virginia statute dates back, in some form, to 1962; it was amended in 1975, 1976, 1978, 1981, 1989, 1992, and 1998. But the Legislative Information Service doesn't provide a way to see what changed each time, so I don't know what the original 1962 statute said or how it was changed. The flurry of amendments from 1975 to 1981 makes me strongly suspect they enacted most of the radar detector wording around that time as the devices appeared and became more sophisticated. I know at some point they amended it (in response to a court ruling) to prohibit confiscation of the devices except for evidentiary purposes, and I'm sure some of the 1990s-era amendments had to do with adding restrictions relating to laser detectors once the police started using laser enforcement.

Incidentally, there was at least one other state that banned radar detectors–Connecticut did–but their ban has been repealed.

[BamaZeus]

When we lived in CT, my father always claimed he had the excuse-in-waiting that he was broadcasting on that frequency, via his ham radio, and therefore he couldn't be ticketed for having the radar detector. 

Part of me REALLLLLY wanted us to get pulled over just once, just to see him try floating that excuse on a real cop, but alas he never got caught speeding anywhere. 

As a side note, after his passing years later, when I was managing his estate years, I saw among his papers he had received a speeding ticket in VT.  I wonder if he was still using a radar detector then, and what happened when he was pulled over.