AARoads Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: US 6 and the Hollywood Freeway  (Read 13366 times)

sdmichael

US 6 and the Hollywood Freeway
« on: April 22, 2013, 05:29:37 PM »

After digging through my archives, I finally found the sign plans for the 5/170 interchange showing US 6 and not SR-170 heading down the Hollywood Freeway.





More information on my website - http://www.scvresources.com/highways/la_highways/sr-170/

Logged

Alps

  • Everybody Obeys the Octagon
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 11123
  • Hope for the Alan!

  • Age: 34
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Last Login: Today at 12:00:24 AM
    • Alps' Roads
Re: US 6 and the Hollywood Freeway
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2013, 06:03:26 PM »

6 ended at 66, multiplexed with 101, according to your map - suffice to say a lot doesn't make sense, but it's not surprising US 6 ended up truncated in the end.
Logged
~ Steve
http://www.alpsroads.net
I've listened many times, and I still can't figure out what the fox says.

"YOUR NAME IS NAMED AFTER A BUTT"

sdmichael

Re: US 6 and the Hollywood Freeway
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2013, 07:18:18 PM »

US 6 was planned to go down the Hollywood Freeway from the Golden State Freeway to the Harbor Freeway. It just never did though it was briefly signed on the Hollywood Freeway SB at the Ventura Freeway. It doesn't make much sense as it only had US 6 on its own from the Golden State to the Ventura.
Logged

thenetwork

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2040
  • Age: 2013
  • Location: Grand Junction, Colorado
  • Last Login: November 19, 2017, 11:25:44 AM
Re: US 6 and the Hollywood Freeway
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2013, 07:48:12 PM »

After digging through my archives, I finally found the sign plans for the 5/170 interchange showing US 6 and not SR-170 heading down the Hollywood Freeway.





So was the Ventura Freeway between US-101 & I-5/US-99 numbered at this time, since CA-134 was still on the surface streets?
Logged

sdmichael

Re: US 6 and the Hollywood Freeway
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2013, 08:16:35 PM »

As far as I know, the map isn't accurate in that regard. SR-134 was signed on the Ventura Freeway upon opening. I have personally seen one of the old signs from the Ventura Freeway with two white 134 shields.
Logged

The High Plains Traveler

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1097
  • Age: Just an old prairie dog

  • Location: Pueblo West CO
  • Last Login: October 03, 2017, 07:30:21 PM
    • Unofficial Minnesota and New Mexico Highway Pages
Re: US 6 and the Hollywood Freeway
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2013, 10:25:36 PM »

I think this plan was unveiled in 1963, one year before the major renumbering. I don't think you can infer anything about the solo U.S. 6 marker on the Hollywood Freeway, other than it was added to the map before the cartographers had a chance to design the appropriate multiple route number shields including a 6/66/101.

EDIT: And by "plan unveiled" I mean printed on a general distribution map.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2013, 10:29:19 PM by The High Plains Traveler »
Logged
"Tongue-tied and twisted; just an earth-bound misfit, I."

sdmichael

Re: US 6 and the Hollywood Freeway
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2013, 10:40:59 PM »

I should clarify my post. The US 6 shield is on Lankershim Blvd, not the Hollywood Freeway, in the San Fernando Valley. It wasn't built yet. US 6 was indeed signed, albeit briefly, from around Chandler Blvd to the Ventura Freeway on the Hollywood Freeway. I have a photo that shows it. US 6 itself was cut short earlier than some of the other routes. The first segment of the Antelope Valley Freeway was opened on August 23, 1963 and was only signed as SR-14. As such, the plan for US 6 to be signed on the Hollywood is still something of an enigma as it wasn't to fully open until AFTER 1964.
Logged

DTComposer

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 694
  • Location: San Jose
  • Last Login: November 19, 2017, 10:46:22 PM
Re: US 6 and the Hollywood Freeway
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2013, 11:14:49 PM »

US 6 was planned to go down the Hollywood Freeway from the Golden State Freeway to the Harbor Freeway. It just never did though it was briefly signed on the Hollywood Freeway SB at the Ventura Freeway. It doesn't make much sense as it only had US 6 on its own from the Golden State to the Ventura.

I've seen plenty of maps that had US-6 go down the Harbor Freeway, then west on PCH into Long Beach:

http://www.cosmos-monitor.com/ca/map1961/insets/la-vicinity.html

Plus, there's a plaque in downtown Long Beach marking the end of the Grand Army of the Republic highway.
Logged

sdmichael

Re: US 6 and the Hollywood Freeway
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2013, 12:00:54 AM »

US 6 had always (post-freeway) taken the Harbor Freeway. What is odd is the planned, yet never fully implemented for many reasons, split from US 99 in Arleta to meet its "old" routing at the Four Level Interchange.
Logged

Alps

  • Everybody Obeys the Octagon
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 11123
  • Hope for the Alan!

  • Age: 34
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Last Login: Today at 12:00:24 AM
    • Alps' Roads
Re: US 6 and the Hollywood Freeway
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2013, 12:23:05 AM »

Plus, there's a plaque in downtown Long Beach marking the end of the Grand Army of the Republic highway.
Say whaaaa? Do I have to go back just for that? (Yes)
Logged
~ Steve
http://www.alpsroads.net
I've listened many times, and I still can't figure out what the fox says.

"YOUR NAME IS NAMED AFTER A BUTT"

sdmichael

Re: US 6 and the Hollywood Freeway
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2013, 01:13:22 AM »

I should post photos of it on my US 6 page... only seems fair. It is on Ocean Blvd just east of Long Beach Blvd. I'm not quite sure why it was put there. I suspect it wasn't originally placed there.
Logged

DTComposer

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 694
  • Location: San Jose
  • Last Login: November 19, 2017, 10:46:22 PM
Re: US 6 and the Hollywood Freeway
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2013, 02:07:42 AM »

US 6 had always (post-freeway) taken the Harbor Freeway. What is odd is the planned, yet never fully implemented for many reasons, split from US 99 in Arleta to meet its "old" routing at the Four Level Interchange.

My apologies, I misunderstood what you were saying.

Plus, there's a plaque in downtown Long Beach marking the end of the Grand Army of the Republic highway.
Say whaaaa? Do I have to go back just for that? (Yes)
I should post photos of it on my US 6 page... only seems fair. It is on Ocean Blvd just east of Long Beach Blvd. I'm not quite sure why it was put there. I suspect it wasn't originally placed there.

It was originally placed at that intersection in front of the old Municipal Auditorium. When that was replaced with the (not nearly as pretty) Performing Arts Center, they re-installed it:

http://goo.gl/maps/SEjyr

Although it's a well over a mile from the historical official end of US 6, I imagine the location, being at the time on the shoreline (most of the land south of Ocean Boulevard is landfill) made a scenic place to mark the end of a coast-to-coast highway.

This site has some good photos, including the plaque:

http://scottymoore.net/longbeach.html
Logged

The High Plains Traveler

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1097
  • Age: Just an old prairie dog

  • Location: Pueblo West CO
  • Last Login: October 03, 2017, 07:30:21 PM
    • Unofficial Minnesota and New Mexico Highway Pages
Re: US 6 and the Hollywood Freeway
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2013, 05:48:08 AM »

I should clarify my post. The US 6 shield is on Lankershim Blvd, not the Hollywood Freeway, in the San Fernando Valley. It wasn't built yet. US 6 was indeed signed, albeit briefly, from around Chandler Blvd to the Ventura Freeway on the Hollywood Freeway. I have a photo that shows it. US 6 itself was cut short earlier than some of the other routes. The first segment of the Antelope Valley Freeway was opened on August 23, 1963 and was only signed as SR-14. As such, the plan for US 6 to be signed on the Hollywood is still something of an enigma as it wasn't to fully open until AFTER 1964.
If the AV Freeway was opened in 1963 and signed as CA-14, wasn't Artesia Blvd. still signed with that number as well? I don't think Artesia got the 91 designation until the next year, along with changes on the other affected routes.
Logged
"Tongue-tied and twisted; just an earth-bound misfit, I."

Alex

  • Webmaster
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 4687
  • Location: Tampa, FL
  • Last Login: November 01, 2017, 02:06:52 PM
    • AARoads
Re: US 6 and the Hollywood Freeway
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2013, 10:45:09 AM »

I should post photos of it on my US 6 page... only seems fair. It is on Ocean Blvd just east of Long Beach Blvd. I'm not quite sure why it was put there. I suspect it wasn't originally placed there.

Andy has two photos of it on the site from when you, he and I checked it out in 2008:

agentsteel53

  • invisible hand
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 15374
  • long live button copy!

  • Age: 36
  • Location: San Diego, CA
  • Last Login: November 21, 2016, 09:58:39 AM
    • AARoads Shield Gallery
Re: US 6 and the Hollywood Freeway
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2013, 02:51:31 PM »

If the AV Freeway was opened in 1963 and signed as CA-14, wasn't Artesia Blvd. still signed with that number as well? I don't think Artesia got the 91 designation until the next year, along with changes on the other affected routes.

certain route designations were changed before 1964.  I know CA-10 became CA-42 by 1961.  CA-14 may have experienced a similar switch, in which case US-91 was likely truncated a year or two early.
Logged

NE2

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 13221
  • not a kook

  • Age: 9
  • Location: central Florida
  • Last Login: November 19, 2017, 11:05:41 PM
Re: US 6 and the Hollywood Freeway
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2013, 03:02:50 PM »

10 to 42 was a special case because of the nearness of I-10. It had nothing to do with the 1964 renumbering.

The Caltrans 1963 map shows US 6 and SR 14 in their old locations: http://cahighways.org/maps/1963routes.jpg

PS: as for the plans in the original post, I see 'temp blank panel cover'. So it's possible that US 6 never was signed along the Hollywood alignment.
Logged
Florida route log | pre-1945
I stand with any member of any group who Trump hates. I will do my best to not make America hate again.

agentsteel53

  • invisible hand
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 15374
  • long live button copy!

  • Age: 36
  • Location: San Diego, CA
  • Last Login: November 21, 2016, 09:58:39 AM
    • AARoads Shield Gallery
Re: US 6 and the Hollywood Freeway
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2013, 03:07:38 PM »

I see 'temp blank panel cover'.

which is probably what happened with the Antelope Valley Freeway, now that I think about it.  permanent 14 shields, with 6 patched over them temporarily.

at some point I will need to look more closely at those signs to see if there is evidence (bolt holes) of US-6 covers.  I have verified that the signs indeed say C-63 on the back.
Logged

sdmichael

Re: US 6 and the Hollywood Freeway
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2013, 05:36:18 PM »

I've seen 1963 signs with only SR-14 on them on the Antelope Valley Freeway. The TEMP BLANK COVER reference on I-5 was due to the Hollywood Freeway not being built to there yet. Yes, it is all indeed confusing with the number switches. I have photos on my site that do indeed show US 6 being signed on the southern end of the Hollywood Freeway Extension (current SR-170). One of those signs is still up on the freeway, where some greenout had fallen to reveal a WEST banner. It has since been covered up but I have a photo.
Logged

agentsteel53

  • invisible hand
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 15374
  • long live button copy!

  • Age: 36
  • Location: San Diego, CA
  • Last Login: November 21, 2016, 09:58:39 AM
    • AARoads Shield Gallery
Re: US 6 and the Hollywood Freeway
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2013, 05:48:23 PM »

I've seen 1963 signs with only SR-14 on them on the Antelope Valley Freeway.
and did they have a TEMP US-6 COVER on them?

Quote
I have photos on my site that do indeed show US 6 being signed on the southern end of the Hollywood Freeway Extension (current SR-170).
found it.  US-6 actually signed on the Hollywood in 1962.  I'll be damned.  so at one point this was a continuous routing - 5 to 170 to 101 to 110?
Logged

sdmichael

Re: US 6 and the Hollywood Freeway
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2013, 06:04:38 PM »

None of the signs on the Antelope Valley Freeway had US 6 on them. I've seen the sign plans and some of the original signs at Sand Canyon Road. As to US 6 being continuous... it remains to be seen. So far, it was signed on the 170 at the south end. Sign plans (though never implemented that way) show it on the northern end of the 170. I will be making a trip to Caltrans D7 and getting some more copies of the sign plans, so I'll see what I can dig up.
Logged

J N Winkler

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 5318
  • Location: Wichita, Kansas/Oxford, Great Britain
  • Last Login: Today at 12:18:53 AM
Re: US 6 and the Hollywood Freeway
« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2013, 06:28:45 PM »

As far as I know, the map isn't accurate in that regard. SR-134 was signed on the Ventura Freeway upon opening. I have personally seen one of the old signs from the Ventura Freeway with two white 134 shields.

I have a copy of the signing plans for the Ventura Freeway immediately east of the US 101 interchange (title sheet signature date of January 30, 1961) and they do show the SR 134 designation on the signs.  The same plans also show US 6 on the Hollywood Freeway, with control points of Hollywood in the southbound direction (US 6 West) and San Fernando in the northbound (US 6 East).  These signing plans are available online through the LA DPW Engineering Vault under their reference number D-16576:  federal-aid project number U-0102(1)2, (old-style) Caltrans project number 60-7V13C69-FI.
Logged
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

sdmichael

Re: US 6 and the Hollywood Freeway
« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2013, 06:35:33 PM »

I will have to check that out. I've looked at the LADPW drawings before for local roadways, hadn't thought about freeways.
Logged

J N Winkler

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 5318
  • Location: Wichita, Kansas/Oxford, Great Britain
  • Last Login: Today at 12:18:53 AM
Re: US 6 and the Hollywood Freeway
« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2013, 08:19:10 PM »

I have found the LA DPW to be a pretty good resource for Caltrans stuff, largely because it is accessible online.  One would never expect it to be the primary record-holder for Caltrans infrastructure, coverage has holes even within the LA city limits (for example, I tried to find the signing plans you excerpted in your original post, and could not do it), a lot of the microfilm (or scans therefrom) is not up to snuff, and LA tends not to archive later rehabilitation contracts for lengths of state route for which it has the original construction plans.  However, all of these disadvantages are counterbalanced by the ability to research stuff 24/7 and download copies free of charge.  The engineering vault also has some unexpected surprises, such as the 1966 signing contract which changed out the original, early-1950's signing near the Four Level.

As far as I am aware, most if not all of the Caltrans districts have their as-built libraries in electronic format, but none of them are using electronic document management systems to store them that are exposed to public search.  District 3 offers plans retrieval by email--you email them the routes and postmile intervals you are interested in, they send you a Falcon listing of plans for projects which overlap those postmile intervals, you order off that "menu," and the plans you select are then uploaded to the Caltrans FTP server--but I know of no other district which has a similar service.  I have heard that District 7 gets so many plan requests that they in effect rely on collection in person as a rationing mechanism (if you are able to collect in person, your request is processed; otherwise it is put on the back burner).
Logged
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

The High Plains Traveler

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1097
  • Age: Just an old prairie dog

  • Location: Pueblo West CO
  • Last Login: October 03, 2017, 07:30:21 PM
    • Unofficial Minnesota and New Mexico Highway Pages
Re: US 6 and the Hollywood Freeway
« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2013, 10:19:56 PM »

For all the discussion of U.S. 6 being signed on the Hollywood - and as a young teen, I had very little reason to be driven on that road - I will say that it didn't disappear from the Harbor Freeway until the 1964 renumbering. I also don't recall seeing any signage from the Harbor showing a new U.S. 6 routing on the Hollywood Freeway. I don't think any of the above is dispositive as to whether U.S. 6 would have continued on its previous routing south of Downtown or whether it would have terminated at Downtown.
Logged
"Tongue-tied and twisted; just an earth-bound misfit, I."

jrouse

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 236
  • Location: Sacramento, CA
  • Last Login: November 11, 2017, 06:54:07 PM
Re: US 6 and the Hollywood Freeway
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2013, 10:01:16 AM »

I have found the LA DPW to be a pretty good resource for Caltrans stuff, largely because it is accessible online.  One would never expect it to be the primary record-holder for Caltrans infrastructure....

This is because the first freeways (initially called parkways) in Los Angeles were actually designed by the city itself.  The state took over the design responsibility a few years later.
Logged

 


Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.