NJDOT screwing up cardinal directions

[J Route Z]

What is up with this? County Route 561 is a major road across the state of NJ. It is a north south road, according to this: http://www.state.nj.us/transportation/refdata/sldiag/00000561__-.pdf

Now, take a look at these signs. This is on Route 154 approaching CR 561: https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=39.890855,-75.018232&spn=0.0081,0.021136&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=39.891213,-75.018099&panoid=roWu54QTN4a1mSiXqqXnew&cbp=12,235.01,,0,6.12 Notice the sign reads East and West.

But then, when you make a left on 561 (according to the sign, eastbound), you will see this shield: https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=39.88969,-75.018768&spn=0.002042,0.005284&t=m&z=18&layer=c&cbll=39.889623,-75.018694&panoid=X8tLeopI67nOjZO8br7ITw&cbp=12,191.14,,0,6.21 which clearly says "south".

Then if you make a right, "westbound", you will see this: https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=39.890213,-75.019321&spn=0.002042,0.005284&t=m&z=18&layer=c&cbll=39.890153,-75.019199&panoid=dPVWw09utKkeMfvCLQU2KQ&cbp=12,345.88,,0,4.11 reading "north".

And the overhead sign attached to the traffic light has the "S" with an arrow: https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=39.889774,-75.018851&spn=0.001021,0.002642&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=39.889713,-75.018791&panoid=61TqlsyYRl6-YDy-bc9e0w&cbp=12,40.34,,1,-7.86

Just down the road where 561 intersects I-295, guide signs on the ramps also indicate that 561 is an east-west road. Take a look:
https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=39.879634,-75.009069&spn=0.004084,0.010568&t=m&z=17&layer=c&cbll=39.879533,-75.009131&panoid=WJMQh0uoG-HZGD3MSFR1jQ&cbp=12,36.59,,0,1.69

Where 561 is in Atlantic County, the signs read: https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=39.44945,-74.471641&spn=0.016437,0.042272&t=m&z=15&layer=c&cbll=39.449365,-74.471726&panoid=NjzPm3sXsfU-zRWolZruUQ&cbp=12,55.83,,0,4.2

I have contacted the DOT regarding the signs on the I-295 ramps. They were not at all helpful.

[Alps]

CR 561, 571, and 526 all have signing that alternates between directions. Sometimes, it varies by county - Ocean signs 571 as east-west, Monmouth signs 526 as north-south (I think), etc. It gets so bad that sometimes, you turn left on a nominally east-west route, but the county has signed it north-south, and the contractor goes by whichever way the road is actually pointing at that time - and you end up with a reversed "west-east" route!

[jeffandnicole]

Since Rt. 561 is a road that goes thru several counties, I don't know if it's really a NJDOT issue, or a county-level issue. 

I think NJ Route 36 suffers some of the same issues.  For some reason the 'S' and 'N' on some of the traffic light mast signs for Rt. 36 are covered. 

[Alps]

Since Rt. 561 is a road that goes thru several counties, I don't know if it's really a NJDOT issue, or a county-level issue. 

I think NJ Route 36 suffers some of the same issues.  For some reason the 'S' and 'N' on some of the traffic light mast signs for Rt. 36 are covered. 

Covered on which stretch? The southern leg of 36 was east-west for many years, but was converted to north-south so that NJ 36 didn't reverse direction from top to bottom. As far as I know, the top half of 36 is still officially east-west, and so N/S on the signal overheads would be wrong there.

[jeffandnicole]

More of the bottom stretch, where 36 is known as Joline Ave (Between the Parkway & Ocean Blvd).  http://goo.gl/maps/s1brX is about the best screen image shot I could find, which shows the sign blade but not the 'N' & 'S' (or the green-over to cover the direction).  I would think that if the sign was simply reversed, they could have reversed the sign.  Maybe it's correct on the other side, and they just covered up this side.  Not sure, but the N & S are definitely covered.

[Kacie Jane]

Since Rt. 561 is a road that goes thru several counties, I don't know if it's really a NJDOT issue, or a county-level issue. 

I think NJ Route 36 suffers some of the same issues.  For some reason the 'S' and 'N' on some of the traffic light mast signs for Rt. 36 are covered. 

Covered on which stretch? The southern leg of 36 was east-west for many years, but was converted to north-south so that NJ 36 didn't reverse direction from top to bottom. As far as I know, the top half of 36 is still officially east-west, and so N/S on the signal overheads would be wrong there.

I could have sworn it was the northern leg they switched to N/S.

[roadman65]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/8499662801/in/set-72157632833956641/lightbox/
From the GSP Exit 117, NJ 36 is still signed EAST.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/8501125527/in/set-72157632833956641
It is signed N-S from Sandy Hook.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Keansburg,+NJ&hl=en&ll=40.437067,-74.140549&spn=0.007039,0.013797&sll=27.698638,-83.804601&sspn=8.300816,14.128418&oq=kean&t=h&hnear=Keansburg,+Monmouth,+New+Jersey&z=16&layer=c&cbll=40.437082,-74.140661&panoid=RZ62dSm3xHqDKnAvIVUoCw&cbp=12,150,,0,0
A shield near Laurel Avenue in Hazlet  showing NJ 36 as SOUTH.


So it could be still confusing like CR 561.

[KEVIN_224]

I can't speak on the state level for these types of roads, since Connecticut has no signed county routes (we only hear "county" for jury duty and weather warnings). However, I do have a question about US/interstate routes and cardinal directions:

US Route 4 runs from Portsmouth, NH to East Greenbush, NY (southeast of Albany). I know US Routes and interstates with an even number are supposed to be east/west routes. However, New York signs their portion of US Route 4 as north/south.

It also makes me think about I-380 outside of Scranton, PA, including the last leg that runs with I-84 to Dunmore. It's signed north/south, yet I think it was once signed east/west.

[dgolub]

I can't speak on the state level for these types of roads, since Connecticut has no signed county routes (we only hear "county" for jury duty and weather warnings). However, I do have a question about US/interstate routes and cardinal directions:

US Route 4 runs from Portsmouth, NH to East Greenbush, NY (southeast of Albany). I know US Routes and interstates with an even number are supposed to be east/west routes. However, New York signs their portion of US Route 4 as north/south.

It also makes me think about I-380 outside of Scranton, PA, including the last leg that runs with I-84 to Dunmore. It's signed north/south, yet I think it was once signed east/west.

There's a few places where this happens with three-digit routes.  US 202 is signed as east/west in certain states and north/south in other.  I-287 is signed as east/west in New York and north/south in New Jersey.  Then, of course, there's I-695 around Baltimore, which is a closed circle.

[akotchi]

NJ 440 is like that also.  Straight Line Diagram indicates N-S, but there might still be some East/West panels in the southern section in the Perth Amboy area.  The Hudson County section has always been North/South.

MD 4 southeast of Washington changes from east-west to north-south right at the Beltway.

[cpzilliacus]

MD 4 southeast of Washington changes from east-west to north-south right at the Beltway.

Not the only one like that in Maryland.

Md. 32 is signed east and west between I-97 and Md. 108 (Clarksville) and north and south between Md. 108 and Md. 97 near Westminster.

U.S. 340 is signed east and west in Maryland, but north and south in Virginia and West Virginia.

[Alps]

NJ 440 is like that also.  Straight Line Diagram indicates N-S, but there might still be some East/West panels in the southern section in the Perth Amboy area.  The Hudson County section has always been North/South.

They replaced the US 9 SB overhead sign with an exact replica - keeping the damn East/West!

[PHLBOS]

There's a few places where this happens with three-digit routes.  US 202 is signed as east/west in certain states and north/south in other.  I-287 is signed as east/west in New York and north/south in New Jersey.

I believe that US 202 is signed east/west in CT and, possibly NH.  Everywhere else, it's north-south.

In the case of I-287, the cardinal change-over is at an obvious location (I-87/NY Thruway Interchange 15) and not an error; one also needs to remember that 287 in northern NJ had a gap that wasn't closed until the early 90s.

In RI, Route 138 from Newport (just north of the Newport Bridge at Admiral Kalbus Road) to the MA state line is north-south but from Newport westward (including both the Newprt & Jamestown Bridges), it's an east-west road.  Again, the direction change-point is at an obvious location; the Admiral Kalbus Road interchange.

[dgolub]

There's a few places where this happens with three-digit routes.  US 202 is signed as east/west in certain states and north/south in other.  I-287 is signed as east/west in New York and north/south in New Jersey.

I believe that US 202 is signed east/west in CT and, possibly NH.  Everywhere else, it's north-south.

In the case of I-287, the cardinal change-over is at an obvious location (I-87/NY Thruway Interchange 15) and not an error; one also needs to remember that 287 in northern NJ had a gap that wasn't closed until the early 90s.

US 202 is east/west in New York as well.

I wasn't trying to say that the I-287 inconsistency was an error.  To the contrary, not changing the compass direction would be confusing given its semicircular route.

It also just hit me that NY 17 also changes direction, in this case within a single state.  However, once the construction is completed, the east/west portion will become I-86, leaving what's left of NY 17 as exclusively north/south.

[PHLBOS]

US 202 is east/west in New York as well.

Thanks for the update/correction.

[roadman65]

How about the US 101 in Washington's Olympic Penisula?  I do not even think there is a crossroad where the signing changes place either.

At least in Florida, we have US 98 change cardinal direction in Perry and once again at the Martin/ Okeechobee County Line.  Also US 41, changes from N-S to E-W at the Collier/ Miami-Dade County Border.

In Orlando we have FL 436 that changes at the Orange/ Seminole County Line (north of FL 426) from N-S between that point and the Orlando International Airport, and E-W from there to US 441 in Apopka.

Another note is that FL 826 changes from N-S to E-W at the actual curve where its freeway makes a 90 degree turn north of Hialeah.

NJ, though, takes the cake with NJ 36 (as I believe its at the discression of the sign installer) and NJ 440 at New Brunwick Avenue in Fords, NJ along the GSP service road as Steve mentioned if I think I know where he means.

[Interstatefan78]

What about CR-501 it has the same situation as NJ-36 in CR-501's case East-West in Middlesex County then North South in Bergen and Hudson Counties. The SLD lists CR-501 as North to South
http://www.state.nj.us/transportation/refdata/sldiag/00000501__-.pdf

[Alps]

What about CR-501 it has the same situation as NJ-36 in CR-501's case East-West in Middlesex County then North South in Bergen and Hudson Counties. The SLD lists CR-501 as North to South
http://www.state.nj.us/transportation/refdata/sldiag/00000501__-.pdf

holy shit NJDOT is not Middlesex County when did that happen oh look i forgot punctuation again

[J Route Z]

The guide signs are on NJDOT maintained roads (such as on I-295 ramps and Route 154). An update, one reassurance route marker has been corrected to saying "north" as opposed to "west", near Haddontowne.

[roadman65]

I would like to know why NJ 42 is signed N-S when it functions as an E-W corridor between the ACE and I-76?  This would never happen if I-76 was assigned to Atlantic City as it should, but it should really be to avoid that confusion being NJ settled on much less interstate mileage then they deserved.

Incidentally, NJ 73 is also signed N-S when in PA it is signed as PA 73 E-W.
One could be said again about NY-MA 43 where in NY its E-W while in MA its N-S.

[hotdogPi]

Incidentally, NJ 73 is also signed N-S when in PA it is signed as PA 73 E-W.
One could be said again about NY-MA 43 where in NY its E-W while in MA its N-S.

MA 111 is N-S; NH 111 is E-W.

MA/NH 97 is similar, but NH 97 is really short.

[BrianP]

I would like to know why NJ 42 is signed N-S when it functions as an E-W corridor between the ACE and I-76?  This would never happen if I-76 was assigned to Atlantic City as it should, but it should really be to avoid that confusion being NJ settled on much less interstate mileage then they deserved.

Incidentally, NJ 73 is also signed N-S when in PA it is signed as PA 73 E-W.
One could be said again about NY-MA 43 where in NY its E-W while in MA its N-S.

If you take the whole corridor in question from Valley Forge down to Atlantic City it is a diagonal route.  It covers the same distance E-W as it does N-S. 

NJ 42 travels about 2.5 times more distance N-S than it does E-W when looking at the freeway part from Bellmawr to Turnersville.  And when you include the whole route to Williamstown it still covers twice as much distance N-S than it does E-W.

The ACE like the whole corridor is also a diagonal route.  It covers close to the same distance E-W as it does N-S.  But the E-W distance is slightly greater. 

NJ 73 covers 2.5 times more distance N-S than E-W.

PA 73 covers about 1.6 times more distance E-W than it does N-S.

[Alps]

I would like to know why NJ 42 is signed N-S when it functions as an E-W corridor between the ACE and I-76?  This would never happen if I-76 was assigned to Atlantic City as it should, but it should really be to avoid that confusion being NJ settled on much less interstate mileage then they deserved.

Incidentally, NJ 73 is also signed N-S when in PA it is signed as PA 73 E-W.
One could be said again about NY-MA 43 where in NY its E-W while in MA its N-S.

If you take the whole corridor in question from Valley Forge down to Atlantic City it is a diagonal route.  It covers the same distance E-W as it does N-S. 

NJ 42 travels about 2.5 times more distance N-S than it does E-W when looking at the freeway part from Bellmawr to Turnersville.  And when you include the whole route to Williamstown it still covers twice as much distance N-S than it does E-W.

The ACE like the whole corridor is also a diagonal route.  It covers close to the same distance E-W as it does N-S.  But the E-W distance is slightly greater. 

NJ 73 covers 2.5 times more distance N-S than E-W.

PA 73 covers about 1.6 times more distance E-W than it does N-S.

PA raises the issue of states with a diagonal setup. In SEPA, state routes mostly follow NE-SW or NW-SE paths. Rather than try to determine whether a route is slightly more east or north, I think the better approach is to pick one trajectory and call it north. In PA's case, I'd pick the NE-SW as the "north-south", because those routes are following the Delaware River down there.  The NW-SE routes are heading away from the river into the state, so call them "east-west". By this same logic, you see NJ 23 and NJ 94 both as north-south routes, yet crossing at a 90-degree angle. 94 ought to be east-west, in keeping with 23, 15, and 208 all being north-south.

This also goes to Interstates. 81 and 85 are north-south, and 24 and 26 are east-west, because they're aligned to the "false north" of the Appalachians. I-74 actually isn't as terrible a number as you'd think if you trace it from the Quad Cities all the way east, in that light.

[jeffandnicole]

When you look at NJ's routes on a map, you realize how much N-S Rt. 42 really is.  The normal thinking is Philly to Atlantic City is a straight ride across South Jersey, but that's hardly the trough truth (love that spellcheck).

Looking at South Philly (Say, around where Genos & Pats Steaks are located), you can draw a straight line across New Jersey and hit Toms River  (39^o 56' vs. 39^o 57').  Almost no one from Philly or South Jersey will think of Philly as being even latitute with Toms River.

In fact, the whole I-95 corridor between Baltimore & Boston is almost just as much an East-West ride as it is a North-South ride.  When you look further west (Pittsburgh, WV, etc), the north-south interstates start taking a much more direct north-south route.

[NJRoadfan]

Didn't CT used to sign I-95 as East/West at one point?

Philly seems so much further away than Tom's River from northern NJ... must be the missing section of I-95 . Many people don't realize that Cape May is at the same latitude as Washington DC.