The Sorry State of Affairs in Automobilia in the 1970s, 80s and 90s

[Henry]

So under the buick line up from 90 2000 generation what do you guys think about them?

I think they are the last car to have that old school look on them but they are 100% cop stoppers now a days, I dont know how people looked at them back then.

They are definitely a good car if they are clean & nice even though I prefer the 80s box model more.


iPhone

In general with GM

Buy:
-G body
-H body
-C Body
-Epsilon body
-S body (NUMMI platform shared with Toyota for the Geo Prizim and Toyota Camry)

Avoid:
U body (minivan platform)
W-Body (ie Chevy Luminas. They were built very poorly.)
GMT 330


Check for defects:
N-bodies
J-bodies

You forgot about the A, B, E, F, T and X bodies. If I were to venture a guess, I'd say buy for the B, E and F, avoid for the T and X, and check for defects for the A.

[Max Rockatansky]

So under the buick line up from 90 2000 generation what do you guys think about them?

I think they are the last car to have that old school look on them but they are 100% cop stoppers now a days, I dont know how people looked at them back then.

They are definitely a good car if they are clean & nice even though I prefer the 80s box model more.


iPhone

In general with GM

Buy:
-G body
-H body
-C Body
-Epsilon body
-S body (NUMMI platform shared with Toyota for the Geo Prizim and Toyota Camry)

Avoid:
U body (minivan platform)
W-Body (ie Chevy Luminas. They were built very poorly.)
GMT 330


Check for defects:
N-bodies
J-bodies

You forgot about the A, B, E, F, T and X bodies. If I were to venture a guess, I'd say buy for the B, E and F, avoid for the T and X, and check for defects for the A.

I've found the F Body cars have a lot of build quality issues no matter the generation.  But then again a Camaro and/or Firebird will always be desirable. 

[Takumi]

So under the buick line up from 90 2000 generation what do you guys think about them?

I think they are the last car to have that old school look on them but they are 100% cop stoppers now a days, I dont know how people looked at them back then.

They are definitely a good car if they are clean & nice even though I prefer the 80s box model more.


iPhone

In general with GM

Buy:
-G body
-H body
-C Body
-Epsilon body
-S body (NUMMI platform shared with Toyota for the Geo Prizim and Toyota Camry)

Avoid:
U body (minivan platform)
W-Body (ie Chevy Luminas. They were built very poorly.)
GMT 330


Check for defects:
N-bodies
J-bodies

You forgot about the A, B, E, F, T and X bodies. If I were to venture a guess, I'd say buy for the B, E and F, avoid for the T and X, and check for defects for the A.

I've found the F Body cars have a lot of build quality issues no matter the generation.  But then again a Camaro and/or Firebird will always be desirable. 

The SBC/LS/LT are second to none when it comes to modifications and cheap reliable power. (I didn't get one myself because I simply prefer the sound of a turbocharged Toyota straight 6.) It's just everything else about the cars that are problematic

[RobbieL2415]

So under the buick line up from 90 2000 generation what do you guys think about them?

I think they are the last car to have that old school look on them but they are 100% cop stoppers now a days, I dont know how people looked at them back then.

They are definitely a good car if they are clean & nice even though I prefer the 80s box model more.


iPhone

In general with GM

Buy:
-G body
-H body
-C Body
-Epsilon body
-S body (NUMMI platform shared with Toyota for the Geo Prizim and Toyota Camry)

Avoid:
U body (minivan platform)
W-Body (ie Chevy Luminas. They were built very poorly.)
GMT 330


Check for defects:
N-bodies
J-bodies

You forgot about the A, B, E, F, T and X bodies. If I were to venture a guess, I'd say buy for the B, E and F, avoid for the T and X, and check for defects for the A.

I was only covering platforns in use from the 90s-early 2000s.

[Max Rockatansky]

So under the buick line up from 90 2000 generation what do you guys think about them?

I think they are the last car to have that old school look on them but they are 100% cop stoppers now a days, I dont know how people looked at them back then.

They are definitely a good car if they are clean & nice even though I prefer the 80s box model more.


iPhone

In general with GM

Buy:
-G body
-H body
-C Body
-Epsilon body
-S body (NUMMI platform shared with Toyota for the Geo Prizim and Toyota Camry)

Avoid:
U body (minivan platform)
W-Body (ie Chevy Luminas. They were built very poorly.)
GMT 330


Check for defects:
N-bodies
J-bodies

You forgot about the A, B, E, F, T and X bodies. If I were to venture a guess, I'd say buy for the B, E and F, avoid for the T and X, and check for defects for the A.

I've found the F Body cars have a lot of build quality issues no matter the generation.  But then again a Camaro and/or Firebird will always be desirable. 

The SBC/LS/LT are second to none when it comes to modifications and cheap reliable power. (I didn't get one myself because I simply prefer the sound of a turbocharged Toyota straight 6.) It's just everything else about the cars that are problematic

The powertrains across the entire 4th Generation F-Body Line were all really good.  I don't know too much about the problems the 3.4L 60 degree V6 had 93-95 though.  The 3.4L was replaced by the way more notable 3800 Series II relatively quickly. 

[Takumi]

All I know about the 3.4 is that it's a direct drop-in for the Fiero's 2.8. The 3800 is a good engine. I was planning to swap in a supercharged version into my Fiero, but I've moved away from that and am now planning an Ecotec forced-induction 4-banger. I know it's a bit odd going from a V6 to a 4 cylinder, but the 3800 requires a lot of fabrication work to fit, while the Ecotec can fit more easily and still has at least 200 HP in the lesser supercharged variant.

[bugo]

Holy shit you're right & then it goes to auction & sells for half the price.
Remember folks get a good luxury car from an auction or 3rd party seller for 80% the original price.

I would never buy a luxury car that wasn't under warranty. They are often complex and troublesome, and parts and labor, especially for German cars, is ridiculously expensive.

[bugo]

The powertrains across the entire 4th Generation F-Body Line were all really good.  I don't know too much about the problems the 3.4L 60 degree V6 had 93-95 though.  The 3.4L was replaced by the way more notable 3800 Series II relatively quickly. 

I drove a 1994 Firebird with a 3.4L engine and a 1999 with a 3.8 engine, both with automatics. The difference between the two was stark. The 3.4L car was slow, sluggish, lazy, gutless and not pleasant at all. The 3.8, in comparison, was powerful and responsive. It had good acceleration off the line and it also had a lot of passing power. Night and day. I drove the 1994 before I drove the 1999. I expected the 1999 to be slow like the 1994 but I was nicely surprised when I got on it. That Buick V6 was a good engine.

[Tonytone]

Holy shit you're right & then it goes to auction & sells for half the price.
Remember folks get a good luxury car from an auction or 3rd party seller for 80% the original price.

I would never buy a luxury car that wasn't under warranty. They are often complex and troublesome, and parts and labor, especially for German cars, is ridiculously expensive.

[/quote]
If you have a solid mechanic or know how to do the work yourself having a luxury car is easy to maintain or maintenance.

Auction & used cars are great ways to find deals for 60% less then what it originally went for.


iPhone

[bugo]

If you have a solid mechanic or know how to do the work yourself having a luxury car is easy to maintain or maintenance.

Parts for expensive cars are always expensive, even if you do the work yourself.

[Tonytone]

If you have a solid mechanic or know how to do the work yourself having a luxury car is easy to maintain or maintenance.

Parts for expensive cars are always expensive, even if you do the work yourself.

Of course they are especially OEM parts. But would you rather pay 100% or 50%?


iPhone

[Max Rockatansky]

The powertrains across the entire 4th Generation F-Body Line were all really good.  I don't know too much about the problems the 3.4L 60 degree V6 had 93-95 though.  The 3.4L was replaced by the way more notable 3800 Series II relatively quickly. 

I drove a 1994 Firebird with a 3.4L engine and a 1999 with a 3.8 engine, both with automatics. The difference between the two was stark. The 3.4L car was slow, sluggish, lazy, gutless and not pleasant at all. The 3.8, in comparison, was powerful and responsive. It had good acceleration off the line and it also had a lot of passing power. Night and day. I drove the 1994 before I drove the 1999. I expected the 1999 to be slow like the 1994 but I was nicely surprised when I got on it. That Buick V6 was a good engine.

Regarding the Buick 3.8L I was always pleasantly surprised how good that engine was even in latter natural aspirated years.  My sister had a Grand Prix with a 3.8 in it back when she was in college.  That thing was a lot of fun to drive and had some very adequate power.  I tried for years to find a GTP with the supercharged 3.8 on the cheap to no available.

[bugo]

Of course they are especially OEM parts. But would you rather pay 100% or 50%?

I would rather spend 5% of that amount on a part for a less expensive (and, likely, more reliable) car. I've heard some horror stories about 5 figure oil changes. Another disadvantage to owning a luxury car is that it's harder to get parts and service in certain places. You will probably be OK if you live in a.city and don't stray too far, but if you break down in Hays, Kansas or Deer Lodge, Montana you might have problems finding somebody to work on them.

I read an interview with a top Ferrari executive who said something like "A GM power window switch will work 1 million times. A Ferrari power window switch might only work 500 times, but the switch feels more expensive and is a delight to touch."

[Max Rockatansky]

Of course they are especially OEM parts. But would you rather pay 100% or 50%?

I would rather spend 5% of that amount on a part for a less expensive (and, likely, more reliable) car. I've heard some horror stories about 5 figure oil changes. Another disadvantage to owning a luxury car is that it's harder to get parts and service in certain places. You will probably be OK if you live in a.city and don't stray too far, but if you break down in Hays, Kansas or Deer Lodge, Montana you might have problems finding somebody to work on them.

I read an interview with a top Ferrari executive who said something like "A GM power window switch will work 1 million times. A Ferrari power window switch might only work 500 times, but the switch feels more expensive and is a delight to touch."

Ergo why cars like the Corvette and to a less extent the 911 to me are far more appealing to me.  Ferrari tends to be a luxury piece people secret away rather than drive.  It doesn't help you can't really work on a Ferrari without being independently wealthy. 

[J N Winkler]

With a luxury car, even one from a marque known for reliability, you also run the risk of esoteric components becoming long-term maintenance liabilities--for example, you can get a Lexus with pneumatic suspension.

[Max Rockatansky]

With a luxury car, even one from a marque known for reliability, you also run the risk of esoteric components becoming long-term maintenance liabilities--for example, you can get a Lexus with pneumatic suspension.

A couple years back one of my employees had an A4.  One of the headlights went out and the owners manual simply said to take it in for service.  Turns out said service cost about $400 dollars because it was a way overly complicated ordeal that involved taking out the air intake to remove the bulb.  He found the bulb needed at an Autozone and I helped him change it at the parking lot after work. 

[bugo]

I always admired supercars with ordinary engines. The De Tomaso Pantera is an Italian exotic that has a Ford 351 Cleveland V8 engine. American overhead valve engines are bone simple and easy to work on. It's an Italian sports car that I can work on. I imagine the rest of the car is a nightmare to work on and maintain, but the engine can be repaired by a novice.

[Ned Weasel]

I gotta comment and ask--

In general with GM

Buy:
-G body

I seriously miss my 1986 Pontiac Grand Prix Brougham with the V-8.  It took a ton of repairs to get it working properly back when I had it in the early 2000s, but once it was running well, it was amazing!  So, someone stole it, and it was never seen again by anyone I know.

-Epsilon body

Didn't this start in the early 2000s?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Epsilon_platform  Or is Wikipedia wrong?  My current ride is a 2009 Chevy Malibu.  It's boring, has underwhelming mid-range acceleration, and has a terrible turning radius, but it works.  It hasn't been immune to needing expensive repairs, though.

Avoid:
U body (minivan platform)

I loved the look of the first-generation "Dustbusters," and I thought the seating concept was quite clever.  It's too bad they were made so poorly, from what I hear.  The original Pontiac Trans Sport concept from the 80s was so stunningly sleek and futuristic, it's too bad they couldn't have made that and made it good and long-lasting.

W-Body (ie Chevy Luminas. They were built very poorly.)

My previous car was a 1999 Buick Century.  I loved it!  It was faster than most people would believe; I could easily change lanes on a busy freeway and jump from around 30 or 40 MPH to around 60 or 70 MPH almost instantaneously without even flooring it, which my 2009 Malibu doesn't seem to want to do.  And despite its length, it had a nice, tight turning radius that made every maneuver and U-turn I would ever need to make practically effortless, which was helped by the fact that the smooth steering allowed me to perform fast hand-over-hand action, which is another thing my Malibu doesn't like.  And the best part of all was the front bench seat, which let me just slide across to easily enter and exit from the passenger side when I was parked on the side of a busy street or somewhere where using the driver's side would be more difficult.  Most newer cars put the damn console with the big gear shift lever right on the middle, so you have to awkwardly climb over it and probably scuff up the dashboard with your feet if you want to use the passenger side for exit and entry.  The fold-down console and column shifter was always a superior interior design, at least for automatics--not sure about manuals, TBH.

But there was one serious problem with that car that I do not miss at all: the shitty power windows!  They failed several times over the course of my having that car.  When it was the motor, that just meant I couldn't use the window, but when it was the regulator, that meant the window wouldn't even stay up, so I had to get that one fixed, unless I wanted to just drive around with a plastic bag taped over it forever.  And I've seen other W-body cars from that generation with window problems, so I'm pretty sure it wasn't just mine.  The cost to replace those parts really added up: $300 or so for each regulator, $400 or so for each motor.  It ruined the experience of what was otherwise a very fun car.

[bugo]

I gotta comment and ask--

In general with GM

Buy:
-G body

I seriously miss my 1986 Pontiac Grand Prix Brougham with the V-8.  It took a ton of repairs to get it working properly back when I had it in the early 2000s, but once it was running well, it was amazing!  So, someone stole it, and it was never seen again by anyone I know.

Speaking of G bodies, we had a 1986 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme with a 307 and a 4 barrel carburetor that was a lovely car that was in beautiful condition and a delight to drive. But it was a gutless Cutlass. It had terrible acceleration. If I hadn't known better, I would have thought it was a V6. The 5.0L supposedly put out 140 horsepower, but the car didn't feel like it had more than 110 or 120. It only weighed about 3300 pounds, and 140 horsepower should be enough to make it at least peppy. But it was as slow as our 1978 Ford Mustang II fastback with a 2.8L V6 which had glacial acceleration. At least the 307 was smooth, unlike the standard V6 engine. The Mustang had dual exhaust with glasspacks and it was really, really loud. It was probably as loud as a Harley. V8 engines with glasspacks usually sound great, but the 171 V6 sounded awful. It had a whiny nasal drone to it that wasn't pleasant at all. You could hear the engine from several blocks away. I always knew when my dad drive over because I could hear the droney V6 which had an unmistakable sound. We also had a 1975 Mustang II with a 302/5.0 V8 that was a whole different beast. It was powerful and had pretty good acceleration for a 1975 car. When we had these Mustangs, I was 14 or 15 and had a driver's permit and I loved smoking the tires in that little Mustang. It had tiny 13" wheels on it and you could spin them on dry pavement as far as you wanted to. There were many black marks right outside our house. Now, I realize I was being a dick, but I thought it was so cool at the time. The last time I saw the '75, it was in a junkyard with the front suspension missing. Back in the day, Mustang II front suspension was used in a lot of hot rod style custom cars. It was a sad end to a fun car.

[Ned Weasel]

Speaking of G bodies, we had a 1986 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme with a 307 and a 4 barrel carburetor that was a lovely car that was in beautiful condition and a delight to drive. But it was a gutless Cutlass. It had terrible acceleration. If I hadn't known better, I would have thought it was a V6. The 5.0L supposedly put out 140 horsepower, but the car didn't feel like it had more than 110 or 120. It only weighed about 3300 pounds, and 140 horsepower should be enough to make it at least peppy. But it was as slow as our 1978 Ford Mustang II fastback with a 2.8L V6 which had glacial acceleration.

I think my '86 Grand Prix V8 was supposed to have 150 horsepower (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_Grand_Prix , see "Fourth Generation"), but I'm having a hard time finding the exact specs, and I don't have the same understanding of engine design that you seem to.  Mine wasn't slow, but I'm sure there were much faster cars around at the time, probably including the "2+2 Aero Coupe" and the Buick Grand National.  The funny thing about my '86 Grand Prix Brougham, however, was that the manual said to use regular unleaded (probably 87 octane), but I often had engine knocking and difficulty accelerating until I one day decided to switch to "super" unleaded (89 octane, I think), and it never had an acceleration problem again.

My '99 Buick Century with a V6 was at least as fast, however, ran fine on regular unleaded, and got better gas mileage, so at least that part of it was a better deal, but we're also talking about a 13-year difference.  It was probably what the "Regular Car Reviews" people would describe as "slow-car fast."

Edit: Found word omission typos, dang it!

[J N Winkler]

A couple years back one of my employees had an A4.  One of the headlights went out and the owners manual simply said to take it in for service.  Turns out said service cost about $400 dollars because it was a way overly complicated ordeal that involved taking out the air intake to remove the bulb.  He found the bulb needed at an Autozone and I helped him change it at the parking lot after work.

I have heard horror stories of lighting elements for headlamps (not just bulbs, but also HID components) that cannot be replaced without going through the front wheel well or taking off the bumper cover.

The complexity of modern air intake plumbing (which I have found to be especially true on Japanese cars; I have no experience with German ones) is part of the reason I do most of my own routine maintenance and get really nervous when I have to take a car to a shop for professional repair.  It tends to be pretty hit and miss whether all the small-diameter hoses are reconnected correctly, even with colored paint marks on the hose ends to help.

[bugo]

The Buick Grand National was far, far faster and more powerful than the Chevrolet Monte Carlo SS, the Pontiac Grand Prix 2+2 or the Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme 442. The GN had a blown V6, while the other G-bodies came with lopo V8s. The other three were made for just cruising around looking good. but the Buick was a real high performance car that had the heart of a race car. The 1987 Buick GNX was even faster and more powerful than the Grand National. The GNX is probably my favorite car of the 1980s.

[Tonytone]

With a luxury car, even one from a marque known for reliability, you also run the risk of esoteric components becoming long-term maintenance liabilities--for example, you can get a Lexus with pneumatic suspension.

A couple years back one of my employees had an A4.  One of the headlights went out and the owners manual simply said to take it in for service.  Turns out said service cost about $400 dollars because it was a way overly complicated ordeal that involved taking out the air intake to remove the bulb.  He found the bulb needed at an Autozone and I helped him change it at the parking lot after work.

I notice it depends on the type of vehicle you have & how easy or complex it is to change the lightbulb no matter what brand or luxury it is.

However we cannot lie & say we dont feel the difference when buy a luxury car compared to a non luxury car, even though many low end cars are now very luxury on the inside. The engine & materials used can be noticed as sub par or of low quality.

Drive a benz & then after drive a ford. Youll notice a difference.


iPhone

[D-Dey65]

I recently saw an old Ford commercial on YouTube for the late-1970's LTD, and they were comparing it to the Rolls-Royce insisting it was almost as quite as a Rolls. Somebody posted a comment saying the Ford was the quieter car.

[D-Dey65]

Grandpa cars, especially the Roadmaster.  It's a shame too since the B Body was a great platform to build a sleeper car on.  A lot of Caprices have been tarted out to Impala SS replicas.   

So have Buick Roadmasters and Olds Custom Cruisers, sadly.