Have an idea for splitting/merging counties, cities or towns? Post them here.
Specific ideas:
1) Split Cook County, Illinois into three areas. One would be a standalone city/county consisting of exactly the city limits of Chicago (a la Indianapolis, Nashville, etc.). The other two would be the rest of the county, split roughly by North Avenue, with the entirety of Melrose Park with the southern part and the entirety of North lake with the northern part. (Yes, the northern county would have three disconnected segments.)
Rationale: Chicago is plenty large enough to not need separate city and county governments, and the current county government has too much power as it is.
2) Reconfigure Clark and Floyd counties, including a merger of Jeffersonville, Clarksville and New Albany. Specifically, all of Jeffersonville Township, the parts of Utica and Silver Creek townships that are currently part of Jeffersonville or Clarksville, and all of New Albany township become part of a reorganized Clark county and the new city of Falls City. The rest of both counties become part of the reorganized Floyd County.
Rationale: Individually, none of Jeffersonville, Clarksville or New Albany is over 50,000, but the merged city would be over 100,000 and be much more recognizable statewide.
General ideas:
3) In states like Indiana, where Townships are holdovers from the days when it took too long to get to the county seat by horse, they are now essentially a worthless level of government that wastes tax dollars. Get rid of them. I understand that in many states, Townships serve more of a purpose so I'm not advocating it in those cases.
4) Any county that both has a population < 50,000 and a size of < 500 square miles should merge with another county. There is a redundancy in county level services and a waste of tax dollars.
Split northern San Bernardino County into Needles County or maybe Mojave County? I would probably CA 58, I-15 CA 247 and CA 62 as the rough boundary for the new county. I would possibly put the communities in San Bernardino County along CA 62 into Riverside County or add another county based around Coachella Valley.
It has been discussed in the Lake Tahoe area. Washoe County, Carson City and Douglas County all touch the lake and have valley areas, separated by a ridge which varies from about 7100 feet to over 10,000 feet elevation. There's no real commonality between lake and valley sections, either economically or sociologically. So the lake portions have proposed secession and merger as a single "Lake Tahoe County" in Nevada.
It's not a realistic proposal because a lot of visitor tax money flows over that ridge from the lake down into the valley, and the valley sections are much more populous and would never give up that source of revenue.
Quote4) Any county that both has a population < 50,000 and a size of < 500 square miles should merge with another county. There is a redundancy in county level services and a waste of tax dollars.
We do this to some extent with certain services that are pooled among several Nevada counties. For example, Carson City Health and Human Services (think restaurant inspections in particular but they played a big role in the Covid response) serves not just Carson City but also Storey, Lyon and Douglas counties.
Split Fulton County GA into 3 counties. It has 3 distinct different purposes.
The counties of So Cal would probably be much different if they were designed to make more sense. The desert regions are all quite different from the coastal communities which are different from the agriculture communities. The Inland Empire is different from all the above.
Riverside (where I live) should be divided into three counties; everything west of the Badlands, San Gorgonio Pass and Coachella Valley, and everything from Chiriaco Summit east. The first two would be their own counties, while the east end would be combined with Imperial County. Imperial County would add the eastern parts of both Riverside and San Bernardino Counties so the entire Colorado River Basin would be in one county. The Mojave Desert parts of San Bernardino and LA Counties (essentially everything north of the San Gabriel and San Bernardino Mountains) would be a new county which might also include the bit of Kern County SE of the Tehachapi Mountains. The area around Yucca Valley-Joshua Tree could pick which of the three surrounding counties (its current county of San Bernardino or one of two new counties which I'll dub Coachella and Mojave) or possibly yet another new county (Joshua Tree with a county seat at Yucca Valley). The expanded Imperial County might also want to split at the Colorado Basin and Salton Sea Basin line; I'll call that county Colorado County. Not sure where the new county seats might be, possibly Indio (Coachella as there are already some county government branch offices there), Barstow (Mojave), and Blythe (Colorado).
Agree on the California changes. At least split them along the NWS county warning area boundaries, in order to make easier for me to find them. Pinal County, Arizona and Cayuga County, New York would also need to be split so that my 122 state plan can happen :evilgrin:.
Here is my plan to merge all of the counties in Oklahoma with a population of under 10,000. This results in 58 counties, down from the current 77. I think this is needed.
(https://i.imgur.com/UKDwr3R.png)
For deciding which county goes where, the main consideration was where the people in that county are probably doing their business now. For names, I just picked the one I like the best (although Greer won out over Kiowa and Harmon because historically much of that region was part of Greer County). The vast majority of changes are in the western half of the state; the only ones in the east are folding Coal into Atoka, Latimer into Pittsburg (and keeping Latimer as the name because we don't need a misspelled reference to Pittsburgh PA as a county name), and Nowata into Washington.
Divide King County, WA, into three sections: Seattle, East, and South. Shoreline can either go with Seattle or go to Snohomish County. Skykomish and the US 2 corridor around it also goes to Snohomish County, since it's not road-accessible from within King County.
Also, Camano Island moves from Island County to Snohomish County, because all access there except by private boat is from Snohomish County.
Finally, Jefferson County gets split along the crest of the Olympic Mountains, since there's absolutely no way except hiking trails to get from one part to the other. The west (and much less-populous) section of the county can pick whether to join Clallam County (to the north) or Mason County (to the south).
Consolidated some small counties in Washington, purely for aesthetics:
(https://i.imgur.com/TUuDjzu.png)
Wahkiakum - Absorbed into Pacific County
Island - Split between Jefferson (Whidbey) and Snohomish (Camano) counties
Jefferson - Western portion absorbed into Grays Harbor County
Skamania - Split between Cowlitz and Clark counties
Columbia - Absorbed into Garfield County
Ferry - Absorbed into Okanogan County (might split to give the Colville Reservation its own county-equivalent entity)
Stevens - Absorbed into Pend Oreille County
I'll come up with a more serious proposal later, once I have time to give some new counties some proper names. For starters, all counties named for slaveholders would have to be renamed.
Could swear I had posted this on here somewhere, but I guess not. This is my grand plan for Utah, which results in 39 counties - up from the current 29:
(https://i.imgur.com/4MkivTs.png)
A lot of the changes on here are to adjust county lines to explicitly follow watershed drainage divides. Many of the existing northern Utah county lines do this already, but a lot of others across the state are kind of assumed to be along those divides but aren't. Most of the other changes are generally to split up extremely large counties into more manageable sizes, especially if there's population centers far from each other in them, and to bring back several counties that used to exist but were abolished by the Utah territorial legislature back in 1862. Also trying to minimize instances where parts of counties aren't accessible by road without dipping into other counties.
Is a Shambip when you are led to believe something is going to bip, but it reality it is ruined, meaning it pibs instead?
One thought I had: if the Town of Irondequoit (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Irondequoit,+NY/@43.2127163,-77.6073923,13z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x89d6b622de4d4ab9:0x1c36191cdd69d220!8m2!3d43.2133955!4d-77.5797226!5m1!1e1) merged with the City of Rochester, it would give the city a much more organic shape, and it would seem more like a true Great Lakes city instead of an inland city with a tiny strip connecting it to the lake. It would also add 51,043 to Rochester's population and bump it back to its rightful place as the 3rd largest city in NY, at least for another census or two.
Looking at my metro (KC area): how about the small inner-ring suburbs in northeast Johnson County (Westwood, Westwood Hills, Fairway, Mission Hills, Roeland Park) be absorbed into Mission?
Or, to take it a step further: all those aforementioned cities, along with Mission, Prairie Village, and Leawood, are absorbed into Overland Park. Merriam would be divided between Overland Park to the east of I-35 and Shawnee to the west - thus, JOCO is down to OP, Lenexa, Shawnee, and Olathe. I suppose Lenexa and Shawnee merge at some point as well, given their combined population is about 125K, compared to 139K for Olathe and 193K for Overland Park - although keep in mind those are based on figures for the current cities, and don't include all the territory that would be annexed. But I'm just trying to give you the picture.
Quote from: KCRoadFan on October 05, 2022, 11:19:38 PM
Looking at my metro (KC area): how about the small inner-ring suburbs in northeast Johnson County (Westwood, Westwood Hills, Fairway, Mission Hills, Roeland Park) be absorbed into Mission?
Or, to take it a step further: all those aforementioned cities, along with Mission, Prairie Village, and Leawood, are absorbed into Overland Park. Merriam would be divided between Overland Park to the east of I-35 and Shawnee to the west - thus, JOCO is down to OP, Lenexa, Shawnee, and Olathe. I suppose Lenexa and Shawnee merge at some point as well, given their combined population is about 125K, compared to 139K for Olathe and 193K for Overland Park - although keep in mind those are based on figures for the current cities, and don't include all the territory that would be annexed. But I'm just trying to give you the picture.
You're gonna merge all that stuff, and
not name after it the mythical (but strangely elusive in actual reality) "Shawnee Mission, KS"?
Massachusetts...
Move Ashby and Townsend from Middlesex to Worcester county to remove the odd overhang over Worcester County. They align more with Worcester County anyway.
I've always wondered what Delaware would look like with New England-style towns, but I can't do it myself since I don't know much about Delaware.
I don't have a fancy map to show, but I would merge the following pairs of counties in Indiana:
Switzerland and Ohio
Fayette and Union
Warren and Benton
Daviess and Martin
Crawford and Perry
Blackford and Jay
I like the idea of rounding Illinois off to an even 100 counties =)
That would require two mergers, as Illinois currently has 102 counties. I would nominate some of the smallest counties to get absorbed into another county. Marshall can absorb Putnam, Hardin can merge with Gallatin or Pope. Maybe Stark can get appended to another county?
I'll be amazed if I'm the only one who thinks of splitting Kossuth County, Iowa in two. It takes up two spots on the apparent grid formed by the counties of upstate Iowa. Plus, that takes Iowa's county total from 99 to an even 100.
Quote from: paulthemapguy on October 06, 2022, 04:01:52 PM
I like the idea of rounding Illinois off to an even 100 counties =)
That would require two mergers, as Illinois currently has 100 counties. I would nominate some of the smallest counties to get absorbed into another county. Marshall can absorb Putnam, Hardin can merge with Gallatin or Pope. Maybe Stark can get appended to another county?
I'll be amazed if I'm the only one who thinks of splitting Kossuth County, Iowa in two. It takes up two spots on the apparent grid formed by the counties of upstate Iowa. Plus, that takes Iowa's county total from 99 to an even 100.
You have a typo there. Illinois currently has 102 counties.
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 05, 2022, 06:35:33 PM
Here is my plan to merge all of the counties in Oklahoma with a population of under 10,000. This results in 58 counties, down from the current 77. I think this is needed.
(https://i.imgur.com/UKDwr3R.png)
For deciding which county goes where, the main consideration was where the people in that county are probably doing their business now. For names, I just picked the one I like the best (although Greer won out over Kiowa and Harmon because historically much of that region was part of Greer County). The vast majority of changes are in the western half of the state; the only ones in the east are folding Coal into Atoka, Latimer into Pittsburg (and keeping Latimer as the name because we don't need a misspelled reference to Pittsburgh PA as a county name), and Nowata into Washington.
I was disappointed in the cleanliness of Craig County on this map.
Quote from: SectorZ on October 06, 2022, 06:24:59 PM
I was disappointed in the cleanliness of Craig County on this map.
Blame the mob-rule people, not me :P
(At one point, I actually had the font the mob-rule maps used, and could therefore make fake mob-rule style maps at my leisure. Unfortunately, it seems to have gone missing from my system, and I don't remember the exact name of it to track it down again.)
All the cities in Pulaski County, AR should merge into Little Rock to reflect the size and influence of what the Little Rock area actually is, but it will never happen because of politics.
For that matter, some of the cities in NWA should merge as well. As fast as the region's growing, I still think it's held back by the absence of a single dominant city. Fayetteville grew more than I expected in the last census but it's still largely landlocked by Springdale, Johnson, Farmington, Elkins, Greenland and the mountains to the south, although there seems to be a decent corridor to the west toward Wedington and Siloam Springs open.
Springdale has more room to expand and will most likely be the second-largest city in the state by the 2030 census, but it too will eventually be hemmed-in by other cities and Beaver Lake.
Merge Baltimore city back into Baltimore County
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on October 05, 2022, 05:23:20 PM
Agree on the California changes. At least split them along the NWS county warning area boundaries, in order to make easier for me to find them. Pinal County, Arizona and Cayuga County, New York would also need to be split so that my 122 state plan can happen :evilgrin:.
And Monroe County, Florida. Didn't remember the mainland section isn't in the same county warning area as the Keys.
Quote from: SectorZ on October 06, 2022, 06:24:59 PM
I was disappointed in the cleanliness of Craig County on this map.
It's correct ever since the c
raIG c
oun
ty sign was replaced.
Quote from: paulthemapguy on October 06, 2022, 04:01:52 PM
I like the idea of rounding Illinois off to an even 100 counties =)
That would require two mergers, as Illinois currently has 100 counties. I would nominate some of the smallest counties to get absorbed into another county. Marshall can absorb Putnam, Hardin can merge with Gallatin or Pope. Maybe Stark can get appended to another county?
I'll be amazed if I'm the only one who thinks of splitting Kossuth County, Iowa in two. It takes up two spots on the apparent grid formed by the counties of upstate Iowa. Plus, that takes Iowa's county total from 99 to an even 100.
At two different points in Iowa history, it was its own county. It was Bancroft County in the 1850's and Crocker County after the Civil War. Much of it is swampland unsuitable for farming, which is why it got merged into Kossuth County.
https://who13.com/news/what-ever-happened-to-iowas-100th-county/
I'm frankly surprised St. Louis County in Minnesota is allowed to be as big as it is. Basically, the Iron Range cities and everything north of there should be one county separate from Duluth and the southern quarter of the county.
As for another state I used to live in, I remember an article in the Omaha World Herald which suggested Nebraska should be reduced from 93 to 28 counties. I have been unable to find it anywhere, but I don't see why Nebraska needs 93 counties.
I think that all buggest cities should be independent from their counties.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 11, 2022, 05:10:04 AM
I think that all buggest cities should be independent from their counties.
Are you with the pest control lobby?
Quote from: Bruce on October 11, 2022, 05:29:59 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 11, 2022, 05:10:04 AM
I think that all buggest cities should be independent from their counties.
Are you with the pest control lobby?
He has a point, the people out in the county would probably like to be separate from a city with a lot of bugs.
Quote from: DandyDan on October 11, 2022, 04:38:41 AM
I'm frankly surprised St. Louis County in Minnesota is allowed to be as big as it is.
Used to be smaller. Shortly after statehood, what is now northern St. Louis County was part of a much larger Itasca County.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on October 11, 2022, 07:35:24 AM
Quote from: Bruce on October 11, 2022, 05:29:59 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 11, 2022, 05:10:04 AM
I think that all buggest cities should be independent from their counties.
Are you with the pest control lobby?
He has a point, the people out in the county would probably like to be separate from a city with a lot of bugs.
I meant "biggest".
In that case, probably a bad idea. Suburbs do have a stake in some city affairs and without true regional governments like those in other countries, it's best to just leave it to counties. Patchwork cities have a hard time coordinating with each other, but as a county with a large city helping manage things they're able to pool resources more effectively.
Things like large parks and reserves, libraries, public transit, and utilities are better when provided collectively.
Give Brookline to Middlesex counties and give Cohasset to Plymouth County to make the maps look less terrible. Also split up Maricopa County, it's too big.
Quote from: froggie on October 11, 2022, 09:09:37 AM
Quote from: DandyDan on October 11, 2022, 04:38:41 AM
I'm frankly surprised St. Louis County in Minnesota is allowed to be as big as it is.
Used to be smaller. Shortly after statehood, what is now northern St. Louis County was part of a much larger Itasca County.
As the Range and Duluth have increasingly diverted politically and economically there have been various proposals over the years to consider splitting the county into north/south portions, but the Duluth-based officials holding the majority of the county government have blocked this idea. The Range does host an array of redundant county facilities as it is.
About 20 years ago, someone on m.t.r had a website that proposed numerous county changes. Some of them were similar to the ideas in this thread. I think even the Kossuth County split in Iowa was included.
I'm in a county that isn't that big in area, but I've always felt that the county is such a big political mess that we might want to look at splitting it. Maybe we can call the newly formed county Shambip County, because its bipping is a sham.
Kossuth County has actually been split before. The county line was exactly where you'd expect it to be. The county to the north of Kossuth was called Bancroft County, and only existed for six years before being merged into Kossuth. Apparently Bancroft County is full of wetlands unsuitable for farming, so it never attracted enough farmers to make it a viable county, and was folded into Kossuth. They tried it again later, this time under the name Crocker County, but this time it ran afoul of some Iowa law that mandated the minimum area of a county. As a result, after a year, it was merged again, this time for good.
Some too small cities should be consolidated with county, such as Miami, which would then comprise entire Miami-Dade County.
Many cities should merge with their counties and sometimes also with neighboring counties, creating cities reaching 60 miles (~100 km) out of downtown. Such as Fargo, ND, which would comprise entire Cass County and include many rural areas. Cities should also enclose other cities, towns and villages.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 21, 2022, 09:48:43 AM
Many cities should merge with their counties and sometimes also with neighboring counties, creating cities reaching 60 miles (~100 km) out of downtown. Such as Fargo, ND, which would comprise entire Cass County and include many rural areas. Cities should also enclose other cities, towns and villages.
Cass County has a crapload of little cities and towns outside of Fargo and a lot of nothing between them and Fargo. I can't see Grandin or Leonard being too happy about that.
I don't think you quite understand the logistical nightmares that a lot of your "grand plans" would likely result in.
I have some crazy ideas for California
1. Make Los Angeles be a city/county consolidation,2. Make Sacramento County, CA a city county consolidation.3. Make Vallejo and Benicia be part of Napa County
4. Make Dixon, Vacaville be part of Yolo County and Rio Vista part of Sacramento county.
Yes all are Troll statements. No way they are going to happen in real life.
Quote from: bing101 on October 21, 2022, 05:39:13 PM
I have some crazy ideas for California
[...]
Yes all are Troll statements. No way they are going to happen in real life.
And you didn't go with a San Bernardino city/county consolidation? You miss 100% of the shots you do not take.
a NYC-Nassau County merger? Ditto a NYC-Westchester County merger?
:wow:
Mike
Quote from: KCRoadFan on October 05, 2022, 11:19:38 PM
Looking at my metro (KC area): how about the small inner-ring suburbs in northeast Johnson County (Westwood, Westwood Hills, Fairway, Mission Hills, Roeland Park) be absorbed into Mission?
Or, to take it a step further: all those aforementioned cities, along with Mission, Prairie Village, and Leawood, are absorbed into Overland Park. Merriam would be divided between Overland Park to the east of I-35 and Shawnee to the west - thus, JOCO is down to OP, Lenexa, Shawnee, and Olathe. I suppose Lenexa and Shawnee merge at some point as well, given their combined population is about 125K, compared to 139K for Olathe and 193K for Overland Park - although keep in mind those are based on figures for the current cities, and don't include all the territory that would be annexed. But I'm just trying to give you the picture.
JOCO also has Gardner, De Soto, Edgerton, and parts of Spring Hill, Bonner Springs, and Lake Quivira. But anyway--
Not like this would realistically happen, but--
I'd take your Mega Overland Park idea one step further and have it absorb Kansas City, Kansas. Cities cross county lines all the time as it is, so why not? I wonder if a name change would be in order after the mega-merger, though. Kansas Overland City? Kansas City Park? Springfield? (There is no Springfield, Kansas.) Mall Center? Quindaro?
And then you might as well merge Wyandotte County with either Johnson or Leavenworth County. Leavenworth County makes more sense geographically, and it would keep the counties' populations more balanced. But Johnson County has more money, so there's that to consider.
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 21, 2022, 09:31:52 PM
Quote from: bing101 on October 21, 2022, 05:39:13 PM
I have some crazy ideas for California
[...]
Yes all are Troll statements. No way they are going to happen in real life.
And you didn't go with a San Bernardino city/county consolidation? You miss 100% of the shots you do not take.
Good point I was also considering the San Jose City consolidation with Santa Clara County.
Quote from: Ned Weasel on October 22, 2022, 05:39:23 PM
Quote from: KCRoadFan on October 05, 2022, 11:19:38 PM
Looking at my metro (KC area): how about the small inner-ring suburbs in northeast Johnson County (Westwood, Westwood Hills, Fairway, Mission Hills, Roeland Park) be absorbed into Mission?
Or, to take it a step further: all those aforementioned cities, along with Mission, Prairie Village, and Leawood, are absorbed into Overland Park. Merriam would be divided between Overland Park to the east of I-35 and Shawnee to the west - thus, JOCO is down to OP, Lenexa, Shawnee, and Olathe. I suppose Lenexa and Shawnee merge at some point as well, given their combined population is about 125K, compared to 139K for Olathe and 193K for Overland Park - although keep in mind those are based on figures for the current cities, and don't include all the territory that would be annexed. But I'm just trying to give you the picture.
JOCO also has Gardner, De Soto, Edgerton, and parts of Spring Hill, Bonner Springs, and Lake Quivira. But anyway--
Not like this would realistically happen, but--
I'd take your Mega Overland Park idea one step further and have it absorb Kansas City, Kansas. Cities cross county lines all the time as it is, so why not? I wonder if a name change would be in order after the mega-merger, though. Kansas Overland City? Kansas City Park? Springfield? (There is no Springfield, Kansas.) Mall Center? Quindaro?
And then you might as well merge Wyandotte County with either Johnson or Leavenworth County. Leavenworth County makes more sense geographically, and it would keep the counties' populations more balanced. But Johnson County has more money, so there's that to consider.
I have some city names for merged cities. These have never been used and these are cool:
Slackcarrot
Unsplash City
Wikipedia Hills
Mezenton
Hugging Charles
Quote from: Road Hog on October 06, 2022, 11:52:50 PM
All the cities in Pulaski County, AR should merge into Little Rock to reflect the size and influence of what the Little Rock area actually is, but it will never happen because of politics.
For that matter, some of the cities in NWA should merge as well. As fast as the region's growing, I still think it's held back by the absence of a single dominant city. Fayetteville grew more than I expected in the last census but it's still largely landlocked by Springdale, Johnson, Farmington, Elkins, Greenland and the mountains to the south, although there seems to be a decent corridor to the west toward Wedington and Siloam Springs open.
Springdale has more room to expand and will most likely be the second-largest city in the state by the 2030 census, but it too will eventually be hemmed-in by other cities and Beaver Lake.
Pulaski County could then be changed into City and County of Little Rock.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 23, 2022, 02:43:53 PM
Quote from: Ned Weasel on October 22, 2022, 05:39:23 PM
Quote from: KCRoadFan on October 05, 2022, 11:19:38 PM
Looking at my metro (KC area): how about the small inner-ring suburbs in northeast Johnson County (Westwood, Westwood Hills, Fairway, Mission Hills, Roeland Park) be absorbed into Mission?
Or, to take it a step further: all those aforementioned cities, along with Mission, Prairie Village, and Leawood, are absorbed into Overland Park. Merriam would be divided between Overland Park to the east of I-35 and Shawnee to the west - thus, JOCO is down to OP, Lenexa, Shawnee, and Olathe. I suppose Lenexa and Shawnee merge at some point as well, given their combined population is about 125K, compared to 139K for Olathe and 193K for Overland Park - although keep in mind those are based on figures for the current cities, and don't include all the territory that would be annexed. But I'm just trying to give you the picture.
JOCO also has Gardner, De Soto, Edgerton, and parts of Spring Hill, Bonner Springs, and Lake Quivira. But anyway--
Not like this would realistically happen, but--
I'd take your Mega Overland Park idea one step further and have it absorb Kansas City, Kansas. Cities cross county lines all the time as it is, so why not? I wonder if a name change would be in order after the mega-merger, though. Kansas Overland City? Kansas City Park? Springfield? (There is no Springfield, Kansas.) Mall Center? Quindaro?
And then you might as well merge Wyandotte County with either Johnson or Leavenworth County. Leavenworth County makes more sense geographically, and it would keep the counties' populations more balanced. But Johnson County has more money, so there's that to consider.
I have some city names for merged cities. These have never been used and these are cool:
Slackcarrot
Unsplash City
Wikipedia Hills
Mezenton
Hugging Charles
I still think Shambip is better.
When I lived in Union County, NJ; I always thought Fanwood and Scotch Plains should merge. Ditto with Linden and Winfield Park.
In Middlesex County, NJ both Metuchen and Edison should merge.
Woodbridge should be broken into Avenel/ Colonia/ Iselin and then Woodbridge, Sewaren, and Port Reading should be another part while Fords, Hopelawn, Keasbey, and the part of Raritan Center in Woodbridge another township.
In Florida Polk needs dividing where you have East Polk and West Polk with line between Auburndale and Winter Haven and continue southward and northward where Polk City would be in west as well as Lakeland, Bartow, Auburndale, And Polk City being West Polk while all other cities along US 27 and Winter Haven be East Polk.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 23, 2022, 02:43:53 PM
I have some city names for merged cities. These have never been used and these are cool:
Slackcarrot
Unsplash City
Wikipedia Hills
Mezenton
Hugging Charles
I feel like New Mexico, or one of the other Western states that sign exits with no destinations, should use these on those exits.
Quote from: Ned Weasel on October 22, 2022, 05:39:23 PM
Quote from: KCRoadFan on October 05, 2022, 11:19:38 PM
Looking at my metro (KC area): how about the small inner-ring suburbs in northeast Johnson County (Westwood, Westwood Hills, Fairway, Mission Hills, Roeland Park) be absorbed into Mission?
Or, to take it a step further: all those aforementioned cities, along with Mission, Prairie Village, and Leawood, are absorbed into Overland Park. Merriam would be divided between Overland Park to the east of I-35 and Shawnee to the west - thus, JOCO is down to OP, Lenexa, Shawnee, and Olathe. I suppose Lenexa and Shawnee merge at some point as well, given their combined population is about 125K, compared to 139K for Olathe and 193K for Overland Park - although keep in mind those are based on figures for the current cities, and don't include all the territory that would be annexed. But I'm just trying to give you the picture.
JOCO also has Gardner, De Soto, Edgerton, and parts of Spring Hill, Bonner Springs, and Lake Quivira. But anyway--
Not like this would realistically happen, but--
I'd take your Mega Overland Park idea one step further and have it absorb Kansas City, Kansas. Cities cross county lines all the time as it is, so why not? I wonder if a name change would be in order after the mega-merger, though. Kansas Overland City? Kansas City Park? Springfield? (There is no Springfield, Kansas.) Mall Center? Quindaro?
And then you might as well merge Wyandotte County with either Johnson or Leavenworth County. Leavenworth County makes more sense geographically, and it would keep the counties' populations more balanced. But Johnson County has more money, so there's that to consider.
Then Wyandotte and Johnson Counties should merge to City and County of Kansas City-Overland Park.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 28, 2022, 10:11:53 AM
Then Wyandotte and Johnson Counties should merge to City and County of Kansas City-Overland Park.
This would be utterly impossible. The two are so socioeconomically different, there would be no way they could be combined as a single entity. Nor would they want to be–because of the economic differences, Wyandotte and Johnson counties sort of hate each other. Wyandotte views Johnson as an overpriced wasteland of rich, vapid cookie-cutter suburbs; Johnson views Wyandotte as a terrifying, dangerous, crime-ridden hellhole. Neither of these stereotypes are entirely true, but it does mean that a combined entity would, at best, serve the two areas worse, and at worst, be entirely ungovernable.
Quote from: US 89 on October 21, 2022, 10:05:05 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 21, 2022, 09:48:43 AM
Many cities should merge with their counties and sometimes also with neighboring counties, creating cities reaching 60 miles (~100 km) out of downtown. Such as Fargo, ND, which would comprise entire Cass County and include many rural areas. Cities should also enclose other cities, towns and villages.
Cass County has a crapload of little cities and towns outside of Fargo and a lot of nothing between them and Fargo. I can't see Grandin or Leonard being too happy about that.
I don't think you quite understand the logistic[size=78%]al nightmares that a lot of your "grand plans" would likely result in.[/size]
Random changes:
- Tulsa County becomes City and County of Tulsa. All other cities, towns and unincorporated areas in Tulsa County are absorbed into Tulsa, except Broken Arrow, which becomes its own City and County of Broken Arrow. Also, a portion of Tulsa that lies in Osage County is transferred to City and County of Tulsa. But a portion of Tulsa that lies in Wagoner County is transferred to a new city of East Tulsa, which lies in Wagoner County and is a newly-built planned community.
- Franklin County, OH becomes City and County of Columbus. All other cities, towns and unincorporated areas in Franklin County are absorbed into Columbus.
You can't change the boundaries of Osage County because all of Osage County is the territory of the Osage tribe.
Also, a planned community being successful in Oklahoma is...well, I give it a 3% chance it would work. Oklahomans are not the sort of people who take kindly to dictates from a central authority.
Merged counties could also get other names than a name of one of the merged counties. The following would be good:
Rolf County
Booger Queen County
Otter County
Virginia County
Mezen County
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 28, 2022, 10:44:13 AM
You can't change the boundaries of Osage County because all of Osage County is the territory of the Osage tribe.
Also, a planned community being successful in Oklahoma is...well, I give it a 3% chance it would work. Oklahomans are not the sort of people who take kindly to dictates from a central authority.
Why then there is a suburb inside Indian reservation in Osage County, part of Tulsa?
Quote from: bing101 on October 22, 2022, 06:43:18 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 21, 2022, 09:31:52 PM
Quote from: bing101 on October 21, 2022, 05:39:13 PM
I have some crazy ideas for California
[...]
Yes all are Troll statements. No way they are going to happen in real life.
And you didn't go with a San Bernardino city/county consolidation? You miss 100% of the shots you do not take.
Good point I was also considering the San Jose City consolidation with Santa Clara County.
This idea was actually floated (and quickly rejected) in the 1960s, when San Jose was undergoing its annexation binge.
Here's my quick-and-dirty map of the California changes I have thought about:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52461139539_5ba3fa5210_k.jpg)
Mostly it's about county consolidation, combining low-population, largely rural counties. Not a lot of boundary shifting or splitting of counties, except:
-splitting Solano County between Yolo and Sonoma Counties;
-splitting Placer County, giving the Sacramento suburbs to Sacramento County;
-splitting San Mateo County between San Francisco and Santa Clara Counties;
-moving north Santa Barbara County to San Luis Obispo County;
-splitting Ventura County between Los Angeles and Santa Barbara Counties;
-combining the urban core of San Bernardino and Riverside Counties; and
-re-assigning much of the eastern/southeastern desert portions.
I would have assigned the eastern portions of Fresno and Tulare to Tuolumne or Mono, but good road connections don't really exist to make that feasible.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 28, 2022, 10:48:32 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 28, 2022, 10:44:13 AM
You can't change the boundaries of Osage County because all of Osage County is the territory of the Osage tribe.
Also, a planned community being successful in Oklahoma is...well, I give it a 3% chance it would work. Oklahomans are not the sort of people who take kindly to dictates from a central authority.
Why then there is a suburb inside Indian reservation in Osage County, part of Tulsa?
It's Complicated™. Many very large books have been written on the minute details of how tribal jurisdiction works in Oklahoma. And then what we thought we knew got upended by
McGirt v. Oklahoma (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGirt_v._Oklahoma) in 2020. So basically, nobody knows what's going on at this point, least of all the Oklahoma government.
I can envision a LOT of metro-wide municipal amalgamations happening well after everyone who is alive and aware now is long gone and forgotten, as in the 2080s, 2120s and so forth instead of the 2020s. Our deep descendants will be seeing these lines on local metro maps that were drawn by the WWII Veterans, 'Boomers', Xers, (etc) and start seriously wondering 'why were they drawn in such illogical and bad ways? They will then start taking action to correct them.
Mike
Jade City would also be a cool city name. As well as Jade County.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 29, 2022, 02:26:30 PM
Jade City would also be a cool city name. As well as Jade County.
About 20 years or so ago my hometown City of Appleton, WI made a street improvement that caused a neighborhood street on the city's southeast side to become severed from the rest of the street that it was a part of (S Kensington Dr), so the city's Planning and Public Works guys polled the neighbors for ideas for new names for that discontiguous section of street. The Neighbors settled on 'S Jade Dr'.
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on October 22, 2022, 11:56:14 AM
a NYC-Nassau County merger? Ditto a NYC-Westchester County merger?
:wow:
Mike
Westchester County might as well annex lower Fairfield County, CT, as I consider that to be part of NY state anyway (Greenwich, Darien, Stamford, New Canaan, Norwalk, Westport, Wilton, Redding, Weston, and Easton). Or at least split Fairfield County and create Danbury County from the Greater Danbury area, plus a couple of towns in upper New Haven County (Southbury), and lower Litchfield County (New Milford, Roxbury, Bridgewater, Woodbury).
Similar city names in same area, such as all cities beginning with same letter, city names in alphabetical order or all cities having same suffix would be cool. City names would also use some unusual and exotic prefixes and suffixes, such as -soutten/Soutten- (Souttencourt, Courtsoutten, Alanasoutten) Mezen- (named by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mezen_(river) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mezen_(river))) (Mezencourt, Mezenthorpe, Mezensoutten, Mezenleaker, Mezenton etc.) and Hogwarts.
What about a city named Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch?
Quote from: DTComposer on October 28, 2022, 02:44:45 PM
Quote from: bing101 on October 22, 2022, 06:43:18 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 21, 2022, 09:31:52 PM
Quote from: bing101 on October 21, 2022, 05:39:13 PM
I have some crazy ideas for California
[...]
Yes all are Troll statements. No way they are going to happen in real life.
And you didn't go with a San Bernardino city/county consolidation? You miss 100% of the shots you do not take.
Good point I was also considering the San Jose City consolidation with Santa Clara County.
This idea was actually floated (and quickly rejected) in the 1960s, when San Jose was undergoing its annexation binge.
Here's my quick-and-dirty map of the California changes I have thought about:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52461139539_5ba3fa5210_k.jpg)
Mostly it's about county consolidation, combining low-population, largely rural counties. Not a lot of boundary shifting or splitting of counties, except:
-splitting Solano County between Yolo and Sonoma Counties;
-splitting Placer County, giving the Sacramento suburbs to Sacramento County;
-splitting San Mateo County between San Francisco and Santa Clara Counties;
-moving north Santa Barbara County to San Luis Obispo County;
-splitting Ventura County between Los Angeles and Santa Barbara Counties;
-combining the urban core of San Bernardino and Riverside Counties; and
-re-assigning much of the eastern/southeastern desert portions.
I would have assigned the eastern portions of Fresno and Tulare to Tuolumne or Mono, but good road connections don't really exist to make that feasible.
This is an interesting one.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 03, 2022, 06:37:33 AM
What about a city named Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch?
Already exists as a village, in NW Wales. I think that name would lose its charm if duplicated.
Quote from: kirbykart on November 03, 2022, 09:56:57 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 03, 2022, 06:37:33 AM
What about a city named Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch?
Already exists as a village, in NW Wales. I think that name would lose its charm if duplicated.
Or a long 100% English name: Whitelakemountaincitynearhighwaywhichisverygoodandnearforest.
^WWWWWHHHHHHHHHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?
Is Jade the new Mary Hannah?
Back on topic kind of, I personally think cities shouldn't cross county lines. This, in SD, would necessitate the re-creation of "South Sioux Falls", which would immediately be the 4th-largest city in the state with a population of ~28,000.
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 03, 2022, 07:34:10 PM
Is Jade the new Mary Hannah?
Jade Hall, East Carolina University.
Quote from: SD Mapman on November 03, 2022, 08:39:55 PM
Back on topic kind of, I personally think cities shouldn't cross county lines. This, in SD, would necessitate the re-creation of "South Sioux Falls", which would immediately be the 4th-largest city in the state with a population of ~28,000.
I agree that it's weird when a county line runs through a town.
Wichita is in Sedgwick County. The town of Sedgwick, however, is mostly in Harvey County, and its downtown is not in Sedgwick County. Kind of weird that only a small piece of the namesake is in this county.
Quote from: kphoger on November 03, 2022, 08:49:28 PM
Quote from: SD Mapman on November 03, 2022, 08:39:55 PM
Back on topic kind of, I personally think cities shouldn't cross county lines. This, in SD, would necessitate the re-creation of "South Sioux Falls", which would immediately be the 4th-largest city in the state with a population of ~28,000.
I agree that it's weird when a county line runs through a town.
I mean, in the Sioux Falls example, if you live on the north side of 57th St, when you need a license plate for your new car you just bought you just have to drive downtown (about 3 miles north). If you live on the south side of 57th and the same scenario applies, you have to travel about 20 miles or so to Canton.
Quote from: kphoger on November 03, 2022, 08:49:28 PM
Wichita is in Sedgwick County. The town of Sedgwick, however, is mostly in Harvey County, and its downtown is not in Sedgwick County. Kind of weird that only a small piece of the namesake is in this county.
Could be worse; Laramie, WY is not in Laramie County, the Laramie River doesn't flow through Laramie County, and Fort Laramie isn't in Laramie County either!
Quote from: SD Mapman on November 03, 2022, 08:39:55 PM
Back on topic kind of, I personally think cities shouldn't cross county lines. This, in SD, would necessitate the re-creation of "South Sioux Falls", which would immediately be the 4th-largest city in the state with a population of ~28,000.
Or Sioux Falls could be consolidated with Minnehaha County, creating city with many rural areas.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 04, 2022, 04:03:31 AM
Quote from: SD Mapman on November 03, 2022, 08:39:55 PM
Back on topic kind of, I personally think cities shouldn't cross county lines. This, in SD, would necessitate the re-creation of "South Sioux Falls", which would immediately be the 4th-largest city in the state with a population of ~28,000.
Or Sioux Falls could be consolidated with Minnehaha County, creating city with many rural areas.
We don't really do that here in SD; the City wouldn't want to take on extra road liability and the farmers hate change (violently). Plus there's all the townships to consider as well.
Quote from: SD Mapman on November 04, 2022, 04:22:02 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 04, 2022, 04:03:31 AM
Quote from: SD Mapman on November 03, 2022, 08:39:55 PM
Back on topic kind of, I personally think cities shouldn't cross county lines. This, in SD, would necessitate the re-creation of "South Sioux Falls", which would immediately be the 4th-largest city in the state with a population of ~28,000.
Or Sioux Falls could be consolidated with Minnehaha County, creating city with many rural areas.
We don't really do that here in SD; the City wouldn't want to take on extra road liability and the farmers hate change (violently). Plus there's all the townships to consider as well.
South Dakota does not have townships, it's just cities and counties. OTOH, t'd be all for having all of the county boards in Wisconsin taking over all of the townships within their respective borders, also having all of the incorporated former townships merged with their adjacent legacy cities and villages as part of a total statewide rethink of local government.
Mike
Quote from: SD Mapman on November 04, 2022, 03:02:55 AM
Could be worse; Laramie, WY is not in Laramie County, the Laramie River doesn't flow through Laramie County, and Fort Laramie isn't in Laramie County either!
And to add on to that - you've got Lari
mer County, Colorado in that same area
That's a whole thread unto itself.
Quote from: mgk920 on November 04, 2022, 04:06:15 PM
Quote from: SD Mapman on November 04, 2022, 04:22:02 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 04, 2022, 04:03:31 AM
Quote from: SD Mapman on November 03, 2022, 08:39:55 PM
Back on topic kind of, I personally think cities shouldn't cross county lines. This, in SD, would necessitate the re-creation of "South Sioux Falls", which would immediately be the 4th-largest city in the state with a population of ~28,000.
Or Sioux Falls could be consolidated with Minnehaha County, creating city with many rural areas.
We don't really do that here in SD; the City wouldn't want to take on extra road liability and the farmers hate change (violently). Plus there's all the townships to consider as well.
South Dakota does not have townships, it's just cities and counties. OTOH, t'd be all for having all of the county boards in Wisconsin taking over all of the townships within their respective borders, also having all of the incorporated former townships merged with their adjacent legacy cities and villages as part of a total statewide rethink of local government.
Mike
Actually, East River we do! They have very limited authority (mainly road maintenance) but they do exist. See https://www.minnehahacounty.org/residents/townships/townships.php (https://www.minnehahacounty.org/residents/townships/townships.php)
I was surprised when I found that out as well, I'm just used to counties maintaining rural roads like it is out west.
All other cities in Salt Lake County should be absorbed into Salt Lake City.
And the merged city's name should be Jadesoutten, not Salt Lake city.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 05, 2022, 03:44:37 PM
And the merged city's name should be Jadesoutten, not Salt Lake city.
In that same light, if/when the Appleton, WI area (Neenah through Kaukauna, Sherwood through the Greenville area and westward out to the Winchester area, et al) is turned into a single muni. I would give it a neutral name as well (ie, 'City of Fox Valley, WI' - population about 250K).
Mike
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 05, 2022, 03:26:53 PM
All other cities in Salt Lake County should be absorbed into Salt Lake City.
They're actually moving in the other direction (from what I can tell), e.g. Herriman separated from the Unified Police Department a few years ago.
Quote from: SD Mapman on November 05, 2022, 05:10:35 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 05, 2022, 03:26:53 PM
All other cities in Salt Lake County should be absorbed into Salt Lake City.
They're actually moving in the other direction (from what I can tell), e.g. Herriman separated from the Unified Police Department a few years ago.
My sense is that may be more related to the police department itself. Unified Fire hasn’t seen nearly the same level of exodus, IIRC.
That said, Salt Lake City proper accounts for a little less than 17% of the county population, and each of the suburbs and other municipalities does tend to be rather protective of its independent identity. Some of them are old enough that they had their own historic identities before SLC grew much outward, like Magna or Midvale or Murray (which for years has made “we are our own thing” a core part of how it operates - they even have their own school district and are by far the smallest city in the state with that distinction). You’re never going to see a consolidation - over 80% of the county is probably happy they
don’t live in SLC itself.
I won’t bother listing the multitude of reasons nothing in the area will ever be renamed to Jadesoutten, which I have no idea how to pronounce. Sorry Poiponen, not everyone shares your fascination with jade.
Quote from: US 89 on November 06, 2022, 02:33:36 AM
Quote from: SD Mapman on November 05, 2022, 05:10:35 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 05, 2022, 03:26:53 PM
All other cities in Salt Lake County should be absorbed into Salt Lake City.
They're actually moving in the other direction (from what I can tell), e.g. Herriman separated from the Unified Police Department a few years ago.
My sense is that may be more related to the police department itself. Unified Fire hasn't seen nearly the same level of exodus, IIRC.
That said, Salt Lake City proper accounts for a little less than 17% of the county population, and each of the suburbs and other municipalities does tend to be rather protective of its independent identity. Some of them are old enough that they had their own historic identities before SLC grew much outward, like Magna or Midvale or Murray (which for years has made "we are our own thing" a core part of how it operates - they even have their own school district and are by far the smallest city in the state with that distinction). You're never going to see a consolidation - over 80% of the county is probably happy they don't live in SLC itself.
I won't bother listing the multitude of reasons nothing in the area will ever be renamed to Jadesoutten, which I have no idea how to pronounce. Sorry Poiponen, not everyone shares your fascination with jade.
The name would be pronounced something like JAYD-sow-tn. And in similar vein, Miami should merge with all other cities in Miami-Dade County (but in this case the merged city would retain Miami name), Raleigh with all other cities in Wake County (to form a city named Mezenthorpe) and Phoenix with all other cities in Maricopa County (to form Arizona City).
Every municipality should merge with every county to form one large, international municipality called Ã.... There will be no need for your mayors, your court systems, your city ordinances. All will become one with Ã.... Ã... transcends boundaries. Life will be better in Ã.... Your children will grow up to be six inches taller and 25% stronger and better looking. Everyone will make 25% more money. Ã... is love, Ã... is life. Come live in Ã... with us–the only municipality.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 06, 2022, 05:34:01 AM
The name would be pronounced something like JAYD-sow-tn.
How do you know how the people there would pronounce it, considering you don't even know any of them?
Merge the NYC counties into one.
Quote from: plain on November 07, 2022, 02:11:00 PM
Merge the NYC counties into one.
Interesting to consider the opposite: breaking an urban county into pieces.
Cook County, IL?
Quote from: kphoger on November 07, 2022, 02:30:03 PM
Quote from: plain on November 07, 2022, 02:11:00 PM
Merge the NYC counties into one.
Interesting to consider the opposite: breaking an urban county into pieces.
Cook County, IL?
I suggested that in the original post.
Sorry. I wasn't interested in the topic at the beginning, so I ignored the thread. Then I became more curious, but I forgot to actually go back and read the OP.
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 05, 2022, 11:28:16 PM
the mythical (but strangely elusive in actual reality) "Shawnee Mission, KS"
It's historical, actual, and open for visitors Wednesday through Saturday: https://goo.gl/maps/DhCmrWw8RYJftsjz6
My mom (who grew up in Merriam) has good memories of visiting it as a child.
Yes, that's the actual mission...but good luck finding the supposed municipality "SHAWNEE MISSION KS 661XX" that the Post Office wants you to put on everything.
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 07, 2022, 10:27:26 PM
Yes, that's the actual mission...but good luck finding the supposed municipality "SHAWNEE MISSION KS 662XX" that the Post Office wants you to put on everything.
FTFY
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 07, 2022, 10:27:26 PM
Yes, that's the actual mission...but good luck finding the supposed municipality "SHAWNEE MISSION KS 661XX" that the Post Office wants you to put on everything.
The post office "wants you" to put that? I just searched my mom's childhood home address in Merriam, on the USPS ZIP code lookup website, and here are the results:
1. If I search for the address with "Merriam" as the town, then the tool spits out "GOODMAN ST / MERRIAM KS 66202-2242".
2, If I search for the address with "Mission" as the town, then the tool spits out "GOODMAN ST / MISSION KS 66202-2242".
3. If I search for the address with "Roeland Park" as the town, then the tool spits out "GOODMAN ST / ROELAND PARK KS 66202-2242".
4. If I search for the address with "Shawnee Mission" as the town, then the tool spits out "GOODMAN ST / SHAWNEE MISSION KS 66202-2242".
5. If I leave the City field blank and just search by ZIP Code alone, then the tool spits out "GOODMAN ST / MISSION KS 66202-2242".
I did the same thing for my dad's childhood home in Mission, and I got the same pattern of results: whether I enter the actual town name or "Shawnee Mission" or (presumably perhaps) some other town within the Shawnee Mission umbrella, it accepts it either way–but, if I leave that part up to the USPS tool, then it defaults to an actual town name, not the "mythical" Shawnee Mission.
Wikipedia says:
QuoteShawnee Mission, Kansas /ʃɔːniˈmɪʃən/ [S: did that really need a pronunciation guide?] is a place-name created in the 1960s by the United States Postal Service to denote a large postal coverage area (ZIP Codes 662xx) at the northeastern tip of Johnson County, Kansas which contains numerous towns, and to structure management of the post offices located therein. Effectively, these towns' post offices are subsidiaries of the Shawnee Mission Main Post Office, located in Mission, Kansas. Properly, a mailing address may indicate the delivery "place" as either Shawnee Mission, or the actual town name, and be treated the same.
Of course, I see no citations there, so believe it as much as you want. Based on the article, and the vague recollections I have from when my aunt lived in Shawnee, I'm guessing that originally "SHAWNEE MISSION KS" was the primary and the actual city names were the secondary "acceptable" designations, and then at some point they switched the city names to primary and "SHAWNEE MISSION KS" to secondary. (Probably because nobody was actually putting Shawnee Mission.)
Either way, the point that I'm getting at is that there is no real town called "Shawnee Mission"; it's a fiction invented by the post office to make sorting 662XX zip codes easier.
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 08, 2022, 06:20:04 PM
Either way, the point that I'm getting at is that there is no real town called "Shawnee Mission"; it's a fiction invented by the post office to make sorting 662XX zip codes easier.
The area was already called 'Shawnee Mission' by the 1960s, though. Shawnee Mission East High School has been in operation under that name since 1958. By the time the suburbs grew far enough out for Shawnee Mission Rural High School to be renamed in accordance with its no longer being in a rural area, the area was already known as Shawnee Mission. My paternal grandparents bought their house one block northeast of Lamar & Johnson Drive back in 1953, when there wasn't even a street in front of it yet. My dad was one year old at the time, and there's never been a period of time that he's
not said he's from Shawnee Mission.
So it's wholly inaccurate to say that the USPS "created" the placename. The area was already called that informally, and had been already for about a century–pretty much ever since the mission was relocated there in 1839.
Heck, the capital of Kansas Territory was briefly and controversially, from 1855 to 1856, officially located in a town called Shawnee Mission (formerly in Pawnee and subsequently in Lecompton). I believe the "Shawnee" part of Shawnee Mission's town name wasn't dropped until 1940.
Remember that the suburbs didn't all just suddenly appear as a conglomerate. Even though the name 'Shawnee Mission' technically only applied to what is now properly called Mission, the whole area was known by that name–just as rural areas near any other town are often colloquially referred to by that town's name.
I've gone ahead and added some sources to the article. Indeed it was just a reused name that was given to the post office in 1960.
If you're interested in the history of Shawnee Mission–and if you want to read about voter fraud, people refusing to acknowledge the results of an election, death threats against judges, armed men being led across state lines by a federal politician to interfere in an election, and the interplay between the issues of slavery and state sovereignty in the years leading up to the Civil War–I know, I know, not that anybody talks about any of that sort of stuff anymore, of course–then a good place to start would be to read up on the "Bogus Legislature".
There should also be "supracounties" or "prefectures" between counties and states.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 10, 2022, 05:36:43 AM
There should also be "supracounties" or "prefectures" between counties and states.
Don't a lot of statewide agencies already have those? I'm thinking of DOT districts, especially.
Scott said the entire Earth will merge into
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 06, 2022, 12:30:33 PMÃ...
But why exclude other planets? Even other galaxies?
Quote from: kirbykart on November 10, 2022, 02:23:32 PM
Scott said the entire Earth will merge into
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 06, 2022, 12:30:33 PM
Ã...
But why exclude other planets? Even other galaxies?
The increase in tax revenue wouldn't justify the added bureaucracy.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 10, 2022, 05:36:43 AM
There should also be "supracounties" or "prefectures" between counties and states.
What would be the point of that?
In metro areas that comprise multiple counties, you already have "councils of government" like the Association of Central Oklahoma Governments (ACOG) (https://www.acogok.org/) to coordinate regional projects that cross county lines, like bus systems or what have you. But if you created those for rural counties, it'd just be another layer of government officials you have to vote for and watch to make sure they're not stealing shit. In the rural areas, there's just not a whole lot of reasons, say, Le Flore County and McCurtain County need to collaborate on anything, and when they do, going through the state is normally a perfectly acceptable way of handling it.
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 06, 2022, 12:30:33 PM
Every municipality should merge with every county to form one large, international municipality called Ã.... There will be no need for your mayors, your court systems, your city ordinances. All will become one with Ã.... Ã... transcends boundaries. Life will be better in Ã.... Your children will grow up to be six inches taller and 25% stronger and better looking. Everyone will make 25% more money. Ã... is love, Ã... is life. Come live in Ã... with us–the only municipality.
So basically the Los Angeles Angels logo as the name?
Quote from: Hunty2022 on November 10, 2022, 05:28:45 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 06, 2022, 12:30:33 PM
Every municipality should merge with every county to form one large, international municipality called Ã.... There will be no need for your mayors, your court systems, your city ordinances. All will become one with Ã.... Ã... transcends boundaries. Life will be better in Ã.... Your children will grow up to be six inches taller and 25% stronger and better looking. Everyone will make 25% more money. Ã... is love, Ã... is life. Come live in Ã... with us–the only municipality.
So basically the Los Angeles Angels logo as the name?
Nah, just an expansion of the Norwegian village of Ã... i Lofoten across the entire globe.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/%C3%85_i_Lofoten.jpg)
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 10, 2022, 05:58:06 PM
Quote from: Hunty2022 on November 10, 2022, 05:28:45 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 06, 2022, 12:30:33 PM
Every municipality should merge with every county to form one large, international municipality called Ã.... There will be no need for your mayors, your court systems, your city ordinances. All will become one with Ã.... Ã... transcends boundaries. Life will be better in Ã.... Your children will grow up to be six inches taller and 25% stronger and better looking. Everyone will make 25% more money. Ã... is love, Ã... is life. Come live in Ã... with us–the only municipality.
So basically the Los Angeles Angels logo as the name?
Nah, just an expansion of the Norwegian village of Ã... i Lofoten across the entire globe.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/%C3%85_i_Lofoten.jpg)
I fully support this. I am a quarter Norwegian so this will allow me to reconnect with my heritage... although it means I probably have to start eating lutefisk.
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 10, 2022, 02:46:18 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 10, 2022, 05:36:43 AM
There should also be "supracounties" or "prefectures" between counties and states.
What would be the point of that?
In metro areas that comprise multiple counties, you already have "councils of government" like the Association of Central Oklahoma Governments (ACOG) (https://www.acogok.org/) to coordinate regional projects that cross county lines, like bus systems or what have you. But if you created those for rural counties, it'd just be another layer of government officials you have to vote for and watch to make sure they're not stealing shit. In the rural areas, there's just not a whole lot of reasons, say, Le Flore County and McCurtain County need to collaborate on anything, and when they do, going through the state is normally a perfectly acceptable way of handling it.
Like Chinese prefectures and prefecture-level cities. They would enclose counties and county-level cities, which would then enclose towns and townships.
And there should also Native American counties and Native American townships.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 11, 2022, 04:26:38 AM
And there should also Native American counties and Native American townships.
Reservations, basically? I don't see what you're getting at, since sovereign reservations have as much (if not more) power than a county equivalent. Some counties have multiple reservations, some reservations span multiple counties.
And most of the West doesn't do the whole "named townships for every square inch of land" thing. There's numbers you only encounter in property records and the like.
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 10, 2022, 05:58:06 PM
Quote from: Hunty2022 on November 10, 2022, 05:28:45 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 06, 2022, 12:30:33 PM
Every municipality should merge with every county to form one large, international municipality called Ã.... There will be no need for your mayors, your court systems, your city ordinances. All will become one with Ã.... Ã... transcends boundaries. Life will be better in Ã.... Your children will grow up to be six inches taller and 25% stronger and better looking. Everyone will make 25% more money. Ã... is love, Ã... is life. Come live in Ã... with us–the only municipality.
So basically the Los Angeles Angels logo as the name?
Nah, just an expansion of the Norwegian village of Ã... i Lofoten across the entire globe.
I'd rather merge everything into Ro(o)mbas :sombrero:.
Quote from: Bruce on November 11, 2022, 05:42:13 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 11, 2022, 04:26:38 AM
And there should also Native American counties and Native American townships.
Reservations, basically? I don't see what you're getting at, since sovereign reservations have as much (if not more) power than a county equivalent. Some counties have multiple reservations, some reservations span multiple counties.
And most of the West doesn't do the whole "named townships for every square inch of land" thing. There's numbers you only encounter in property records and the like.
Like Chinese autonomous prefectures, autonomous counties and ethnic townships. The Native American counties would be county-equivalents.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 10, 2022, 05:36:43 AM
There should also be "supracounties" or "prefectures" between counties and states.
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 10, 2022, 02:46:18 PM
What would be the point of that?
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 11, 2022, 03:50:28 AM
Like Chinese prefectures and prefecture-level cities. They would enclose counties and county-level cities, which would then enclose towns and townships.
Does not answer the question that was asked.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 11, 2022, 06:09:39 AM
Like Chinese ... ethnic ...
I suggest that we don't follow China's example in how to treat ethnic minorities.
For some reason, I was incorrectly under the impression that Native American "ethnic counties" existed. For example, in any recent electoral map, in the Dakotas, Montana, and Wyoming, you'll see a few blue counties in a sea of red, some of them dark blue. Most, but not all, of them are blue because of the Native American vote.
The reason I say "incorrectly" is because they just happen to be in the county; the county isn't explicitly for the reservation.
Quote from: 1 on November 11, 2022, 10:09:21 AM
For some reason, I was incorrectly under the impression that Native American "ethnic counties" existed. For example, in any recent electoral map, in the Dakotas, Montana, and Wyoming, you'll see a few blue counties in a sea of red, some of them dark blue. Most, but not all, of them are blue because of the Native American vote.
The reason I say "incorrectly" is because they just happen to be in the county; the county isn't explicitly for the reservation.
Doesn't Wisconsin have a county that was formed to include a reservation?
Quote from: bandit957 on November 11, 2022, 10:12:09 AM
Quote from: 1 on November 11, 2022, 10:09:21 AM
For some reason, I was incorrectly under the impression that Native American "ethnic counties" existed. For example, in any recent electoral map, in the Dakotas, Montana, and Wyoming, you'll see a few blue counties in a sea of red, some of them dark blue. Most, but not all, of them are blue because of the Native American vote.
The reason I say "incorrectly" is because they just happen to be in the county; the county isn't explicitly for the reservation.
Doesn't Wisconsin have a county that was formed to include a reservation?
Menominee County is dark blue on a map surrounded by a sea of light-to-medium red. Looking at Wikipedia, it appears that yes, it's a reservation county.
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 10, 2022, 02:46:18 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 10, 2022, 05:36:43 AM
There should also be "supracounties" or "prefectures" between counties and states.
What would be the point of that?
In metro areas that comprise multiple counties, you already have "councils of government" like the Association of Central Oklahoma Governments (ACOG) (https://www.acogok.org/) to coordinate regional projects that cross county lines, like bus systems or what have you. But if you created those for rural counties, it'd just be another layer of government officials you have to vote for and watch to make sure they're not stealing shit. In the rural areas, there's just not a whole lot of reasons, say, Le Flore County and McCurtain County need to collaborate on anything, and when they do, going through the state is normally a perfectly acceptable way of handling it.
Have a new level in government.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 10, 2022, 05:36:43 AM
There should also be "supracounties" or "prefectures" between counties and states.
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 10, 2022, 02:46:18 PM
What would be the point of that?
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 11, 2022, 12:11:07 PM
Have a new level in government.
Does not answer the question that was asked.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 11, 2022, 04:26:38 AM
And there should also Native American counties and Native American townships.
Osage County, Oklahoma and Oglala Lakota County, South Dakota say hi.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 11, 2022, 12:11:07 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 10, 2022, 02:46:18 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 10, 2022, 05:36:43 AM
There should also be "supracounties" or "prefectures" between counties and states.
What would be the point of that?
In metro areas that comprise multiple counties, you already have "councils of government" like the Association of Central Oklahoma Governments (ACOG) (https://www.acogok.org/) to coordinate regional projects that cross county lines, like bus systems or what have you. But if you created those for rural counties, it'd just be another layer of government officials you have to vote for and watch to make sure they're not stealing shit. In the rural areas, there's just not a whole lot of reasons, say, Le Flore County and McCurtain County need to collaborate on anything, and when they do, going through the state is normally a perfectly acceptable way of handling it.
Have a new level in government.
And what benefit would that give me? If there was a layer of government between Cleveland County and Oklahoma, I would have to pay taxes to fund that government and vote in elections to decide who runs that government. What does that
get me that the current government structure does not?
Scott5114, does the name Tom Cole sound familiar to you?
Quote from: 1 on November 11, 2022, 04:08:07 PM
Scott5114, does the name Tom Cole sound familiar to you?
I have many opinions about Tom Cole that I'm not supposed to post on this forum, but may I ask what particular facet of him you're interested in?
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 11, 2022, 04:10:25 PM
Quote from: 1 on November 11, 2022, 04:08:07 PM
Scott5114, does the name Tom Cole sound familiar to you?
I have many opinions about Tom Cole that I'm not supposed to post on this forum, but may I ask what particular facet of him you're interested in?
Poiponen13 was just asking about if there was something between the state level and the county level. I'm just telling you it already exists.
Congressional districts don't fit what he's asking for, because:
1) they're actually a part of the federal government (it is hard to see how the House of Representatives is between the state and county level, given that Rep. Cole can and does vote on bills that affect Massachusetts just the same as they affect Oklahoma)
2) they provide no real government services other those provided by a single office holder (and his salary is not paid solely by the people of Oklahoma's 4th district, he's paid by the federal government)
3) the boundaries are subject to change every 10 years (and the district can even be abolished as part of that routine redistricting)
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 11, 2022, 04:19:49 PM
Congressional districts don't fit what he's asking for, because:
1) they're actually a part of the federal government (it is hard to see how the House of Representatives is between the state and county level, given that Rep. Cole can and does vote on bills that affect Massachusetts just the same as they affect Oklahoma)
2) they provide no real government services other those provided by a single office holder (and his salary is not paid solely by the people of Oklahoma's 4th district, he's paid by the federal government)
3) the boundaries are subject to change every 10 years (and the district can even be abolished as part of that routine redistricting)
They're also not a geographic entity tabulated by the Census Bureau directly. You have to use the state's definition of the counties/tracts/blocks included in a congressional district in order to tabulate the data yourself.
Why stop with counties? We could make a real-world version of The Cession (https://motherland.fandom.com/wiki/Chippewa_Cession) (which was depicted as being sovereign to the point of having border checkpoints and banning the entry of the US military and on-duty government officials).
Quote from: 1 on November 11, 2022, 10:14:36 AM
Quote from: bandit957 on November 11, 2022, 10:12:09 AM
Quote from: 1 on November 11, 2022, 10:09:21 AM
For some reason, I was incorrectly under the impression that Native American "ethnic counties" existed. For example, in any recent electoral map, in the Dakotas, Montana, and Wyoming, you'll see a few blue counties in a sea of red, some of them dark blue. Most, but not all, of them are blue because of the Native American vote.
The reason I say "incorrectly" is because they just happen to be in the county; the county isn't explicitly for the reservation.
Doesn't Wisconsin have a county that was formed to include a reservation?
Menominee County is dark blue on a map surrounded by a sea of light-to-medium red. Looking at Wikipedia, it appears that yes, it's a reservation county.
New York also has several reservations, but none of them are their own county, and none are big enough to swing the vote of the counties they're located in (at least not to my knowledge).
One idea I have for Virginia: Independent cities could be absorbed back into the counties they surround/border, including the return of counties abolished by independent city expansion, like Warwick, Nanesmond, Norfolk, Elizabeth City, and Princess Anne.
Reasoning: Three independent cities in the Commonwealth have reverted to town status. In 2014, many of these cities were experiencing very high fiscal stress. Martinsville has been trying to revert to town status. Virginia granted the option in 2017 for 27 independent county-level municipalities to revert to town status, all of which had populations of 50,000 or less without the requirement of action from the state legislature. Some cities if they didn’t have the county-level status already straddle two counties. I would, however, change some boundaries with the new map of Virginia:
1. Arlington County would be absorbed into Fairfax County.
2. Using blocks, the Public Land Survey system, and voting precincts, Fredericksburg would be split between Stafford and Spotsylvania Counties as evenly as possible.
3. Norfolk would return mostly to Princess Anne County’s jurisdiction, as it was during the 19th century, but the Berkeley and Campostella/Campostella Heights neighborhoods would be in Norfolk County, and thus also under the new Norfolk County’s jurisdiction, as would the Blackwater neighborhood of the current Virginia Beach.
4. Some neighborhoods of Lynchburg would be turned over to Bedford County, thus putting Lynchburg in both Campbell and Bedford Counties.
5. Some areas of Williamsburg would be placed in York County.
6. The area annexed from what was then Elizabeth City County would be placed back in EC County, thus placing a portion of Newport News in Elizabeth City County.
Outside of territorial changes, the new map of Virginia is mostly unchanged, other than adding new counties in Southeast Virginia, and county borders returning to pre-1900 borders.
How about city names that seem unpronounceable?
- Lnrvdxkk
- Ghhhhhjjkjkkjkjkjkjklkjjj
- Abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
- Qwertyuiopasdfghjklzxcvbnm
- Qazwsxedcrfvtgbyhnujmikolp
- Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz City
- Pffffffffffffft City
- Nw Yrk Ct
Zzyzx (except that one exists)
Like Quebec Saint-Louis-du-Ha! Ha!, some places could have exclamation and questionmarks. Like:
- Greenville! Greenville!! Greenville!!!
- Noooo! Noooo!! Noooo!!! City
- Westfield of Pick! Pick!
- Question? City
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 22, 2022, 12:13:36 PM
- Question? City
Ah yes, the new name for Maranello (https://youtube.com/shorts/LCe8V7MROe4?feature=share).
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 22, 2022, 02:13:54 AM
How about city names that seem unpronounceable?
- Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz City
- Pffffffffffffft City
Those are easy to pronounce.
Consolidating counties has been an at least semi-serious discussion in West Virginia as the state empties and leaves behind political entities that are simply too small to function effectively.
They have done a few things. The state got the counties out of the jail business over the last 20 years or so, which was a good idea. However they created an intermediate level of fat between the county school system and the states, which served no real purpose and was abandoned. Not exactly county related, but the state has WAY too many judges (which between their over-pay and their over-staffed staff's over-pay cost the state about $400K/year) because counties which have emptied still have judicial staff based on the population from decades ago. When the parties changed control about 10 years ago, they said they were going to look into it, but nothing ever changed.
Quote from: kphoger on November 22, 2022, 02:21:38 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 22, 2022, 02:13:54 AM
How about city names that seem unpronounceable?
- Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz City
- Pffffffffffffft City
Those are easy to pronounce.
Janesville, Wisconsin used to have a restaurant called the Hhffrrrggh Inn.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on November 22, 2022, 02:56:17 PM
Hhffrrrggh Inn
I think I pronounced that very phrase yesterday evening, when I was lifting a heavy box.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 22, 2022, 12:13:36 PM
- Greenville! Greenville!! Greenville!!!
- Noooo! Noooo!! Noooo!!! City
- Westfield of Pick! Pick!
I don't think anything on this forum has made me laugh as hard as this.
A reading from II Dissolutions 4:56-70...
So that it was, when the proclamation had came to pass, the village of Westfield of Pick! Pick! was decided against war with the Nimbyans. Whereunto, on the sixth hour of the third day of the thirteenth month, the Warbler said unto the lord Mandunaterrasta, "Dost thou understand the graveness of the circumstances? The battle shall be long and there shall be a great slaughter of our own. The enemy will pursue with caterpillars and chariots of the sea." "Be not afraid, chief Warbler," Mandunaterrasta responded unto him, "for it is from thine own house that victory will be secured." "My begotten is not readied to command such an army," the Warbler replied unto Mandunaterrasta. "No, it shall be so. I prophesy that if the battle is won by your begotten Greenville, however great the loss will be, then my curse of blight shall not be on you and your descendants." So Mandunaterrasta went to his own land. It so happened that on the fifth day that Greenville led the village into battle. As the armies came to the valley, there was a great slaughter, and many were slewn by the sword. But the battle went sore against Greenville and his armorbearers, hence that his body was cut into a hundred pieces. Nevertheless, the village repelled the invaders, and a great sacrifice was held in honor of the slain. Then it became known to the Warbler that Greenville had perished, so he tore his clothes and covered himself with ash, mourning him, saying, "Oh my begotten, Greenville! If only I were slain instead of thee! Oh Greenville! Greenville!! Greenville!!!"
Quote from: CoreySamson on November 23, 2022, 12:37:03 PM
A reading from II Dissolutions 4:56-70...
So that it was, when the proclamation had came to pass, the village of Westfield of Pick! Pick! was decided against war with the Nimbyans. Whereunto, on the sixth hour of the third day of the thirteenth month, the Warbler said unto the lord Mandunaterrasta, "Dost thou understand the graveness of the circumstances? The battle shall be long and there shall be a great slaughter of our own. The enemy will pursue with caterpillars and chariots of the sea." "Be not afraid, chief Warbler," Mandunaterrasta responded unto him, "for it is from thine own house that victory will be secured." "My begotten is not readied to command such an army," the Warbler replied unto Mandunaterrasta. "No, it shall be so. I prophesy that if the battle is won by your begotten Greenville, however great the loss will be, then my curse of blight shall not be on you and your descendants." So Mandunaterrasta went to his own land. It so happened that on the fifth day that Greenville led the village into battle. As the armies came to the valley, there was a great slaughter, and many were slewn by the sword. But the battle went sore against Greenville and his armorbearers, hence that his body was cut into a hundred pieces. Nevertheless, the village repelled the invaders, and a great sacrifice was held in honor of the slain. Then it became known to the Warbler that Greenville had perished, so he tore his clothes and covered himself with ash, mourning him, saying, "Oh my begotten, Greenville! If only I were slain instead of thee! Oh Greenville! Greenville!! Greenville!!!"
I like how you added the extra exclamation points at the end for more emphasis. That was a nice touch.
(For the uninitiated, I should explain that, in the oldest manuscripts, verse 70 ends with "... slain instead of thee!" The extra bit at the end appears to be a gloss added later by scribes. So CoreySamson's additional punctuation serves to further reinforce the gloss.)
Los Angeles could grow bigger in area when many too small municipalities are absorbed into it. Such as Inglewood, Culver City and Santa Monica.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 22, 2022, 02:13:54 AM
How about city names that seem unpronounceable?
- Lnrvdxkk
- Ghhhhhjjkjkkjkjkjkjklkjjj
- Abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
- Qwertyuiopasdfghjklzxcvbnm
- Qazwsxedcrfvtgbyhnujmikolp
- Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz City
- Pffffffffffffft City
- Nw Yrk Ct
But why?
*calls 911*
Dispatcher: Where are you?
Caller: Chestnut Street in *fails to pronounce Ghhhhhjjkjkkjkjkjkjklkjjj*
Dispatcher: Where?
Caller: *passes out from blood loss*
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 24, 2022, 01:59:13 PM
Los Angeles could grow bigger in area when many too small municipalities are absorbed into it. Such as Inglewood, Culver City and Santa Monica.
Good point but San Fernando Valley part of Los Angeles proposed a Brexit type move one time when the Valley would be a separate city from the rest of Los Angeles until it was canceled in 2002.
https://www.dailynews.com/2012/11/04/secession-drive-changed-san-fernando-valley-los-angeles/
There have been noises made regarding the fiscal sustainability of the smaller towns and villages of rural Louisiana (mostly populations <1000). Some of them operate and control municipal water systems that also serve areas outside of the municipal boundaries and earn money for the municipality; however many of those water systems are aging and lack funds for repairs/upgrades to current EPA standards. Maybe disincorporation and absorbing the water systems into larger entities would be the best option for many of these places. The communities themselves are in long-term decline with little economic viability.
This is certainly an issue for many rural communities across the country.
Quote from: Urban Prairie Schooner on November 27, 2022, 05:18:19 PM
There have been noises made regarding the fiscal sustainability of the smaller towns and villages of rural Louisiana (mostly populations <1000). Some of them operate and control municipal water systems that also serve areas outside of the municipal boundaries and earn money for the municipality; however many of those water systems are aging and lack funds for repairs/upgrades to current EPA standards. Maybe disincorporation and absorbing the water systems into larger entities would be the best option for many of these places. The communities themselves are in long-term decline with little economic viability.
This is certainly an issue for many rural communities across the country.
This could very well be a long-term issue with many sprawling, spread out suburban munis, as well, if they were developed on the late-20th century WWII Veteran/Boomer/Xer model. Their infrastructures will be wearing out and/or becoming functionally obsolete without the tax base needed to rebuild and/or update them to the then needed levels of service. Will their metro central cities be able to take them in? I have seen many articles on this subject within recent years.
Mike
Quote from: bing101 on November 26, 2022, 12:52:40 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 24, 2022, 01:59:13 PM
Los Angeles could grow bigger in area when many too small municipalities are absorbed into it. Such as Inglewood, Culver City and Santa Monica.
Good point but San Fernando Valley part of Los Angeles proposed a Brexit type move one time when the Valley would be a separate city from the rest of Los Angeles until it was canceled in 2002.
https://www.dailynews.com/2012/11/04/secession-drive-changed-san-fernando-valley-los-angeles/ (https://www.dailynews.com/2012/11/04/secession-drive-changed-san-fernando-valley-los-angeles/)
Los Angeles could also be separated from Los Angeles County to form City and County of Los Angeles.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 28, 2022, 12:59:31 PM
Quote from: bing101 on November 26, 2022, 12:52:40 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 24, 2022, 01:59:13 PM
Los Angeles could grow bigger in area when many too small municipalities are absorbed into it. Such as Inglewood, Culver City and Santa Monica.
Good point but San Fernando Valley part of Los Angeles proposed a Brexit type move one time when the Valley would be a separate city from the rest of Los Angeles until it was canceled in 2002.
https://www.dailynews.com/2012/11/04/secession-drive-changed-san-fernando-valley-los-angeles/ (https://www.dailynews.com/2012/11/04/secession-drive-changed-san-fernando-valley-los-angeles/)
Los Angeles could also be separated from Los Angeles County to form City and County of Los Angeles.
In that same light, I sometimes wonder how long it will be (after the city gets its governance act together) before some of those 'basket case' south Chicagoland suburbs (ie, Harvey') throw in the towel and seek to join the city.
Mike
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 28, 2022, 12:59:31 PM
Quote from: bing101 on November 26, 2022, 12:52:40 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 24, 2022, 01:59:13 PM
Los Angeles could grow bigger in area when many too small municipalities are absorbed into it. Such as Inglewood, Culver City and Santa Monica.
Good point but San Fernando Valley part of Los Angeles proposed a Brexit type move one time when the Valley would be a separate city from the rest of Los Angeles until it was canceled in 2002.
https://www.dailynews.com/2012/11/04/secession-drive-changed-san-fernando-valley-los-angeles/ (https://www.dailynews.com/2012/11/04/secession-drive-changed-san-fernando-valley-los-angeles/)
Los Angeles could also be separated from Los Angeles County to form City and County of Los Angeles.
Upgrade them both. Los Angeles City becomes its own county; Los Angeles County becomes its own state.
Quote from: Evan_Th on November 28, 2022, 02:38:06 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 28, 2022, 12:59:31 PM
Quote from: bing101 on November 26, 2022, 12:52:40 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 24, 2022, 01:59:13 PM
Los Angeles could grow bigger in area when many too small municipalities are absorbed into it. Such as Inglewood, Culver City and Santa Monica.
Good point but San Fernando Valley part of Los Angeles proposed a Brexit type move one time when the Valley would be a separate city from the rest of Los Angeles until it was canceled in 2002.
https://www.dailynews.com/2012/11/04/secession-drive-changed-san-fernando-valley-los-angeles/ (https://www.dailynews.com/2012/11/04/secession-drive-changed-san-fernando-valley-los-angeles/)
Los Angeles could also be separated from Los Angeles County to form City and County of Los Angeles.
Upgrade them both. Los Angeles City becomes its own county; Los Angeles County becomes its own state.
California becomes its own country. The United States becomes its own continent. North America becomes its own planet. Earth becomes its own solar system. The solar system becomes its own galaxy. The Milky Way becomes its own universe.
I think this is needed.
Split the southern third of Milwaukee County. They are so different politically from the rest of the county. They should be their own county. I would also merge the 2 Pewaukee's as one. I would also merge Wisconsin Dells and Lake Delton as one city.
Quote from: dvferyance on November 30, 2022, 10:13:11 PM
Split the southern third of Milwaukee County. They are so different politically from the rest of the county. They should be their own county. I would also merge the 2 Pewaukee's as one. I would also merge Wisconsin Dells and Lake Delton as one city.
All other cities in Milwaukee County should be merged into Milwaukee.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 01, 2022, 03:06:37 AM
Quote from: dvferyance on November 30, 2022, 10:13:11 PM
Split the southern third of Milwaukee County. They are so different politically from the rest of the county. They should be their own county. I would also merge the 2 Pewaukee's as one. I would also merge Wisconsin Dells and Lake Delton as one city.
All other cities in Milwaukee County should be merged into Milwaukee.
Not just Milwaukee County, but the (really, as in about 1980 or so) old Wisconsin Telephone (when it was part of AT&T) Milwaukee 'Metroplan' local calling area should be politically one city with one mayor and one city council. Ditto the rest of the metros in the state. Yes, even Redgranite and Lohrville as well as Mayville and Kekoskee.
Mike
Isn't it a benefit to have diversity within a political jurisdiction? :hmmm:
Can we change state borders in this thread as well?
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 01, 2022, 04:17:03 PM
Can we change state borders in this thread as well?
I'd prefer not since that takes an act of Congress.
Quote from: kphoger on December 01, 2022, 03:23:48 PM
Isn't it a benefit to have diversity within a political jurisdiction? :hmmm:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority
Not saying it always happens, but it can be a risk that a political jurisdiction that serves many different distinct constituencies can have.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on December 01, 2022, 04:25:19 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 01, 2022, 04:17:03 PM
Can we change state borders in this thread as well?
I'd prefer not since that takes an act of Congress.
If I can build interstates in Iraq I can redraw states
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 01, 2022, 04:33:39 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on December 01, 2022, 04:25:19 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 01, 2022, 04:17:03 PM
Can we change state borders in this thread as well?
I'd prefer not since that takes an act of Congress.
If I can build interstates in Iraq I can redraw states
Can you build interstates in Iraq?
Quote from: 1 on December 01, 2022, 04:34:42 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 01, 2022, 04:33:39 PM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on December 01, 2022, 04:25:19 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 01, 2022, 04:17:03 PM
Can we change state borders in this thread as well?
I'd prefer not since that takes an act of Congress.
If I can build interstates in Iraq I can redraw states
Can you build interstates in Iraq?
I'm sure we could have if we wanted to after we invaded their country 2 decades ago.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 01, 2022, 04:35:33 PM
I'm sure we could have if we wanted to after we invaded their country 2 decades ago.
Were you even allowed over there? Last I checked, you can't build anything if you're not there to build it.
Quote from: kphoger on December 01, 2022, 03:23:48 PM
Isn't it a benefit to have diversity within a political jurisdiction? :hmmm:
IMHO, the big benefit is that the city's governance should reflect the mores and sensibilities of the entire metropolitan community. right now, the city and suburbs in every metro are essentially two separate worlds. No wonder they can't get along.
mike
Oklahoma City (which is in both Oklahoma County and Cleveland County) could be separated to new City and County of Oklahoma City.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 02, 2022, 02:50:30 AM
Oklahoma City (which is in both Oklahoma County and Cleveland County) could be separated to new City and County of Oklahoma City.
Oklahoma City and Oklahoma County should merge. Oklahoma County doesn't really do a whole lot, given that so much of its territory is within OKC limits. Maybe we'd finally get the fucking jail fixed once and for all, too.
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 02, 2022, 05:06:32 AM
the fucking jail
You have a jail dedicated to rapists only?
Florida: (presented with no thought as to feasibility :popcorn:)
- Split Volusia County between west (county seat: DeLand) and east (county seat: Daytona Beach).
- Merge Jacksonville Beach, Atlantic Beach, Neptune Beach, and Baldwin into Jacksonville (consolidated with Duval County).
- Merge each of the twenty-six counties with a population under 50,000 with their neighbors or, where more practicable, each other.
- Make Miami (including Key Biscayne and intervening unincorporated lands) an independent city, and rename the county from which it separates back to Dade County.
- Make Orlando (including intervening CDPs and unincorporated lands) an independent city, and merge the eastern remnant of Orange County with Seminole County.
- Make the Keys their own county.
Quote from: Halian on December 03, 2022, 02:58:38 PM
- ...
- Merge each of the twenty-six counties with a population under 50,000 with their neighbors or, where more practicable, each other.
- ...
- Make the Keys their own county.
So you'll combine counties with under 50k, and then create a new one well under 20k people?
Quote from: GaryV on December 03, 2022, 03:02:09 PMQuote from: Halian on December 03, 2022, 02:58:38 PM- ...
- Merge each of the twenty-six counties with a population under 50,000 with their neighbors or, where more practicable, each other.
- ...
- Make the Keys their own county.
So you'll combine counties with under 50k, and then create a new one well under 20k people?
The Keys have a population of 73,090, per the 2010 census.
Quote from: Halian on December 03, 2022, 02:58:38 PM
Florida: (presented with no thought as to feasibility :popcorn: )
- Split Volusia County between west (county seat: DeLand) and east (county seat: Daytona Beach).
- Merge Jacksonville Beach, Atlantic Beach, Neptune Beach, and Baldwin into Jacksonville (consolidated with Duval County).
- Merge each of the twenty-six counties with a population under 50,000 with their neighbors or, where more practicable, each other.
- Make Miami (including Key Biscayne and intervening unincorporated lands) an independent city, and rename the county from which it separates back to Dade County.
- Make Orlando (including intervening CDPs and unincorporated lands) an independent city, and merge the eastern remnant of Orange County with Seminole County.
- Make the Keys their own county.
- Merge all other cities in Miami-Dade County into Miami. They alrealdy have same house numbering system as Miami.
- Merge all other cities in Orange County into Orlando.
- Merge all other cities in Marion County into Ocala.
- Merge Pinellas Park, Largo, Clearwater, Dunedin and Tarpon Springs into St. Petersburg, and make St. Petersburg an indepedent city.
Quote from: Halian on December 03, 2022, 03:16:09 PM
Quote from: GaryV on December 03, 2022, 03:02:09 PMQuote from: Halian on December 03, 2022, 02:58:38 PM- ...
- Merge each of the twenty-six counties with a population under 50,000 with their neighbors or, where more practicable, each other.
- ...
- Make the Keys their own county.
So you'll combine counties with under 50k, and then create a new one well under 20k people?
The Keys have a population of 73,090, per the 2010 census.
You're right. I don't know why the first site that popped up on Google (some real estate) said 12k.
So basically you just want to add the mainland parts of Monroe County to Collier?
Quote from: GaryV on December 03, 2022, 03:23:54 PMQuote from: Halian on December 03, 2022, 03:16:09 PMQuote from: GaryV on December 03, 2022, 03:02:09 PMQuote from: Halian on December 03, 2022, 02:58:38 PM- ...
- Merge each of the twenty-six counties with a population under 50,000 with their neighbors or, where more practicable, each other.
- ...
- Make the Keys their own county.
So you'll combine counties with under 50k, and then create a new one well under 20k people?
The Keys have a population of 73,090, per the 2010 census.
You're right. I don't know why the first site that popped up on Google (some real estate) said 12k.
So basically you just want to add the mainland parts of Monroe County to Collier?
Sure; it never made sense to me that the Keys were physically disconnected from the rest of their county.
Boise, Meridian, Nampa, Caldwell, Star, Eagle and Kuna should be consolidated to one new mega-city called Idaho City. Ada and Canyon counties would be merged into City and County of Idaho City.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 08, 2022, 03:02:22 AM
consolidated to one new mega-city called Idaho City.
"I told him we already got one."
Quote from: GaryV on December 08, 2022, 07:09:21 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 08, 2022, 03:02:22 AM
consolidated to one new mega-city called Idaho City.
"I told him we already got one."
Then it could be just Boise.
Chicago's borders are quite awkward. So it would make sense to absord all small suburbs near Chicago to Chicago.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 13, 2022, 06:25:59 AM
Chicago's borders are quite awkward. So it would make sense to absord all small suburbs near Chicago to Chicago.
Why would it make sense?
Quote from: kirbykart on December 13, 2022, 08:31:29 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 13, 2022, 06:25:59 AM
Chicago's borders are quite awkward. So it would make sense to absord all small suburbs near Chicago to Chicago.
Why would it make sense?
To have fewer small suburbs.
I actually agree here. Look at New England, where municipalities have reasonable boundaries, annexing is impossible, and there are no enclaves or exclaves. It's much easier to determine which municipality you're in at any given time.
Cambridge, MA is considering banning right on red. If it had a shape like non-New England cities, it would be very hard to determine which intersections ban right on red if it passes (it hasn't yet) [correction: it has now].
Quote from: 1 on December 13, 2022, 08:40:35 AM
I actually agree here. Look at New England, where municipalities have reasonable boundaries, annexing is impossible, and there are no enclaves or exclaves. It's much easier to determine which municipality you're in at any given time.
Cambridge, MA is considering banning right on red. If it had a shape like non-New England cities, it would be very hard to determine which intersections ban right on red if it passes (it hasn't yet).
Every part of US should have municipalities similar sizes as New England.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 13, 2022, 08:54:30 AM
Quote from: 1 on December 13, 2022, 08:40:35 AM
I actually agree here. Look at New England, where municipalities have reasonable boundaries, annexing is impossible, and there are no enclaves or exclaves. It's much easier to determine which municipality you're in at any given time.
Cambridge, MA is considering banning right on red. If it had a shape like non-New England cities, it would be very hard to determine which intersections ban right on red if it passes (it hasn't yet).
Every part of US should have municipalities similar sizes as New England.
(https://east-usa.com/images/150-Nevada.jpg)
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 13, 2022, 08:54:30 AM
Every part of US should have municipalities similar sizes as New England.
States too. :banghead:
Quote from: GaryV on December 13, 2022, 09:01:23 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 13, 2022, 08:54:30 AM
Every part of US should have municipalities similar sizes as New England.
States too. :banghead:
I meant "
Every part of US should have municipalities similar sizes as in New England."
And I sarcastically replied that every area of the country should have states the same size as in New England. Obviously that's not true.
Your suggestion that all municipalities should be New England sized is flawed. I picked a town in MA - Plymouth. It's one of the larger ones in eastern MA. To make cities all the same size across the country, Los Angeles would have to be divided into 4 parts. Not gonna happen.
Quote from: GaryV on December 13, 2022, 10:23:09 AM
Your suggestion that all municipalities should be New England sized is flawed. I picked a town in MA - Plymouth. It's one of the larger ones in eastern MA. To make cities all the same size across the country, Los Angeles would have to be divided into 4 parts. Not gonna happen.
I could support the main city being 100-200 square miles in more spread-out areas that are urbanized, but still, they should be polygons or blob-shaped and not stringy or Swiss cheese, no unincorporated areas until you get to places where municipality populations would be in the low triple digits, and no "we (<1 sqmi) don't want to join with the city that surrounds us on all sides".
Quote from: 1 on December 13, 2022, 10:45:15 AM
Quote from: GaryV on December 13, 2022, 10:23:09 AM
Your suggestion that all municipalities should be New England sized is flawed. I picked a town in MA - Plymouth. It's one of the larger ones in eastern MA. To make cities all the same size across the country, Los Angeles would have to be divided into 4 parts. Not gonna happen.
I could support the main city being 100-200 square miles in more spread-out areas that are urbanized, but still, they should be polygons or blob-shaped and not stringy or Swiss cheese, no unincorporated areas until you get to places where municipality populations would be in the low triple digits, and no "we (<1 sqmi) don't want to join with the city that surrounds us on all sides".
100% of US should be divided into municipalities. They would be named "cities", "towns" and "townships".
^This is impractical in large open expanses of nothing, like you have throughout large portions of the West and Midwest.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 13, 2022, 08:31:56 AM
Quote from: kirbykart on December 13, 2022, 08:31:29 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 13, 2022, 06:25:59 AM
Chicago's borders are quite awkward. So it would make sense to absord all small suburbs near Chicago to Chicago.
Why would it make sense?
To have fewer small suburbs.
Why would that make sense?
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 13, 2022, 01:38:05 PM
100% of US should be divided into municipalities. They would be named "cities", "towns" and "townships".
I have a feeling they would actually be named "Jade" and "Sault Sainte John Madden" and "Troll".
Quote from: kphoger on December 13, 2022, 02:48:12 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 13, 2022, 08:31:56 AM
Quote from: kirbykart on December 13, 2022, 08:31:29 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 13, 2022, 06:25:59 AM
Chicago's borders are quite awkward. So it would make sense to absord all small suburbs near Chicago to Chicago.
Why would it make sense?
To have fewer small suburbs.
Why would that make sense?
Holes in a major city should be part of that city. Having e.g. a city of 244 people the size of a suburban block that for some reason is not part of what surrounds it makes no sense, and they should be merged. This tiny city needs its own schools, fire and police departments, city officials, law book that differs from the main city, etc., which makes things less efficient. In addition, it's not obvious when passing through that you're not in the main city – what if you want to report a pothole, downed power line, etc., and call the city, who has nothing to do with it? And if the tiny city skimps on maintaining things due to lack of funding since it's so small, that hurts everyone, even those who don't live there. And if it
doesn't lack funding, you basically have a city that relies on ticketing innocent people, and those shouldn't exist.
TL;DR: economies of scale
But only towns that are completely surrounded by the larger city? What about Evergreen Park, which is bounded by Chicago on three sides but not the fourth? Or what about Raytown, which isn't entirely surrounded by Kansas City, but only by a matter of 300 yards. What counts as a hole?
Quote from: 1 on December 13, 2022, 02:56:56 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 13, 2022, 02:48:12 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 13, 2022, 08:31:56 AM
Quote from: kirbykart on December 13, 2022, 08:31:29 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 13, 2022, 06:25:59 AM
Chicago's borders are quite awkward. So it would make sense to absord all small suburbs near Chicago to Chicago.
Why would it make sense?
To have fewer small suburbs.
Why would that make sense?
Holes in a major city should be part of that city. Having e.g. a city of 244 people the size of a suburban block that for some reason is not part of what surrounds it makes no sense, and they should be merged. This tiny city needs its own schools, fire and police departments, city officials, law book that differs from the main city, etc., which makes things less efficient. In addition, it's not obvious when passing through that you're not in the main city – what if you want to report a pothole, downed power line, etc., and call the city, who has nothing to do with it? And if the tiny city skimps on maintaining things due to lack of funding since it's so small, that hurts everyone, even those who don't live there. And if it doesn't lack funding, you basically have a city that relies on ticketing innocent people, and those shouldn't exist.
TL;DR: economies of scale
Highland Park is a "hole" in the middle of Detroit. And you know what? Detroit doesn't even want it.
I bet I can draw an area in Nevada that's the same size as a municipality in New England but has a population of 0.
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 13, 2022, 07:03:47 PM
I bet I can draw an area in Nevada that's the same size as a municipality in New England but has a population of 0.
You could probably draw 51 such areas.
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on December 13, 2022, 07:23:27 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 13, 2022, 07:03:47 PM
I bet I can draw an area in Nevada that's the same size as a municipality in New England but has a population of 0.
You could probably draw 51 such areas.
Depends on what you count in the 51st area. The census does include aliens, right?
Quote from: GaryV on December 14, 2022, 08:07:17 AM
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on December 13, 2022, 07:23:27 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 13, 2022, 07:03:47 PM
I bet I can draw an area in Nevada that's the same size as a municipality in New England but has a population of 0.
You could probably draw 51 such areas.
Depends on what you count in the 51st area. The census does include aliens, right?
Only if they respond.
Cities should not have holes. And Miami should be consolidated with Miami-Dade County, merging all suburbs to Miami.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 12, 2022, 03:24:46 AM
Some too small cities should be consolidated with county, such as Miami, which would then comprise entire Miami-Dade County.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 06, 2022, 05:34:01 AM
Miami should merge with all other cities in Miami-Dade County
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 03, 2022, 03:17:47 PM
Merge all other cities in Miami-Dade County into Miami.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on January 05, 2023, 01:31:10 PM
And Miami should be consolidated with Miami-Dade County, merging all suburbs to Miami.
Why do you post the same thing over and over again?
Quote from: kphoger on January 05, 2023, 01:40:18 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on October 12, 2022, 03:24:46 AM
Some too small cities should be consolidated with county, such as Miami, which would then comprise entire Miami-Dade County.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 06, 2022, 05:34:01 AM
Miami should merge with all other cities in Miami-Dade County
Quote from: Poiponen13 on December 03, 2022, 03:17:47 PM
Merge all other cities in Miami-Dade County into Miami.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on January 05, 2023, 01:31:10 PM
And Miami should be consolidated with Miami-Dade County, merging all suburbs to Miami.
Why do you post the same thing over and over again?
I want an opinion to this proposal (which should be implemented as soon as possible).
Quote from: Poiponen13 on January 05, 2023, 01:46:12 PM
I want an opinion to this proposal (which should be implemented as soon as possible).
Too bad. People don't have to answer you.
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=992.msg24507#msg24507
What's not allowed:
Duplicate posts/topics. Please use the search feature before you post!
Demanding that someone reply to your topic or post. Sorry, but you can't force people to be interested in commenting on what you said.
And I do realize that calling you out on forum guidelines is itself a violation of forum guidelines. I was being gracious by not demanding moderator involvement. If you (or the moderators) would prefer otherwise, then please let me know, and I'll just start reporting duplicate posts left and right whenever I notice them.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on January 05, 2023, 01:31:10 PM
Cities should not have holes.
Don't look at Albarracin, Spain then.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 22, 2022, 12:13:36 PM
Like Quebec Saint-Louis-du-Ha! Ha!, some places could have exclamation and questionmarks. Like:
Wait, this gives me an idea...
Behold!
(https://imgur.com/Wzh6Tpm.jpg)
Cities shall not cross county lines in any state.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 11:52:01 AM
Cities shall not cross county lines in any state.
I actually agree with this. Multicounty cities have never made much sense to me. And how do the city governments deal with being in 2 counties?
It seems to work in NYC.
Also there are instances in Michigan, Holland probably being the largest.
Quote from: GaryV on February 21, 2023, 11:54:01 AM
It seems to work in NYC.
Also there are instances in Michigan, Holland probably being the largest.
Well technically NYC is more like a collection of counties that form a city. I was more talking about like your Michigan example. No towns or cities are in multiple counties in Massachusetts.
Lots of multi-county cities in Wisconsin and Illinois.
Mike
I'd probably just merge some counties together in states where they're fairly small.
Something like this:
(https://i.imgur.com/HXQOkPS.png)
Quote from: kphoger on February 21, 2023, 12:49:07 PM
I'd probably just merge some counties together in states where they're fairly small.
Something like this:
(https://i.imgur.com/HXQOkPS.png)
I don't love the idea of merging big urban counties which already have lots of people with many small rural counties. And I don't love that county gore with Topeka stretching to the KC suburbs.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 01:01:34 PM
I don't love the idea of merging big urban counties which already have lots of people with many small rural counties. And I don't love that county gore with Topeka stretching to the KC suburbs.
Counties already have both urban areas and rural areas in them. For example, Sedgwick County has Wichita, but it also has Clearwater, Cheney, and Bentley. What problem do you foresee that you wouldn't like?
Why shouldn't Topeka's county extend to the edge of the KC suburbs? I chose that particular boundary precisely because Leavenworth County doesn't really have much "KC suburbs" in it at all–just Lansing, really, and that's pushing the definition of a suburb.
At any rate, it was a quick-and-dirty revamp. My point is just that I'd prefer larger counties like that.
Quote from: kphoger on February 21, 2023, 01:14:20 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 01:01:34 PM
I don't love the idea of merging big urban counties which already have lots of people with many small rural counties. And I don't love that county gore with Topeka stretching to the KC suburbs.
Counties already have both urban areas and rural areas in them. For example, Sedgwick County has Wichita, but it also has Clearwater, Cheney, and Bentley. What problem do you foresee that you wouldn't like?
Why shouldn't Topeka's county extend to the edge of the KC suburbs? I chose that particular boundary precisely because Leavenworth County doesn't really have much "KC suburbs" in it at all–just Lansing, really, and that's pushing the definition of a suburb.
At any rate, it was a quick-and-dirty revamp. My point is just that I'd prefer larger counties like that.
Wichita should be consolidated with Sedgwick County, creating city with many rural areas.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 01:29:00 PM
Wichita should be consolidated with Sedgwick County, creating city with many rural areas.
Sounds more like you're just getting rid of cities, but keeping counties.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on February 21, 2023, 11:53:06 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 11:52:01 AM
Cities shall not cross county lines in any state.
I actually agree with this. Multicounty cities have never made much sense to me. And how do the city governments deal with being in 2 counties?
It's not as difficult as you think. Aurora IL, while mostly in Kane County, does stretch into DuPage, Kendall and Will Counties.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 01:29:00 PM
Wichita should be consolidated with Sedgwick County, creating city with many rural areas.
Cities with many rural areas are a bad idea because the city has to choose one of two options:
1. The city is obliged to extend trash collection, water, and sewer services out into the rural areas, which is very expensive, so taxes have to be raised, which makes people angry.
2. The city instead decides to limit trash collection, water, and sewer services to only a subset of the city limits to limit expense. Everyone else has to either hire someone to pick up the trash or haul it away themselves, and install and maintain a well and septic system. Meanwhile they have to pay the same taxes everyone in the city does but get none of the benefits, which makes them angry.
But I don't expect you to say why it would be beneficial to put people through that, since that would take precious time away posting "I think [insert random phrase] should be done" and refusing to give any reason why.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 11:52:01 AM
Cities shall not cross county lines in any state.
This is perhaps the most sensible thing said by this user so far. Here in Spain municipalities don't stretch over a provincial border, they belong to one and only one province (then there's the weird cases of Murillo and Santa Eulalia de Gallego, which are in the province of Zaragoza but due to how the provincial border is drawn they receive some services, if not most, from Huesca, another provincial capital), and this is the case for everywhere in Europe as far as I know. So I don't know how those municipalities in the USA that stretch over a county line deal with more than one of their superiors, that seems like unnecesary duplication.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 22, 2023, 03:12:41 AM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 21, 2023, 01:29:00 PM
Wichita should be consolidated with Sedgwick County, creating city with many rural areas.
Cities with many rural areas are a bad idea because the city has to choose one of two options:
1. The city is obliged to extend trash collection, water, and sewer services out into the rural areas, which is very expensive, so taxes have to be raised, which makes people angry.
2. The city instead decides to limit trash collection, water, and sewer services to only a subset of the city limits to limit expense. Everyone else has to either hire someone to pick up the trash or haul it away themselves, and install and maintain a well and septic system. Meanwhile they have to pay the same taxes everyone in the city does but get none of the benefits, which makes them angry.
But I don't expect you to say why it would be beneficial to put people through that, since that would take precious time away posting "I think [insert random phrase] should be done" and refusing to give any reason why.
In China, there are cities with many rural areas.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 22, 2023, 12:52:58 PM
In China, there are cities with many rural areas.
How does that contradict anything he said?
Quote from: kphoger on February 22, 2023, 01:16:24 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 22, 2023, 12:52:58 PM
In China, there are cities with many rural areas.
How does that contradict anything he said?
What is in China, should also be in US.
The "cities with many rural areas" in China are equivalent to making Rhode Island a single city. These cities are also higher-level subdivisions.
If somehow Rhode Island became a single city, I imagine its 39 cities and towns would still have the same functions they do now, as it needs to be divided somehow.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 22, 2023, 01:25:30 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 22, 2023, 01:16:24 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 22, 2023, 12:52:58 PM
In China, there are cities with many rural areas.
How does that contradict anything he said?
What is in China, should also be in US.
That's your opinion. Fine. It still doesn't contradict anything he said.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 22, 2023, 01:25:30 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 22, 2023, 01:16:24 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 22, 2023, 12:52:58 PM
In China, there are cities with many rural areas.
How does that contradict anything he said?
What is in China, should also be in US.
What is in China should also be in Finland.
What is in US, should also be in Finland.
Quote from: 1 on February 22, 2023, 01:27:28 PM
The "cities with many rural areas" in China are equivalent to making Rhode Island a single city. These cities are also higher-level subdivisions.
If somehow Rhode Island became a single city, I imagine its 39 cities and towns would still have the same functions they do now, as it needs to be divided somehow.
Chinese prefecture-level cities are divided to districts, counties and county-level cities, which are divided to subdistricts, towns and townships, which are divided to villages and residential communities. There should be more county equivalents in US which are not counties.
There should be more brominated vegetable oil and red dye #40 in Finland.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 22, 2023, 09:21:49 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 22, 2023, 01:25:30 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 22, 2023, 01:16:24 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 22, 2023, 12:52:58 PM
In China, there are cities with many rural areas.
How does that contradict anything he said?
What is in China, should also be in US.
Why?
We have Panda Express. What else do we need?
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 22, 2023, 09:36:55 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 22, 2023, 09:21:49 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 22, 2023, 01:25:30 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 22, 2023, 01:16:24 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 22, 2023, 12:52:58 PM
In China, there are cities with many rural areas.
How does that contradict anything he said?
What is in China, should also be in US.
Why?
We have Panda Express. What else do we need?
Signs (all signs, not just road signs) in more than one language in areas where it would be useful. Higher density housing. Roads that don't cost ten times as much to build as the rest of the world. Lower-value coins being made of aluminum.
Quote from: 1 on February 23, 2023, 07:27:36 AM
Signs (all signs, not just road signs) in more than one language in areas where it would be useful.
Isn't it strange that China would have that? You know, the country that actively works to ensure nationwide conformity?
Howabout the city limit line of Moscow (as in 'Russia')?
Mike
Quote from: 1 on February 23, 2023, 07:27:36 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 22, 2023, 09:36:55 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 22, 2023, 09:21:49 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 22, 2023, 01:25:30 PM
Quote from: kphoger on February 22, 2023, 01:16:24 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 22, 2023, 12:52:58 PM
In China, there are cities with many rural areas.
How does that contradict anything he said?
What is in China, should also be in US.
Why?
We have Panda Express. What else do we need?
Signs (all signs, not just road signs) in more than one language in areas where it would be useful.
I see plenty of signs in Oklahoma in both English and Spanish. Just not road signs.
Atlanta should be consolidated city-county. The north and south Fulton County should revert to former counties.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on February 26, 2023, 11:09:45 AM
Atlanta should be consolidated city-county. The north and south Fulton County should revert to former counties.
I believe that Atlanta goes into DeKalb County as well. I have actually never liked the awkward shape of Fulton County.
Create a Uni-gov situation with St. Louis.
Absorb New York boroughs to single county. Abolish counties and municipalities in North Carolina and replace them by local government areas. Merge counties in Georgia and Kentucky.
How much independent government do the NYC boroughs have?
Quote from: Poiponen13 on March 01, 2023, 02:38:42 PM
Merge counties in Georgia and Kentucky.
Doesn't Tennessee kind of get in the way? :poke:
Quote from: GaryV on March 01, 2023, 03:25:30 PM
Quote from: Poiponen13 on March 01, 2023, 02:38:42 PM
Merge counties in Georgia and Kentucky.
Doesn't Tennessee kind of get in the way? :poke:
Just take Tennessee and push it somewhere else
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 03, 2022, 11:25:54 AM
Or a long 100% English name: Whitelakemountaincitynearhighwaywhichisverygoodandnearforest.
Reviving one of Poiponen's old city names. This is ridiculous.
https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/georgia-senate-votes-down-bill-to-create-buckhead-city (https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/georgia-senate-votes-down-bill-to-create-buckhead-city)
https://www.wabe.org/georgia-senators-reject-buckhead-efforts-to-leave-atlanta/ (https://www.wabe.org/georgia-senators-reject-buckhead-efforts-to-leave-atlanta/)
Here is one that has been floated around splitting Buckhead district from Atlanta is now rejected by the State of Georgia. Yes this is rife with how State resources are going to be allocated.
This idea is similar to when San Fernando Valley was planning to separate from Los Angeles City Proper but was rejected on the same grounds.
Back to the thread:
Separate city of Seattle from King County
Separate city of Chicago from Cook County
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 01, 2023, 03:16:09 PM
How much independent government do the NYC boroughs have?
Not as much as before:
https://www.gothamgazette.com/government/5645-26-years-since-the-board-of-estimates-demise#:~:text=On%20March%2022%2C%201989%2C%20the,political%20system%20we%20have%20today.
I would merge Philadelphia County into Montgomery County.
Merge all of the US counties into a singular county.
Quote from: Chrysler375Freeway on September 16, 2023, 09:48:59 PM
I would merge Philadelphia County into Montgomery County.
It would be awkward for a county government to manage both the city of Philadelphia and the suburbs outside Washington DC.
Quote from: algorerhythms on September 17, 2023, 12:34:23 AM
Quote from: Chrysler375Freeway on September 16, 2023, 09:48:59 PM
I would merge Philadelphia County into Montgomery County.
It would be awkward for a county government to manage both the city of Philadelphia and the suburbs outside Washington DC.
18 states have a Montgomery County. I think he means the one in Pennsylvania.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on September 16, 2023, 07:01:36 AM
Separate city of Seattle from King County
Just have to reorganize everything but the library system. Way too much of the governments are integrated.
Here are some changes I would propose to county borders, splits and merges. Today, I am only doing AL through LA.
AZ (+1):
1. The Navajo Nation area including the Hopi Tribe area within the Navajo Nation becomes Navajo County. Kayenta is the county seat.
2. The former part of Navajo County (Holbrook to Show Low) merges into Apache County. St Johns remains the county seat.
3. Coconino and Mohave Counties north of the Colorado River east to Desert View then a straight line east to the Navajo Nation boundary becomes a new county named Plateau County. Page becomes the county seat.
CA (+3):
1. Monterey County splits along an northeast-southwest line from Big Sur to Pinnacles National Park. Monterey County remains the name for the northern half. The southern half becomes Junipero County after the peak. King City becomes the county seat.
2. Riverside County splits along a north-south line on the Pacific Crest Trail. Riverside County remains the name west of the line. East of the line becomes Joshua County. Indio becomes the county seat.
3. San Bernardino County splits along the Pacific Crest Trail. San Bernardino County remains southwest of the trail. Northeast of the trail becomes Mojave County. Barstow becomes the county seat.
CO (-2):
1. Mineral County gets absorbed by Hinsdale County. Lake City remains the county seat.
2. Dolores County gets absorbed by San Miguel County. Telluride remains the county seat.
3. Baca County extends west into Las Animas County with the new north-south boundary continuing along the Bent-Otero County Line south to New Mexico. Kim is too far from Trinidad. Springfield remains the county seat.
CT (+1):
1. Fairfield County splits into a north and south section continuing the NY-CT line northeast to Housatonic River. Fairfield County remains the name for the southern half with Bridgeport as the county seat. North of that line becomes Samuel County named after Samuel Tweedy. Danbury becomes the county seat.
FL (-1):
1. Escambia County absorbs Santa Rose County. Pensacola is the county seat.
2. Monroe County and Miami Dade County lines change and form a 3rd county. Monroe County is only the Florida Keys as far east as Layton. Key West remains the county seat of Monroe. East of Layton, on the mainland south of 248th St, west of FL 997 and including the former parts of Monroe County becomes a new county named Everglades County. Homestead becomes the county seat.
3. Gilcrest County gets absorbed by Alachua County. Gainesville remains the county seat.
GA (-1):
1. Dade County gets absorbed into Walker County. Lafayette remains the county seat.
HI (+1):
1. Maui County splits with Lanai and Molokai Islnds becoming the new county named Kalohi County. Kaunaakakai becomes the county seat.
ID (-2):
1. Bonner County absorbs Boundary County. Bonners Ferry is the county seat.
2. Jerome County absorbs Lincoln County. Jerome remains the county seat.
IL (-2):
1. Cook County splits starting at the northeast corner of the Cook-DuPage county line, heading east to the Des Plaines River then north along the river to Lake-Cook county line. Cook County remains the south and east of the new boundary. North and west of the boundary becomes Dewar County (named after the inventor of the Twinkie). Arlington Heights becomes the new county seat.
2. Bureau County absorbs Putnam County. Princeton remains the county seat.
3. Alexander County absorbs Pulaski County. Mound City becomes the county seat.
4. Pope County absorbs Hardin County. Golconda remains the county seat.
IN (-2):
1. Parke County absorbs Vermillion County but keeps the Vermillion name. Rockville remains the county seat.
2. Dearborn County absorbs Ohio County. Lawrenceburg is the county seat.
IA (+1):
1. Kossuth County splits and Bancroft County is reformed. Bancroft becomes the county seat.
KS (-8):
1. Morton County absorbs Stevens County but the county seat becomes Hugoton.
2. Grant County absorbs Stanton County and Haskell County. Ulysses is the county seat.
3. Kiowa County aborbs Comanche County. Greensburg is the county seat.
4. Meade County absorbs Clark County. Meade is the county seat.
5. Hamilton County absorbs Kearny County. Syracuse is the county seat.
6. Greeley County absorbs Wichita County. Leoti becomes the county seat.
7. Pawnee County absorbs Edwards County. Kinsley becomes the county seat.
KY (-4):
1. Fulton County absorbs Hickman County. Clinton becomes the county seat.
2. Ballard County absorbs Carlisle County. Wickliffe is the county seat.
3. Trigg County absorbs Lyon County. Cadiz is the county seat.
4. Kenton County absorbs Campbell County. Independence remains the county seat.
5. Bracken County absorbs Robertson County. Brooksville is the county seat.
6. Pike County splits into 2 with th county boundary being the Levisa Fork River including Fishtrap Lake. Pike County remains north of the boundary. South of the boundary becomes Langley County named after Katherine Langley who was the first woman elected to Congress from KY. Elkhorn City becomes the county seat.
LA (-1):
1. The unattached part of St Martin Parish is absorbed into Assumption Parish.
2. East Feliciana and West Feliciana Parishes merge to become Feliciana Parish. Jackson becomes the county seat.
Next time, I will do ME through OR. The last section will be PA through WY.
Quote from: hobsini2 on September 24, 2023, 12:19:36 PM
IN (-2):
1. Parke County absorbs Vermillion County but keeps the Vermillion name. Rockville remains the county seat.
2. Dearborn County absorbs Ohio County. Lawrenceburg is the county seat.
I hadn't considered Parke/Vermillion before but I rather like it. These are the ones I'd previously suggested.
Switzerland and Ohio
Fayette and Union
Warren and Benton
Daviess and Martin
Crawford and Perry
Blackford and Jay
I remember years ago there was some talk about merging Pittsburgh and Allegheny County. As it stands now, Allegheny County has 130 individual municipalities, ranging from Pittsburgh (pop. 302,971) to Haysville (pop. 81). As far as I remember, it never went beyond just talk, though.
Quote from: hobsini2 on September 24, 2023, 12:19:36 PM
HI (+1):
1. Maui County splits with Lanai and Molokai Islnds becoming the new county named Kalohi County. Kaunaakakai becomes the county seat.
Molokai island is split, with most of it part of Maui County, but a small and low-population fragment comprises Kalawao County. That might change in the not-too-distant future, but be patient (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=7919.msg180578#msg180578).
Quote from: hobsini2 on September 24, 2023, 12:19:36 PM
FL (-1):
3. Gilcrest County (sic) gets absorbed by Alachua County. Gainesville remains the county seat.
Funny you should mention this one. Gilchrist was actually the most recent county to be established in Florida, having broken off from Alachua County in 1925 due to the locals' perception of a disproportionate influence in county matters from Gainesville. 100 years later, there's a grassroots campaign to do the same thing with the western half of present-day Alachua County for the same reason.
FWIW, I don't think the arguments by the Springs County movement (https://springscounty.com/) are strong enough to justify the logistical challenge of breaking up a county and its school district, highway department, etc. And their proposed eastern border is ridiculous.
A couple for Virginia:
1. Loudoun County would do well by splitting in two. The DC exurbs are culturally different from the more rural western half of the county. I would use US 15 as the dividing line. Western Loudoun County would assume the name "Blue Ridge County" in honor of the mountain range that runs through its western side. The county seat for BRC is in Purcellville.
2. I would incorporate Arlington as an independent city. Most locals think of it as a city anyway.
A few for Michigan:
Consolidate Lansing, East Lansing, and Lansing Township into one city, taking the name Lansing. The township is just several pieces of land. I would also add the unincorporated census designated places of Holt, Haslett, and Okemos to the city, as well as add the Eaton County CDP of Waverly to the larger city. Police services in Lansing Township are inefficient due to the piecemeal nature of this city, and would benefit from consolidation with the City of Lansing, and the city proper would also benefit from the money spent by students going to MSU if East Lansing was consolidated into the larger Lansing.
Consolidate the Grosse Pointe region, Redford Township, and the cities of River Rouge and Ecourse into the City of Detroit. A majority of Redford Township has been annexed by the city of Detroit anyway, and the wealthier residents of the Grosse Pointe region would add some more money to the city of Detroit. As for the cities of River Rouge and Ecorse: Ecorse fell into a financial emergency in 2008, and both cities because of their small size have a hard time providing some services.
Consolidate Kentwood, Grandville, Wyoming, Grand Rapids Township, East Grand Rapids, and the unincorporated CDPs of Cutlerville, Byron Center, Forest Hills, Northview, and Comstock Park into the city of Grand Rapids. The West Michigan region is growing, and the city will need more housing in the future as the city grows.
Quote from: Poiponen13 on November 22, 2022, 02:13:54 AMHow about city names that seem unpronounceable?
- Abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
- Qwertyuiopasdfghjklzxcvbnm
I guarantee that these would be pronounced /ˈæl.fə.bet/ and /ˈkwɝː.t̬i/, respectively.
Quote from: kphoger on June 06, 2025, 02:01:27 PMQuote from: Poiponen13 on November 22, 2022, 02:13:54 AMHow about city names that seem unpronounceable?
- Abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
- Qwertyuiopasdfghjklzxcvbnm
I guarantee that these would be pronounced /ˈæl.fə.bet/ and /ˈkwɝː.t̬i/, respectively.
Or Big Bird trying to pronounce the first one on Sesame Street.
Qwertyuiopasdfghjklzxcvbnm would be known as Qwertyuiopasdfghjklñzxcvbnm in Spanish, Azertyuiopqsdfghjklmwxcvbn in French (at least in La France) and Qwertzuiopüasdfghjklöäyxcvbnm in German :bigass:.
Quote from: The Nature Boy on September 24, 2023, 11:27:18 PM2. I would incorporate Arlington as an independent city. Most locals think of it as a city anyway.
I'm also shocked that this hasn't been done already, since Arlington has been treated as a city instead of a county in all editions of the Rand McNally atlas. So seconded on the idea of making it an independent city similar to Alexandria, but why stop there? FWIW, we could call them the Twin A's!
Quote from: Chrysler375Freeway on September 26, 2023, 12:48:59 AMA few for Michigan:
Consolidate Lansing, East Lansing, and Lansing Township into one city, taking the name Lansing. The township is just several pieces of land. I would also add the unincorporated census designated places of Holt, Haslett, and Okemos to the city, as well as add the Eaton County CDP of Waverly to the larger city. Police services in Lansing Township are inefficient due to the piecemeal nature of this city, and would benefit from consolidation with the City of Lansing, and the city proper would also benefit from the money spent by students going to MSU if East Lansing was consolidated into the larger Lansing.
Consolidate the Grosse Pointe region, Redford Township, and the cities of River Rouge and Ecourse into the City of Detroit. A majority of Redford Township has been annexed by the city of Detroit anyway, and the wealthier residents of the Grosse Pointe region would add some more money to the city of Detroit. As for the cities of River Rouge and Ecorse: Ecorse fell into a financial emergency in 2008, and both cities because of their small size have a hard time providing some services.
Consolidate Kentwood, Grandville, Wyoming, Grand Rapids Township, East Grand Rapids, and the unincorporated CDPs of Cutlerville, Byron Center, Forest Hills, Northview, and Comstock Park into the city of Grand Rapids. The West Michigan region is growing, and the city will need more housing in the future as the city grows.
Having spent significant time in both East Lansing and East Grand Rapids, I'm quite certain that neither would have an interest in merging with their namesakes.
I just did a makeover for Wisconsin. 72 to 64 counties remain. Some name changes and county seat changes.
Here is the list (County merges in green, county name changes in blue, county seat changes in yellow):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1r2cTe89Mdty1bcqnwy9zbSDaEqs6SmdqLEeOKJ93gok/edit?usp=sharing
Counties that are gone by merging:
Calumet, Forest, Green Lake, Iowa, Iron, Kewaunee, Pepin, Washington
Quote from: hobsini2 on June 07, 2025, 02:41:12 PMI just did a makeover for Wisconsin. 72 to 64 counties remain. Some name changes and county seat changes.
Here is the list (County merges in green, county name changes in blue, county seat changes in yellow):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1r2cTe89Mdty1bcqnwy9zbSDaEqs6SmdqLEeOKJ93gok/edit?usp=sharing
Counties that are gone by merging:
Calumet, Forest, Green Lake, Iowa, Iron, Kewaunee, Pepin, Washington
I would merge Calumet, Outagamie and Winnebago counties into one, county seat to be in an amalgamated metro Appleton muni.
I would also merge Milwaukee, Ozaukee, Washington and Waukesha counties into one, county seat to be an amalgamated metro-wide muni.
Merge Chippewa and Eau Claire counties?
Mike
Mike