For those that may not have seen the US 31 Hamilton County web site, this is the URL: http://us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/interchanges.html (http://us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/interchanges.html).
The site shows the preliminary interchange designs of which many are pretty interesting. The best ones are at the 146th St area, 136th Street, and at I-465, IMO. The first interchange work begins in 2011 at SR 38 so ironically, Hamilton County will have the first section of upgraded US 31 open over Kokomo and South Bend despite starting three years later. Also bridge widening at 146th Street begins next year. 2012 should bring the added travel lanes from 96th Street to 216th Street as well according to the most recent INDOT contract letting page. How that will be handled where the road is being rerouted (for example, at SR 32) will be interesting.
My comments:
* Meridian Street (shown as US 31 on the map) at 96th Street: 9 lanes for one side of Meridan (if I'm reading the map right; could use a better zoom)? I think that intersection is reaching the point where it would be better to go ahead and try and shift 96th north slightly and grade separate it. The FEIS mentions a Michigan left for SB to EB at this intersection (Chapter 2, page 22.36), but I don't see it on the maps
* Given the high number of triple lane turns required along I-465 in that area (two at US 31, one at US 421, can't tell right now from the aerial if there are any at Keystone) INDOT really should be looking at another interchange on I-465 somewhere (Ditch Road perhaps?)
* Probably should be a grade separation for 103rd Street instead of trying to cram everyone through on 106th Street. Yeah, I known, cost issues, but Chapter 2 of the FEIS seems to indicate capacity concerns for 106th Street on Page 30/36.
* 106th Street looks like a good candidate for a double crossover diamond, but I would like to at least see a SPUI evaluated.
* At least from just looking through the interchange maps, doesn't look like INDOT really evaluated too many alternative designs.
* Given the length of the project, IMHO the road should be designed for a 65 mph speed limit, or at least for 65 mph north of 146th Street, not 55 all the way as stated in the FAQ. Sure given Indiana's poor speed limit legislation it probably couldn't be posted that high to start with, but I though US 31 was eventually planned as an interstate route up to South Bend?
Quote from: Revive 755 on December 20, 2010, 12:27:46 AM
My comments:* Given the high number of triple lane turns required along I-465 in that area (two at US 31, one at US 421, can't tell right now from the aerial if there are any at Keystone) INDOT really should be looking at another interchange on I-465 somewhere (Ditch Road perhaps?)
* Given the length of the project, IMHO the road should be designed for a 65 mph speed limit, or at least for 65 mph north of 146th Street, not 55 all the way as stated in the FAQ. Sure given Indiana's poor speed limit legislation it probably couldn't be posted that high to start with, but I though US 31 was eventually planned as an interstate route up to South Bend?
My guess is that converting 31 to limited access and eliminating the stoplights at the 31/465 interchange would reduce the amount of traffic using Michigan, Keystone, or Allisonville as alternatives. I pass through this area several times per year. Right now, I'm taking 465 to Keystone to 31, but once this project is completed, I'll take 465 to 31. I would think a lot of others will do the same.
As for the speed limit, I think the density of southern Hamilton County will keep the speed limit at 55 even after becoming limited-access.
Quote from: cabiness42 on December 20, 2010, 08:45:20 AM
Quote from: Revive 755 on December 20, 2010, 12:27:46 AM
My comments:* Given the high number of triple lane turns required along I-465 in that area (two at US 31, one at US 421, can't tell right now from the aerial if there are any at Keystone) INDOT really should be looking at another interchange on I-465 somewhere (Ditch Road perhaps?)
* Given the length of the project, IMHO the road should be designed for a 65 mph speed limit, or at least for 65 mph north of 146th Street, not 55 all the way as stated in the FAQ. Sure given Indiana's poor speed limit legislation it probably couldn't be posted that high to start with, but I though US 31 was eventually planned as an interstate route up to South Bend?
My guess is that converting 31 to limited access and eliminating the stoplights at the 31/465 interchange would reduce the amount of traffic using Michigan, Keystone, or Allisonville as alternatives. I pass through this area several times per year. Right now, I'm taking 465 to Keystone to 31, but once this project is completed, I'll take 465 to 31. I would think a lot of others will do the same.
As for the speed limit, I think the density of southern Hamilton County will keep the speed limit at 55 even after becoming limited-access.
I don't understand why the density in Carmel would keep it limited to 55 while I-69 in Fishers is 65 heading North.
The cities of Carmel and Fishers may be equally dense, but the density of interchanges on the roads will be very different:
31 will have its seventh interchange less than six miles from 465. 69 gets to mile marker 14 before seeing its seventh interchange, so I think different speed limits are justified.
However, on my limited experience with 69, I'd argue that the last 4-5 miles of it should have a lower speed limit before arguing that the limit on 31 should be higher.
Quote from: cabiness42 on December 20, 2010, 01:05:24 PM
The cities of Carmel and Fishers may be equally dense, but the density of interchanges on the roads will be very different:
31 will have its seventh interchange less than six miles from 465. 69 gets to mile marker 14 before seeing its seventh interchange, so I think different speed limits are justified.
However, on my limited experience with 69, I'd argue that the last 4-5 miles of it should have a lower speed limit before arguing that the limit on 31 should be higher.
I think you are right on. Keystone Parkway has a speed limit of 50 MPH, and as you said, that is a decent alternative even with the two remaining traffic lights. A 55 mile an hour US 31 freeway would be fine with the large number of interchanges planned. After all, I-465 officially carries a 55 MPH limit, and it should not be higher than that. 55 usually means 65 and a posted 65 MPH limit would mean something over 70 which would be too fast IMO.
I-405 in Los Angeles has a lot of closely spaced interchanges, and a speed limit of 65. Same with US-101 in the Bay Area, and countless others.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 20, 2010, 03:52:03 PM
I-405 in Los Angeles has a lot of closely spaced interchanges, and a speed limit of 65. Same with US-101 in the Bay Area, and countless others.
I think I-8 west in San Diego has a 65 MPH limit as well, but I don't think it is necessarily correct with the myriad of exits and entrances. One exit I remember (Moreno St.?) had a ton of accidents from my personal experience of being stuck in traffic. Michigan has 70 MPH speed limits through cities. On some roads like M-6, it is fine, but other freeways in the Detroit area are pretty scary. It is a mix of opinion, design of the highway, and prevailing driving habits as to what speed limit makes sense. In defense of San Diegans, at least, they are more courteous than Chicago or Boston drivers for example so slightly higher speed limits work.
Quote from: mukade on December 19, 2010, 08:20:20 PM
For those that may not have seen the US 31 Hamilton County web site, this is the URL: http://us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/interchanges.html (http://us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/interchanges.html).
The site shows the preliminary interchange designs of which many are pretty interesting. The best ones are at the 146th St area, 136th Street, and at I-465, IMO. The first interchange work begins in 2011 at SR 38 so ironically, Hamilton County will have the first section of upgraded US 31 open over Kokomo and South Bend despite starting three years later. Also bridge widening at 146th Street begins next year. 2012 should bring the added travel lanes from 96th Street to 216th Street as well according to the most recent INDOT contract letting page. How that will be handled where the road is being rerouted (for example, at SR 32) will be interesting.
First U.S. 31 Hamilton County Contract Awarded: http://www.in.gov/portal/news_events/67108.htm (http://www.in.gov/portal/news_events/67108.htm)
U.S. 31 due for two new interchanges next year (http://www.indystar.com/article/20111103/LOCAL01/111103020/U-S-31-due-two-new-interchanges-next-year?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CIndyStar.com) (Indy Star)
This will make travel interesting for a while in that congested area in Carmel and Westfield.
I'd better get out there and extensively photograph the Keystone Parkway intersection before construction begins. I've been meaning to do it for a couple years now -- document US 31's original Rangeline Road/Westfield Blvd. route into Indianapolis. Today, SB on 31 at that light, you can see how Rangeline is on the same line as 31 at that point, before modern 31 veers right and Keystone veers left.
Quote from: mobilene on November 04, 2011, 07:44:03 PM
I'd better get out there and extensively photograph the Keystone Parkway intersection before construction begins. I've been meaning to do it for a couple years now -- document US 31's original Rangeline Road/Westfield Blvd. route into Indianapolis. Today, SB on 31 at that light, you can see how Rangeline is on the same line as 31 at that point, before modern 31 veers right and Keystone veers left.
Good idea. The new interchange configuration looks pretty radical compared to what is there now. It seems difficult to believe it will all fit in the limited land available, but I guess it will.
146th St./Clay Terrace (http://www.us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/assets/images/maps/b_rangeline_146.jpg)
151st St. and north (http://www.us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/assets/images/maps/b_146_union.jpg)
Quote from: mukade on December 20, 2010, 04:55:13 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 20, 2010, 03:52:03 PM
I-405 in Los Angeles has a lot of closely spaced interchanges, and a speed limit of 65. Same with US-101 in the Bay Area, and countless others.
I think I-8 west in San Diego has a 65 MPH limit as well, but I don't think it is necessarily correct with the myriad of exits and entrances. One exit I remember (Moreno St.?) had a ton of accidents from my personal experience of being stuck in traffic. Michigan has 70 MPH speed limits through cities. On some roads like M-6, it is fine, but other freeways in the Detroit area are pretty scary. It is a mix of opinion, design of the highway, and prevailing driving habits as to what speed limit makes sense. In defense of San Diegans, at least, they are more courteous than Chicago or Boston drivers for example so slightly higher speed limits work.
I-196 through Grand Rapids is 65 (even the just-redone part east of 131) while US-31 through Muskegon is 70. And I would consider M-6 to be more rural than urban.
As work begins in the 146th/151st St area along US 31, the governor wants to speed up the construction, according to this very recent article.
http://www.indystar.com/article/20120307/NEWS05/120307041/Daniels-wants-close-U-S-31-upgrade-north-Indy?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|IndyStar.com|s (http://www.indystar.com/article/20120307/NEWS05/120307041/Daniels-wants-close-U-S-31-upgrade-north-Indy?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CIndyStar.com%7Cs)
How Indiana is moving the construction up.
http://www.in.gov/activecalendar/EventList.aspx?view=EventDetails&eventidn=54271&information_id=108870&type=&syndicate=syndicate
US 31 Hamilton County news:
U.S. 31 delays start in Carmel in April (http://www.indianaeconomicdigest.net/main.asp?FromHome=1&TypeID=1&ArticleID=64525&SectionID=31&SubSectionID=202)
Major road changes coming to Clay Terrace area in Hamilton County (http://www.wthr.com/story/17282608/major-road-changes-coming-to-clay-terrace-area-in-hamilton-county?clienttype=printable)
Man, do I need to get out there and document the way it is now. As it all stands, you can still sort of tell that US 31 SB at the Keystone split used to follow what is now Rangeline Road. The drawings I've seen will make that historic link harder to discern when the project is over.
I placed an article about this project on the I-465/I-69 northeast thread, but I think it is more apporpriate here, about the proposed roundabout interchange at Keystone and 96th just north of Interstate 465. Basically, this project is being put on hold for the time being, which means it likely won't be finished for it be be viable for the proposed "hyperfix" construction on US 31 in a few years (which will make Keystone Parkway) the official detour while 31 is under construction. The MPO has their own reasons for shelving this for now, although I wouldn't be surprised if the fact that there are numerous construction projects going on the North side this summer (thank God I don't live up north right now) and that US 31 will be a mess for several years, that and to "think" about it some more for those businesses that that might get axed with the project.
http://www.indystar.com/article/20120601/LOCAL0101/120601023/A-roundabout-style-96th-Keystone-Not-quick?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CIndyStar.com
That is good it is being shelved. As a non-Hamilton County resident, I would not be be happy to see a brand new (less than one year old), very expensive Keystone upgrade torn up for an interchange period. To me, that would be pure waste. I wonder why this wasn't suggested before the I-465/Keystone interchange upgrade.
Other parts of the state have needs as well. This would be the sort of thing that would drive accusations of favoritism (justafiably).
I have to agree with the mayor of Carmel on this one; it would be a perfect detour for US 31 traffic. Too bad the rest of the state can't keep of up with Carmel. One question, what about the light at 98th street?
Well, the only problem with that statement is that the state paid for most of it, not Carmel. INDOT gave $90M to the city for the Keystone Pkwy. Any city or county which would get that amount of money could do good things, but I don't think that type of money is available any longer.
Unless they allowed trucks on it, it would not be a perfect detour, and it was not built for heavy truck traffic. It would sure help for cars, though.
From what I read before, the 98th Street light would also go.
I thought I heard that trucks would have been allowed on Keystone while US 31 was closed, temporarily of course. And going a few posts up, as a Southsider of Indy, I have had those thoughts of favoritism that INDOT and the city have favored the North side over the South side for years, justifiable perhaps though. At least we will finally get I-465 and I-65 down south fixed in a year or so, after Exit 5 on I-69 is rebuilt of course.
The new flyover ramp from US 31 southbound to Keystone Parkway is now open
INDOT opens new US 31 ramp to Keystone Parkway (http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-indot-opens-new-us-31-ramp-to-keystone-parkway-20120703,0,520767.column)
I went down US 31 in Hamilton County for the first time in a while. The amount of work done at Keystone Pkwy and Clay Terrace/Range Line Rd. is pretty impressive with the new ramp open. What surprised me is the amount of demolition going on. It seems that every building on the west side of US 31 except Target is in the process of being knocked down from Greyhound Pass to 161st St. Additionally, the fairly new Comfort Inn at SR 32 is now closed and stores around SR 32 are going out of business.
US 31 southbound over SR 38 now has bridge beams in place, but it looks like that interchange has a ways to go.
If you look at the current INDOT letting list (http://www.in.gov/indot/div/lettings/18MonthsConstLettingDetails_Ext.pdf (http://www.in.gov/indot/div/lettings/18MonthsConstLettingDetails_Ext.pdf), is contract IR-34750 which is scheduled to be let on 10/31/12, the entire remaining part of the Hamilton County upgrade of US 31? Has it been announced whether or not they plan to close US 31 during construction?
The only part of the highway that will be closed completely during the construction is the part from Old Meridian Street north to 136th Street, and that's not for another three years I think. The rest of the highway should be opened during the construction, but it will likely be a similar deal as with the SR 38 interchange where it's only one-way in each direction. I am curious about the businesses to the west of US 31 there in the Greyhound Pass area, I think most of them were resturants, are they relocating elsewhere in Carmel/Westfield?
The only restaurant I saw ready for demolition was Wendy's. There are two banks and a Goodwill store as well, plus a ton of houses north of Target. Target is losing some of its parking lot.
At SR 32, McDonald's and Taco Bell (and presumably Hardee's) will go, but I am not sure when. I am not sure what will happen to McDonald's at 151st - I heard that is one of the busiest ones in the Indy region.
Anybody have any pictures of us31 & sr38?
There are two projects underway currently. In addition, demolition is going on from 161st St. to Greyhound Pass. The following is a picture from the southern construction area.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhighwayexplorer.com%2FPhotos%2FIntchg%2FUS31--KeystonePkwy-1.jpg&hash=adc9ac010f95fa6635bb842adaa2e9692d55d8ef)
Ramp from US 31 southbound to Keystone Pkwy.
So once the three big projects are complete on US-31. How many more projects would be required to bring US-31 to Interstate standards the whole way from Indy to South Bend? Would it be easy one's like US-71 to I-49 in Missouri or more Hamilton County US-31's? This project is important to the whole state and region as Kokomo has the huge Chrysler transmission plants and the quicker they can get market ,the better chance for keeping plants in the USA. Plus gives me a better route to go see the UP of Michigan.
I agree this freeway is important - as important to the state as I-69 is, IMO as South Bend metro area is bigger than Evansville metro. Unfortunately, there are sections with a lot of driveway accesses so that will require either a new route (even if like they are proposing for US 31 around SR 32) or a lot of demolition. Those areas are off and on from north of SR 38 to the Peru cutoff. North of there, it is by and large a limited access highway.
I would say these are the logical remaining sections (north to south):
- US 30 to SR 10 (Plymoth to Argos) - no existing stoplights and presumably two interchanges would be needed
- SR 10 to SR 25 (Argos to Rochester) - no existing stoplights and presumably one interchange required at SR 110
- SR 25 to US 24 (Rochester to Peru) - Rochester already has an interchange with SR 25 and SR 14 crosses over US 31. This section has one stoplight just north of US 24 and presumably one or two interchanges would be needed
- US 24 to SR 218 (Peru to Grissom ARB) - US 24 at US 31 is a big cloverleaf that was built in 2001 - there are stoplights at BR 31 and SR 218 with a lot of driveway accesses. Presumably three interchanges would be needed
- SR 218 to US 35 (Grissom ARB to Cassville) - there is a stoplight at SR 18 and presumably that would be the only interchange
- Tipton County CR 600N to SR 28 - there are stoplights at Tipton County Division Rd. and SR 28 and presumably only one interchange would be required
- SR 28 to SR 38 - there is a stoplight at 236th St. (old SR 47) where an interchange would be needed
So there will be 7 stoplights remaining (down from around 40) when the three current sections are completed, and I would guess ten interchanges would need to be built. North of US 24 is sparsely populated so maybe less overpasses and more cul-de-sacs would be built.
when all the current work is finished, the drive will be so much better, the gaps won't be so bad, i hope that they fix these in the next 20- 30 yrs.
As someone who drives from Louisville to South Bend frequently, I can say that 6-laning I-65 from Greenwood to Sellersburg would go a lot farther toward cutting travel times than finishing off the rural sections of US 31. I'd much rather see the money to go I-65 first.
I assume they would split the difference. I think they will want to do the most dangerous intersections on US 31 like SR 28 and SR 18. At the same time, slowly widen I-65 southward from Indy and NW Indiana. How far does the six-laning go north from Louisville? Memphis?
They also need to incrementally widen I-70 and build I-69. All these add up to serious money.
Drove through this area on my way back from up north earlier this evening and saw vacant buildings on the west side from 151st to Greyhound Pass. I also saw some clearing work being done from 151st north to (I assume) 161st Street. I suppose that has to do with the fact that the highway is being widened to six lanes, and general ROW stuff. Took the bridge from US 31 to Keystone and noticed that the bridge seemed a bit high, or maybe that was just compared to what was there.
Going along the entire US 31 corridor, I agree with everything said above about what would be needed to make this corridor a freeway. I also agree that I-65 should be six lanes from Greenwood to Sellersburg. I also think I-70 could be six-lanes across the state, but I'm probably asking for too much.
From 161st to SR 32, the road also will follow a new path which is slightly west of the existing one to avoid the Westfield schools.
As far as what INDOT will do, I think the commitments beyond current projects are only I-69 and I-70.
Quote from: mukade on August 12, 2012, 09:49:01 PM
From 161st to SR 32, the road also will follow a new path which is slightly west of the existing one to avoid the Westfield schools.
As far as what INDOT will do, I think the commitments beyond current projects are only I-69 and I-70.
So will the old routing of 31 will be removed?
Quote from: mukade on August 12, 2012, 09:32:35 PM
I assume they would split the difference. I think they will want to do the most dangerous intersections on US 31 like SR 28 and SR 18. At the same time, slowly widen I-65 southward from Indy and NW Indiana. How far does the six-laning go north from Louisville? Memphis?
They also need to incrementally widen I-70 and build I-69. All these add up to serious money.
It doesn't even go to Memphis. The six lane section ends at Sellersburg (Exit 9).
I have seen long range plans to bring I-65 to six lanes up to the Memphis area.
Quote from: ShawnP on August 13, 2012, 10:37:23 PM
I have seen long range plans to bring I-65 to six lanes up to the Memphis area.
So long range plans cover less than 10% of the remaining 2-lane section? I can't wait for 10 years down the road when my drive will get one minute shorter.
I think there are also plans going south from Indy (i.e. Greenwood) in the not too-distant future. I think I read somewhere it would be to Franklin.
The US 31/SR 38 interchange project is wrapping up it seems, and also the article confirms the remainder of US 31 work in Hamilton County will be let as a single project later this year to open in 2015.
INDOT: U.S. 31/SR 38 traffic shift (http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/traffic/indot-us-31-sr-38-traffic-shift) (WISH TV)
Quote from: mukade on August 12, 2012, 12:47:51 PM
- US 24 to SR 218 (Peru to Grissom ARB) - US 24 at US 31 is a big cloverleaf that was built in 2001 - there are stoplights at BR 31 and SR 218 with a lot of driveway accesses.
The cloverleaf was COMPLETED in 2001, before this, US 24 expressway ended here, in a partial cloverleaf which had the ramps for the unbuilt western direction graded, but not paved. US 24 followed US 31 south to the (now) old US 24 two lane to get to Wabash. The Peru east section US 24 expressway was open to traffic by the early 1980s.
Quote from: tvketchum on September 16, 2012, 08:31:49 PM
Quote from: mukade on August 12, 2012, 12:47:51 PM
- US 24 to SR 218 (Peru to Grissom ARB) - US 24 at US 31 is a big cloverleaf that was built in 2001 - there are stoplights at BR 31 and SR 218 with a lot of driveway accesses.
The cloverleaf was COMPLETED in 2001, before this, US 24 expressway ended here, and followed US 31 south the (now) old US 24 two lane to get to Wabash. The Peru east section US 24 expressway was open to traffic by the early 1980s.
Yes, the partial interchange existed before then, but it was completely rebuilt in 2001 - all ramps and even US 31.
Quote from: mukade on July 29, 2012, 06:42:20 PMIf you look at the current INDOT letting list (http://www.in.gov/indot/div/lettings/18MonthsConstLettingDetails_Ext.pdf (http://www.in.gov/indot/div/lettings/18MonthsConstLettingDetails_Ext.pdf), is contract IR-34750 which is scheduled to be let on 10/31/12, the entire remaining part of the Hamilton County upgrade of US 31?
This project has now been advertised for a letting on November 15. The plans and CIB distribution aggregate to 70 files and 1.87 GB, and is by far the largest I have seen for any Indiana DOT project since I began downloading them in 2006. I count 131 sign panel detail and sign elevation sheets (all pattern-accurate) for the permanent signing, and about 10 pattern-accurate sign detail sheets for maintenance of traffic through construction.
I looked for plans for that contract when tindy88 found the I-69/SR 37 Bloomington interchange plans, but did not see them. Thanks for the heads up!
The two big questions I had were:
1) would US 31 exits be numbered? Yes!! (unlike US 31 at SR 38 which is currently under construction)
2) what is the control city on I-465? Kokomo and Westfield. I expected South Bend.
Should be Kokomo and South Bend, who cares about Westfield. I know, Westfield is a decent sized town, but they can put an auxilary sign approaching the exit just as they have with Carmel near Exit 33. If Carmel ain't going to be on a BGS, neither should Westfield, my two cents. Add on top of that the fact that Westfield isn't even (I think) mentioned for the signage at SR 32, skipped for Lebanon and Noblesville instead. :banghead:
Mukade--you are welcome.
Regarding control points: what South Bend, Kokomo, Lebanon, and Noblesville have in common is that they are all county seats, while Carmel and Westfield are not. I don't know if status as a county seat factors into Indiana DOT's control point choices as it does in Kansas DOT's, but if it does, this is an additional reason the choice of Westfield for US 31 off I-465 is unexpected. I wonder if it has something to do with the US 31/Keystone Parkway split being almost in Westfield.
(Speaking of the Keystone Parkway, the StreetView imagery still shows traffic signals at major intersections but the mapping shows them as grade separations with dumbbell roundabouts. I want to find out who handled these upgrades and see if I can get hold of construction plans.)
As far as I know, Carmel did the upgrades to Keystone Parkway, that is about as much as I know about that. As for the county seat thing, it depends on the highway and the location of the interchange. It's really just what good-sized communities are there near the exit, if they are county seats then those are used, but not always. The SR 38 interchange uses Sheridan and Noblesville (as opposed to say using Frankfort and Noblesville.) As for the SR 32 interchange, I think Lebanon and Noblesville are appropriate, I just think that Westfield should be in there. And don't give me anything about having only two control cities, the interchanges for US 30, SR 46 and US 50 off of I-65 use three controls, so it's not a problem. Granted, I'm thinking a little too much into this.
I don't think county seats matter for control cities in Indiana. Gary, Michigan City, and Kendallville are three examples of control cities that come to mind that are not county seats. The theory for Westfield being selected because it is where Keystone Pkwy joins US 31 actually makes sense. I think INDOT still maintains Keystone for about a quarter of a mile past US 31 so it probably is technically SR 431 for that short distance.
I agree with tindy88 that Carmel built Keystone Pkwy, but the majority of the money ($90M) came from INDOT's Major Moves pot. I do have pictures of the signage if you want to see what it actually looks like, but it is certainly not up to INDOT's standards. The traffic flows very well on the road even though it is only two lanes in each direction and the speed limit is 50 MPH.
There are plans to put one of those tear drop roundabouts at 96th and Keystone
Quote from: silverback1065 on September 22, 2012, 10:34:44 PM
There are plans to put one of those tear drop roundabouts at 96th and Keystone
Maybe.
A roundabout-style 96th and Keystone? Not so quick (http://www.indystar.com/article/20120601/LOCAL0101/120601023/A-roundabout-style-96th-Keystone-Not-quick)
I went past the US 31/SR 38 interchange for the first time in a month. Both directions are in their proper carriageways now, and SR 38 is open underneath US 31. When some final paving and striping on mainline US 31 is completed, it should be ready. Even the signage seems to be mostly in place.
At Keystone Parkway, progress has been very rapid. The highway does not resemble the way it looked back in June. The southbound ramp to Keystone is open (as reported before), and the northbound ramp is coming along nicely. The southbound part of the Clay Terrace/Rangleline Rd. interchange is open.
Between Keystone and SR 38, many businesses have been shut down in preparation for demolition. Others still remain open. Many houses and businesses have already been torn down.
And another stoplight on Keystone bites the dust.
http://www.indystar.com/article/20120924/NEWS/120924022/One-more-Keystone-Parkway-traffic-signal-disappear?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CIndyStar.com&nclick_check=1
Two more roundabout interchanges now on the books for US 31 in Hamilton County.
http://www.indystar.com/article/20121010/LOCAL0101/121010025/INDOT-agrees-roundabout-interchanges-along-U-S-31-Carmel-?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CCommunities&nclick_check=1
Fun fact from the article:
Quote
Carmel already is home to 75 roundabouts, more than any other city in America, and there are plans to add more than 30 in the future.
I'm not sure when it actually opened, but the US 31 interchange at SR 38 is fully open. It was a bit surprising to me tha INDOT reopened two cross-streets on US 31 (216th and 203rd, I think). It would have been nice to see them closed off permanently. Despite this rebuilt section having enhanced reference mile markers, the BG signs have no exit number tabs (yet).
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhighwayexplorer.com%2FPhotos%2FTemp%2FUS31--SR38-3.jpg&hash=ba2dac56b38a6b094685fdcef8af5aec9216c4a8)
Northbound US 31. Note no exit number tabs yet
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhighwayexplorer.com%2FPhotos%2FTemp%2FUS31--SR38-4.jpg&hash=6ba89e4000c83b89a7d53ebf5f95970447d15672)
Northbound control city is Kokomo
No signals on SR 38? Interesting
Quote from: mukade on November 11, 2012, 07:50:53 AM
BG signs have no exit number tabs (yet).
Will they have exit number tabs? The existing portion of US-31 freeway in Indiana, the St. Joseph Valley Parkway, has no exit numbers. I agree that there should be exit numbers, but INDOT apparently doesn't.
The Kokomo Bypass has exit numbers: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4862.msg181448#msg181448
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhighwayexplorer.com%2FPhotos%2FTemp%2FUS31Const--Kokomo-6.jpg&hash=6f573555630ca98a09917c8d7808c925f6fa8e87)
Quote from: theline on November 11, 2012, 11:08:52 PM
Quote from: mukade on November 11, 2012, 07:50:53 AM
BG signs have no exit number tabs (yet).
Will they have exit number tabs? The existing portion of US-31 freeway in Indiana, the St. Joseph Valley Parkway, has no exit numbers. I agree that there should be exit numbers, but INDOT apparently doesn't.
Online INDOT plans show exit tabs in Hamilton county - including approaching SR 38.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhighwayexplorer.com%2FPhotos%2FTemp%2FSR38Sign-1.jpg&hash=0041bafb78ffca25f4b37804f42332ae6e13afeb)
Funny thing though.... SR 38 should be exit 135.
According to the signage plans for US 31 however, they show the Old Meridian Street slip ramp as being Exit 135, not sure if southbound has one since 116th Street is Exit 134 and presumably 136th Street is Exit 136.
Quote from: tdindy88 on November 12, 2012, 11:23:23 AM
According to the signage plans for US 31 however, they show the Old Meridian Street slip ramp as being Exit 135, not sure if southbound has one since 116th Street is Exit 134 and presumably 136th Street is Exit 136.
Right, but two things:
1) I know SR 38 is more than 18 miles from SR 22 in Kokomo
2) Below is an enhanced reference marker just south of SR 38 at 203rd Street
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhighwayexplorer.com%2FPhotos%2FTemp%2FUS31-ERM-1.jpg&hash=d6bb03a7454fd5ff197758f3ebb816a1b069fce8)
I believe all their exit numbers are wrong.
I wonder then if the mile markers are based on US 31 routing around I-465 as opposed to its former routing through Indianapolis, or even if the trip around 465 is counted. The I-465 routing should add a few miles on to US 31, which could explain MM 135 being marked at SR 38 with "Exit 135" being at Old Meridian. Actually, I'm not even sure if that last part made sense, but maybe INDOT is waiting to clear up what the mile marker should be before they put the tab on. Now that I see it though, the MM 135 makes sense there at SR 38.
Here's a thought:
When 31 was relinquished through Indy and re-routed to 465, it added 8 miles to the overall length. Either INDOT purposely tied one corridor to the existing mile markers (never updated after the relinquishment) and one to the actual distance to Kentucky, or one of the corridor's exit numbers are wrong. Which would be why it appears there are only 18 miles between SR38 & SR22 when there will actually be 26-ish.
Also, I believe 202nd/203rd were re-opened but will be permanently closed once the 191st interchange is finished.
Quote from: trafficsignal on November 12, 2012, 03:14:31 PM
Here's a thought:
When 31 was relinquished through Indy and re-routed to 465, it added 8 miles to the overall length. Either INDOT purposely tied one corridor to the existing mile markers (never updated after the relinquishment) and one to the actual distance to Kentucky, or one of the corridor's exit numbers are wrong. Which would be why it appears there are only 18 miles between SR38 & SR22 when there will actually be 26-ish.
Don't know if this would have anything to do with it, but keep in mind that US 31's southern terminus in Indiana hasn't always been the state line. For many years, the E and W branches reached into Indiana.
Using Google maps, SR 38 is indeed 144 miles from the Kentucky line. Therefore, SR 22 should not be exit 162 - it should be exit 171 or 172.
So do we think that INDOT mistakenly used the mileage from the old thru-Indy route in figuring the exit numbers near Kokomo?
Quote from: theline on November 12, 2012, 09:55:25 PM
So do we think that INDOT mistakenly used the mileage from the old thru-Indy route in figuring the exit numbers near Kokomo?
If only that route still existed.
I just ran the old route of US31 through Indy on Google Maps and it came up as 135.5 miles from the KY state line to IN-38, so that appears to be what the mile marker in mukade's photo is based on.
Just trying to keep score here now:
-Milemarkers at SR 38, based on old routing of US 31 through Indy: PROBABLY WRONG
-Exit numbers at SR 38 and throughout Hamilton County US 31 corridor, based on new routing around Indy: PROBABLY RIGHT
-SR 22 exit number near Kokomo: DOES NOT MAKE SENSE
Quote from: mukade on November 12, 2012, 01:25:24 PM
Quote from: tdindy88 on November 12, 2012, 11:23:23 AM
2) Below is an enhanced reference marker just south of SR 38 at 203rd Street
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhighwayexplorer.com%2FPhotos%2FTemp%2FUS31-ERM-1.jpg&hash=d6bb03a7454fd5ff197758f3ebb816a1b069fce8)
Why is the mile marker blue? :confused:
Enhanced mile markers in Indiana (and other states) are normally blue. These signs go in the medians of major freeways in the Indianapolis area (interstates and the new US 31.) There are posts about these signs elsewhere on the forum, but I'll just say that this is normal, regardless of the accuracy of the numbers.
Quote from: tdindy88 on November 13, 2012, 01:44:18 PM
Enhanced mile markers in Indiana (and other states) are normally blue. These signs go in the medians of major freeways in the Indianapolis area (interstates and the new US 31.) There are posts about these signs elsewhere on the forum, but I'll just say that this is normal, regardless of the accuracy of the numbers.
It's pretty rare to see them on non interstates here, but that's starting to change.
INDOT should do like I-69 and reset the exit numbers north of Indy to something convenient. :P
Quote from: tdindy88 on November 13, 2012, 01:44:18 PM
Enhanced mile markers in Indiana (and other states) are normally blue. These signs go in the medians of major freeways in the Indianapolis area (interstates and the new US 31.) There are posts about these signs elsewhere on the forum, but I'll just say that this is normal, regardless of the accuracy of the numbers.
I believe blue is still an allowable variant in the MUTCD for signs that include the route shield ("enhanced,") because at that point I guess they're providing a service somehow but that makes no sense?
Quote from: Steve on November 13, 2012, 08:00:22 PM
Quote from: tdindy88 on November 13, 2012, 01:44:18 PM
Enhanced mile markers in Indiana (and other states) are normally blue. These signs go in the medians of major freeways in the Indianapolis area (interstates and the new US 31.) There are posts about these signs elsewhere on the forum, but I'll just say that this is normal, regardless of the accuracy of the numbers.
I believe blue is still an allowable variant in the MUTCD for signs that include the route shield ("enhanced,") because at that point I guess they're providing a service somehow but that makes no sense?
That's what WisDOT is using.
Mike
And Ohio. Kentucky also is (or least used to).
Quote from: tdindy88 on November 13, 2012, 09:59:00 AM
Just trying to keep score here now:
-Milemarkers at SR 38, based on old routing of US 31 through Indy: PROBABLY WRONG
-Exit numbers at SR 38 and throughout Hamilton County US 31 corridor, based on new routing around Indy: PROBABLY RIGHT
-SR 22 exit number near Kokomo: DOES NOT MAKE SENSE
The SR 22 exit number is 9 miles off - same as the enhanced reference location signs at SR 38.
Quote from: mukade on November 13, 2012, 08:56:04 PM
Quote from: tdindy88 on November 13, 2012, 09:59:00 AM
Just trying to keep score here now:
-Milemarkers at SR 38, based on old routing of US 31 through Indy: PROBABLY WRONG
-Exit numbers at SR 38 and throughout Hamilton County US 31 corridor, based on new routing around Indy: PROBABLY RIGHT
-SR 22 exit number near Kokomo: DOES NOT MAKE SENSE
The SR 22 exit number is 9 miles off - same as the enhanced reference location signs at SR 38.
Could be another rerouting you never know with INDOT.
Quote from: tdindy88 on November 13, 2012, 01:44:18 PM
Enhanced mile markers in Indiana (and other states) are normally blue. These signs go in the medians of major freeways in the Indianapolis area (interstates and the new US 31.) There are posts about these signs elsewhere on the forum, but I'll just say that this is normal, regardless of the accuracy of the numbers.
I think I may have found a link here: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4046.0
The apparent bid results for the US 31 upgrade in Hamiltion County show a partnership of Walsh Construction and Milestone Contractors submitting the low bid at around $299M. As the engineer's estimate is blacked out, I guess that is over estimate.
All bids were rejected so that big US 31 upgrade project will have to wait for some period.
US 31 official bid results (http://www.state.in.us/dot/div/contracts/letting/archive/2012/nov15/OFFICIAL-IR34750A.pdf)
Quote from: mukade on November 19, 2012, 05:40:59 PM
All bids were rejected so that big US 31 upgrade project will have to wait for some period.
US 31 official bid results (http://www.state.in.us/dot/div/contracts/letting/archive/2012/nov15/OFFICIAL-IR34750A.pdf)
Wait what?! So does this mean that it won't be built at all now? I thought it was completely funded.
It means it will be re-bid. The same thing happened with an I-69 contract where new bids will be accepted today at a special letting. I think rejected bids mean that no bids were within 10% of the engineer's estimate.
It does push things back two or three months.
US 31 northbound lanes at 146th Street opened today.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhighwayexplorer.com%2FPhotos%2FTemp%2FUS31--146thSt-2.jpg&hash=1a8ce80d68f897c6a9a5289ece5cfb3be434266f)
A lot more demolition is happening in preparation for next year's construction. Wendy's, Goodwill, and the motel by SR 32 have all been leveled.
Because bids for the entire section exceeded the estimate, it looks like it will be spread out over four contracts.
Proposed new US 31 Hamilton County contracts schedule (http://www.state.in.us/dot/div/contracts/letting/archive/2012/dec19/ProposedSchedule.pdf) from INDOT
http://www.in.gov/activecalendar/EventList.aspx?fromdate=1%2F1%2F2013&todate=1%2F31%2F2013&display=Month&type=public&eventidn=61559&view=EventDetails&information_id=124191
Contract Awarded for Next Phase of U.S. 31 Hamilton Co.
WESTFIELD, Ind. — The Indiana Department of Transportation (INDOT) has awarded a $58.4 million contract for the new U.S. 31 Hamilton County between 146th Street and 169th Street, including new freeway exits at 146th, 151st and 161st Streets. The bid submitted by Rieth-Riley Construction of Goshen was the lowest among five contractors and nearly $5 million below engineers' cost estimates.
As soon as weather permits, Rieth-Riley is expected to begin work rebuilding U.S. 31 from 146th Street to just south of 169th Street. New ramps will connect 146th Street to the north with Greyhound Pass and 151st Street with a "split-diamond" interchange. A new freeway exit at 161st Street will have roundabouts controlling ramp and cross traffic. Local traffic on Union Street and 156th Street will pass under U.S. 31 with no on or off ramps.
U.S. 31 will remain two lanes in each direction during peak times with traffic shifts and temporary intersection closures, helping to expedite construction while maintaining as much access as possible. Temporary closures at Greyhound Pass, 151st Street and 161st Street will be necessary, but the closures will be scheduled sequentially to minimize inconvenience to residents, businesses and motorists.
Anyone care to guess after South Bend/Plymouth, Kokomo and Hamilton County projects are finished how much it would cost to upgrade the remaining portions of US-31 to Interstate standards?
Tipton, Miami, and Fulton counties all have a lot of homes with direct access to 31. Some kind of access road would have to be built. I'd rather see the money go to making I-65 6 lanes all the way through the state before doing the rest of US 31.
I can I-65 at six lanes through out the state. Kentucky will be finished with their six lanes through out the state by 2020 if not earlier. I-65 as you know has many incidents of backing up for miles north of Louisville due to accidents.
Bummer. I used to eat lunch at that Wendy's all the time.
Quote from: ShawnP on January 13, 2013, 11:31:12 PM
Anyone care to guess after South Bend/Plymouth, Kokomo and Hamilton County projects are finished how much it would cost to upgrade the remaining portions of US-31 to Interstate standards?
The goal is to build an interstate standard freeway from Indy to South Bend. The remaining portions between SR 38 and Northern Tipton County (Kokomo project) and from US 35 (Kokomo) to Plymouth won't be nearly as expensive as the other projects under cosntruction because they will stay in the same footprint and are primary rural. Figure a rural road overpass roughly every three miles, one railroad overpass, and three standard diamond interchanges for the Rural Hamilton - Tipton County piece. There are some homes that will require either demolition or frontage roads that will also need to be figured in.
Quote from: monty on January 14, 2013, 09:26:08 PM
Quote from: ShawnP on January 13, 2013, 11:31:12 PM
Anyone care to guess after South Bend/Plymouth, Kokomo and Hamilton County projects are finished how much it would cost to upgrade the remaining portions of US-31 to Interstate standards?
The goal is to build an interstate standard freeway from Indy to South Bend. The remaining portions between SR 38 and Northern Tipton County (Kokomo project) and from US 35 (Kokomo) to Plymouth won't be nearly as expensive as the other projects under cosntruction because they will stay in the same footprint and are primary rural. Figure a rural road overpass roughly every three miles, one railroad overpass, and three standard diamond interchanges for the Rural Hamilton - Tipton County piece. There are some homes that will require either demolition or frontage roads that will also need to be figured in.
I wouldn't count on this happening for a long time, the state is obsessed with getting 69 finished, and that will take a lot of money to do.
Quote from: mobilene on January 14, 2013, 12:02:52 PM
Bummer. I used to eat lunch at that Wendy's all the time.
I just did a spit-take. Nope, can never find another Wendy's like that one. ;-)
Quote from: Steve on January 14, 2013, 10:28:45 PM
Quote from: mobilene on January 14, 2013, 12:02:52 PM
Bummer. I used to eat lunch at that Wendy's all the time.
I just did a spit-take. Nope, can never find another Wendy's like that one. ;-)
Well, sure. But I have to drive *five whole minutes farther* to the next one!!!!!!11! :-)
Quote from: silverback1065 on January 14, 2013, 10:10:11 PM
Quote from: monty on January 14, 2013, 09:26:08 PM
Quote from: ShawnP on January 13, 2013, 11:31:12 PM
Anyone care to guess after South Bend/Plymouth, Kokomo and Hamilton County projects are finished how much it would cost to upgrade the remaining portions of US-31 to Interstate standards?
The goal is to build an interstate standard freeway from Indy to South Bend. The remaining portions between SR 38 and Northern Tipton County (Kokomo project) and from US 35 (Kokomo) to Plymouth won't be nearly as expensive as the other projects under cosntruction because they will stay in the same footprint and are primary rural. Figure a rural road overpass roughly every three miles, one railroad overpass, and three standard diamond interchanges for the Rural Hamilton - Tipton County piece. There are some homes that will require either demolition or frontage roads that will also need to be figured in.
I wouldn't count on this happening for a long time, the state is obsessed with getting 69 finished, and that will take a lot of money to do.
Today, Governor Pence committed to improving the entire US 31 Corridor from Indianapolis to South Bend to an interstate standard, along with the completion of the new I 69 corridor and the Ohio River Bridges. Yes, funding is an issue, but he has charged INDOT to keep the projects going "to completion."
Quote from: monty on January 15, 2013, 08:12:43 PM
Today, Governor Pence committed to improving the entire US 31 Corridor from Indianapolis to South Bend to an interstate standard, along with the completion of the new I 69 corridor and the Ohio River Bridges. Yes, funding is an issue, but he has charged INDOT to keep the projects going "to completion."
Good for Gov. Pence! We know it's a long way from a politician's promise to reality, but we can be sure that nothing will be done unless someone is willing to support the cause.
Where did the info come from?
Quote from: theline on January 15, 2013, 09:51:25 PM
Quote from: monty on January 15, 2013, 08:12:43 PM
Today, Governor Pence committed to improving the entire US 31 Corridor from Indianapolis to South Bend to an interstate standard, along with the completion of the new I 69 corridor and the Ohio River Bridges. Yes, funding is an issue, but he has charged INDOT to keep the projects going "to completion."
Good for Gov. Pence! We know it's a long way from a politician's promise to reality, but we can be sure that nothing will be done unless someone is willing to support the cause.
Where did the info come from?
I agree. No one said it will be an easy task. I think we will hear more about how these projects will be funded in the near future. Source is from today's US 31 Coalition Luncheon in Indianapolis. It was a good day for US 31 advocates.
Quote from: monty on January 15, 2013, 10:59:01 PM
Quote from: theline on January 15, 2013, 09:51:25 PM
Quote from: monty on January 15, 2013, 08:12:43 PM
Today, Governor Pence committed to improving the entire US 31 Corridor from Indianapolis to South Bend to an interstate standard, along with the completion of the new I 69 corridor and the Ohio River Bridges. Yes, funding is an issue, but he has charged INDOT to keep the projects going "to completion."
Good for Gov. Pence! We know it's a long way from a politician's promise to reality, but we can be sure that nothing will be done unless someone is willing to support the cause.
Where did the info come from?
I agree. No one said it will be an easy task. I think we will hear more about how these projects will be funded in the near future. Source is from today's US 31 Coalition Luncheon in Indianapolis. It was a good day for US 31 advocates.
I'll believe it when I see it
Quote from: monty on January 15, 2013, 10:59:01 PM
Quote from: theline on January 15, 2013, 09:51:25 PM
Quote from: monty on January 15, 2013, 08:12:43 PM
Today, Governor Pence committed to improving the entire US 31 Corridor from Indianapolis to South Bend to an interstate standard, along with the completion of the new I 69 corridor and the Ohio River Bridges. Yes, funding is an issue, but he has charged INDOT to keep the projects going "to completion."
Good for Gov. Pence! We know it's a long way from a politician's promise to reality, but we can be sure that nothing will be done unless someone is willing to support the cause.
Where did the info come from?
I agree. No one said it will be an easy task. I think we will hear more about how these projects will be funded in the near future. Source is from today's US 31 Coalition Luncheon in Indianapolis. It was a good day for US 31 advocates.
Can you provide a URL?
Quote from: monty on January 14, 2013, 09:26:08 PM
Quote from: ShawnP on January 13, 2013, 11:31:12 PM
Anyone care to guess after South Bend/Plymouth, Kokomo and Hamilton County projects are finished how much it would cost to upgrade the remaining portions of US-31 to Interstate standards?
The goal is to build an interstate standard freeway from Indy to South Bend. The remaining portions between SR 38 and Northern Tipton County (Kokomo project) and from US 35 (Kokomo) to Plymouth won't be nearly as expensive as the other projects under cosntruction because they will stay in the same footprint and are primary rural. Figure a rural road overpass roughly every three miles, one railroad overpass, and three standard diamond interchanges for the Rural Hamilton - Tipton County piece. There are some homes that will require either demolition or frontage roads that will also need to be figured in.
The part of US 31 north of Peru will be significantly less expensive to build than the three sections now being built, but from SR 38 to Kokomo and Kokomo to Peru, there are some thorny issues. North of SR 38 to Kokomo, one carriageway will have to be "flattened". They won't keep the old roadway. As for frequency of overpasses, I would guess it would be one every two miles on average. Finally, the number of homes and businesses to be demolished is quite high so costs will add up quickly.
North of Peru, the highway is up to modern standards and the population density drops a lot. Therefore, fewer overpasses and interchanges and little or no reconstruction will be required. The biggest headache is just north of US 24 where a truck stop and state police post sit very close to the existing interchange.
I've wondered about the area just north of the US 24 interchange. That is a very busy truck stop that is very close to the road and close to the ramps. The state has to either buy out the truck stop or realign the interchange. Neither alternative will be cheap.
They could always move both the truck stop and police post onto US 24 to the east of that interchange, the first intersection is with County Road 210 North, which happens to lead into the same road that crosses US 31 where those two are at right now. As I see it now, that truck stop was built there to serve traffic on both US 31 and US 24, and moving it to that location would still serve that purpose for US 31 traffic.
That makes sense. Put up a big sign on the east side of 31 and blue signs leading up to the exit, and motorists would know to exit there for services. They'd have to put a traffic signal at the corner of 210 and 24, but that would work.
Don't read anything political into this other than I like Major Moves.
One of my daughters works at a Purdue University extension campus, and was given the job of escorting Mitch Daniels (the new president of Purdue University) around that campus on a half day visit. I had asked her to thank him for the Major Moves for me so she actually did. She said he smiled and said "thanks, I appreciate that!". Then he went on to say he really likes to have roads built because they help the economy now, but that investment will continue helping society a hundred years from now.
As we live near US 31, he started telling her about how US 31 will be built all the way from Indy to South Bend and should help the cities along the whole route. So, obviously, roads are a big passion for him, and he thinks US 31 will be completed.
My daughter was impressed that he knew everyone's name, learned all about the people he met, was willing to talk and listen to everyone, and was generally a very humble man.
http://www.in.gov/activecalendar/EventList.aspx?view=EventDetails&eventidn=108086&information_id=183515&type=&syndicate=syndicate
QuoteU.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood today informed Governor Mike Pence by phone that future U.S. 31 Hamilton County construction has been approved to use 90 percent federal funding, an increase above the 80 percent maximum for non-interstate projects.
It doesn't appear that there will be any visible impact on the construction or its timeline, but the state will have to foot about $23 million less of the bill for the work.
QuoteIndiana is the first state to use a new provision in the Moving Ahead for Progress in the 21st Century (MAP-21) transportation legislation that Governor Pence supported while in Congress.
The gov supported MAP-21 during his former life as a tax and spend
liberal Democrat conservative Republican Congressman. :bigass: Not to say that it's a bad thing.
I've driven through this project on my way to Kokomo. It's coming along pretty fast, a lot of the bridges appear to be very far along on their construction, I believe that this fall, they plan to shift traffic to these new lanes.
Award is pending for the section of US 31 from 96th St to 136th St. The winning bid is $150M for about 5 miles.
INDOT Official Bid Results document (http://www.in.gov/dot/div/contracts/letting/archive/2013/jul10/OFFICIAL%20071713.pdf)
Last Saturday I noticed a new sign assembly on SB US31 just north of the new 161st street interchange. I went back today and took some pictures of the sign assembly and the construction progress.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2029769/pictures/roads/2013-08-04%2018.44.47.jpg)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2029769/pictures/roads/2013-08-04%2018.44.51.jpg)
A view down the construction of the southbound lanes before switching over to the northbound lanes.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2029769/pictures/roads/2013-08-04%2018.45.23.jpg)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2029769/pictures/roads/2013-08-04%2018.45.29.jpg)
Anybody know what these letters are for? They go in order starting with B and ending with F.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2029769/pictures/roads/2013-08-04%2018.45.53.jpg)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2029769/pictures/roads/2013-08-04%2018.47.34.jpg)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2029769/pictures/roads/2013-08-04%2018.48.33.jpg)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2029769/pictures/roads/2013-08-04%2018.48.58.jpg)
I think the alpha letters are to identify construction gates, for example, to direct trucks and crews to enter at gate B.
Quote from: monty on August 04, 2013, 10:39:54 PM
I think the alpha letters are to identify construction gates, for example, to direct trucks and crews to enter at gate B.
Ah, thanks. That makes sense.
I asked an inspector on the project and he estimated that it's about 60% done.
http://www.in.gov/activecalendar/EventList.aspx?fromdate=8%2F1%2F2013&todate=8%2F31%2F2013&display=Month&type=public&eventidn=118181&view=EventDetails&information_id=186291
QuoteWESTFIELD, Ind. — The Indiana Department of Transportation (INDOT) has awarded a $141 million contract for The New U.S. 31 Hamilton County freeway upgrades between 96th and 136th streets to a joint venture between E & B Paving of Anderson and Gradex of Indianapolis. The contract includes U.S. 31 interchange improvements at I-465 and new roundabout interchanges at 106th, 116th, 131st and 136th streets.
The project to upgrade U.S. 31 to freeway standards will require temporary highway and local roadway closures, which will be scheduled sequentially and limited in duration to minimize inconvenience to residents, businesses and motorists. Complete closure of U.S. 31 between 136th Street and the Old Meridian Street ramp north of 116th Street will significantly expedite construction and is expected in 2015.
Contractors will provide a general schedule in the near future, but preliminary work could begin as early as this fall. All improvements are expected to be open to traffic by the end of 2015.
The New U.S. 31 Hamilton County is the first project to use new federal transportation legislation allowing up to 90 percent federal funding to be used for critical freight projects, an increase above the 80 percent maximum for non-interstate routes. An award for the final contract for The New U.S. 31 Hamilton County, which includes a new single-point urban interchange at State Road 32 in Westfield, is expected to be announced later this month.
Upgrading or bypassing congested sections of U.S. 31, when completed, are expected to cut a half hour off travel time between Indianapolis and South Bend. Upgrading the existing highway between I-465 and State Road 38 to interstate standards is the largest and most aggressive road project ever attempted in Hamilton County. The New U.S. 31 Hamilton County project is intended to reduce congestion, improve safety and provide continuity of commerce and regional travel for a U.S. highway that stretches from Michigan to Alabama. More information is on the Web at www.us31hamiltoncounty.IN.gov.
It looks like the last section of US 31 Hamilton County up to 203rd St. will we awarded to Rieth Riley for around $63M.
INDOT Apparent Bid Results (http://www.in.gov/dot/div/contracts/letting/archive/2013/aug07/apparent%2008-07-13.pdf)
Quote from: mukade on August 07, 2013, 08:44:49 PM
It looks like the last section of US 31 Hamilton County up to 203rd St. will we awarded to Rieth Riley for around $63M.
INDOT Apparent Bid Results (http://www.in.gov/dot/div/contracts/letting/archive/2013/aug07/apparent%2008-07-13.pdf)
That link was not for US 31 work (Coincidentally, it was for work just a couple miles from my house.)
Quote from: cabiness42 on August 08, 2013, 07:40:13 AM
Quote from: mukade on August 07, 2013, 08:44:49 PM
It looks like the last section of US 31 Hamilton County up to 203rd St. will we awarded to Rieth Riley for around $63M.
INDOT Apparent Bid Results (http://www.in.gov/dot/div/contracts/letting/archive/2013/aug07/apparent%2008-07-13.pdf)
That link was not for US 31 work (Coincidentally, it was for work just a couple miles from my house.)
Pages 2 and 3 are for the section in question. Page 1 is for work near Jeffersonville.
Quote from: bmeiser on August 08, 2013, 10:13:22 AM
Quote from: cabiness42 on August 08, 2013, 07:40:13 AM
Quote from: mukade on August 07, 2013, 08:44:49 PM
It looks like the last section of US 31 Hamilton County up to 203rd St. will we awarded to Rieth Riley for around $63M.
INDOT Apparent Bid Results (http://www.in.gov/dot/div/contracts/letting/archive/2013/aug07/apparent%2008-07-13.pdf)
That link was not for US 31 work (Coincidentally, it was for work just a couple miles from my house.)
Pages 2 and 3 are for the section in question. Page 1 is for work near Jeffersonville.
OK, for some reason, I only got the first page when I opened it.
161st street bridge will open Thursday the 15th. I'm not sure if the interchange will be open as well. I think that means no traffic lights between 136th and 169th once this section is complete this year.
has anyone been able to confirm this?
Quote from: silverback1065 on August 18, 2013, 04:10:41 PM
has anyone been able to confirm this?
They sent out a news release on Friday
http://us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/216.html
QuoteNew Roundabout Interchange Open at 161st Street and U.S. 31
WESTFIELD, Ind. — Indiana Department of Transportation (INDOT) contractor Rieth-Riley Construction has opened The New U.S. 31 Hamilton County interchange at 161st Street.
The interchange replaces the former intersection at U.S. 31 and 161st Street, which closed in April to allow crews to construct a new bridge and ramp system with roundabouts controlling ramp and cross traffic on 161st Street.
Access to and from U.S. 31 via the new ramp system and roundabouts on 161st Street are now open, but 161st Street west of Farr Hills Drive will remain closed while the City of Westfield continues to improve the intersection with the Monon Trail by creating a more pedestrian-friendly crossing. Work is expected to be completed by October 20th.
Why is 169th street known as David Brown Drive east of 31? Who's David Brown?
Quote from: silverback1065 on August 18, 2013, 08:30:03 PM
Why is 169th street known as David Brown Drive east of 31? Who's David Brown?
A murderer: http://www.ai.org/judiciary/opinions/pdf/04200701cld.pdf
A portion of the ramp system that will eventually connect southbound US 31 to 151st Street, Greyhound Pass and 146th Street has opened:
http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs123/1112548744559/archive/1114626884961.html
Wow this project is really coming along
A few months ago, it was noticed that there was a discrepancy in mileage signs/exit numbers on US 31 in Hamilton County. Some, like the enhanced mileage markers by SR 38 and the Kokomo signage, seemed to use the mileage as if US 31 went through downtown Indy while the published INDOT plans for Hamilton County seemed to show mileage as if US 31 were routed along I-465 (as it actually is). As the signs near 161st Street go up, I notice they are eight miles less than the published plans showed. Those plans showed 161st Street to be Exit 139, but it was actually signed as Exit 131. So I guess as far as US 31 mileage goes, INDOT considers the route through central Indy as the basis.
In the image below, note the unclear design for the middle sign and how the sign company interpreted the design.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhighwayexplorer.com%2FPhotos%2FTemp%2FUS31-161st-Sign.jpg&hash=cef7453f451f7f3b80197e0550fb2304d30b7e3d)
Quote from: mukade on August 24, 2013, 09:39:03 AM
A few months ago, it was noticed that there was a discrepancy in mileage signs/exit numbers on US 31 in Hamilton County. Some, like the enhanced mileage markers by SR 38 and the Kokomo signage, seemed to use the mileage as if US 31 went through downtown Indy while the published INDOT plans for Hamilton County seemed to show mileage as if US 31 were routed along I-465 (as it actually is). As the signs near 161st Street go up, I notice they are eight miles less than the published plans showed. Those plans showed 161st Street to be Exit 139, but it was actually signed as Exit 131. So I guess as far as US 31 mileage goes, INDOT considers the route through central Indy as the basis.
In the image below, note the unclear design for the middle sign and how the sign company interpreted the design.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhighwayexplorer.com%2FPhotos%2FTemp%2FUS31-161st-Sign.jpg&hash=cef7453f451f7f3b80197e0550fb2304d30b7e3d)
a) I fail to see what is unclear about the middle sign's design.
b) US 31 does not follow I-465. It officially does not exist between its 465 interchange junctions.
Quote from: Steve on August 25, 2013, 07:52:32 PM
b) US 31 does not follow I-465. It officially does not exist between its 465 interchange junctions.
Per official signs placed by INDOT, it follows I-465:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.highwayexplorer.com%2FShowImg.php%3Ffile%3DI%2FI74-I465-US31.jpg&hash=470ab851c087487250f0aae516429ad847d5eaae)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.highwayexplorer.com%2FShowImg.php%3Ffile%3DI%2FI465-US31-V16.jpg&hash=50dd90bbdff858b089e82993d7e3e7ba28a62c49)
from http://www.highwayexplorer.com/EndsPage.php?id=2031§ion=1
Quote from: Steve on August 25, 2013, 07:52:32 PM
Quote from: mukade on August 24, 2013, 09:39:03 AMIn the image below, note the unclear design for the middle sign and how the sign company interpreted the design.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhighwayexplorer.com%2FPhotos%2FTemp%2FUS31-161st-Sign.jpg&hash=cef7453f451f7f3b80197e0550fb2304d30b7e3d)
a) I fail to see what is unclear about the middle sign's design.
Unlike the other two signs on the same gantry, it has a full-width exit tab, which means both top corners on the main sign panel have unrounded borders (Indiana DOT does not round corner borders that are directly under a tab). This means that the sign cross-section shows just a ruled line for the top panel border which is precisely the same stroke width, though not the same color, as a line in the superimposed grid. The sign fabricator omitted the ruled line and as a result there is no separation between the tab and the main sign legend.
This issue extends not just to this particular sign but also to all of the other signs in this project (Indiana DOT contract no. 34750) with full-width tabs. Moreover, although Mukade quoted the cross-section sheet because this is the most convenient for showing multiple signs arranged on a gantry, this issue also affects the sign panel detail sheets. No widths are given for the top panel border/bottom tab border and the line that is used to show them is the same width as the line that separates green background from bottom yellow "EXIT ONLY" panels.
Given that it is a convention in interpreting sign panel detail sheets that any line shown in the sign sketch is not meant to be a visible feature on the finished sign unless it has a dimensioned width or is a boundary between two colors, the sign fabricator's interpretation was correct, though perhaps not the one intended by the Indiana DOT designer. Indiana DOT is therefore properly liable for any additional costs to fix this mistake.
Quote from: NE2 on August 25, 2013, 08:55:10 PM
Quote from: Steve on August 25, 2013, 07:52:32 PM
b) US 31 does not follow I-465. It officially does not exist between its 465 interchange junctions.
Per official signs placed by INDOT, it follows I-465:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.highwayexplorer.com%2FShowImg.php%3Ffile%3DI%2FI74-I465-US31.jpg&hash=470ab851c087487250f0aae516429ad847d5eaae)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.highwayexplorer.com%2FShowImg.php%3Ffile%3DI%2FI465-US31-V16.jpg&hash=50dd90bbdff858b089e82993d7e3e7ba28a62c49)
from http://www.highwayexplorer.com/EndsPage.php?id=2031§ion=1
Correct, but since they count it as still going through Indy, is it considered an unsigned highway through Indy, or is this simply an error? Or is it just fitting with the mileage posts already in the field? I have no clue...
Most likely they didn't see the need to remilepost.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milepost_equation
The sign without the line below the tab looks like a Massachusetts design until very recently--there was nothing unusual in the least about a sign that looked like that in Mass if the tab were as wide as the main sign--it was just all one sign.
Traffic will begin shifting to the newly constructed southbound lanes on Saturday. Traffic will also be able to use some of the new ramp system in this area.
http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs123/1112548744559/archive/1114880879372.html
Hamilton County is looking into building a flyover ramp to connect 146th Street with southbound Keystone Parkway.
http://www.indystar.com/article/20131003/LOCAL01/310030087/New-ramp-would-connect-146th-Street-Keystone
Originally there were plans for a connection but they were stripped when INDOT revised the design of the interchange complex with US 31 and 146th Street. The current plans make it pretty hard to get from 146th Street to Keystone without taking a variety of ramps or streets. The new ramp would be just west of the ramp connecting northbound Keystone to 146th.
Quote from: tdindy88 on October 05, 2013, 05:19:10 PM
Hamilton County is looking into building a flyover ramp to connect 146th Street with southbound Keystone Parkway.
http://www.indystar.com/article/20131003/LOCAL01/310030087/New-ramp-would-connect-146th-Street-Keystone
Originally there were plans for a connection but they were stripped when INDOT revised the design of the interchange complex with US 31 and 146th Street. The current plans make it pretty hard to get from 146th Street to Keystone without taking a variety of ramps or streets. The new ramp would be just west of the ramp connecting northbound Keystone to 146th.
so who would pay for this?
Sounds like Hamilton County.
According to INDOT's Roadway Inventory:
http://gis.in.gov/apps/DOT/RoadwayInventory/ (INDOT,website,2013)
US-31 and other routes do not exist within the city of Indianapolis, they follow I-465 around the city or they have been truncated to the outskirts.
Quote from: ssummers72 on October 06, 2013, 11:07:38 AM
According to INDOT's Roadway Inventory:
http://gis.in.gov/apps/DOT/RoadwayInventory/ (INDOT,website,2013)
US-31 and other routes do not exist within the city of Indianapolis, they follow I-465 around the city or they have been truncated to the outskirts.
SR 431 still exists (between 465 and 96th st)? Is this true? It's definitely not signed as such in the field
As far as I know, SR 431 does not exist at all.
Quote from: tdindy88 on October 06, 2013, 04:58:42 PM
As far as I know, SR 431 does not exist at all.
must be an error on their part then
SR-431 was decommissioned sevaral years ago.
You can see evidence of construction all the way down, but the construction of the new ramps at I-465 will probably cause the most delays because it impacts two highways. Is the plan still to close the section between Keystone Parkway and I-465 during construction?
Quote
Currently, crews are building two flyover ramps that will allow people to get off the highway and onto U.S. 31 in either direction without having to go through a traffic light. Recently, drivers have noticed 465 backing up because of that construction.
Construction headaches may get worse for drivers (http://fox59.com/2013/11/07/construction-headaches-may-get-worse-for-drivers/#axzz2k3LxzJv2) (Fox 59)
Quote from: mukade on November 08, 2013, 06:44:35 AM
You can see evidence of construction all the way down, but the construction of the new ramps at I-465 will probably cause the most delays because it impacts two highways. Is the plan still to close the section between Keystone Parkway and I-465 during construction?
According to this presentation from the March 2013 open house, only the section from Old Meridian to 136th St will fully close:
http://www.us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/assets/docs/OpenHouse_Mar122013_FINAL.pdf
I believe the rest will constructed under a combination of split phase traffic and crossover traffic.
Unless I missed it, there was no indication of how long that section of 31 will be closed. A study of the map leads me to believe that local traffic will reroute largely along Old Meridian. Does anyone have thoughts on what the official detour will be? INDOT prefers official detours along state highways. Since Keystone hasn't been a state route for a few years, there are no good options.
I believe Keystone will have its truck restrictions lifted for the time that US 31 is closed so that it will serve as the official detour. With the work from 146th Street north to SR 38 mostly finished by the time that closure takes place, it will be a freeway-like road from the 96th Street intersection on Keystone up to SR 38.
Quote from: tdindy88 on November 08, 2013, 09:10:50 PM
I believe Keystone will have its truck restrictions lifted for the time that US 31 is closed so that it will serve as the official detour. With the work from 146th Street north to SR 38 mostly finished by the time that closure takes place, it will be a freeway-like road from the 96th Street intersection on Keystone up to SR 38.
those restrictions have been lifted for a while, if you drive on 465 the truck restriction signs are covered up. Have they cul-de-saced 203rd street yet?
Drove through the I-465/US 31 interchange this past week. NB US 31/Meridan Street has the rightmost lane close (and the triple left on the EB I-465 exit reduced to a double), it appears a new temporary ramp for the EB I-465 exit is about to open, and there appeared to be some piles being driven.
US 31 will close on or after April 4, 2014 and will reopen by Thanksgiving
http://us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/us-31-closure/
QuoteAnnounced in 2012, INDOT plans to close US 31 between Old Meridian Street and 136th Street to accelerate the construction of an overpass at 126th Street/Carmel Drive and roundabout interchanges at 131st Street/Main Street and 136th Street.
Early utility relocations and cleared right-of-way will allow the previously planned closure of US 31 between Old Meridian Street and 136th Street in Carmel to begin on or after Friday, April 4, 2014. The road is expected to reopen before Thanksgiving.
Detour route
The official detour route will be Keystone Parkway. Pennsylvania and Illinois streets will serve as alternate routes for local access
Quote from: ysuindy on February 25, 2014, 11:20:21 AM
US 31 will close on or after April 4, 2014 and will reopen by Thanksgiving
http://us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/us-31-closure/
QuoteAnnounced in 2012, INDOT plans to close US 31 between Old Meridian Street and 136th Street to accelerate the construction of an overpass at 126th Street/Carmel Drive and roundabout interchanges at 131st Street/Main Street and 136th Street.
Early utility relocations and cleared right-of-way will allow the previously planned closure of US 31 between Old Meridian Street and 136th Street in Carmel to begin on or after Friday, April 4, 2014. The road is expected to reopen before Thanksgiving.
Detour route
The official detour route will be Keystone Parkway. Pennsylvania and Illinois streets will serve as alternate routes for local access
So no traffic lights on 31 from 136th to 169th street after thanksgiving! Aren't they supposed to close 31 again to do the portion from 106 to 116th?
Quote from: silverback1065 on February 25, 2014, 03:14:06 PM
Quote from: ysuindy on February 25, 2014, 11:20:21 AM
US 31 will close on or after April 4, 2014 and will reopen by Thanksgiving
http://us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/us-31-closure/
QuoteAnnounced in 2012, INDOT plans to close US 31 between Old Meridian Street and 136th Street to accelerate the construction of an overpass at 126th Street/Carmel Drive and roundabout interchanges at 131st Street/Main Street and 136th Street.
Early utility relocations and cleared right-of-way will allow the previously planned closure of US 31 between Old Meridian Street and 136th Street in Carmel to begin on or after Friday, April 4, 2014. The road is expected to reopen before Thanksgiving.
Detour route
The official detour route will be Keystone Parkway. Pennsylvania and Illinois streets will serve as alternate routes for local access
So no traffic lights on 31 from 136th to 169th street after thanksgiving! Aren't they supposed to close 31 again to do the portion from 106 to 116th?
No - the new road is wide enough thru there with all the CD lanes / ramp lanes / etc that they can build enough new to switch traffic over before rebuilding mainline.
Quote from: silverback1065 on February 25, 2014, 03:14:06 PM
Quote from: ysuindy on February 25, 2014, 11:20:21 AM
US 31 will close on or after April 4, 2014 and will reopen by Thanksgiving
http://us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/us-31-closure/
QuoteAnnounced in 2012, INDOT plans to close US 31 between Old Meridian Street and 136th Street to accelerate the construction of an overpass at 126th Street/Carmel Drive and roundabout interchanges at 131st Street/Main Street and 136th Street.
Early utility relocations and cleared right-of-way will allow the previously planned closure of US 31 between Old Meridian Street and 136th Street in Carmel to begin on or after Friday, April 4, 2014. The road is expected to reopen before Thanksgiving.
Detour route
The official detour route will be Keystone Parkway. Pennsylvania and Illinois streets will serve as alternate routes for local access
So no traffic lights on 31 from 136th to 169th street after thanksgiving!
It looks like SR 32 interchange will be built this year based on the huge piles of dirt, but I assume the tie-ins to the new highway might be built next year. It does look like a new temporary light is going in around 196th St.
Quote from: mukade on February 25, 2014, 07:40:40 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on February 25, 2014, 03:14:06 PM
Quote from: ysuindy on February 25, 2014, 11:20:21 AM
US 31 will close on or after April 4, 2014 and will reopen by Thanksgiving
http://us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/us-31-closure/
QuoteAnnounced in 2012, INDOT plans to close US 31 between Old Meridian Street and 136th Street to accelerate the construction of an overpass at 126th Street/Carmel Drive and roundabout interchanges at 131st Street/Main Street and 136th Street.
Early utility relocations and cleared right-of-way will allow the previously planned closure of US 31 between Old Meridian Street and 136th Street in Carmel to begin on or after Friday, April 4, 2014. The road is expected to reopen before Thanksgiving.
Detour route
The official detour route will be Keystone Parkway. Pennsylvania and Illinois streets will serve as alternate routes for local access
So no traffic lights on 31 from 136th to 169th street after thanksgiving!
It looks like SR 32 interchange will be built this year based on the huge piles of dirt, but I assume the tie-ins to the new highway might be built next year. It does look like a new temporary light is going in around 196th St.
Is the bridge for 169th done?
Quote from: mukade on February 25, 2014, 07:40:40 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on February 25, 2014, 03:14:06 PM
Quote from: ysuindy on February 25, 2014, 11:20:21 AM
US 31 will close on or after April 4, 2014 and will reopen by Thanksgiving
http://us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/us-31-closure/
QuoteAnnounced in 2012, INDOT plans to close US 31 between Old Meridian Street and 136th Street to accelerate the construction of an overpass at 126th Street/Carmel Drive and roundabout interchanges at 131st Street/Main Street and 136th Street.
Early utility relocations and cleared right-of-way will allow the previously planned closure of US 31 between Old Meridian Street and 136th Street in Carmel to begin on or after Friday, April 4, 2014. The road is expected to reopen before Thanksgiving.
Detour route
The official detour route will be Keystone Parkway. Pennsylvania and Illinois streets will serve as alternate routes for local access
So no traffic lights on 31 from 136th to 169th street after thanksgiving!
It looks like SR 32 interchange will be built this year based on the huge piles of dirt, but I assume the tie-ins to the new highway might be built next year. It does look like a new temporary light is going in around 196th St.
It looks like you're right "major construction" will begin this year on the SR 32 interchange.
http://us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/individual-interchanges/sr-32/
Quote from: silverback1065 on February 25, 2014, 07:54:30 PM
Quote from: mukade on February 25, 2014, 07:40:40 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on February 25, 2014, 03:14:06 PM
Quote from: ysuindy on February 25, 2014, 11:20:21 AM
US 31 will close on or after April 4, 2014 and will reopen by Thanksgiving
http://us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/us-31-closure/
QuoteAnnounced in 2012, INDOT plans to close US 31 between Old Meridian Street and 136th Street to accelerate the construction of an overpass at 126th Street/Carmel Drive and roundabout interchanges at 131st Street/Main Street and 136th Street.
Early utility relocations and cleared right-of-way will allow the previously planned closure of US 31 between Old Meridian Street and 136th Street in Carmel to begin on or after Friday, April 4, 2014. The road is expected to reopen before Thanksgiving.
Detour route
The official detour route will be Keystone Parkway. Pennsylvania and Illinois streets will serve as alternate routes for local access
So no traffic lights on 31 from 136th to 169th street after thanksgiving!
It looks like SR 32 interchange will be built this year based on the huge piles of dirt, but I assume the tie-ins to the new highway might be built next year. It does look like a new temporary light is going in around 196th St.
Is the bridge for 169th done?
Drove through there today. The bridge for 169th has not been started. Looked like perhaps some utility work being done, but no construction on the bridge has started.
The bridge and exit at 161st is done as is the construction on 161st to the East.
The way it's sounding, will the Main Street and 136th Street interchanges be completed then this year. I'm hoping I'm seeing that right. Also, I'm a bit lazy with this weather, but what's the progress with the 151st St interchange, has that been completed yet, I know that parts of it are, but is the whole complex with 146th finished yet?
The northbound lanes between 146th and 161st still have a long way to go, therefore 151st interchange isn't done for northbound access
The new temporary traffic light at 196th St. is now active as well. I assumes that means 191st will be closed soon for interchange construction.
The area around Village Park and Clay Terrace is a far from perfect during construction, but it could be worse. Hopefully, that whole section will be open by the end of summer.
Quote from: mukade on March 02, 2014, 09:00:55 AM
The new temporary traffic light at 196th St. is now active as well. I assumes that means 191st will be closed soon for interchange construction.
The area around Village Park and Clay Terrace is a far from perfect during construction, but it could be worse. Hopefully, that whole section will be open by the end of summer.
I haven't been there in a while, are the 151st and greyhound exits done for northbound 31? Is that light at greyhound gone?
No, not done and the northbound traffic light remains. I don't guess that will change until the new roadway up to 161st is done, and that has a ways to go.
At SR 32, the Speedway station has been demolished, and only the closed down Gas America building remains at that corner. The highway's mainline will be shifted west there, but oddly, that ugly old short-lived Citgo Truck-stop pole barn (six adjectives) building is still standing to the west. It would have been nice to see that eyesore torn down.
The way Westfield is wanting to beautify that area, you may get your wish eventually. I'm sure that ugly pole barns aren't a part of the "Grand Junction" plan they have for that area.
Starting on or after today, traffic will be shifted to the east side of US 31 between 169th St and SR 38. This is to allow for construction of the west side of the roadway through the remainder of 2014. A flashing yellow left-turn arrow will also be added to the 196th street signal, and none of the locals will know what to do with it.
http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs123/1112548744559/archive/1116965070320.html
Also, US 31 between Old Meridian street and 136th street is now closed until Thanksgiving to allow for expedited work on 2 interchanges and a bridge in that area.
http://us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/us-31-closure/
The only place ive seen flashing yellow arrows is Michigan. (I'm sure there are many other places)
SAMSUNG-SGH-I337
Quote from: silverback1065 on April 07, 2014, 01:43:06 PM
The only place ive seen flashing yellow arrows is Michigan. (I'm sure there are many other places)
SAMSUNG-SGH-I337
There is one here in Jeffersonville, though it is on a city street and not an INDOT maintained highway.
So by the end of the year there should not be any lights between 116th to 236th street?
SAMSUNG-SGH-I337
Quote from: silverback1065 on April 07, 2014, 04:57:53 PM
So by the end of the year there should not be any lights between 116th to 236th street?
SAMSUNG-SGH-I337
I think the 191st light will still be there. I think 116th might still be there as well.
The 196th signal was installed for when they close 191st for interchange construction, which will be this year. Don't hold me to it, but I believe there will be no signals between 116th & 236th so long as the interchanges reopen (196th & 169th signals will come out once the interchanges are open).
The flashing yellow is a new roll-out at INDOT, all contracts letting this February or later should have them included.
I have to go from downtown Indy to South Bend Friday afternoon leaving around 4:00. I am dreading the traffic through Westfield more than going up Keystone. But I'm struggling to come up with an alternative that I know will be faster.
Quote from: ysuindy on April 09, 2014, 11:45:19 PM
I have to go from downtown Indy to South Bend Friday afternoon leaving around 4:00. I am dreading the traffic through Westfield more than going up Keystone. But I'm struggling to come up with an alternative that I know will be faster.
I would consider I-70 east to I-465 north to I-69 to SR 37 to SR 213 to SR 26 west (or SR 22) to US 31. If you hit I-69 after 5:00, that route won't work well. The suggested route usually moves well, but you will never have a route with no traffic lights or small towns.
Quote from: mukade on April 10, 2014, 06:56:53 AM
Quote from: ysuindy on April 09, 2014, 11:45:19 PM
I have to go from downtown Indy to South Bend Friday afternoon leaving around 4:00. I am dreading the traffic through Westfield more than going up Keystone. But I'm struggling to come up with an alternative that I know will be faster.
I would consider I-70 east to I-465 north to I-69 to SR 37 to SR 213 to SR 26 west (or SR 22) to US 31. If you hit I-69 after 5:00, that route won't work well. The suggested route usually moves well, but you will never have a route with no traffic lights or small towns.
Another option is I-65 north to I-465 north/east to US 421 north to SR 47 east. Where SR 47 ends at SR 38 in Sheridan, just keep going straight on 236th St. over to US 31. Much less traffic on the NW side of Indy compared to the NE side.
My family is heading to South Bend next Friday, and we are pulling our kids out of school early just to avoid hitting Indy at rush hour.
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 10, 2014, 07:54:39 AM
Quote from: mukade on April 10, 2014, 06:56:53 AM
Quote from: ysuindy on April 09, 2014, 11:45:19 PM
I have to go from downtown Indy to South Bend Friday afternoon leaving around 4:00. I am dreading the traffic through Westfield more than going up Keystone. But I'm struggling to come up with an alternative that I know will be faster.
I would consider I-70 east to I-465 north to I-69 to SR 37 to SR 213 to SR 26 west (or SR 22) to US 31. If you hit I-69 after 5:00, that route won't work well. The suggested route usually moves well, but you will never have a route with no traffic lights or small towns.
Another option is I-65 north to I-465 north/east to US 421 north to SR 47 east. Where SR 47 ends at SR 38 in Sheridan, just keep going straight on 236th St. over to US 31. Much less traffic on the NW side of Indy compared to the NE side.
My family is heading to South Bend next Friday, and we are pulling our kids out of school early just to avoid hitting Indy at rush hour.
If you're just looking to get around the closed part, use keystone parkway, but unfortunately, that doesn't get you around the construction in Westfield.
Quote from: mukade on April 10, 2014, 06:56:53 AM
Quote from: ysuindy on April 09, 2014, 11:45:19 PM
I have to go from downtown Indy to South Bend Friday afternoon leaving around 4:00. I am dreading the traffic through Westfield more than going up Keystone. But I'm struggling to come up with an alternative that I know will be faster.
I would consider I-70 east to I-465 north to I-69 to SR 37 to SR 213 to SR 26 west (or SR 22) to US 31. If you hit I-69 after 5:00, that route won't work well. The suggested route usually moves well, but you will never have a route with no traffic lights or small towns.
Considered going most of this way - headed up 69 but traffic on 37 was backed way up. Jumped off at 116th and worked my way nearly past my house to 146th, then HazelDell / Little Chicago to 38. Overall 55 minutes to get to 31 and 38 just north of the single lane.
I have only one more trip this school year up that way and I will be leaving from home, not downtown - makes it a little easier.
My wife and daughter just got back from a trip to Evansville from South Bend, and Mrs. theline pointed out that these days motorists must plan much more carefully for life's necessities along the long trip on 31 between South Bend and Indy. Over the years we came to rely upon abundant choices for food, fuel, and facilities. Now the Kokomo options are far from the highway and the Carmel/Westfield choices are diminished and hard to get to. There are a few spots between 465 and Peru, but you have to look sharp.
She also reported that she took the I-70/US-41 route on the way down, and the I-69/SR-37 option on the way back. She said they were nearly a coin flip time-wise, with I-69 winning narrowly. She said that I-70 traffic was the lightest she has ever seen, which no doubt affected the result. We've had nothing but bad experiences on 70 in the past, with heavy traffic, construction and accident-related blockages.
Quote from: ysuindy on April 09, 2014, 11:45:19 PM
I have to go from downtown Indy to South Bend Friday afternoon leaving around 4:00. I am dreading the traffic through Westfield more than going up Keystone. But I'm struggling to come up with an alternative that I know will be faster.
I know I'm late to this party, but I do the Indy-SB trip a lot. I usually take US 421/SR 29 to SR 25 to US 31. But if I've just got to go through Kokomo, I drive Spring Mill Road (the first through road west of 31) all the way up to SR 32 and then take 32 east to US 31. Despite all the roundabouts on Spring Mill Road, it's a fine detour.
-Jim
Quote from: mobilene on April 29, 2014, 08:48:58 PM
Quote from: ysuindy on April 09, 2014, 11:45:19 PM
I have to go from downtown Indy to South Bend Friday afternoon leaving around 4:00. I am dreading the traffic through Westfield more than going up Keystone. But I'm struggling to come up with an alternative that I know will be faster.
I know I'm late to this party, but I do the Indy-SB trip a lot. I usually take US 421/SR 29 to SR 25 to US 31. But if I've just got to go through Kokomo, I drive Spring Mill Road (the first through road west of 31) all the way up to SR 32 and then take 32 east to US 31. Despite all the roundabouts on Spring Mill Road, it's a fine detour.
-Jim
421-29-25-31 was how I did Indy-SB for years and years. Since 31 in Kokomo is finally finished, I've changed it to cut over to 31 at 47/236th Street.
Does anyone know which interchanges will not be dogbones besides I-465 and IN-38? Also, when this project is complete, will US-31 be up to interstate highway standards between I-465 and IN-38?
SR 32 will be a SPUI and the Keystone/146th/151st interchange complex will not be a dogbone. And yes to your second question, it will be freeway-standard between 465 and 38.
Dogbone? Am I the only person that calls them "teardrop roundabouts"?
SAMSUNG-SGH-I337
Does anyone know why there will not be an interchange with Carmel Dr.? In my opinion, I think there should be one. :hmmm:
The interchange is at 131st st now I assume they didnt see a need for a carmel drive one if they had one at 131st planned
SAMSUNG-SGH-I337
Quote from: billtm on May 14, 2014, 04:50:08 PM
Does anyone know why there will not be an interchange with Carmel Dr.? In my opinion, I think there should be one. :hmmm:
Here is the website for the project, with a full listing of which cross roads will become interchanges, overpasses, or cul-de-sacs.
http://us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/
Looks like Carmel Drive will be an overpass with no interchange.
I noticed both the enhanced reference markers and the traditional Indiana mile posts are green instead of blue on the newest section of the US 31 freeway in Westfield.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhighwayexplorer.com%2FPhotos%2FTemp%2FUS31-MM2.jpg&hash=dd87df77e9f2e679f47883843da48bf8f1295003)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhighwayexplorer.com%2FPhotos%2FTemp%2FUS31-MM1.jpg&hash=f737645d4789b1ba9ad56fb73da5b5979d2440b4)
What crossing is this
SAMSUNG-SGH-I337
161st Street. I was just there yesterday checking out the corridor and I didn't notice the green markers. They looked blue along the stretch around 146th Street, but maybe not.
The ones around sr 38 are blue I'm fairly certain
SAMSUNG-SGH-I337
They poured the bridge deck for the new flyover for us 31 s to 465 e looks to me that it will open before the year ends. On another note the sr 28 interchange with 31 will have roundabouts on them. It will look about the same as the sr 38 interchange but with roundabouts at the ends on 28
Where's the information about this new SR 28 interchange, just curious that's all. So you believe the new flyover will be open this year, I know they're trying to finish up the one at 65/465 on the south side too.
Ive seen the plans they haven't been posted online yet though.
Quote from: tdindy88 on October 27, 2014, 10:16:10 PM
Where's the information about this new SR 28 interchange, just curious that's all. So you believe the new flyover will be open this year, I know they're trying to finish up the one at 65/465 on the south side too.
I only say the flyover for 31 will be done from observations driving by to and from work everyday, I don't have any inside knowledge on it. It appears to be well on its way though, the bridge deck was poured and the wall rebar is up.
Is there any news at all on this project? Is it still on target to be open by Thanksgiving?
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 07, 2014, 10:44:48 AM
Quote from: tdindy88 on October 27, 2014, 10:16:10 PM
Where's the information about this new SR 28 interchange, just curious that's all. So you believe the new flyover will be open this year, I know they're trying to finish up the one at 65/465 on the south side too.
I only say the flyover for 31 will be done from observations driving by to and from work everyday, I don't have any inside knowledge on it. It appears to be well on its way though, the bridge deck was poured and the wall rebar is up.
Is there any news at all on this project? Is it still on target to be open by Thanksgiving?
Google Maps has an updated aerial - as of end of September no pavement had been done under Carmel Drive, otherwise things look promising.
At least southbound 31 to 465 will be done by the end of the year. There is way more progress there than I thought. As for SR 28, nothing has started there. It will still be a couple years. I 65 on the south side is nearly as close as the 31 interchange is. I think WB 465 to SB 65 will be done very close to SB 31 to EB 465. I'm keeping a close eye on both projects and they are both making crazy progress.
The SR 28 interchange likely will be let in 2015 and completed in 2016. Probably a diamond style interchange with roundabouts on SR 28. Kind of a rural dog bone on steroids.
iPhone
the sr 28 interchange is a folded diamond with roundabouts.
http://wishtv.com/2014/10/21/contruction-on-u-s-31-in-carmel-nearing-completion/
http://www.wthr.com/story/27330064/2014/11/07/businesses-excited-for-end-of-us-31-construction
it's still on schedule to open next week
http://us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/us31opens/ (http://us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/us31opens/)
Closure is due to be re-opened by the end of today.
Website includes youtube drone fly-through.
Awesome! I know where I'm driving after work.
There's still a lot of work to be done on the part that was just opened. All of the signage is missing (the BGS's are all up) the surface layer of asphalt isn't down, and we all know about the 3rd lane being closed for now. The 136th street interchange is interesting to say the least, no signs are up there either, so it could be a little confusing. 131st is also missing all of the required signs for now, but that interchange is much less confusing. Beware, the speed limit is only 45 (not the final speed limit, just for while it's a construction zone) the entire area is infested with cops giving speeding tickets in an effort to "keep us safe".
Speaking of signage, I noticed that our tabless BGS at the 161st Street exit for Exit 129 (151st/146th Streets) has a line separating the tab from the rest of the sign. I was also surprised to see signage up approaching 116th Streets for the exits at 106th Street and I-465. By that account there should be signage for the SR 32 interchange at 161st Street. It will be nice to see this highway completed next year.
Opened up Google Maps today and noticed that 31 is now the orange "limited-access" color from 116th St all the way up to 196th St. It's really only limited access up to 169th St / David Brown drive right now so I think they've jumped the gun here a little.
More gun-jumping has occurred on Keystone which has the same color all the way down to 465. They haven't started on the supposed interchange at 96th St yet and there is still access to 98th and 99th streets directly from Keystone, although there are no stoplights.
What's even more strange is that they have Old Meridian St. colored the same. This road is definitely not limited access in any way, shape or form.
Also (related to this subject but not necessarily this topic) 31 is still yellow around Kokomo while it is orange from Plymouth to South Bend.
Maybe I should join Google Map Maker and have all my changes denied like what's happening to those of you that are trying to fix Lafayette :D
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2029769/pictures/roads/gun-jumpage.png)
Quote from: bmeiser on December 03, 2014, 09:51:19 AM
Opened up Google Maps today and noticed that 31 is now the orange "limited-access" color from 116th St all the way up to 196th St. It's really only limited access up to 169th St / David Brown drive right now so I think they've jumped the gun here a little.
More gun-jumping has occurred on Keystone which has the same color all the way down to 465. They haven't started on the supposed interchange at 96th St yet and there is still access to 98th and 99th streets directly from Keystone, although there are no stoplights.
What's even more strange is that they have Old Meridian St. colored the same. This road is definitely not limited access in any way, shape or form.
Also (related to this subject but not necessarily this topic) 31 is still yellow around Kokomo while it is orange from Plymouth to South Bend.
Maybe I should join Google Map Maker and have all my changes denied like what's happening to those of you that are trying to fix Lafayette :D
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2029769/pictures/roads/gun-jumpage.png)
I don't think they even have money or design of the 96th St interchange. I feel like that interchange should be a folded diamond with roundabouts, if they do a teardrop style, there would be some serous weaving issues do to the proximity to the 465 interchange. not to mention INDOT still owns Keystone from 96th to 465. The 98th and 99th St entrances are all right in right out. On an unrelated note, is there a link that anyone could post that shows how to insert pictures in posts on this site? I have no idea how to post pictures here.
Freeway and Expressway priority roads both show up in orange. Expressways were yellow for several months, but changed back to orange a couple months ago. Both US 31 and Keystone are expressway, which is correct as they are partially access controlled.
Some Google fuckup changed Old Meridian to Expressway, which clearly is not correct.
Fair enough. I think the orange for Keystone should probably start north of 96th then and Kokomo 31 should definitely be orange. Old Meridian is definitely a fuckup.
Sliverback, I didn't think they had any funding/design for that interchange either. My dad, who works for a local highway construction company, seems to think they do so I just assumed they did. Maybe he meant that they are "definitely planning" to put an interchange there not "definitely putting" one there.
As far as posting images go, I uploaded this screenshot to my Dropbox account and pasted the public URL for it between between "[img]" tags. You can upload the image to any sort of image service (imgur.com is free and I don't think it even requires an account) and use the "[img]" tag to post the image. There's a button in the toolbar (under the bold button) that will place the "[img]" tag in the post for you. Hopefully that helps!
Quote from: bmeiser on December 03, 2014, 12:04:24 PM
Fair enough. I think the orange for Keystone should probably start north of 96th then and Kokomo 31 should definitely be orange. Old Meridian is definitely a fuckup.
Google doesn't let things exist in isolation because it looks bad when you zoom the map out. The the Kokomo bypass was freeway or expressway, it would be visible as a floating orange line with no connection to anything else at certain zoom levels. It will have to stay as it is until 31 is access controlled all the way down. Google really needs to redefine the expressway priority to be closer to OSM's trunk highway (or add another priority in between expressway and national highway), but I doubt it will ever happen.
For preparing pictures to post on the board, I'd recommend tinypic.com. It's very easy to use and the result shows up with IMG tags all ready to go. No registration needed. The photos stick around for a long time too. Pictures I posted a couple of years ago still show up.
cool thanks guys!
Google Maps has been a bit of a disaster on the edit front. the site keeps changing colors of everything! why do interchanges suddenly change color? they all used to be orange, now some are white. Who makes the executive decisions there?
Quote from: dfwmapper on December 03, 2014, 12:33:46 PM
Quote from: bmeiser on December 03, 2014, 12:04:24 PM
Fair enough. I think the orange for Keystone should probably start north of 96th then and Kokomo 31 should definitely be orange. Old Meridian is definitely a fuckup.
Google doesn't let things exist in isolation because it looks bad when you zoom the map out. The the Kokomo bypass was freeway or expressway, it would be visible as a floating orange line with no connection to anything else at certain zoom levels. It will have to stay as it is until 31 is access controlled all the way down. Google really needs to redefine the expressway priority to be closer to OSM's trunk highway (or add another priority in between expressway and national highway), but I doubt it will ever happen.
Then why is there a short orange segment on US 23 in Delaware, Ohio and a disconnected orange segment on US 24 in Napoleon, Ohio? I think the zoom works correctly in those instances.
I think Google Maps is just very inconsistent. The US 41 freeway segment near Vincennes and SR 641 in Terre Haute are also not the right color - in addition to US 31 n Kokomo. Its a shame because they react to changes much faster than the competition, but they are also stubborn about not fixing errors when brought to their attention. I don't even bother anymore.
Quote from: mukade on December 03, 2014, 09:04:36 PM
Quote from: dfwmapper on December 03, 2014, 12:33:46 PM
Quote from: bmeiser on December 03, 2014, 12:04:24 PM
Fair enough. I think the orange for Keystone should probably start north of 96th then and Kokomo 31 should definitely be orange. Old Meridian is definitely a fuckup.
Google doesn't let things exist in isolation because it looks bad when you zoom the map out. The the Kokomo bypass was freeway or expressway, it would be visible as a floating orange line with no connection to anything else at certain zoom levels. It will have to stay as it is until 31 is access controlled all the way down. Google really needs to redefine the expressway priority to be closer to OSM's trunk highway (or add another priority in between expressway and national highway), but I doubt it will ever happen.
Then why is there a short orange segment on US 23 in Delaware, Ohio and a disconnected orange segment on US 24 in Napoleon, Ohio? I think the zoom works correctly in those instances.
I think Google Maps is just very inconsistent. The US 41 freeway segment near Vincennes and SR 641 in Terre Haute are also not the right color - in addition to US 31 n Kokomo. Its a shame because they react to changes much faster than the competition, but they are also stubborn about not fixing errors when brought to their attention. I don't even bother anymore.
It's quite frustrating dealing with their bs I've only been approved once without proof. But even with valid proof they refuse!
Someone needs to get on their ass about Old Meridian though, that's just plain wrong. I'm almost willing to let US 31 and Keystone slide as they appear now, but not Old Meridian. Next thing I know Keystone will be a freeway down to Binford Blvd.
Quote from: mukade on December 03, 2014, 09:04:36 PM
Then why is there a short orange segment on US 23 in Delaware, Ohio and a disconnected orange segment on US 24 in Napoleon, Ohio? I think the zoom works correctly in those instances.
Because Ohio is outside the area I usually map in. Submitted edits to fix them though.
QuoteI think Google Maps is just very inconsistent. The US 41 freeway segment near Vincennes and SR 641 in Terre Haute are also not the right color - in addition to US 31 n Kokomo. Its a shame because they react to changes much faster than the competition, but they are also stubborn about not fixing errors when brought to their attention. I don't even bother anymore.
Those are all correct as they are per guidelines. 641 can probably be justified as a freeway once it's open all the way to I-70.
Quote from: tdindy88 on December 03, 2014, 10:06:17 PM
Someone needs to get on their ass about Old Meridian though, that's just plain wrong. I'm almost willing to let US 31 and Keystone slide as they appear now, but not Old Meridian. Next thing I know Keystone will be a freeway down to Binford Blvd.
Already taken care of.
Quote from: dfwmapper on December 04, 2014, 12:06:25 AM
Quote from: mukade on December 03, 2014, 09:04:36 PM
Then why is there a short orange segment on US 23 in Delaware, Ohio and a disconnected orange segment on US 24 in Napoleon, Ohio? I think the zoom works correctly in those instances.
Because Ohio is outside the area I usually map in. Submitted edits to fix them though.
QuoteI think Google Maps is just very inconsistent. The US 41 freeway segment near Vincennes and SR 641 in Terre Haute are also not the right color - in addition to US 31 n Kokomo. Its a shame because they react to changes much faster than the competition, but they are also stubborn about not fixing errors when brought to their attention. I don't even bother anymore.
Those are all correct as they are per guidelines. 641 can probably be justified as a freeway once it's open all the way to I-70.
Quote from: tdindy88 on December 03, 2014, 10:06:17 PM
Someone needs to get on their ass about Old Meridian though, that's just plain wrong. I'm almost willing to let US 31 and Keystone slide as they appear now, but not Old Meridian. Next thing I know Keystone will be a freeway down to Binford Blvd.
Already taken care of.
If I understand your comment right, guidelines trump reality? This section of US 412 would also be "wrong": https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1952949,-94.9452078,10z (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1952949,-94.9452078,10z)?
So how do weird errors keep coming back? Two examples are US 24 from Antwerp to Defiance. This has gone back and forth between freeway and non freeway more than once. It is not a freeway, but it is shown in orange. Compare that to real sections of freeway that are not shown in orange (for example, the ones like US 31 Kokomo which once was shown in orange and others cited in this thread). Another example is US 52 in Lafayette is another one that is confounding. That route follows Teal Road and the US 231 bypass, not Sagamore Parkway. I am pretty sure it has been shown right in the past, but it is back to being wrong.
So back to US 31 - it is great that Gmaps beats everyone with timely updates, but what are even more important things are accuracy and consistency. It seems like some subjective guidelines trump reality. I'm not talking about errors like we see with Old Meridian. That seems to have been fixed already as noted.
The Goog likes to apply its own rules to reality, reality be damned.
Someone should downgrade the entire Hawaiian freeway system because it's not connected to any others.
Quote from: mukade on December 04, 2014, 06:01:46 AM
If I understand your comment right, guidelines trump reality? This section of US 412 would also be "wrong": https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1952949,-94.9452078,10z (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1952949,-94.9452078,10z)?
Yes. It should probably be marked as an expressway from the I-44 interchange to the east end of the Cherokee Turnpike, but that would be hard to get approved with as many at-grade intersection as there are. The Goog's priorities really don't apply well to the west and midwest where it isn't worth grade-separating every section line road that has a dozen people living off of it, or building frontage roads for farm driveways with an AADT in the single digits.
QuoteSo how do weird errors keep coming back? Two examples are US 24 from Antwerp to Defiance. This has gone back and forth between freeway and non freeway more than once. It is not a freeway, but it is shown in orange. Compare that to real sections of freeway that are not shown in orange (for example, the ones like US 31 Kokomo which once was shown in orange and others cited in this thread).
US 24 is marked as an expressway from the first at-grade intersection eastward, which is correct. Expressway and freeway both show up in orange, though expressways were yellow for quite a while when they made the change to make arterials white instead of light yellow.
QuoteAnother example is US 52 in Lafayette is another one that is confounding. That route follows Teal Road and the US 231 bypass, not Sagamore Parkway. I am pretty sure it has been shown right in the past, but it is back to being wrong.
There's something corrupt internally that is preventing that getting fixed. Tried to fix that when I fixed IN 25, but it wouldn't submit. it's been reported, so it might get fixed sometime this millennium.
QuoteSo back to US 31 - it is great that Gmaps beats everyone with timely updates, but what are even more important things are accuracy and consistency. It seems like some subjective guidelines trump reality. I'm not talking about errors like we see with Old Meridian. That seems to have been fixed already as noted.
What difference does it make in your driving life if 11 miles of the road is orange vs. yellow? Either way it's obvious that it is the primary N/S route, and directions are going to send you over it. Consistency with the rest of US 31 means it should stay yellow.
There are a shitload of freeways that are correctly marked on the Goog and don't connect to anything else. See Virginia, Myrtle Beach, even I-22 for now. Don't do the Goog's dirty work for them like a good German in the 1930s.
(And then there's WIS 29, which isn't a freeway but appears as one. Same with US 101 south of Frisco and US 395 in Washington.)
I know this may be a little off topic, but I don't think it requires its own thread. Does anyone know how to access satellite imagery on the new Google maps? :confused:
Quote from: billtm on December 04, 2014, 03:14:53 PM
I know this may be a little off topic, but I don't think it requires its own thread. Does anyone know how to access satellite imagery on the new Google maps? :confused:
Just click on the box on the lower left side of the screen it should look like a tiny satellite view of the area you are zoomed into. it's labeled "earth" even though it isn't referring to the program
Quote from: billtm on December 04, 2014, 03:14:53 PM
I know this may be a little off topic, but I don't think it requires its own thread. Does anyone know how to access satellite imagery on the new Google maps? :confused:
Click the question mark, then "return to classic Google Maps". :bigass:
Quote from: NE2 on December 04, 2014, 03:50:43 PM
Quote from: billtm on December 04, 2014, 03:14:53 PM
I know this may be a little off topic, but I don't think it requires its own thread. Does anyone know how to access satellite imagery on the new Google maps? :confused:
Click the question mark, then "return to classic Google Maps". :bigass:
That also works. I am happy that the distance measurement tool is back and better than ever!
http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs123/1112548744559/archive/1119514786114.html
QuoteNew southbound US 31 ramp to eastbound I-465 opening today, Dec. 17
It's already showing up on Google Maps. That's the fastest I've seen that happen.
Will there be more flyover ramps, or is the interchange now completed?
Quote from: billtm on December 17, 2014, 05:29:06 PM
Will there be more flyover ramps, or is the interchange now completed?
one more, it will go from 465 east to us 31 n. check this out: http://us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/b_465-LEAN.jpg
Quote from: silverback1065 on December 17, 2014, 05:30:41 PM
Quote from: billtm on December 17, 2014, 05:29:06 PM
Will there be more flyover ramps, or is the interchange now completed?
one more, it will go from 465 east to us 31 n. check this out: http://us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/b_465-LEAN.jpg
So that means there will still be a stoplight for WB I-465 to SB US-31 traffic?
Quote from: billtm on December 17, 2014, 05:34:26 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on December 17, 2014, 05:30:41 PM
Quote from: billtm on December 17, 2014, 05:29:06 PM
Will there be more flyover ramps, or is the interchange now completed?
one more, it will go from 465 east to us 31 n. check this out: http://us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/b_465-LEAN.jpg
So that means there will still be a stoplight for WB I-465 to SB US-31 traffic?
From the looks of it yes. and there may be one for EB 465 to SB meridian st. The geometry of that ramp makes me think they will need a light or a yield sign, but those are guesses by me.
Quote from: silverback1065 on December 17, 2014, 05:38:10 PM
Quote from: billtm on December 17, 2014, 05:34:26 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on December 17, 2014, 05:30:41 PM
Quote from: billtm on December 17, 2014, 05:29:06 PM
Will there be more flyover ramps, or is the interchange now completed?
one more, it will go from 465 east to us 31 n. check this out: http://us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/b_465-LEAN.jpg
So that means there will still be a stoplight for WB I-465 to SB US-31 traffic?
From the looks of it yes. and there may be one for EB 465 to SB meridian st. The geometry of that ramp makes me think they will need a light or a yield sign, but those are guesses by me.
Since both stoplights are going to SB Meridian St., does that mean I-67 is still possible :sombrero:, or does the whole interchange have to be free-flowing? :confused:
Quote from: billtm on December 17, 2014, 05:43:14 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on December 17, 2014, 05:38:10 PM
Quote from: billtm on December 17, 2014, 05:34:26 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on December 17, 2014, 05:30:41 PM
Quote from: billtm on December 17, 2014, 05:29:06 PM
Will there be more flyover ramps, or is the interchange now completed?
one more, it will go from 465 east to us 31 n. check this out: http://us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/b_465-LEAN.jpg
So that means there will still be a stoplight for WB I-465 to SB US-31 traffic?
From the looks of it yes. and there may be one for EB 465 to SB meridian st. The geometry of that ramp makes me think they will need a light or a yield sign, but those are guesses by me.
Since both stoplights are going to SB Meridian St., does that mean I-67 is still possible :sombrero:, or does the whole interchange have to be free-flowing? :confused:
I think 67 would work since it would use ramps that you wouldn't have to stop at.
Quote from: billtm on December 17, 2014, 05:43:14 PM
Since both stoplights are going to SB Meridian St., does that mean I-67 is still possible
Of course. See I-39 at I-90/94 near Portage, WI.
Quote from: silverback1065 on December 17, 2014, 04:26:15 PM
It's already showing up on Google Maps. That's the fastest I've seen that happen.
Maybe a bit too quick, as they're now delaying the opening due to an "equipment malfunction", whatever that means.
http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs123/1112548744559/archive/1119521112135.html
So now the new BGS has been installed on 465 East, it shows that the new freeway is no longer signed as Meridian St (not surprising). Unfortunately it incorrectly states the exit as 33 when it's really 31, it also has a Keystone Ave sign incorrectly stated as exit 31 when it's really 33. I hope they fix that, how do you mess that up!?
Are there any control cities on the sign for US 31 north?
I believe it was just kokomo I'll look on my way home from work to confirm this evening. Google maps also shows incorrectly the SPUI at SR 32. It's right that that is what it will look like, but it's wrong because it doesn't exist yet!
The project page says the SPUI at SR 32 was supposed to be active once the traffic shift on the 17th was completed.
http://us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/construction-closure-information/westfield-constructionclosures/
Quote from: dfwmapper on January 21, 2015, 01:47:15 PM
The project page says the SPUI at SR 32 was supposed to be active once the traffic shift on the 17th was completed.
http://us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/construction-closure-information/westfield-constructionclosures/
Really? Only half of 31 is complete through there. Maybe half of the interchange is open. I'll have to drive up and investigate.
So no lights from 116th to 196th now!
Quote from: silverback1065 on January 21, 2015, 07:59:11 AM
I believe it was just kokomo I'll look on my way home from work to confirm this evening. Google maps also shows incorrectly the SPUI at SR 32. It's right that that is what it will look like, but it's wrong because it doesn't exist yet!
Actually it does exist -- the new SPUI is fully open and functional since Saturday. Both Northbound and Southbound traffic is sharing the southbound lanes at this time.
Quote from: cjw2001 on January 21, 2015, 02:17:23 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on January 21, 2015, 07:59:11 AM
I believe it was just kokomo I'll look on my way home from work to confirm this evening. Google maps also shows incorrectly the SPUI at SR 32. It's right that that is what it will look like, but it's wrong because it doesn't exist yet!
Actually it does exist -- the new SPUI is fully open and functional since Saturday. Both Northbound and Southbound traffic is sharing the southbound lanes at this time.
O great I guess I misread the headline. That's great news traffic will still be awful until it's done but its nice to see no more lights on that stretch.
Was Westfield Blvd was supposed to be extended south to connect to 151st st? I saw it on Google maps as a proposed extension, but it's since disappeared.
Quote from: silverback1065 on January 21, 2015, 02:31:22 PM
Was Westfield Blvd was supposed to be extended south to connect to 151st st? I saw it on Google maps as a proposed extension, but it's since disappeared.
Still planned for 2015 by city of Westfield. Some Google editor arbitrarily removed it.
I've added all the Hamilton County US 31 construction activity to Google Maps for the last several years, including the new SPUI at SR 32.
Quote from: cjw2001 on January 21, 2015, 02:17:23 PM
Actually it does exist -- the new SPUI is fully open and functional since Saturday. Both Northbound and Southbound traffic is sharing the southbound lanes at this time.
You can see the details for the current configuration and new SPUI here (http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs123/1112548744559/archive/1119629008963.html)
Quote from: silverback1065 on January 21, 2015, 02:19:02 PM
That's great news traffic will still be awful until it's done but its nice to see no more lights on that stretch.
Actually traffic is moving quite well other than the stretch between 116th and I 465. The only thing to watch out for is that the construction speed limits are being aggressively enforced by Carmel, Westfield, and Indiana state police. As long as you keep your speed to a reasonable level you should have no issues.
Quote from: cjw2001 on January 21, 2015, 08:05:37 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on January 21, 2015, 02:19:02 PM
That's great news traffic will still be awful until it's done but its nice to see no more lights on that stretch.
Actually traffic is moving quite well other than the stretch between 116th and I 465. The only thing to watch out for is that the construction speed limits are being aggressively enforced by Carmel, Westfield, and Indiana state police. As long as you keep your speed to a reasonable level you should have no issues.
Those cops just love "keeping us safe" with tickets. Are there any plans to decommission SR 32? INDOT seems to always do this when State roads turn urban.
I've heard of none. But they could always decommission the highway from say US 31 over to SR 37. Not that we should give them any ideas.
I do hope the control city for 31 is only Kokomo. The original sign plans had Kokomo and Westfield, skipping both South Bend and the 5th largest city in the state Carmel. Kokomo will do just fine. I had seen that the sign plans for the SR 32 exit (I'm pretty sure this sign isn't up yet) had Lebanon and Noblesville listed, skipping Westfield altogether, and this will be the primary Westfield exit. To my knowledge I saw no signage for Carmel or Westfield in any of the plans other than the Westfield mention at I-465.
Going on a short tangent from here, I brought up an idea one time to a family member who lives in Westfield that they should add some sort of decoration on the 146th Street overpass. For northbound traffic on US 31, it should saw Westfield in green with a shamrock and for southbound traffic on 31, it should say Carmel in blue and yellow with a greyhound. Just something I'd like to see personally as I drove underneath SR 39 in Lebanon not too long ago and saw something decoration on that bridge for Lebanon. Okay, I'm done.
Quote from: silverback1065 on January 21, 2015, 08:06:40 PM
Those cops just love "keeping us safe" with tickets.
From one of the local news stories it was stated that everybody that was ticketed on one of the enforcement days was going at least 15 mph over the posted limit. So I don't think they are going after those just a few mph over. Considering that this is still a construction area with restricted lanes it isn't an unreasonable thing to be doing.
Anyone know why sr 32 wasn't a teardrop roundabout interchange?
Probably something to do with the words "State Road." Seriously, all the teardrop roundabout interchanges that have been built in Indiana have been with "local" roads. That will change with the I-69/SR 445 interchange in Greene County however.
Quote from: tdindy88 on January 21, 2015, 10:16:03 PM
Probably something to do with the words "State Road." Seriously, all the teardrop roundabout interchanges that have been built in Indiana have been with "local" roads. That will change with the I-69/SR 445 interchange in Greene County however.
I thought that was a trumpet did they change it?
Quote from: tdindy88 on January 21, 2015, 07:55:07 AM
Are there any control cities on the sign for US 31 north?
The control cities are Westfield and kokomo. I think it should be south bend and kokomo.
Carmel = 85,000 people, Westfield = 30,000 people. Westfield is obviously more important. Or better yet, your idea, Kokomo and South Bend.
Quote from: tdindy88 on January 22, 2015, 08:12:41 AM
Carmel = 85,000 people, Westfield = 30,000 people. Westfield is obviously more important. Or better yet, your idea, Kokomo and South Bend.
Wow I didn't know Carmel was that big. I think indot thinks keystone is the Carmel exit it has a small sign for that exit. Westfield shouldn't be on the sign at all. Maybe its there because of grand park? Who makes these decisions anyway?
When you turn north on US 31 from 465, you are technically in Carmel I believe, so maybe that's why the next significant destination city is Westfield.
iPhone
Not that INDOT marks it. There are plenty of Indianapolis signs on I-65 and I-70 when you're well within the city limits.
The BGS has been fixed and the correct exit numbers are now showing. I drove the route Friday, things are really coming along.
Quote from: dfwmapper on December 04, 2014, 10:26:25 AM
Quote from: mukade on December 04, 2014, 06:01:46 AM
If I understand your comment right, guidelines trump reality? This section of US 412 would also be "wrong": https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1952949,-94.9452078,10z (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1952949,-94.9452078,10z)?
Yes. It should probably be marked as an expressway from the I-44 interchange to the east end of the Cherokee Turnpike, but that would be hard to get approved with as many at-grade intersection as there are. The Goog's priorities really don't apply well to the west and midwest where it isn't worth grade-separating every section line road that has a dozen people living off of it, or building frontage roads for farm driveways with an AADT in the single digits.
QuoteSo how do weird errors keep coming back? Two examples are US 24 from Antwerp to Defiance. This has gone back and forth between freeway and non freeway more than once. It is not a freeway, but it is shown in orange. Compare that to real sections of freeway that are not shown in orange (for example, the ones like US 31 Kokomo which once was shown in orange and others cited in this thread).
US 24 is marked as an expressway from the first at-grade intersection eastward, which is correct. Expressway and freeway both show up in orange, though expressways were yellow for quite a while when they made the change to make arterials white instead of light yellow.
QuoteAnother example is US 52 in Lafayette is another one that is confounding. That route follows Teal Road and the US 231 bypass, not Sagamore Parkway. I am pretty sure it has been shown right in the past, but it is back to being wrong.
There's something corrupt internally that is preventing that getting fixed. Tried to fix that when I fixed IN 25, but it wouldn't submit. it's been reported, so it might get fixed sometime this millennium.
QuoteSo back to US 31 - it is great that Gmaps beats everyone with timely updates, but what are even more important things are accuracy and consistency. It seems like some subjective guidelines trump reality. I'm not talking about errors like we see with Old Meridian. That seems to have been fixed already as noted.
What difference does it make in your driving life if 11 miles of the road is orange vs. yellow? Either way it's obvious that it is the primary N/S route, and directions are going to send you over it. Consistency with the rest of US 31 means it should stay yellow.
When I read this post a few months ago, I was dumbfounded. It seemed inconceivable that what exists in reality is not what GMaps wants to show. Refelecting reality is a reasonable goal when it comes to maps, and is simpler because you don't end up with near as many subjective, inconsistent decisions.
Since that post in December, it does look like GMaps made that section of US 412 (not a freeway) and a large section of US 24 in Ohio (not a freeway) orange. They have US 31 in Hamilton County which is two lanes with a stoplight and at least one curb cut orange. While it seems obvious to me US 31 around Kokomo should be put back to orange, I guess that is not what is going to happen. Maybe they need another color to represent grades of roads.
Anyway, if the US 412 and US 24 logic win the day, then why are these not orange?:
- US 31 from US 30 south to US 24 (or even the southern junction of BR 31)
- Hoosier Heartland corridor: SR 25 from I-65 to US 35/US 24 from the same spot all the way to SR 9 in Huntington
- US 30 from I-469 to Bucyrus
- Illinois 110 (336) from I-172 to Macomb
and I am sure many more.
All of those are expressways (few traffic lights and no curb cuts)
And yes, they still are confounded by the actual routing of US 52 in Lafayette so they're leaving it wrong.
Quote from: mukade on March 01, 2015, 02:43:22 PM
Quote from: dfwmapper on December 04, 2014, 10:26:25 AM
Quote from: mukade on December 04, 2014, 06:01:46 AM
If I understand your comment right, guidelines trump reality? This section of US 412 would also be "wrong": https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1952949,-94.9452078,10z (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1952949,-94.9452078,10z)?
Yes. It should probably be marked as an expressway from the I-44 interchange to the east end of the Cherokee Turnpike, but that would be hard to get approved with as many at-grade intersection as there are. The Goog's priorities really don't apply well to the west and midwest where it isn't worth grade-separating every section line road that has a dozen people living off of it, or building frontage roads for farm driveways with an AADT in the single digits.
QuoteSo how do weird errors keep coming back? Two examples are US 24 from Antwerp to Defiance. This has gone back and forth between freeway and non freeway more than once. It is not a freeway, but it is shown in orange. Compare that to real sections of freeway that are not shown in orange (for example, the ones like US 31 Kokomo which once was shown in orange and others cited in this thread).
US 24 is marked as an expressway from the first at-grade intersection eastward, which is correct. Expressway and freeway both show up in orange, though expressways were yellow for quite a while when they made the change to make arterials white instead of light yellow.
QuoteAnother example is US 52 in Lafayette is another one that is confounding. That route follows Teal Road and the US 231 bypass, not Sagamore Parkway. I am pretty sure it has been shown right in the past, but it is back to being wrong.
There's something corrupt internally that is preventing that getting fixed. Tried to fix that when I fixed IN 25, but it wouldn't submit. it's been reported, so it might get fixed sometime this millennium.
QuoteSo back to US 31 - it is great that Gmaps beats everyone with timely updates, but what are even more important things are accuracy and consistency. It seems like some subjective guidelines trump reality. I'm not talking about errors like we see with Old Meridian. That seems to have been fixed already as noted.
What difference does it make in your driving life if 11 miles of the road is orange vs. yellow? Either way it's obvious that it is the primary N/S route, and directions are going to send you over it. Consistency with the rest of US 31 means it should stay yellow.
When I read this post a few months ago, I was dumbfounded. It seemed inconceivable that what exists in reality is not what GMaps wants to show. Refelecting reality is a reasonable goal when it comes to maps, and is simpler because you don't end up with near as many subjective, inconsistent decisions.
Since that post in December, it does look like GMaps made that section of US 412 (not a freeway) and a large section of US 24 in Ohio (not a freeway) orange. They have US 31 in Hamilton County which is two lanes with a stoplight and at least one curb cut orange. While it seems obvious to me US 31 around Kokomo should be put back to orange, I guess that is not what is going to happen. Maybe they need another color to represent grades of roads.
Anyway, if the US 412 and US 24 logic win the day, then why are these not orange?:
- US 31 from US 30 south to US 24 (or even the southern junction of BR 31)
- Hoosier Heartland corridor: SR 25 from I-65 to US 35/US 24 from the same spot all the way to SR 9 in Huntington
- US 30 from I-469 to Bucyrus
- Illinois 110 (336) from I-172 to Macomb
and I am sure many more.
All of those are expressways (few traffic lights and no curb cuts)
And yes, they still are confounded by the actual routing of US 52 in Lafayette so they're leaving it wrong.
I've been trying to get the 52 error fixed for months, but they refuse to let it go through. Now i'm getting bs errors like "failed geodata" or "unexpected error"
Quote from: silverback1065 on March 01, 2015, 02:46:39 PM
I've been trying to get the 52 error fixed for months, but they refuse to let it go through. Now i'm getting bs errors like "failed geodata" or "unexpected error"
I sympathize - somehow that SR 25 section southwest of town was messed up when I tried to change it. The part west of US 231 needed to stay marked as SR 25 and the part east needed to be marked US 52. The way they have (or had) it was all or nothing. So no matter what you tried to do, it would be wrong. I also tried to get SR 25, SR 26, SR 43, etc. changed many times even supplying photographs. They were either rejected or ignored. MapMaker was a great idea that was very poorly executed by Google.
One last question I have on Google's logic: US 31 from Indianapolis north into Michigan is a major highway. Period. Part of it in Hamilton County north of I-465 where it is under construction (still, four lanes, however) is marked in yellow, but the two lane section from SR 32 to SR 38 is marked in orange. Random. I could see two approaches that make sense:
- Mark all major routes in orange irrespective of grade of the class of the highway, but who defines what major means?
- Mark freeway-standard sections of any road in orange even if they are disconnected from any other freeways
Currently, anything marked as a freeway or an expressway is orange. There is nothing on the main map to distinguish between them. Here are the guidelines for an expressway:
QuoteExpressways
Expressways are high quality roads with few intersections that usually traverse an entire region. These roads are usually quite broad and can be easily identified when zoomed out in satellite imagery.
How to identify an expressway:
- Accessible from both Ramps and intersections, although intersections should be relatively rare and widely spaced.
- Walking or biking not allowed, except in rare cases such as California in the U.S.
- Either single or dual carriageway depending on the country.
US 31 between 116th and 216th and Keystone Parkway from I-465 to US 31 are marked as expressways. US 31 could probably be marked that way all the way to I-465, and probably will be once all the work is done. The portion between IN 32 and IN 38 was 4 lanes and will be again once construction is finished, just down to 2 temporarily so they can repave it, at least from what I remember of the project details.
US 24 in western Ohio is an expressway.
412 is marked as a freeway, which is wrong for part of it. I tried twice to make everything from I-44 to the east end of the Cherokee Turnpike expressway, and Google idiots denied it and made it freeway instead. Lacking sufficient fucks to try again.
US 31 between US 30 and US 24 and US 24/IN 25 are both borderline, and probably on the wrong side of the border. Not enough ramps, and too many intersections, especially around the cities.
US 30 between I-469 and Bucyrus, should be an expressway. Submitted that, let's see what happens.
IL 110 - was waiting for the Macomb bypass to be finished to do that.
We've all been trying to get US 52 fixed for months. There's so much messed up behind the scenes with numbered highways right now. IN 25, 26, and 43 are all now correct I believe. For some definition of correct, anyway, randomly dropping long-distance routes within city limits without requiring the city to maintain through signage kind of defeats the purpose of numbering highways in the first place. Fuck INDOT.
Several of us have asked for a redefinition of expressway to more accurately reflect the type of roads that are actually built in most places in North America where they don't necessarily care about closing off access to some random farm driveways because the traffic volumes are so low. Google seems happy with their current definition, even though it severely limits the number of roads that can actually use it and gives too little differentiation between a high speed 4 lane divided rural highway and a 2 lane 25mph road running through some city's downtown, that just happens to be a US highway.
Sr 23 is also not showing up
Where specifically?
The entire route.
It's messed up too. Fun.
Quote from: dfwmapper on March 02, 2015, 06:13:40 AM
- Walking or biking not allowed, except in rare cases such as California in the U.S.
This could be a problem. The vast majority of surface expressways in the U.S. do allow biking. Picking random examples: Corridor H (signed as a bike route), all of them in Iowa (http://www.iowadot.gov/maps/msp/pdf/bikemap.pdf) (only the freeways marked with alternating red and white ban bikes).
What surface expressways are actually tagged on the Goog? I see Avenue of the Saints, a number in Wisconsin, US 61 in Iowa, US 101 and SR 86 in California, SH 288 from Houston to Angleton (though this might be mistagged as a full freeway), and SR 161-16 from Columbus to Trinway (ditto). To the best of my knowledge, all of these are open to bikes. The only one that comes to mind that definitely bans bikes is US 301 in eastern Maryland (which is tagged as a normal surface road).
Quote from: dfwmapper on March 02, 2015, 06:13:40 AM
US 31 between 116th and 216th and Keystone Parkway from I-465 to US 31 are marked as expressways. US 31 could probably be marked that way all the way to I-465, and probably will be once all the work is done. The portion between IN 32 and IN 38 was 4 lanes and will be again once construction is finished, just down to 2 temporarily so they can repave it, at least from what I remember of the project details.
It requires a little more than repaving, but you are generally right.
Quote from: dfwmapper on March 02, 2015, 06:13:40 AM
US 24 in western Ohio is an expressway.
I agree, it is an expressway, but it certainly does not meet "accessible from both ramps and intersections, although intersections should be relatively rare and widely spaced".
Quote from: dfwmapper on March 02, 2015, 06:13:40 AM
US 31 between US 30 and US 24 and US 24/IN 25 are both borderline, and probably on the wrong side of the border. Not enough ramps, and too many intersections, especially around the cities.
US 31 and US 24 are borderline as they do not meet the standard cited above (as are expressways in most states). SR 25 is not borderline. It is clearly a high grade expressway with numerous overpasses (more overpasses + interchanges than at-grade intersections).
Quote from: dfwmapper on March 02, 2015, 06:13:40 AM
IL 110 - was waiting for the Macomb bypass to be finished to do that.
It still could be marked to Macomb today even though it also fails to meet the "accessible from both ramps and intersections, although intersections should be relatively rare and widely spaced" standard.
How many other map makers have adopted the idea that a freeway or expressway must be connected to other freeways/expressways? I have seen none. Whose idea was that?
SR 25 only has that many overpasses because of the railroad.
There is other stuff to the guidelines, like consistency with other portions of the road, which have been communicated in the past as not wanting little bits of orange floating around when zoomed way out. Specifically cited examples include cases like US 31 around Kokomo and similar where a a road is upgraded to an expressway or freeway for a bypass of a town but is otherwise disconnected from anything else high priority.
Roads currently marked as expressways, right or wrong, are WA 522 between I-405 and US 2, WA 509 between I-5 and I-705, WA 500 from I-5 to past I-205, US 395 between Pasco and I-90, CA 149 south of Chico, CA 99/70 between Sacramento and Yuba City, portions of CA 4 from I-80 east to where the freeway begins, various bits of US 101 between Gilroy and Santa Barbara, CA 198 between CA 99 and Lemoore NAS, the Westside Parkway in Bakersfield, CA 90 west of I-405, CA 71 between CA 60 and I-10, CA 60 between Moreno Valley and Beaumont, CA 86 south from I-10, CA 78/111 Brawley bypass to I-8, the north part of the Las Vegas beltway, UT 7, US 34 east of Loveland (WTF), US 85 from I-70 north, Northwest Parkway, US 6 from CO 58 to I-70, a bit of US 285 west of US 85, a bit of US 85 south of CO 470 (another WTF), everything orange in Colorado Springs except I-25 (fucking Colorado, someone made a mess), a bit of US 50 in Pueblo, NM 599/US 84 around Santa Fe, parts of I-69W and Loop 20 in Laredo, one of the bridges in McAllen, Loop 288 between the freeway portions, US 90A between I-610 and the tollway, part of TX 99 on the east side of Houston, US 287 between I-35W and Rhome, only part of Loop 288 for some reason, US 70 bypass of Durant, Wisconsin has a bunch (US 53, WI 29, US 10, US 151, WI 23, US 141, WI 26), US 61 south of Dubuque, a bit of FL 407, the toll lanes on I-595 (?), FL 878, US 278 on Hilton Head, Sugarloaf Parkway, a bit of US 74 in NC, US 421 southeast of Greensboro, NJ 4/208, NJ 17, the Taconic State Parkway, MA 2, a couple of the expressways in Buffalo, several of the expressways in Ohio. A lot of the Mexican toll toads are too. Not easy to search, it involves doing a lot of dragging around the map.
Quote from: dfwmapper on March 03, 2015, 05:40:54 AM
There is other stuff to the guidelines, like consistency with other portions of the road, which have been communicated in the past as not wanting little bits of orange floating around when zoomed way out.
If they want to do that, they can run an algorithm to eliminate disconnected segments. Or just show only Interstates (when you zoom waaay out Florida's Turnpike disappears...)
Quote from: NE2 on March 02, 2015, 08:10:23 PM
SR 25 only has that many overpasses because of the railroad.
Correct, but the why doesn't matter. It is an expressway.
Quote from: dfwmapper on March 03, 2015, 05:40:54 AM
There is other stuff to the guidelines, like consistency with other portions of the road, which have been communicated in the past as not wanting little bits of orange floating around when zoomed way out. Specifically cited examples include cases like US 31 around Kokomo and similar where a a road is upgraded to an expressway or freeway for a bypass of a town but is otherwise disconnected from anything else high priority.
How many other mapmakers have taken the approach of not recognizing the grades of disconnected segment accurately?
I understand it would be difficult because there are so many factors to consider. It will end up being very subjective with so many things. I would say it might be better to simplify to Interstates only (as suggested) or freeways only. Or have another color represent roads in that gray area.
My last question by example: if i am traveling between Fort Wayne and Toledo, I would take a major highway - US 24. Why would I as a Google Maps user want to see the section between Defiance and Napoleon in a different color simply because that section is just a slightly, almost imperceptibly lower grade than the Antwerp to Defiance section?
I think there's a bug in Map view where freeways that are not an Interstate disappear at far out zoom levels. If you switch to satellite view, it works as it should and all freeways/expressways are visible at the same levels.
Yes, there should be a different color in between freeway and national highway. Maybe red/orange/yellow. But there isn't. For a while, expressways were a slightly more intense yellow than national highways, but then they changed things again and they went back to orange (same time arteries went from pale yellow to white).
Don't ask me why Defiance to Napoleon isn't expressway. I tried to set it as an expressway the entire way between the freeway portions, but it was changed back.
The final public open house for this project will be on March 25th at 5:30pm at Carmel High School if anybody's interested. I'm going to do my best to attend.
Updates on the project will be presented along with updates on related projects in the cities of Carmel and Westfield.
http://us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/1255-2015-OpenHouse_Flier_V5.jpg
Here are the slides from last night's open house presentation:
http://us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/2015-open-house-presentation.pdf
Carmel summer closures:
http://us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/1256-2015-Carmel-Closure-Map_V8_noBar.jpg
Westfield summer closures:
http://us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/1257-2015-Westfield-Closure-Map_V7_noBar.jpg
The Carmel summer schedule basically goes like this (Some of this work will happen concurrently. All work is INDOT unless noted otherwise.):
- Carmel has an ongoing closure of 131st/Main between Penn and Old Meridian while they convert the 2 lane road to a 4 lane "boulevard" Rd. Opening around July.
- Finish installing signage and lighting fixtures at the newly completed interchanges (131st & 136th)
- Add final layer of pavement at ^ as weather allows
- Install new roundabout at the new alignment of Illinois at 106th
- Once ^ is complete, Carmel will re-align Illinois south of 106th and tie in the new portion of Illinois St north of 106th into the new roundabout, completing the Illinois St. extension.
- Finish pavement / configuration at Old Meridian ramp as weather allows
- Add final layer of pavement from Old Meridian to the Keystone Parkway area as weather allows
- Finish Carmel drive bridge and approaches as weather allows
- Carmel will install roundabout at 111th and Penn.
- Finish 111th St. bridge and approaches as weather allows. Should open around the same time as ^
- While all that's going on, finish additional lanes / ramps for 106th and 116th street exits
- As soon as ^ is done, move traffic to additional lanes / ramps and construct the new elevated mainline
- As soon as ^ is done, move traffic to new mainline and complete ramp tie-ins and reconstruct roads from Illinois to Penn at both exits (one at a time). Construction of 116th and Penn roundabout will occur around this time
- As soon as ^ is done, close 103rd permanently. Road will "end in the existing parking lots".
- Construction of northbound ramps from 465 will be ongoing throughout this time. No timeline was given on completion other than "before Thanksgiving", like the rest of the project.
The Westfield summer schedule is slightly less interesting (Some of this work will happen concurrently. All work is INDOT unless noted otherwise.):
- Westfield to install a roundabout at 156th and Spring Mill.
- Begin construction on the northbound side of 31 (traffic is currently on the newly constructed southbound lanes as of January).
- Construct East half of 31/32 interchange. West half opened in January. During this time, traffic going from WB 32 to NB 31 will have to take 31 south to 161st, turn around, and come back north. NB 31 traffic to EB 32 will be taken to 38 (I believe) and will turn around and come back. (They have a map illustrating this detour that hasn't been posted yet).
- Finish interchange at 191st St.
- Westfield constructed roundabout at 191st and Tomlinson to open around the same time as ^
- Once ^ is complete, permanently close off access to local driveway south of 191st st.
- Reconstruct 181st St under 31 (to "remove the hump in the road where 31 used to be").
- Reconstruct 169th St under 31. No mo hump.
- Once everything is complete, the final stoplight at 196th will be removed and access will be closed off permanently
- Cul-de-sacs will be constructed on 196th E and W of the new 31
I probably missed something, but that's the summary of the open house. Pretty informative!
I asked two of the INDOT guys there about the strange curve on SB 31 just N of 465. They both didn't know for sure but one says he thinks it's to slow down the 55mph traffic, preparing them for the 2 SB stoplights at 465 and the one at 96th... basically preparing them to transition to a city street.
http://us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/b_465-106.jpg
Also there will be a 4-way stoplight at the end of the WB 465 ramp to SB 31. There will be another one at the end of the EB -> SB ramp. The snooty Carmel-ites I was standing there with didn't like that saying they "thought there would be no stoplights". Yes, there will be no stoplights north of the 465 interchange... no stoplights coming from SB 31 to 465 or 465 to NB 31. This project is meant to improve traffic flow north of 465, not south.
Quote from: bmeiser on March 26, 2015, 05:11:34 PM
Here are the slides from last night's open house presentation:
http://us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/2015-open-house-presentation.pdf
Carmel summer closures:
http://us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/1256-2015-Carmel-Closure-Map_V8_noBar.jpg
Westfield summer closures:
http://us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/1257-2015-Westfield-Closure-Map_V7_noBar.jpg
The Carmel summer schedule basically goes like this (Some of this work will happen concurrently. All work is INDOT unless noted otherwise.):
- Carmel has an ongoing closure of 131st/Main between Penn and Old Meridian while they convert the 2 lane road to a 4 lane "boulevard" Rd. Opening around July.
- Finish installing signage and lighting fixtures at the newly completed interchanges (131st & 136th)
- Add final layer of pavement at ^ as weather allows
- Install new roundabout at the new alignment of Illinois at 106th
- Once ^ is complete, Carmel will re-align Illinois south of 106th and tie in the new portion of Illinois St north of 106th into the new roundabout, completing the Illinois St. extension.
- Finish pavement / configuration at Old Meridian ramp as weather allows
- Add final layer of pavement from Old Meridian to the Keystone Parkway area as weather allows
- Finish Carmel drive bridge and approaches as weather allows
- Carmel will install roundabout at 111th and Penn.
- Finish 111th St. bridge and approaches as weather allows. Should open around the same time as ^
- While all that's going on, finish additional lanes / ramps for 106th and 116th street exits
- As soon as ^ is done, move traffic to additional lanes / ramps and construct the new elevated mainline
- As soon as ^ is done, move traffic to new mainline and complete ramp tie-ins and reconstruct roads from Illinois to Penn at both exits (one at a time). Construction of 116th and Penn roundabout will occur around this time
- As soon as ^ is done, close 103rd permanently. Road will "end in the existing parking lots".
- Construction of northbound ramps from 465 will be ongoing throughout this time. No timeline was given on completion other than "before Thanksgiving", like the rest of the project.
The Westfield summer schedule is slightly less interesting (Some of this work will happen concurrently. All work is INDOT unless noted otherwise.):
- Westfield to install a roundabout at 156th and Spring Mill.
- Begin construction on the northbound side of 31 (traffic is currently on the newly constructed southbound lanes as of January).
- Construct East half of 31/32 interchange. West half opened in January. During this time, traffic going from WB 32 to NB 31 will have to take 31 south to 161st, turn around, and come back north. NB 31 traffic to EB 32 will be taken to 38 (I believe) and will turn around and come back. (They have a map illustrating this detour that hasn't been posted yet).
- Finish interchange at 191st St.
- Westfield constructed roundabout at 191st and Tomlinson to open around the same time as ^
- Once ^ is complete, permanently close off access to local driveway south of 191st st.
- Reconstruct 181st St under 31 (to "remove the hump in the road where 31 used to be").
- Reconstruct 169th St under 31. No mo hump.
- Once everything is complete, the final stoplight at 196th will be removed and access will be closed off permanently
- Cul-de-sacs will be constructed on 196th E and W of the new 31
I probably missed something, but that's the summary of the open house. Pretty informative!
I asked two of the INDOT guys there about the strange curve on SB 31 just N of 465. They both didn't know for sure but one says he thinks it's to slow down the 55mph traffic, preparing them for the 2 SB stoplights at 465 and the one at 96th... basically preparing them to transition to a city street.
http://us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/b_465-106.jpg
Also there will be a 4-way stoplight at the end of the WB 465 ramp to SB 31. There will be another one at the end of the EB -> SB ramp. The snooty Carmel-ites I was standing there with didn't like that saying they "thought there would be no stoplights". Yes, there will be no stoplights north of the 465 interchange... no stoplights coming from SB 31 to 465 or 465 to NB 31. This project is meant to improve traffic flow north of 465, not south.
This whole corridor is going to be a mess, but it's going to look amazing when it's done! I don't know why those people were surprised, if you are going on 31 you wont have to stop, if you are going on south meridian, you will have to. that's unless you want to make meridian st an interstate. Why is that small piece of Carmel Drive also known as 126th street? Why not just call it carmel drive and remove confusion? Same thing with 136th st vs smokey row road. As to the weird curve, that's exactly what it's for, i remember asking the same thing about the elgin o'hare and got the same answer (this was before the current construction on the highway)
It will be a mess but it sounds like they are going to coordinate the closures in such a way to avoid as much of a mess as possible while still keeping 31 open in both directions. They're also doing their best to have either Pennsylvania or Illinois streets open as a local backup all summer. The plan also is to only have 1 consecutive interchange closed at a time so that drivers will have an option to the north and one to the south of the closure. Interested to see how this all plays out this summer.
Closures of northbound US 31/SR 32 ramps beginning on or after May 6
Quote
- Detour for northbound US 31 to SR 32 (noted in dark blue above) - Motorists traveling northbound on US 31 must continue north to the interchange at SR 38, exit and reenter US 31 going southbound and take the exit from southbound US 31 to SR 32.
Detour for SR 32 to northbound US 31 (noted in green above) - Motorists traveling in either direction on SR 32 must enter US 31 headed southbound to the 161st Street interchange, exit and then reenter US 31 going northbound.
More info and detour map: http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs123/1112548744559/archive/1120688142786.html
I noticed a quick observation this morning on my iPhone. It shows all the interchanges along US 31 in Hamilton County as complete, including the still-being-worked on exits at I-465, 106th, 116th and 191st Streets, plus SR 32 (which is more or less already in its configuration.) A little jarring since those exits are far from complete and Apple doesn't even have the new ramp from WB 465 to SR 65 on its map.
The crossover appears to be on its way soon. Temp signals are up and bagged and the new portions traffic will use appear to almost be done. On another note, is it me or are some of these exits completely redundant? Greyhound pass, old meridian, and rangeline road all seem completely pointless. the rangeline exit has pretty bad weaving issues, almost no distance to merge. Greyhound pass doesn't really need to connect and old meridian can be replaced by 116th to Pennsylvania st easily.
Carmel drive is now open and the crossover should occur sometime this week according to the local news.
Quote from: silverback1065 on July 02, 2015, 10:41:46 PM
The crossover appears to be on its way soon. Temp signals are up and bagged and the new portions traffic will use appear to almost be done. On another note, is it me or are some of these exits completely redundant? Greyhound pass, old meridian, and rangeline road all seem completely pointless. the rangeline exit has pretty bad weaving issues, almost no distance to merge. Greyhound pass doesn't really need to connect and old meridian can be replaced by 116th to Pennsylvania st easily.
As someone that lives in the area and makes use of the above on a regular basis I can assure you that they are far from pointless.
Quote from: cjw2001 on August 17, 2015, 07:53:57 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on July 02, 2015, 10:41:46 PM
The crossover appears to be on its way soon. Temp signals are up and bagged and the new portions traffic will use appear to almost be done. On another note, is it me or are some of these exits completely redundant? Greyhound pass, old meridian, and rangeline road all seem completely pointless. the rangeline exit has pretty bad weaving issues, almost no distance to merge. Greyhound pass doesn't really need to connect and old meridian can be replaced by 116th to Pennsylvania st easily.
As someone that lives in the area and makes use of the above on a regular basis I can assure you that they are far from pointless.
I also live (moved there recently) in the area and use those exits. I shouldn't have said pointless though. Living here now, I do see the reason for the greyhound pass exits (shopping), but I still see rangeline and old meridian as convenient, but not absolutely necessary. I mean if they disappeared now, it wouldn't be the end of the world.
I do see your point now though, they are more for local traffic.
Hamilton County is planning a southbound access from 146th/Lowes Way to Keystone, which will fix the 146th to Keystone access issue. Not going to happen until at least 2018 however. http://www.hamiltoncounty.in.gov/881/Keystone-Ramp (http://www.hamiltoncounty.in.gov/881/Keystone-Ramp)
I'm not sure why they want to connect this to rangeline road, i always thought this was going to be a simple flyover.
The 106th & Illinois St. roundabout is finally open, the annoying 103rd signal is supposed to be gone by next Monday. Carmel Drive has been paved completely. Lane shifts will occur from 96th to 103rd as they start to make the new lanes in that area.
103rd Street closes tonight. Traffic shifts to the east side of 31 starting tomorrow night. The shift is expected to be complete by Friday at which time the 103rd street stoplight will be removed. Traffic will remain in this configuration through November
116th/Pennsylvania will close for 60 days for roundabout construction when the new 111th Street overpass is completed (around Sept 16th).
http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs123/1112548744559/archive/1122180091675.html
Also, I drove the whole project this weekend and things seem to be getting very close to complete up in Westfield. Paving on the east side of the road between 161st st and 196th seems to be nearly (if not completely) done and all bridges in this stretch are in various stages of almost done. Paving on the ramps on the east side of the 191st interchange looks to have begun. I bet this stretch will be open to traffic, at least in limited form, by the end of the month. They still have a layer of pavement to put down on the west side. I'm not sure when they plan on doing that.
The speed at which this is getting done is impressive, I can't wait for the new flyover to open at 465.
Quote from: bmeiser on September 08, 2015, 05:34:12 PM
103rd Street closes tonight. Traffic shifts to the east side of 31 starting tomorrow night. The shift is expected to be complete by Friday at which time the 103rd street stoplight will be removed. Traffic will remain in this configuration through November
116th/Pennsylvania will close for 60 days for roundabout construction when the new 111th Street overpass is completed (around Sept 16th).
http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs123/1112548744559/archive/1122180091675.html
Also, I drove the whole project this weekend and things seem to be getting very close to complete up in Westfield. Paving on the east side of the road between 161st st and 196th seems to be nearly (if not completely) done and all bridges in this stretch are in various stages of almost done. Paving on the ramps on the east side of the 191st interchange looks to have begun. I bet this stretch will be open to traffic, at least in limited form, by the end of the month. They still have a layer of pavement to put down on the west side. I'm not sure when they plan on doing that.
Will the 103rd and Pennsylvania roundabout be removed? It doesn't really serve much of a purpose now. They removed the one at Illinois st.
I haven't heard. I believe 103rd is going to cul-de-sac west of the entrances to the business and there's about a mile or so of 103rd east of that intersection so I suppose it would serve some purpose. Probably would be cheaper to just leave it.
There is no mention in any of the plans for removal of the 103rd and Penn roundabout.
http://us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Sheet1_Carmel1.pdf
Also over the last few days I've gotten all the new ramps added to Google Maps from the 465 interchange up to the 116th interchange, along with the new roundabouts at 106th and 116th. Most of this is in "started" status on mapmaker so the inactive ramps and roundabouts won't be visible yet on the published google maps but they are drawn and ready to go when the time comes for them to go live. 103rd has been marked closed for maintenance for now. I'm holding off on permanent removal until later because the last time I tried that the Google staff just added them back as live roads. Will be better to leave them marked as closed for now until the ramps open so they aren't tempted to screw with it.
I emailed the US 31 website and they said that the 196 street light will be torn out and 191st street exit open in the next few days. Can't wait for this to be done as this section was originally supposed to be completed last Thanksgiving! The crew down at 106th and 116th appear to be working at a much quicker pace than the crew up at 191st/196th.
On a side note, when are the construction cones going to be removed around 146th/161st? There hasn't been any real construction there for a year now, just Westfield/Carmel cops sitting there writing speeding tickets.
Quote from: Bulldozerman on September 24, 2015, 08:03:00 AM
I emailed the US 31 website and they said that the 196 street light will be torn out and 191st street exit open in the next few days. Can't wait for this to be done as this section was originally supposed to be completed last Thanksgiving! The crew down at 106th and 116th appear to be working at a much quicker pace than the crew up at 191st/196th.
On a side note, when are the construction cones going to be removed around 146th/161st? There hasn't been any real construction there for a year now, just Westfield/Carmel cops sitting there writing speeding tickets.
not until the whole thing is done, they don't want random 6 funneling down to 4 lane sections. I'm surprised 196th didn't get a bridge like 111th did.
I just marked the southbound ramps and the roundabout as completed on Google Maps for the new 191st street interchange.
The northbound ramps should open by Saturday per today's newsletter from the state. They will stay invisible til then.
It definitely looked like the northbound lanes would open today. Pavement markings at the tie-ins were removed, the whole thing looked to be striped, in-pavement reflectors were being installed, and final landscaping was being planted. The traffic light at 196th has been removed and access to that last remaining business on US 31 south of 191st St has now been blocked thanks to the 191st St. interchange.
The southern part of the US 31 project from 103rd to north of 116th Street is also looking good with a lot of bridge beams staged and ready to be put in at 116th Street. The only part that seems to be going very slow is that flyover from eastbound I-465 to northbound US 31. There is progress, but it is slow. The westbound I-465 ramp to northbound US 31 is coming along.
On US 31 at SR 28, the venerable Sherrill's Eat Here and get Gas is still open, but the letting for the new interchange there is scheduled for 11/10.
The northbound lanes from 161st to SR 38 are open - I just did a test drive. People are driving like a bat out of hell -- I was going 10 mph over the construction speed limit and getting passed like crazy. On the way back south had someone try to run me off the road by creating their own imaginary lane to pass where none existed in the still single lane section.
I've just removed the intersection at 196th on Google Mapmaker but will take some time before that propagates to Google Maps.
Quote from: cjw2001 on September 26, 2015, 05:46:52 PM
The northbound lanes from 161st to SR 38 are open - I just did a test drive. People are driving like a bat out of hell -- I was going 10 mph over the construction speed limit and getting passed like crazy. On the way back south had someone try to run me off the road by creating their own imaginary lane to pass where none existed in the still single lane section.
I've just removed the intersection at 196th on Google Mapmaker but will take some time before that propagates to Google Maps.
They'll have cops lined up chomping at the bit to give out tickets in no time.
came back through at 10 p.m. tonight headed southbound. Looked like there were still some barrels in the northbound lanes between 146 and 161st.
Now that the northbound lanes are open, I presume work starts Monday on restoring all lanes of southbound traffic.
Quote from: ysuindy on September 26, 2015, 11:41:42 PM
came back through at 10 p.m. tonight headed southbound. Looked like there were still some barrels in the northbound lanes between 146 and 161st.
Now that the northbound lanes are open, I presume work starts Monday on restoring all lanes of southbound traffic.
I hope so, the temporary configuration in that area screws up traffic. I drive 191st today and literally saw 2 people attempt treating the roundabout as a normal intersection (trying to make a left turn as if it were at a typical 4 way stop), resulting in near disaster. I guess it will take some time for people to get used to it, but considering the area I was quite surprised.
Quote from: cjw2001 on September 26, 2015, 05:46:52 PM
The northbound lanes from 161st to SR 38 are open - I just did a test drive. People are driving like a bat out of hell -- I was going 10 mph over the construction speed limit and getting passed like crazy. On the way back south had someone try to run me off the road by creating their own imaginary lane to pass where none existed in the still single lane section.
Doesn't help that the speed limit is insanely low on US 31 - 40 mph for a freeway with decent interchange spacing?
Quote from: Revive 755 on September 27, 2015, 06:36:11 PM
Quote from: cjw2001 on September 26, 2015, 05:46:52 PM
The northbound lanes from 161st to SR 38 are open - I just did a test drive. People are driving like a bat out of hell -- I was going 10 mph over the construction speed limit and getting passed like crazy. On the way back south had someone try to run me off the road by creating their own imaginary lane to pass where none existed in the still single lane section.
Doesn't help that the speed limit is insanely low on US 31 - 40 mph for a freeway with decent interchange spacing?
That is not the real speed limit, its just the construction speed limit. Hopefully the real limit is 60
Was it me, or was there no signage along US 31 from 146th Street northward that mentioned the community of Westfield, even though the signs at I-465 and US 31 (from the west anyway) placed Westfield over Carmel (that one city with the second-largest office district in the state and numerous companies.) I know INDOT doesn't announce communities when I highway goes through them, Kentucky and Tennessee (with two notable exceptions) don't either, but when I pass by SR 32 off of US 31 I'm thinking Westfield, not Lebanon or Noblesville, there's better ways to get to those two highways than 31. Probably more of a control city question than anything else, and I'm from South Indy so there's no bitterness over names one way or the other.
Quote from: tdindy88 on September 27, 2015, 06:45:29 PM
Was it me, or was there no signage along US 31 from 146th Street northward that mentioned the community of Westfield, even though the signs at I-465 and US 31 (from the west anyway) placed Westfield over Carmel (that one city with the second-largest office district in the state and numerous companies.) I know INDOT doesn't announce communities when I highway goes through them, Kentucky and Tennessee (with two notable exceptions) don't either, but when I pass by SR 32 off of US 31 I'm thinking Westfield, not Lebanon or Noblesville, there's better ways to get to those two highways than 31. Probably more of a control city question than anything else, and I'm from South Indy so there's no bitterness over names one way or the other.
They don't have signs, they should have one that says "Westfield exit 132". It doesn't mention Carmel on 31 because that exit is already in Carmel.
It doesn't stop Indianapolis from being mentioned within Indianapolis city limits all over I-465. Junctions with 465 and both I-65 and I-70 all mention Indy and it's well within Marion County.
Looking back, what I think should be needed on I-465 approaching Exit 31 from the west and Exit 33 from the east should be a sign saying "Carmel, next 2 exits.) That is consistent with INDOT signing around the state. Likewise, on US 31 heading north there should be "Carmel, next 5 exits," followed by "Westfield, next 4 exits) and something similar heading southbound. I mean if they go out of their way to mention hospitals and baseball fields, perhaps you should tell people what cities the highway is passing through.
Thinking on that now, I-69 should have a Fishers, next 3 exits sign heading north toward Exit 203 and I-65 south should have a Greenwood, next 3 exits for I-65 approaching Exit 101. These are both accounting for new exits in both areas to be built in the future.
Otherwise, the highway is looking nice.
Some photos of construction on US 31 in Carmel from TODAY.
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5818/21738923896_3f3ac4670a_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/z7ZEGG) (https://flic.kr/p/z7ZEGG) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/133197723@N05/)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5679/21577187268_c2f7379d95_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ySGJ39) (https://flic.kr/p/ySGJ39) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/133197723@N05/)
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/581/21144015943_8c1be6ffdd_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ydqBi2) (https://flic.kr/p/ydqBi2) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/133197723@N05/)
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/737/21142344044_2dda67d8b1_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ydh3ib) (https://flic.kr/p/ydh3ib) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/133197723@N05/)
Flyover construction at the I-465 and US 31 interchange.
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5653/21577203558_0658b9455e_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ySGNT1) (https://flic.kr/p/ySGNT1) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/133197723@N05/)
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/675/21142353564_339702a6b7_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ydh68j) (https://flic.kr/p/ydh68j) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/133197723@N05/)
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/748/21765080995_f1d2120078_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/zaiJia) (https://flic.kr/p/zaiJia) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/133197723@N05/)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5635/21753427212_e6a1240f14_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/z9h12S) (https://flic.kr/p/z9h12S) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/133197723@N05/)
General US 31 construction between I-465 and Keystone Parkway.
according to INDOT "substantial completion is December 2015"
it looks like 116th st is closed now, that's going to be a traffic hazard. The 4way stop at 111th and college will likely be an ordeal. If at area was annexed years ago, it would have been a roundabout. Big mistake by Home Place not letting themselves get annexed by Carmel.
111th overpass has been open since Sunday, so the smart traffic will avoid College and use 111th or Carmel Drive to get to Illinois Street on the other side of US 31 and/or use US 31 to exit at Old Meridian.
http://us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/1275-116th-Penn-Streets-Detour_noBar_V4.jpg
on northbound US 31, there's a 45 MPH speed limit in areas with some construction still ongoing (465 up to 161st street), then a 40 MPH speed light for areas where construction is done (161st street up to 38). How on earth does that make sense?
Quote from: Bulldozerman on September 30, 2015, 05:17:52 PM
on northbound US 31, there's a 45 MPH speed limit in areas with some construction still ongoing (465 up to 161st street), then a 40 MPH speed light for areas where construction is done (161st street up to 38). How on earth does that make sense?
no idea, but it's not permanent.
new ramp from EB 465 to NB US 31 has been paved and part of the approach has been built. one of the bridges on the flyover (one going over 31) appears to be pretty far along. the other bridge not even close. Bridge beams will be placed at 106th st this week. 116th st beams have been mostly placed. every road is open that is supposed to be right now except 116th and Pennsylvania. Hopefully this asphalt issue is resolved and surface is placed at all the completed areas. Not sure when the lane config will go away at SB 31 to SB KP
Us 31 in Westfield will be completely done by November, only minor offline stuff will be done. All lanes will be open and the new speed limit will be posted as well. Look for lane closures at SR 32 and 31 until they finish that area. According to indot the contract will be complete next month in Westfield. http://currentinwestfield.com/2015/u-s-31-construction-nears-end-in-westfield/
That's totally doable. Drove through there yesterday and they were putting the top layer of pavement down on the southbound lanes and on the southbound exit ramps at 191st St. They were about 25% done with that. They'll be done with that by the end of the week. The northbound lanes and all exits are fully open. There's still some work to do at 196th Street and at a local business where they recently closed off access to 31. They're working on removing the pavement from the crossovers in the medians and it looks like they're about to plant a bunch of plants. They'll still have some signage and lighting work to do. The bridges all need permanent lines painted on them.
As for Carmel, the 116th street bridge seems significantly farther along than 106th street. All beams are laid and the approaches are paved. 106th doesn't even have the northbound pier finished. The EB 465 - NB 31 ramp needs a lot of bridge work. The old SB lanes between 96th and 103rd are torn out but that's about it. The final layer of pavement still needs to be laid between Old Meridian and the 146th St area and both sides are still down to 2 lanes in this area. They're finally going to put the top layer of pavement down at the 131st and 136th street interchanges over the next few days. Landscaping operations at these interchanges are supposed to be done by the end of November. If the Carmel section is fully open by the end of the year, I'd be shocked.
Quote from: bmeiser on October 07, 2015, 05:23:44 PM
That's totally doable. Drove through there yesterday and they were putting the top layer of pavement down on the southbound lanes and on the southbound exit ramps at 191st St. They were about 25% done with that. They'll be done with that by the end of the week. The northbound lanes and all exits are fully open. There's still some work to do at 196th Street and at a local business where they recently closed off access to 31. They're working on removing the pavement from the crossovers in the medians and it looks like they're about to plant a bunch of plants. They'll still have some signage and lighting work to do. The bridges all need permanent lines painted on them.
As for Carmel, the 116th street bridge seems significantly farther along than 106th street. All beams are laid and the approaches are paved. 106th doesn't even have the northbound pier finished. The EB 465 - NB 31 ramp needs a lot of bridge work. The old SB lanes between 96th and 103rd are torn out but that's about it. The final layer of pavement still needs to be laid between Old Meridian and the 146th St area and both sides are still down to 2 lanes in this area. They're finally going to put the top layer of pavement down at the 131st and 136th street interchanges over the next few days. Landscaping operations at these interchanges are supposed to be done by the end of November. If the Carmel section is fully open by the end of the year, I'd be shocked.
It would be wonderful if they could at least finish the flyover at 465!
According to the INDOT commissioner, the entire Hamilton County segment will be "open to traffic" in 2015. She also used the word "drivable." Insinuating that the project will be complete enough to be driven upon as intended with some finishing touches to be complete in 2016.
iPhone
http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs123/1112548744559/archive/1122502986124.html
Quote
While some construction in this area is expected to continue into 2016, work is on schedule to meet the goal of having all ramps and interchanges open, and free-flowing freeway traffic on US 31 north of I-465 by the end of this year.
All lanes of US 31 in Westfield will be open by tomorrow! There will be 6 lanes between 146th and 32 and 4 lanes between 32 and 38. Speed limit will still be 40 until INDOT and local law enforcement "determine the safest time to adjust the speed limit to the final 55 mph zone". So... people will continue to fly through there at 80.
Additionally, the final layer of pavement will go in this week between Old Meridian and just north of 136th St. I wonder if they'll open the 3rd lane in this area once that's complete? If so, US 31 will be fully open/completed between Old Meridian and 38, save for a few signs and some minor aesthetic things.
They still plan to have the 106th Street and 116th Street interchanges open this year. I went through on Sunday and they still have a lot of work to do at both interchanges. Not as much as they have left on the 465 interchange which "is on schedule to have all ramps open and accommodate free-flowing... traffic by the end of the year". That flyover is still a bridge to nowhere on both sides.
http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs123/1112548744559/archive/1122644933100.html
Quote from: bmeiser on October 22, 2015, 03:56:10 PM
All lanes of US 31 in Westfield will be open by tomorrow! There will be 6 lanes between 146th and 32 and 4 lanes between 32 and 38. Speed limit will still be 40 until INDOT and local law enforcement "determine the safest time to adjust the speed limit to the final 55 mph zone". So... people will continue to fly through there at 80.
Additionally, the final layer of pavement will go in this week between Old Meridian and just north of 136th St. I wonder if they'll open the 3rd lane in this area once that's complete? If so, US 31 will be fully open/completed between Old Meridian and 38, save for a few signs and some minor aesthetic things.
They still plan to have the 106th Street and 116th Street interchanges open this year. I went through on Sunday and they still have a lot of work to do at both interchanges. Not as much as they have left on the 465 interchange which "is on schedule to have all ramps open and accommodate free-flowing... traffic by the end of the year". That flyover is still a bridge to nowhere on both sides.
http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs123/1112548744559/archive/1122644933100.html
Mainline 31 @ 465 was paved earlier this week, they may cross over traffic soon to do the other side. Main and 136th are paved, most signs are up and landscaping continues. It really angers me that the final speed limit is going to be 55 it should be 65. Doesn't matter anyway, noone will go 55 to begin with.
Wow, they paved by 465 fast! It was just graded dirt when I went by on Sunday. Wonder if they will open the new EB 465 to SB Meridian ramp when they switch traffic over if they need to wait for the flyover to be done for some reason to do that.
I saw that they had finished paving the Main and 136th street interchanges last week so I figured mainline paving was next. I've been going by weekly and have been amazed at how fast they've been progressing lately.
The weather has certainly been ideal for road construction. 0.19 inches of rain so far in October, 1.70 inches in September and 1.55 inches in August. Average for each month is 3.12 or 3.13 inches.
the closed 3rd lane of 31 is paved from main st north, and e&b is still out there, so i'm assuming lots of paving tonight.
Official INDOT press release on the opening of the Westfield portion yesterday, the first part of which sounds like a brochure issued by the Westfield Tourist Office: http://content.govdelivery.com/bulletins/gd/INDOT-120a7a5 (http://content.govdelivery.com/bulletins/gd/INDOT-120a7a5)
I assume the 15 minutes of travel time saved between Westfield and Indy will happen when the whole project through Carmel and onto 465 is done.
Farther down are some interesting facts and figures:
QuoteWhen the final six-mile contract in Carmel is open to traffic, a total of 32 traffic signals will have been removed from U.S. 31 between Indianapolis and South Bend, increasing safety and saving a half hour of travel time.
INDOT plans to open bids in November for a new U.S. 31 interchange to replace the traffic signal at State Road 28 near Tipton. Construction of the roundabout interchange is anticipated to begin early next year, and should open to traffic by the end of 2016.
I think the 30 minute reduction in travel time may be an underestimate.
Quote from: theline on October 23, 2015, 01:40:57 PM
Official INDOT press release on the opening of the Westfield portion yesterday, the first part of which sounds like a brochure issued by the Westfield Tourist Office: http://content.govdelivery.com/bulletins/gd/INDOT-120a7a5 (http://content.govdelivery.com/bulletins/gd/INDOT-120a7a5)
I assume the 15 minutes of travel time saved between Westfield and Indy will happen when the whole project through Carmel and onto 465 is done.
Farther down are some interesting facts and figures:
QuoteWhen the final six-mile contract in Carmel is open to traffic, a total of 32 traffic signals will have been removed from U.S. 31 between Indianapolis and South Bend, increasing safety and saving a half hour of travel time.
INDOT plans to open bids in November for a new U.S. 31 interchange to replace the traffic signal at State Road 28 near Tipton. Construction of the roundabout interchange is anticipated to begin early next year, and should open to traffic by the end of 2016.
I think the 30 minute reduction in travel time may be an underestimate.
When you factor in the real speed people will drive at, it will be much more time saved than what they're saying.
Speaking of speed: drove through yesterday after work and the speed limit is already 55 in both directions north of 146th. For once, I was actually passing people. Seems people didn't notice the new speed limit and were strangely police-cautious.
Quote from: bmeiser on October 23, 2015, 02:44:25 PM
Speaking of speed: drove through yesterday after work and the speed limit is already 55 in both directions north of 146th. For once, I was actually passing people. Seems people didn't notice the new speed limit and were strangely police-cautious.
They'll be out in full force I suspect. Watch out they love to hide under the 166th st bridge.
I completely agree. It used to take me five hours to get from Grand Rapids to the south side of Indianapolis. Now I can do it three hours and 45 minutes.
I think the 30 minute reduction in travel time may be an underestimate.
[/quote]
E&b was paving like crazy over the weekend surface is on 2 out of 3 lanes, mainline 31 near 465 will get curb and gutter this week. The ramp to 465 is mostly open now, and the barrier wall should be poured soon on the flyover. Does anyone know why there's a random section of concrete just north of the old meridian exit? I assume it will be covered with asphalt soon.
Quote from: cjw2001 on September 28, 2015, 02:16:31 PM
111th overpass has been open since Sunday, so the smart traffic will avoid College and use 111th or Carmel Drive to get to Illinois Street on the other side of US 31 and/or use US 31 to exit at Old Meridian.
http://us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/1275-116th-Penn-Streets-Detour_noBar_V4.jpg
So according to the carmel paper, there is a temporary signal at 111th and college. I think the only reason why that intersection isn't a roundabout is because that intersection isn't in carmel.
I was on US-31 last week en route to Nashville. I took some southbound photos:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asphaltplanet.ca%2FIN%2FUS%2F31%2FUS31_IN_dv_129-2_south_Oct15_forum.jpg&hash=89fb4eaffc5d53cbcb2e4dc64e500d973f772438)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asphaltplanet.ca%2FIN%2FUS%2F31%2FUS31_IN_dv_128-9_south_Oct15_forum.jpg&hash=8fa5528838600b8aec0998a5f7dc1f91da71763a)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asphaltplanet.ca%2FIN%2FUS%2F31%2FUS31_IN_dv_127_south_Oct15_forum.jpg&hash=d81a282bce999dbce2d46c78c574fd16905af982)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asphaltplanet.ca%2FIN%2FUS%2F31%2FUS31_IN_dv_126-9_south_Oct15_forum.jpg&hash=d4ee072b1697e292651d0d94ba63943fda113f4c)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asphaltplanet.ca%2FIN%2FUS%2F31%2FUS31_IN_dv_125_south_Oct15_forum.jpg&hash=92422b6b5e2a0c9ed1d3de88a3be7fd8f7d4249c)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asphaltplanet.ca%2FIN%2FUS%2F31%2FUS31_IN_dv_125_south_Oct15_structure_forum.jpg&hash=36a360647a2cf6889d98a3dc61b561c94459f7a6)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asphaltplanet.ca%2FIN%2FUS%2F31%2FUS31_IN_dv_124_south_Oct15_forum.jpg&hash=737ffcad445885491665eceb6cf2cb3c2794313c)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asphaltplanet.ca%2FIN%2FUS%2F31%2FUS31_IN_dv_124_south_structure_Oct15_forum.jpg&hash=2adb95f102c5e456532f88d426392feb96826970)
They've been paving like crazy the past few days, even overnight.
Quote from: silverback1065 on October 27, 2015, 08:06:26 PM
Quote from: cjw2001 on September 28, 2015, 02:16:31 PM
111th overpass has been open since Sunday, so the smart traffic will avoid College and use 111th or Carmel Drive to get to Illinois Street on the other side of US 31 and/or use US 31 to exit at Old Meridian.
http://us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/1275-116th-Penn-Streets-Detour_noBar_V4.jpg
So according to the carmel paper, there is a temporary signal at 111th and college. I think the only reason why that intersection isn't a roundabout is because that intersection isn't in carmel.
Went through there on Saturday afternoon. There are no turn lanes at this intersection, so the traffic signal is green for only one of the four directions at a time.
Quote from: ysuindy on November 02, 2015, 04:06:11 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on October 27, 2015, 08:06:26 PM
Quote from: cjw2001 on September 28, 2015, 02:16:31 PM
111th overpass has been open since Sunday, so the smart traffic will avoid College and use 111th or Carmel Drive to get to Illinois Street on the other side of US 31 and/or use US 31 to exit at Old Meridian.
http://us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/1275-116th-Penn-Streets-Detour_noBar_V4.jpg
So according to the carmel paper, there is a temporary signal at 111th and college. I think the only reason why that intersection isn't a roundabout is because that intersection isn't in carmel.
Went through there on Saturday afternoon. There are no turn lanes at this intersection, so the traffic signal is green for only one of the four directions at a time.
I went there too, it's just a crappy 4way stop signal, I'm sure it will be a roundabout whenever Carmel feels like gobbling up home place.
I think US 31 should be completely freeway from Indianapolis to South Bend. It probably will be eventually.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on November 02, 2015, 04:51:50 PM
I think US 31 should be completely freeway from Indianapolis to South Bend. It probably will be eventually.
That's the plan, money is the only thing holding indot back.
There's never enough money to do what needs to be done. Roads are no exception.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on November 02, 2015, 04:51:50 PM
I think US 31 should be completely freeway from Indianapolis to South Bend. It probably will be eventually.
I'll repeat what I've said before: Yes, it would be nice if the remaining parts of US 31 were made freeway, but expanding I-65 and I-70 to six lanes will do more for improving travel times and safety than converting the rural parts of 31.
I would consider two factors on US 31. I would bet there a pretty high number of fatalities is per capita on it. Secondly, although travel is much faster than even two years ago, it has the lowest average speed limit of all the spokes coming out from Indy.
I think the best compromise would be to make US 31 a freeway to Kokomo and then get rid of the last four stoplights in Miami County. If they could make the freeway portions 70 MPH and the rest 65 MPH, that would probably be good enough.
I absolutely agree that I-65 and I-70 need widening, but that could be done incrementally. I-65 needs widening thru the state, but probably most from Merrillville to Lowell, Franklin to Columbus, and from SR 160 south to Memphis. I-70 east of US 231 could stand to be six lanes, but SR 39 to SR 267 and Mt. Comfort Road to SR 9 would be the most important sections. West of US 231 is less busy.
In all honesty, I-69 from Pendleton to Daleville (assuming the SR 37 to to Pendleton widening is done), Jefferson to I-469, and Auburn to SR 1 urgently need widening as well.
I'm not sure about which thread this should go under, but I was able to view the signage plans for the new US 31 and SR 28 interchange in Tipton County and saw that that exit will be Exit 148.
Quote from: mukade on November 03, 2015, 06:36:31 PM
I would consider two factors on US 31. I would bet there a pretty high number of fatalities is per capita on it. Secondly, although travel is much faster than even two years ago, it has the lowest average speed limit of all the spokes coming out from Indy.
I think the best compromise would be to make US 31 a freeway to Kokomo and then get rid of the last four stoplights in Miami County. If they could make the freeway portions 70 MPH and the rest 65 MPH, that would probably be good enough.
I absolutely agree that I-65 and I-70 need widening, but that could be done incrementally. I-65 needs widening thru the state, but probably most from Merrillville to Lowell, Franklin to Columbus, and from SR 160 south to Memphis. I-70 east of US 231 could stand to be six lanes, but SR 39 to SR 267 and Mt. Comfort Road to SR 9 would be the most important sections. West of US 231 is less busy.
In all honesty, I-69 from Pendleton to Daleville (assuming the SR 37 to to Pendleton widening is done), Jefferson to I-469, and Auburn to SR 1 urgently need widening as well.
You could also add the proposal to make US 231 at least a divided highway throughout the entire state, like it is south of I-64. But I feel this is the lowest of low priority
The new EB 465 - SB Meridian ramp is opening this evening. It will also serve as the ramp to NB US 31 until the flyover is complete. This will permanently remove the old EB 465 to Meridian / 31 ramp on the south side of the interchange. I suspect this means that the paving is done in the southbound US 31 lanes and they will be opening once they re-pave where the old ramp crossed the southbound lanes. They were getting close when I went through last Saturday.
http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs123/1112548744559/archive/1122861759307.html
Quote from: bmeiser on November 13, 2015, 11:18:51 AM
The new EB 465 - SB Meridian ramp is opening this evening. It will also serve as the ramp to NB US 31 until the flyover is complete. This will permanently remove the old EB 465 to Meridian / 31 ramp on the south side of the interchange. I suspect this means that the paving is done in the southbound US 31 lanes and they will be opening once they re-pave where the old ramp crossed the southbound lanes. They were getting close when I went through last Saturday.
http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs123/1112548744559/archive/1122861759307.html
Google Maps still shows the old ramp. Could one of you with the appropriate powers please submit an update before my OCD kicks in? :bigass:
Even friggin Apple Maps has it right (although they also show the flyover that isn't open yet).
i believe tdindy88 is the Google MapMaker guru here.
No, I'm afraid I'm not. I know absolutely nothing about Google MapMaker. And if you want to talk about OCD, Apple Maps has not updated the new flyover ramp from WB I-465 to SB I-65 which has been opened for something like A YEAR.
Hmm maybe it's mukade
Nexus 6P
Quote from: tdindy88 on November 20, 2015, 05:05:28 PM
No, I'm afraid I'm not. I know absolutely nothing about Google MapMaker. And if you want to talk about OCD, Apple Maps has not updated the new flyover ramp from WB I-465 to SB I-65 which has been opened for something like A YEAR.
You'd think they'd wonder why cars are driving way off the road all the time
Working on it. cjw2001 and I are both active on MM, though he's the one who's local to Indy.
Quote from: dfwmapper on November 20, 2015, 10:39:50 PM
Working on it. cjw2001 and I are both active on MM, though he's the one who's local to Indy.
Yes I went to mark it open this morning and dfwmapper had already done it. Would have done it sooner but was out of town on business all week and super busy. The edit is pending google approval which should likely happen tonight.
The new ramp was approved in mapmaker and should show up on maps sometime later today once the data replicates over. The old ramp was also removed.
Awesome, thanks!
I can confirm, the ramp is added:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F9mV8WLA.png&hash=56c49dd249c9d60e220491bf5ba5410da2816681)
Wrong interchange
Nexus 6P
We're talking about the EB I-465 to US-31 ramp on the north side. Looks to still be propagating through the internets:
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2029769/pictures/roads/Screenshot%202015-11-23%2010.40.37.png)
My bad. I was mistaken, as I thought you meant the ramp that turns out it was actually missing on Apple, not Google, Maps.
It is changed in mapmaker but it is taking longer than usual to propagate out to maps. Should show up eventually.
Finally showed up. (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9302991,-86.1572065,17.19z?hl=en) That took much longer than usual.
116th and Pennsylvania roundabout is now open, fully signed, paved and striped. I think this literally just happened, just drove it on the way home. Map maker gurus on here can add that back now.
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 25, 2015, 09:01:54 PM
116th and Pennsylvania roundabout is now open, fully signed, paved and striped. I think this literally just happened, just drove it on the way home. Map maker gurus on here can add that back now.
It's already been mapped for two months now, I just set it to started mode at that time so to make it invisible. I marked it completed as soon as I got the newsletter from the state that it was open.
With the weather we are having, this could all be open for traffic ahead of schedule.
Nexus 6P
is there a reason why there is no lighting on mainline 31? was this a cost cutting measure? I feel like they should have at least added lights up to SR 32. All I see is the occasional interchange tower light.
http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs123/1112548744559/archive/1123159916614.html
QuoteUS 31 lane restriction between 106th Street and 126th Street/Carmel Drive today, Dec. 11
Through 4:30 p.m. today, Dec. 11, motorists should expect the inside, left lane of northbound US 31 to be restricted between 106th Street and 126th Street/Carmel Drive. Crews are removing barrier wall and placing pavement markings to prepare for an upcoming traffic shift.
"Upcoming traffic shift" = opening the mainline between 103rd and Old Meridian? :hmmm:
Quote from: bmeiser on December 11, 2015, 10:26:28 AM
http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs123/1112548744559/archive/1123159916614.html
QuoteUS 31 lane restriction between 106th Street and 126th Street/Carmel Drive today, Dec. 11
Through 4:30 p.m. today, Dec. 11, motorists should expect the inside, left lane of northbound US 31 to be restricted between 106th Street and 126th Street/Carmel Drive. Crews are removing barrier wall and placing pavement markings to prepare for an upcoming traffic shift.
"Upcoming traffic shift" = opening the mainline between 103rd and Old Meridian? :hmmm:
If this is supposed to be open by end of year that would be the only thing that makes sense.
Yes, all of the new US 31 construction should all be "drivable" (INDOT commissioner's words) by the end of the year.
They were removing all of the temporary concrete barriers from around old Meridian to near I-465. I assume the mainline will open today or tomorrow, but there was still a gantry laying on the road at 106th Street. The new US 31 mainline south of Old Meridian was mostly striped, and it looked like final paving had been done - which is surprising to me. Last Sunday they were paving, and i suspect they laid pavement every day this past week. From Old Meridian north, they removed the temporary lane markings today that have co-existed with the final striping the last few weeks. The northbound left lane is now open so that section looks very good now.
The two major problem areas I noticed are:
1) The flyover from EB I-465 to NB US 31 where the concrete barriers are yet to be poured. They were paving the ramp today, however. I suspect they could pour the concrete even if the temperatures are colder so it could be open late this year.
2) The roundabouts at 106th and 116th Streets at the US 31 ramps - obviously, those will not be complete until Spring, but they were also working on those today as the temperature was 68 when I drove back through there in the afternoon.
I'd say mainline opening is imminent, likely by the end of the week, it's fully striped.
US 31 today north of 465 is down to one lane each direction as I type. They have semis and payloaders pulling out the K rails all over!
It may be open VERY soon.
Announcement from the state (http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs123/1112548744559/archive/1123197249977.html):
US 31 traffic shifts, delays in Carmel Dec. 15-17US 31 traffic should be alert and anticipate added delays between I-465 and 131st Street as crews implement traffic pattern changes and pavement marking adjustments today, Dec. 15, through Thursday, Dec. 17.
- Northbound and southbound US 31 may be restricted to one lane in each direction while pavement markings are adjusted during daytime/evening hours.
- Northbound US 31 traffic will shift onto new bridges over 106th and 116th streets tomorrow, Dec. 16. Southbound traffic is anticipated to make a similar shift on Thursday, Dec. 17. These traffic shifts will open the freeway to three lanes in each direction and effectively remove the final two traffic signals from US 31 through Carmel.
- After the traffic shift on Dec. 16, motorists wishing to access 106th Street from northbound US 31 must do so via the new exit ramp just north of I-465.
- Drivers headed to I-465 from southbound US 31 will use the new ramp over 106th Street.
Both the eastbound and westbound I-465 exit ramps to northbound US 31 and southbound Meridian Street are anticipated to be widened to two lanes at the end of this week.
All ramps at the I-465/US 31 interchange, including two new free-flowing ramps from I-465 to northbound US 31, are anticipated to be open to traffic and in their final configurations by the end of the year.
great news! can't wait for the flyover to open.
I'll be driving this on Sunday morning so I'm looking forward to seeing how this is progressing.
Northbound mainline opened on schedule today. Just drove the new 106th/116th overpass segments on the way home from dinner. The exit for 106th is still in the temporary construction crossover position where 103rd street used to cross and not the final position further south.
Southbound mainline should open tomorrow.
Still work to be done to get the interchange at 465 ready by end of year.
Southbound mainline is fully open now for the 116th and 106th overpasses. Southbound Meridian Street traffic has also shifted to the new pavement on the west side of the roadway including the new zig zag in the road to slow traffic where the freeway ends. The northbound Meridian Street to eastbound I465 ramp entrance has been moved to the final position with the dedicated ramp entrance from westbound 96th also open.
I'm seeing additional progress on the westbound I465 to US 31 ramp with new signage installed but that ramp is not yet open. Northbound traffic to US 31 is still using what will be the ramp to southbound Meridian for now. Work also continues on the eastbound I465 to US 31 flyover ramp.
Traffic from Northbound Meridian/US 31 to 106th is still using a temporary ramp entrance where 103rd street used to cross. The roundabouts interchanges at 106th and 116th still need a lot of work and probably won't fully be completed until spring. Still stoplights at the end of the ramps for now.
I've now updated Google Maps to set the entire length of the reconstructed US 31 to freeway priority. Northbound edit approved, southbound edit still pending approval. Still have more work to do to get all the ramps marked with the correct priority and still have some segments showing up as closed that I'm working on getting marked as completed. Also need to make some priority and name adjustments on Meridian Street south of where the freeway ends. Edits on high priority roads can take some time to get approved but we are getting there.
The zig zag needs some work too (in map maker), it's not curved enough, just looks like a straight line with a kink in it.
Nexus 6P
Quote from: silverback1065 on December 18, 2015, 10:25:57 AM
The zig zag needs some work too (in map maker), it's not curved enough, just looks like a straight line with a kink in it.
Nexus 6P
Still fighting with Google on that one. I add it, they take it back out, I add it back. I'll worry about the fine tuning once I win that battle. :banghead: I'm taking a day off from work today so I'll have more time to make further adjustments.
Quote from: cjw2001 on December 18, 2015, 10:28:34 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on December 18, 2015, 10:25:57 AM
The zig zag needs some work too (in map maker), it's not curved enough, just looks like a straight line with a kink in it.
Nexus 6P
Still fighting with Google on that one. I add it, they take it back out, I add it back. I'll worry about the fine tuning once I win that battle. :banghead:
I understand, the map maker mods are a pain in the ass, their first method of action to almost all changes is "nope he's wrong".
Quote from: silverback1065 on December 18, 2015, 10:29:34 AM
Quote from: cjw2001 on December 18, 2015, 10:28:34 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on December 18, 2015, 10:25:57 AM
The zig zag needs some work too (in map maker), it's not curved enough, just looks like a straight line with a kink in it.
Nexus 6P
Still fighting with Google on that one. I add it, they take it back out, I add it back. I'll worry about the fine tuning once I win that battle. :banghead:
I understand, the map maker mods are a pain in the ass, their first method of action to almost all changes is "nope he's wrong".
Hey there, I'm one of those Regional Lead moderators now - be nice :biggrin:. Google understood that changes were needed and things have improved since Google empowered the new Regional Leads earlier this year to approve more of the user edits without Google intervention. The Regional Leads will still enforce the ground rules but are much more likely to understand what is going on since we are local and not on the other side of the planet.
As a trusted Regional Lead I'm also able to make most of my edits without Google approval, which is why I was able to immediately put the zig zag back when they took it out last night.
Half the battle of editing in mapmaker is understanding Google's ground rules and definitions and providing good comments for the moderators as to why you are making the changes you are doing. Google still does some bad edits from afar but that is usually due to them working from outdated image data. If you document in your comments what you are doing and why, mention that the sat data is out of date, and have a good approval history you can get quite a bit done. I mapped almost all the new interchanges on US 31 and most of the related changes to local roads affected by the project over the last several years, which is why Google maps has been kept up to date so quickly as the US 31 project progressed.
Quote from: cjw2001 on December 18, 2015, 10:45:38 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on December 18, 2015, 10:29:34 AM
Quote from: cjw2001 on December 18, 2015, 10:28:34 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on December 18, 2015, 10:25:57 AM
The zig zag needs some work too (in map maker), it's not curved enough, just looks like a straight line with a kink in it.
Nexus 6P
Still fighting with Google on that one. I add it, they take it back out, I add it back. I'll worry about the fine tuning once I win that battle. :banghead:
I understand, the map maker mods are a pain in the ass, their first method of action to almost all changes is "nope he's wrong".
Hey there, I'm one of those Regional Lead moderators now - be nice :biggrin:. Google understood that changes were needed and things have improved since Google empowered the new Regional Leads earlier this year to approve more of the user edits without Google intervention. The Regional Leads will still enforce the ground rules but are much more likely to understand what is going on since we are local and not on the other side of the planet.
As a trusted Regional Lead I'm also able to make most of my edits without Google approval, which is why I was able to immediately put the zig zag back when they took it out last night.
Half the battle of editing in mapmaker is understanding Google's ground rules and definitions and providing good comments for the moderators as to why you are making the changes you are doing. Google still does some bad edits from afar but that is usually due to them working from outdated image data. If you document in your comments what you are doing and why, mention that the sat data is out of date, and have a good approval history you can get quite a bit done. I mapped almost all the new interchanges on US 31 and most of the related changes to local roads affected by the project over the last several years, which is why Google maps has been kept up to date so quickly as the US 31 project progressed.
How do you become a regional mod? Also, can you fix US 52 in lafayette? They refuse to accept my edits.
Quote from: silverback1065 on December 18, 2015, 10:25:57 AM
The zig zag needs some work too (in map maker), it's not curved enough, just looks like a straight line with a kink in it.
Nexus 6P
I've added some slight curves at the appropriate places, likely will be late today or tomorrow before it shows up on maps.
Quote from: silverback1065 on December 18, 2015, 10:48:31 AM
How do you become a regional mod? Also, can you fix US 52 in lafayette? They refuse to accept my edits.
No one can fix US 52 in Lafayette. There are a couple a half-submitted edits in the system blocking name changes on both Teal and Sagamore, and there's no way to get rid of those. Trust me, we've tried.
Article in the IndyStar today about US31's opening in Hamilton County.
http://www.indystar.com/story/news/local/hamilton-county/2015/12/18/state-opens-us-31-through-carmel/77553678/
I drove through today and it's pretty nice. They've left a layer of blacktop off for the winter until, I assume, everything is done between 96th and 103rd. The northbound exit for 106th still isn't in the final configuration and they haven't moved northbound to the new southbound lanes at 96th st yet. There was significant work going on on the flyover today including pouring concrete for the side walls. As long as the weather allows it, I don't see any issue having that open by the end of the year.
Quote from: dfwmapper on December 18, 2015, 01:02:41 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on December 18, 2015, 10:48:31 AM
How do you become a regional mod? Also, can you fix US 52 in lafayette? They refuse to accept my edits.
No one can fix US 52 in Lafayette. There are a couple a half-submitted edits in the system blocking name changes on both Teal and Sagamore, and there's no way to get rid of those. Trust me, we've tried.
IMO, the only fix I can think of is to make US 52 concurrent with I-65 to US 24 at Remington, and US 52 between US 41 and Lafayette can either be a rerouted US 231 or given a state route number.
There is no reason that I can think of, other than the plants shutting down for the winter, for why they didn't put surface down for the part that just opened.
Quote from: cjw2001 on December 18, 2015, 10:23:31 AM
I've now updated Google Maps to set the entire length of the reconstructed US 31 to freeway priority. Northbound edit approved, southbound edit still pending approval. Still have more work to do to get all the ramps marked with the correct priority and still have some segments showing up as closed that I'm working on getting marked as completed. Also need to make some priority and name adjustments on Meridian Street south of where the freeway ends. Edits on high priority roads can take some time to get approved but we are getting there.
Now doing the back and forth dance with Google on whether this is a Freeway or not. :banghead: Was all approved for Freeway and then reverted this afternoon. Now have 1/2 back as freeway and waiting on approval on the other half. So don't be surprised to see it 1/2 freeway color and 1/2 non freeway on Google Maps tomorrow. I have the advantage of persistence, after getting one bad google moderator the next one that reviews is likely to be better. Likely it will be Monday before it's fixed since they don't usually review on the weekends.
When I drove the westbound exit from 465 tonight it was opened back up to two lanes. More progress.
Quote from: Lyon Wonder on December 18, 2015, 05:06:54 PM
IMO, the only fix I can think of is to make US 52 concurrent with I-65 to US 24 at Remington, and US 52 between US 41 and Lafayette can either be a rerouted US 231 or given a state route number.
2 separate problems here. One is that Google Map Maker is a buggy piece of crap that allows edits to get stuck in a state where they can't be approved, undone, or deleted but still block other changes to the same attributes. The other is that Indiana doesn't have a way to designate a state route over a road that isn't owned by the state. The optimal solution would have been to transfer Sagamore to the locals but leave US 52 designated over it. I guess there's a third problem, that AASHTO let them do it instead of telling them they had to leave it on a good route like Sagamore or reroute it away from Lafayette.
I see google maps has effectively fucked up 31 now.
Quote from: silverback1065 on December 21, 2015, 07:30:13 AM
I see google maps has effectively fucked up 31 now.
It is all there, just the priority on Northbound is set wrong (as I mentioned above). A change is pending approval to set it back to correct priority.
103rd street is gone now, the southbound approach to Meridian has been changed to an exit ramp, and the highway interchange segments are now the correct priority so those are rendering with the right colors. Two steps forward one step back. Making changes on something this complex is a marathon not a sprint as each change requires approvals. Occasionally a clueless google editor will make things incorrect (like reverting the priority back to National Highway from Freeway). In the end, we will get it where it needs to be.
US 31 is now set at Expressway priority in Google Maps which is close enough for now.
I'll make another run at setting it to Freeway priority once the final ramps open.
Northbound Meridian to 106th street ramp is open in the final position now. Updated in Google Maps but likely won't be visible until tomorrow.
Quote from: cjw2001 on December 18, 2015, 08:51:36 PM
Quote from: cjw2001 on December 18, 2015, 10:23:31 AM
I've now updated Google Maps to set the entire length of the reconstructed US 31 to freeway priority. Northbound edit approved, southbound edit still pending approval. Still have more work to do to get all the ramps marked with the correct priority and still have some segments showing up as closed that I'm working on getting marked as completed. Also need to make some priority and name adjustments on Meridian Street south of where the freeway ends. Edits on high priority roads can take some time to get approved but we are getting there.
Now doing the back and forth dance with Google on whether this is a Freeway or not. :banghead: Was all approved for Freeway and then reverted this afternoon. Now have 1/2 back as freeway and waiting on approval on the other half. So don't be surprised to see it 1/2 freeway color and 1/2 non freeway on Google Maps tomorrow. I have the advantage of persistence, after getting one bad google moderator the next one that reviews is likely to be better. Likely it will be Monday before it's fixed since they don't usually review on the weekends.
When I drove the westbound exit from 465 tonight it was opened back up to two lanes. More progress.
Could you end the freeway designation at 96th Street for Keystone Avenue? Google maps currently shows Keystone as a freeway all the way down to 86th Street. Thanks.
Keystone is not set as Freeway. It is set to Expressway, which allows for a few isolated stop lights along the path. The current path meets Google's definition (https://support.google.com/mapmaker/answer/1098056) for Expressway priority.
Quote from: cjw2001 on December 23, 2015, 10:45:27 PM
Keystone is not set as Freeway. It is set to Expressway, which allows for a few isolated stop lights along the path. The current path meets Google's definition (https://support.google.com/mapmaker/answer/1098056) for Expressway priority.
It looks identical to a freeway. If that is the standard for expressway then why isn't SR 67 around Muncie red? Or U.S. 231 south of I-64? Or SR 641? Or the Vincennes bypass? Or SR 25 between Lafayette and Logansport? Or the Airport Expressway? Or South Shadeland? Rand McNally colors these roads the same freeways.
It's simply irritating that freeways and expressways are the same color in Google Maps.
From Google's definition for Expressway "Accessible from both ramps and intersections, although intersections should be relatively rare and widely spaced."
For 67, at grade intersections are frequent. For Keystone Parkway intersections are limited to 96th and 1/2 the ramps at 465.
Quote from: cjw2001 on December 23, 2015, 11:05:27 PM
From Google's definition for Expressway "Accessible from both ramps and intersections, although intersections should be relatively rare and widely spaced."
For 67, at grade intersections are frequent. For Keystone Parkway intersections are limited to 96th and 1/2 the ramps at 465.
The examples suggested by hoosierguy all meet the expressway definition you cited. The part of SR 67 he is referring to is the old SR 67 interchange all the way up to McGalliard Road. That is a mix of interchanges and a few intersections. I would maintain US 41 around Vincennes is a freeway. SR 641 is absolutely a freeway as is a good chunk of the Lloyd Expressway in Evansville. You can easily confirm these in satellite view. It might be worth comparing what the Rand McNally road atlas and the official state map show as a good sanity check.
Hoosier heartland fits this as well.
Nexus 7
Just drove by the new ramp for 465 westbound to us 31 northbound -- the current exit was temporarily down to one lane while operations were in progress to put down the lane markings for the new exit. I'd say opening of the new ramp is eminent, maybe yet today. :clap:
Confirmed
I-465 ramps to northbound US 31 opening today, Dec. 29Crews are currently working to open the new free-flowing ramps from eastbound and westbound I-465 to northbound US 31. Click here (http://us31hamiltoncounty.in.gov/individual-interchanges/i-465/) to see an illustration of the new US 31/I-465 interchange with these ramp movements.
After opening these ramps, all lanes and interchanges on the new US 31 Hamilton County freeway will be open to traffic in the final configurations.
- The new eastbound I-465 ramp to northbound US 31 exits to the right and carries traffic on a flyover bridge over Meridian Street and I-465 before merging with northbound US 31.
- The new westbound I-465 ramp to northbound US 31 bypasses the traffic signal and is located to the right of the current ramp.
- Motorists exiting I-465 to southbound Meridian Street will use the left sides of the exit ramps, which will be modified for additional capacity.
Traffic on northbound Meridian Street exiting to 106th Street now follows a new ramp that passes underneath the two new ramps opening today, eliminating weaving and merging in the heavily traveled area.
Final work on US 31 continues in 2016Construction along the corridor is expected to continue in 2016 as crews complete the US 31/Meridian Street transition underneath I-465 and the roundabouts on 106th and 116th streets under US 31.
The speed limit between I-465 and Old Meridian Street will remain 45 mph through the work zone. The speed limit north of Old Meridian Street is 55 mph.
yes! so happy for the new flyover to be open!
The new ramps are nice. Traffic flows really well. The merge with 106th is pretty smooth too
Nexus 7
Quote from: cjw2001 on December 21, 2015, 08:01:15 PM
US 31 is now set at Expressway priority in Google Maps which is close enough for now.
I'll make another run at setting it to Freeway priority once the final ramps open.
Well my objection to the change from Freeway to Expressway was finally reviewed by Google and it is back to Freeway priority now.
Nice to see this project nearing completion.
Makes me jealous that the same type of thing hasn't happened for US 23 on the north side of Columbus. Though when comparing those 2 situations I see they are pretty much the inverse of each other. The US 31 corridor will now have two different freeway options to get to the outerbelt, but no direct route freeway connection from there to downtown, while the US 23 corridor has no freeway connection to the outerbelt but does have 2 different easily accessible freeway options to downtown.
I think the next project INDOT needs to do is widen 465 from 86th to US 31 to 8 lanes. The 421 interchange needs to be redone, and the new ramp from SB 31 to WB 465 is causing merging problems during rush hour.
That has to be coming eventually. But INDOT is already planning on doing some widening from I-865 to Michigan Road plus the upcoming project involving 465 and 69 and road widening involved there. They may feel that doing road work there might be "too much" for north siders at the time. But I've been thinking it for years, all of 465 should be eight lanes.
Quote from: tdindy88 on February 04, 2016, 03:57:35 PM
That has to be coming eventually. But INDOT is already planning on doing some widening from I-865 to Michigan Road plus the upcoming project involving 465 and 69 and road widening involved there. They may feel that doing road work there might be "too much" for north siders at the time. But I've been thinking it for years, all of 465 should be eight lanes.
they're actually going to widen the 865 area? when?
It was announced late last year. But it should be from Michigan west to 865 (not including the 865/465 interchange IIRC.) It should be listed here under "added travel lanes" for Marion County at the new road investment site on INDOT's page, though it's very vague on exactly what the project is, it does give the location around that area. http://www.in.gov/indot/div/investment/
So what, a mile of widening? Woo buddy!
Quote from: bmeiser on February 04, 2016, 05:44:34 PM
So what, a mile of widening? Woo buddy!
i agree, but it is better than nothing, i'm assuming it's simply an extension of the merging lane for us 421. i hope both sides are done (EB 465 to 421N and SB 421 to WB 465)
You're right, at least it's something. I just want that damn corner of 465 fixed!
Quote from: bmeiser on February 04, 2016, 08:38:48 PM
You're right, at least it's something. I just want that damn corner of 465 fixed!
tell me about it, I hate that whole area trafficwise, everyday the same backup!
116th street roundabout will soon be complete, the signals are now gone. 106th street soon to follow. http://currentincarmel.com/116th-street-traffic-to-shift-today-at-u-s-31