America's Generation Y not driven to drive

[Beltway]

22 years old is a lot longer than 10 years old, and 1986 manufacture is a lot older than 2003 manufacture.

I could have a garage built on my property, but my experience with cars since 1990 has been that I couldn't justify spending $15,000 to $20,000 on a garage only on the basis of protecting the body of my car.

Now if someone lives near enough to the coast to be subject to salt spray, that is a whole 'nother matter...

[corco]

My family has been shuffling around a 1997 Ford Escort since new- first my aunt's, then my grandma's, then mine, now my parents', and it's probably spent a total of two months in a garage.

We wash it regularly and wax it twice a year and it still looks like new.

It has spent most of its life in Idaho, about half in Boise and half in McCall- it has lived in Arizona for over a year now, but it's mostly been subjected to Idaho weather. Idaho doesn't use salt on their roadways in the winter, and I suspect that has a lot to do with the condition of the car, despite having spent a good number of years outside in fairly brutal winter conditions.

[JREwing78]

My wife and I share a car, because having a 2nd car is an expense we don't want to take on right now, particularly when my wife's employment is currently part-time retail hell.

We chose our current residence in large part based on convenient transportation options. We're no more than a 10-15 minute bus ride from my job or from hers, on a bus that comes by every half-hour (plus another every hour). I still drive most days, but 1-2 times a week I take the bus in so my wife has the car for excursions, weird work shifts, etc. It doesn't hurt that my employer has a car I can use for longer excursions.

Even then, using the car is not necessarily an automatic option. If you want to do a Chicago excursion, using the car is a real pain in the neck. Much more convenient to catch the train or the bus in, and not deal with the drive or parking hassles. Milwaukee is more convenient, but for Brewers games and such, the bus is often more convenient.

I'm pretty disappointed that the "high-speed" train never made it to Madison. It was one of those situations where the money was spent anyway, so it was foolish to not take it and provide another transit option to Milwaukee (forestalling the inevitable need to widen I-94 for 20-30 years), and to Chicago.

I'm as much of a fan of driving as anyone, but I'm rather enjoying the fact that I don't HAVE to spend 1 1/2-2 hours a day behind the wheel commuting right now (2 months ago, I moved, cutting my commute from 45 miles to 2). The idea of commuting long hours to afford a home in a cul-de-sac is getting pretty tired.

[kphoger]

Yeah, there's nothing like taking a nap during a commute, only waking up at the end of the bus/train line to transfer.  I used to do that in the Chicago area:  I'd take the bus from Wheaton to Forest Park during the late afternoon once a week.  I'd pop in my headphones, get a CD going, and fall asleep until my transfer at Forest Park (to River Forest).  You can't do that in a car!

[Beltway]

Yeah, there's nothing like taking a nap during a commute, only waking up at the end of the bus/train line to transfer.  I used to do that in the Chicago area:  I'd take the bus from Wheaton to Forest Park during the late afternoon once a week.  I'd pop in my headphones, get a CD going, and fall asleep until my transfer at Forest Park (to River Forest).  You can't do that in a car!

Your ride may be safe, but many transit systems recommend against that, for security reasons.

[kphoger]

Yeah, there's nothing like taking a nap during a commute, only waking up at the end of the bus/train line to transfer.  I used to do that in the Chicago area:  I'd take the bus from Wheaton to Forest Park during the late afternoon once a week.  I'd pop in my headphones, get a CD going, and fall asleep until my transfer at Forest Park (to River Forest).  You can't do that in a car!

Your ride may be safe, but many transit systems recommend against that, for security reasons.

Well, yeah, I kept all belongings in direct contact with me, usually all in a bag which I looped around my leg.  I did enjoy not using a car whenever possible, even though it's not very feasible for me these days.  I was born in 1981; am I Gen-X or Gen-Y?

[Riverside Frwy]

I take transit, and I was born and raised in Los Angeles(More specifically Long Beach). I'm 18.

I save myself hundreds of dollars a month compared to my friends that have cars. Using the Commuter Train, it costs half as much to get to LA from Rialto and back than by car. This is only counting gas, let alone car repairs, insurance, and car payments.

Trying getting around LA at rush hour via car. I can say with confidence that it's much easier to get around via Los Angeles Metro Rail, and even more so with the expanding rail system.

Cars begin to easily break down when every living individual soul as their own car.  Buses and trains can move much more people efficiently in 10 times less space. I invite you to look I-10 between El Monte and Downtown LA at Rush Hour. Buses in the busway are flying past the backed up cars at 50mph. Trains in the median are flying at 90mph. Cars: 15 mph and below.

Frankly, cars actually make people more Lazy. Walking 2-3 miles from a metro station is easy for me. It seems like the average car user won't switch to rail unless their destination within 100ft of the train station.

[NJRoadfan]

Try going between two places that aren't served by any mass transit, which is to say.... a lot of places. Mass transit works if you happen to live along a route served by it and that bus/train happens to serve the location you work near. For the vast majority of people, that's simply not the case. As for "savings", for many, mass transit is actually an added cost since one still has to maintain a car for non-commuting uses.

Plus the weather in the rest of the country isn't like southern California, it rains and....GASP..... temps goes below freezing and it even snows. Try walking 2-3 miles with temperatures in the teens or with sleet sometime..... with dress shoes and a full suit and tie like most grown up jobs require. You'll see why most people aren't fond of the idea of going much further between a train station and their place of work.

[CL]

Count me in. Several months ago, I made the decision to stop driving. And I was a little apprehensive. But Salt Lake really has a great transit system, especially when it comes to light rail. (The bus system is alright, but night and weekend service has really taken a hit in the last few years due to the everlasting recession.) I didn't have much to lose, so I took the plunge.

It's been satisfying, to be honest. The financial savings are the best part; I spend fifty percent less on gasoline. I can do whatever I want when I'm on the bus or light rail, like read. And when I'm going to a Real Salt Lake or Jazz game, I can park at a light rail station and use my monthly pass to complete my journey.

If I could get rid of all the cars that we have and totally switch to using transit, I would. (I still love driving, but it's interesting how much it's lost its luster since I got my license all those years back.) But in a city as spread out as Salt Lake, there are places one needs to be that just aren't served by transit. Nevertheless, it's not at all impractical for a family to get rid of one of two or three cars by simply having someone get a bus pass.

[agentsteel53]

The cheapest possible way to own a car is to buy one new, paying cash for it upfront (no loan, no interest), and then run it all the way into the ground. Of course, you need to be able to save up enough money to do that.

I disagree.  I think that the first 100000 miles are overpriced.  then, given an expectation that I can get another 100000-150000, I will run it into the ground.

basically, I am buying a car with 50% of its life left, at 15% of its original price. 

I've never tried the "use the beater for a year, then get rid of it" idea, because then I am subjecting myself to the risk of new, unknown mechanical problems.  with my current car, after about 10 months and 50000 miles, I know quite well what has been replaced, what is on its way out, and what does not look like it needs replacement any time soon.  only once have I run into a surprise (a leaky transmission pan gasket) that required "immediately, if not sooner" attention.  with a different old car, I would need a month or two of adjustment to get that confidence, and I do not believe that to be a good investment.

my car's cost me about $3500 in maintenance - so add that to the $2400 sale price, and get $5900.  49000 miles at 25 miles per gallon is almost exactly 2000 gallons.  $4 each is $8000.

that's $13900 for 49000 miles, which is 28 cents per mile.  throw in registration, insurance, etc, and we're still looking at significantly better than the IRS rate of 55.5 cents per mile, even with the unrealistic assumption that the car is completely worthless in resale, which is not the case.  I'm sure I could get at least 2000 back.

oh yeah I write off most of those 49000 miles since I drive for business, so that is one hell of a savings too.

[J N Winkler]

Frankly, cars actually make people more lazy. Walking 2-3 miles from a metro station is easy for me. It seems like the average car user won't switch to rail unless their destination within 100ft of the train station.

Really?  Do you mean that you literally walk 30 to 45 minutes on one end or the other of your transit connection?

[bugo]

Transit might work in dense towns or in downtown areas of big cities, but it will never work in towns like Kansas City or Tulsa or OKC.  They're too sprawled out.  There's no place to build train tracks, and they would have to buy several times as many buses as they have now.

[kphoger]

Try going between two places that aren't served by any mass transit, which is to say.... a lot of places. Mass transit works if you happen to live along a route served by it and that bus/train happens to serve the location you work near. For the vast majority of people, that's simply not the case. As for "savings", for many, mass transit is actually an added cost since one still has to maintain a car for non-commuting uses.

Plus the weather in the rest of the country isn't like southern California, it rains and....GASP..... temps goes below freezing and it even snows. Try walking 2-3 miles with temperatures in the teens or with sleet sometime..... with dress shoes and a full suit and tie like most grown up jobs require. You'll see why most people aren't fond of the idea of going much further between a train station and their place of work.

People often speak as if your own car and public transit are the only two options for getting around.  When I lived in the outer Chicago suburbs, where public transit exists but is quite spotty and runs daytime only, I used a combination of walking, cycling, rollerblades, bus, train, hichhiking, and asking friends for rides; for a time, I shared a ride to and from work.  Between all those modes of transportation, I don't recall ever being completely stranded.  Let me tell you, it gets cold and wet in Chicago; wear boots and put your dress shoes in a backpack.  Is it raining when you need to ride your bicycle to work?  Pack a change of clothes and leave five minutes early.  When nearly every friend and family member you know owns a car, there's no excuse for not having a ride somewhere in a pinch.

I've walked as much as three to four miles as part of a one-way daily commute, come rain or shine.  Honestly, I was in much better health condition back then, and I suppose that had something to do with it.  If I really needed to, I could find a way to work without a car, even though the nearest public transit is a good two miles or more from the office.  If I said I couldn't, I would be lying.

[kphoger]

Transit might work in dense towns or in downtown areas of big cities, but it will never work in towns like Kansas City or Tulsa or OKC.  They're too sprawled out.  There's no place to build train tracks, and they would have to buy several times as many buses as they have now.

Wichita and Chicago both have better public transportation than Kansas City.  The former is smaller than Kansas City, and the latter is bigger.  Wichita has a much different route layout than Chicago, i.e. spoke and hub.  There's more at play than just the number of buses and rail lines.

[vdeane]

Frankly, cars actually make people more Lazy. Walking 2-3 miles from a metro station is easy for me. It seems like the average car user won't switch to rail unless their destination within 100ft of the train station.

Having to walk that amount is absurd!  When my family vacationed in DC, Mom nearly got heat stroke from the 1 mile walk from the Lincoln Memorial to the nearest metro station; I didn't fare too well either.

[algorerhythms]

Frankly, cars actually make people more Lazy. Walking 2-3 miles from a metro station is easy for me. It seems like the average car user won't switch to rail unless their destination within 100ft of the train station.

Having to walk that amount is absurd!  When my family vacationed in DC, Mom nearly got heat stroke from the 1 mile walk from the Lincoln Memorial to the nearest metro station; I didn't fare too well either.

How is that absurd? I walk 1.5 miles every day to and from work, and it gets to 105-110 in the summer here. I've yet to suffer heat stroke from it. Yeah, I could drive to work, but I save money on parking and get some exercise.

[J N Winkler]

How is that absurd? I walk 1.5 miles every day to and from work, and it gets to 105-110 in the summer here. I've yet to suffer heat stroke from it. Yeah, I could drive to work, but I save money on parking and get some exercise.

It is not absurd if you are acclimatized.  In Wichita we have been having a run of 100° days and I have been outside walking for at least 30 minutes in the evening every day, including on days when it has been over 100° when I stepped out.  But:  (1) I am used to it, (2) I am in reasonably good physical condition (BMI fluctuating between 20 and 22, fairly regular resistance workouts at the gym), (3) I don't try it when carrying heavy loads, and (4) I have a developed cooling-down regime which involves drinking ice water and squeegeeing sweat off my back.  Walking in this kind of weather would be challenging for the physically unfit, and even people in good health have to ease into routines involving this kind of heat stress.

[vdeane]

Yeah, Mom and I both have small comfort ranges (below 70, it's too cold, and above 74, it's too hot; it was 90 that day in DC) and I'm not physically fit.  Plus it takes a long time to walk that far; who has that kind of time these days?  The 19th century is long gone; if it takes more than a couple minutes to move a mile, you're going too slow.

[agentsteel53]

squeegeeing sweat off my back

doesn't that negate the benefits of evaporative cooling?

[english si]

Really?  Do you mean that you literally walk 30 to 45 minutes on one end or the other of your transit connection?

I've done that before - but out of boredom/exercise/nice weather most of the time. Otherwise I've typically carried on on transit, cycled or taken a bus.

Certainly I personally wouldn't bother with transit if I could walk it in 30 minutes (unless running late). I think the last short-distance transit journey I made was Bond Street to Covent Garden - it was very wet and my parent's whom I was meeting didn't understand that I was in a pub with some friends and that it might be better if they, having finished what they were doing, travelled nearer to me rather than giving me about two minutes to drink my beer to meet them at the time they were suggesting as they were travelling away from where I was (IIRC they were at Trafalgar Square). They could have got to me quicker than they could have got to Covent Garden.

Of course, there's no stifling heat to deal with here! (though I did walk from Lords to Hyde Park on a hot day in May).

[jwolfer]

if you have cash you can find a decent used car.  If you are financing and dont have good credit you end up paying 15000 for a 10 year old car at the "we finance anyone" dealerships( eg JD Byrider).  I was looking at a 2002 Hyundai Sonata for 15000.  I just had to get a new car this year and i don't have good credit and the payments were 300-400 a month not too much less than a new car( Ford Focus type) and if I were going to pay that much a month Id rather have a new car. 

I did find a cash deal at another dealership.  3500 for a 2002 Hyundai Elantra GT.  Thankfully my dad was able to loan me the cash upfront

[agentsteel53]

that is an insane dealer markup.  well, they can get away with it because people still buy from them.  capitalism in action!

I'll open up my own dealership and sell my Taurus for 10000 when I am done with it 

[1995hoo]

The recent reliability issues, and the ongoing weekend disruptions to service, on the DC Metrorail system led the Washington Post's Dr. Gridlock to ask why people who continue to grouse about the system's weekend unreliability continue to use it on weekends. I found some of the comments from 20-somethings to be amusing. Several of them said things like, "We have no option. We moved to the city so we could take the subway instead of driving." It seems to me they DID indeed have an option and they chose the wrong one–opting to go without a car because you want to use transit is indeed an "option." That's not to say they shouldn't be annoyed about the Metrorail's unreliability, of course, but the sanctimonious tone some of these people take irks me.

I think in most cities (outside of New York) it's foolish to put all your eggs in one basket as to how you'll get around. I prefer to drive, but I'm glad there's a bus stop half a mile from home on a line that connects to the Metrorail. A couple of times when I had to leave one of the cars at the mechanic due to a delay in getting parts I was glad I was able to take the subway and bus to get home (and back to work the next day).

I think it's also important to recognize the difference between the New York Subway and other cities' systems. The New York Subway is a way to get around the city. It's not unusual for people to take the subway to go shopping, for example–sort of like taking the Disney World Monorail to go to dinner at one of the other hotels. New York is unique in North America in that respect. In every other North American city with a subway system, it's first and foremost a way to COMMUTE, and that's a fundamentally different prospect from "getting around."

What it really boils down to for me is that I don't give a rat's arse if someone wants to live in the city on a subway line and not own a car, but I take offense when those people try to tell me I'm living the wrong way because I live in the suburbs and my wife and I own three cars. I spent a month living right across the street from my office one year (a month-long business trip) and I hated it. I felt like I never left the office. I don't like apartment living and I have no desire to live in the District of Columbia due to high taxes, corrupt single-party government, and various other issues. But if someone else doesn't mind those things, it's no skin off my nose.

[Beltway]

I walk a mile a day to and from the bus stop to downtown, half a mile each way.  I walk close to a mile to and from the Wendy's I like to eat at downtown.  I like hot weather, even 100 degrees high as today, weighing about 160 lbs helps both ways (staying thin and not minding hot weather).

[Duke87]

Heat itself doesn't bother me, but combined with humidity...

I was outside in 100+ degree heat in Kansas, Utah, Arizona, etc. over the past couple weeks and I wasn't particularly bothered by it. But now I'm dealing with 90 degree heat in Florida and holy hell I just want to stay inside in the AC. Same goes when it gets this hot in New York.

My daily commute involves what I'd estimate to be maybe about 3/4 of a mile walk each way (~15 minutes). And of course I walk around more for other purposes. Keeps your legs in shape even if you never go to the gym, at least.