End speed zone signs/ End XX mile speed signs

[tman]

Do any other states use "end speed zone/end 30 mile speed" signs as much as Minnesota? Probably over half the counties use these instead of "Speed limit 55". It seems like a dumb sign if you don't know what they mean- end 30, begin what? It's weird because minnesota signage is good, even on the county roads. And a Speed limit 55 would work for all situations, while you need end 30/40/45 speed zone signs. But I know they are still posting new signs like this- someone hit an "end 30 mile speed" sign this winter and they replaced it with an identical, just on two posts. So, what other states, if any, do this and why does Minnesota?


They are usually not followed by a speed limit 55 except for this one example- you can see the end 30 mile speed, if you drive forward 3 arrows on the keyboard, there is a 55 sign.
https://www.google.com/maps/@46.540778,-95.010004,3a,75y,169.65h,87.67t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1shjCRoa26fQ-NG37I_0Lucw!2e0!6m1!1e1


Actually, US 10 leaving Royalton, MN has an "end 40 mile speed" sign, and that's an expressway. It's been there for at least a couple of years. That is the common design of sign used in many counties.
https://www.google.com/maps/@45.834781,-94.298776,3a,75y,316.31h,87.98t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1smB6gT7k2zZZFijpLsjhnkQ!2e0

[cl94]

New York uses them extensively. Sometimes, they are placed at a location when a 55 mph travel speed is unsafe and followed by a 55 sign after the obstacle (as is shown here-55 sign after the curve). Erie and Saratoga Counties, among several others, typically post only "end limit" signs, although Erie County has been installing a lot of 55 signs over the past couple years (while replacing other end limit signs with identical reflectorized end limit signs). While the end limit sign implies 55, Erie County is particularly bad about placing 40 or 45 signs immediately after the end limit signs.

The old version of the sign was "end xx mile speed", as shown along a former routing of US 219 in Springville, NY.

When NYSDOT installs an "end limit" sign, it is almost always followed by a 55 sign, except in Region 5. Counties and towns vary, as shown above. Some counties, such as Warren and Niagara Counties, only use 55 signs on county-maintained roads.

There were also some of these in Virginia at one point.

[Mapmikey]

Virginia still has these up on secondary roads throughout the state.  Based on the photo below I'm guessing this has been true for at least 40 years, though today the signs say END xx MPH or similar.




Mike

[1995hoo]

I recall there used to be an "End 65 Mile Speed" sign on the eastbound Dulles Greenway in Virginia. It wasn't really the right sign for the spot, though, as it was placed just before the toll plaza where the speed limit drops to 35. The "End XX Mile Speed" sign seems to imply the default speed limit under state law applies beyond the sign, and in this case that would have meant 55 (which, to be sure, did and does apply beyond the toll plaza). The sign is now gone. It's the only place I recall seeing that style of sign in Virginia.

[vdeane]

In NY those signs were used because of the concept of zoned speed limits that is used here.  That's why you see a lot of signs saying "Sate Speed Limit 55", "City Speed Limit 30", etc.  When you see one, it means you're entering a zone, where all the speed limits are at that limit while you are in the zone except for exceptions that need to be comprehensively signed.  The "end" sign means that the speed limit reverts to the default for that zone.  For example, if you're in a city with a speed limit of 30 (almost all of them - NYC is 25; ditto for villages, though I think at least one of those is 35) on a street with a 25 mph speed limit, if you see "end 25 mph limit", that means the speed limit is now 30, not 55.

The reason the zones are used is to reduce the number of speed limit signs that need to be posted.

[slorydn1]

I've never seen an end xx speed sign here in NC. What we do have is the message on all City Limits signs coming into a city "Now Entering (insert town name here) Speed Limit 35 Unless Otherwise Posted" (NC set the default rural limit at 55 mph and the default urban speed limit at 35 mph "unless otherwise posted".

In that light I have seen a few towns with "Now Leaving" signs but those seem to be few and far between. This has created some interesting situations as to what the speed limit actually is over certain stretches of road that has no posted speed limit and uncertainty for drivers where the town actually ends.


Because we have some really weird spot annexations allowed here in NC, just because the sign in he opposite direction says "Now Entering...." doesn't necessarily mean that the driver isn't still in the town limits on his side of the road (or conversely he may have actually been "out in the county" for a quite some time now).


I have seen speeding tickets successfully defended against (or not issued in the first place) because of this.

[jeffandnicole]

PA tends to use "End Speed Zone", especially in the more rural areas.

[Zeffy]

I've seen SPEED ZONE AHEAD (which really indicates that you are entering an area where cops sit in the shadows lurking for anyone who defies the speed limit) in Hopewell, New Jersey. I don't think I've seen an END SPEED ZONE though.

Here's the SPEED ZONE AHEAD sign:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.382207,-74.7756,3a,15y,82.92h,85.17t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1slgdp4YQNKV_oqvnicL724g!2e0

[TEG24601]

In Washington, they typically post the new speed limit after the reduced speed zone.

[machias]

I've noticed that in New York we've gone from END XX MILE SPEED to END XX MILE LIMIT sometime in the past 30 years. I can't find many instances where this has meant anything other than speed limit 55.

[roadman65]

New York has a default 55 ruling.  All rural roads are that if not posted.

[cl94]

I've noticed that in New York we've gone from END XX MILE SPEED to END XX MILE LIMIT sometime in the past 30 years. I can't find many instances where this has meant anything other than speed limit 55.

I don't think it ever has, unless you're Erie County and post a 45 sign 500 feet later

[vdeane]

I've noticed that in New York we've gone from END XX MILE SPEED to END XX MILE LIMIT sometime in the past 30 years. I can't find many instances where this has meant anything other than speed limit 55.

I don't think it ever has, unless you're Erie County and post a 45 sign 500 feet later

Here's one in Elmira: https://goo.gl/maps/ycXvk

[roadman65]

To me I always thought that posting end speed limit signs were a waste as you could easily post the new speed limit sign just as well.

Also in Scotch Plains, NJ we used to have an END Speed Limit 45 sign, but it was not for a higher speed limit.  It was as you entered Clark Township and its silly 25 mph speed limits for non residential roads.  In fact the first 25 mph speed limit sign was not until about 1000 feet later once over the CSX railroad bridge hump.

[cl94]

I've noticed that in New York we've gone from END XX MILE SPEED to END XX MILE LIMIT sometime in the past 30 years. I can't find many instances where this has meant anything other than speed limit 55.

I don't think it ever has, unless you're Erie County and post a 45 sign 500 feet later

Here's one in Elmira: https://goo.gl/maps/ycXvk

That's just stupid, given that that (per the 2011 State Supplement to the MUTCD):

Section 2B.101 End Speed Zone Sign (NYR2-11)
Option:
01 The End Speed Zone (NYR2-11) sign (see Sign Drawing SD-R1) may be used for posting the end of a linear or area speed limit which is followed by the statewide limit. It is a substitute for the NYR2-2 sign (see Section 2B.13) at that location.
Standard:
02 The NYR2-11 sign shall be used only where the NYR2-2 sign would be unsuitable because of conditions immediately beyond the sign location.

This implies that the limit is 55 for ~100 feet (which is ludicrous). Such a setup is only allowed if the limit is 55 for less than 1/4 mile.

To me I always thought that posting end speed limit signs were a waste as you could easily post the new speed limit sign just as well.

Also in Scotch Plains, NJ we used to have an END Speed Limit 45 sign, but it was not for a higher speed limit.  It was as you entered Clark Township and its silly 25 mph speed limits for non residential roads.  In fact the first 25 mph speed limit sign was not until about 1000 feet later once over the CSX railroad bridge hump.

PA has one of those setups in each direction on PA 5 near the NY border.

[corco]

Montana has several "end speed zone" signs that are presumably relics from when there wasn't a speed limit. Nowadays, I take it to mean that the state default (70 off interstate) is in effect.

[roadfro]

Do any other states use "end speed zone/end 30 mile speed" signs as much as Minnesota? <...> It seems like a dumb sign if you don't know what they mean- end 30, begin what?

Nevada doesn't use these signs at all. This probably because there is not really a default speed limit for rural or urban areas (other than the statutory maximum speed of 75–soon to be 80). A speed limit sign is always used, even if returning to a previous speed limit after going through a zone.

I also think it is weird to just use an end zone sign and not refer to the new speed limit directly. If the end speed sign is used to default to a statutory speed, it seems unreasonable to expect all drivers (especially out of town drivers) to know the statutory limit.



The only similar sign used in Nevada is the "End school zone" sign. In most recent installations, this sign is accompanied by a speed limit sign on the same post–and in most older installations, the speed limit sign is immediately downstream from from the end zone sign (I.e. 250 feet or less...typically the next light pole).

[Brandon]

Because we have some really weird spot annexations allowed here in NC, just because the sign in he opposite direction says "Now Entering...." doesn't necessarily mean that the driver isn't still in the town limits on his side of the road (or conversely he may have actually been "out in the county" for a quite some time now).

Interesting.  In Illinois, the rule for annexations is that the first municipality to the road annexes the entire width of the road.  This can lead to a strange situation in which the road may alternate between municipalities due to when the annexations were made, but in areas where the surrounding areas are unincorporated, there is no ambiguity.

[slorydn1]

Because we have some really weird spot annexations allowed here in NC, just because the sign in he opposite direction says "Now Entering...." doesn't necessarily mean that the driver isn't still in the town limits on his side of the road (or conversely he may have actually been "out in the county" for a quite some time now).

Interesting.  In Illinois, the rule for annexations is that the first municipality to the road annexes the entire width of the road.  This can lead to a strange situation in which the road may alternate between municipalities due to when the annexations were made, but in areas where the surrounding areas are unincorporated, there is no ambiguity.

Here, it depends on what it is the municipality is annexing. They may have just granted water/sewer access to Billy Jo Bob's shop with the proviso that the shop owner agrees to be annexed. In that case, they usually take NONE of the roadway in front of it, the city limits end at the property owner's side of the right-of-way on that side of the road.


-Or-


They might take a whole parcel of land on one side of the road. and that usually means that they take everything up to the center line of the road. Old US-70 between NC-55 and Clarks Rd is an example of this here. The eastbound lane of Old 70 is in the city, the westbound lane is in the county.


-Or-


They may take the entire neighborhood a road runs through in which case they get the road, too.