Misconceptions about town lines

[roadman65]

The Post Office considers where I live in Orlando.  I live outside the city limits.

The Post Office considers Paradise, NV to Las Vegas, NV.

The Post Office considers each neighborhood in Queens to be independent cities.

The Post Office considers part of Woodbridge Township, NJ to be Metuchen, even though Edison separates it and Metuchen's Post Office does not deliver mail in between, but Edison's PO does.

[empirestate]

The Post Office considers...

Well, in a way. The general public considers all those things, based on what the post offices are named and what areas they serve. While the postal service has had a lot of influence historically in establishing U.S. placenames because of its naming requirements for post offices, they aren't really in the business of determining what areas go together geographically. The Census Bureau is in charge of that (based of course on what the actual localgovernments do).

But, since the general public deals a lot more frequently with the mailman than with the census taker or even the tax collector, it's the postal nomenclature that catches hold in most people's parlance.

[DTComposer]

For whatever reason, people generally identify very strongly with what the post office calls their piece of territory (even though the receiving of mail at home is much less important than it used to be) and often barely refer to the actual governmental entity they live under, if there even is one.

(And it's not only ZIP codes; people will also identify with a school district, or just with a nearby municipality if they happen to live in an otherwise unnamed unincorporated area adjacent to it.)

I think many of these people will identify with whichever place gives them the most cache (read: highest home value, best scoring schools). When North Hollywood (itself part of Los Angeles) started to decline, people in those zip codes began identifying with smaller neighborhoods (Studio City, Toluca Lake, Valley Village) in order to disassociate from North Hollywood, keeping their home values (and I imagine their morale) up.

The Post Office considers...

Well, in a way. The general public considers all those things, based on what the post offices are named and what areas they serve. While the postal service has had a lot of influence historically in establishing U.S. placenames because of its naming requirements for post offices, they aren't really in the business of determining what areas go together geographically. The Census Bureau is in charge of that (based of course on what the actual localgovernments do).]

However, in the case of CDPs, the Census Bureau often "creates" places that don't have any real-world use, grouping two or more communities/villages/hamlets/etc. together into one hyphenated CDP (or even making a name up that hadn't been in use by local governments, the Post Office or the general public). These communities, while geographically proximate, don't historically identify with each other the same "place." Similarly, the Census Bureau has named CDPs that are unincorporated pockets surrounded by cities, again assigning names that have not seen real-world usage.

[NJRoadfan]

Sometimes what the Post Office considers eventually leads to the municipality changing its name to suit. Witness Dover Township, NJ changing its name to Toms River Township. Why? Because the Post Office insisted all mail be marked that even though Toms River was a place name covering a small portion of Dover Twp.

Oddly some place names in Toms River Twp. still see common use even after the name change. People still claim they live in Silverton... but never Gilford Park.

[empirestate]

However, in the case of CDPs, the Census Bureau often "creates" places that don't have any real-world use, grouping two or more communities/villages/hamlets/etc. together into one hyphenated CDP (or even making a name up that hadn't been in use by local governments, the Post Office or the general public). These communities, while geographically proximate, don't historically identify with each other the same "place." Similarly, the Census Bureau has named CDPs that are unincorporated pockets surrounded by cities, again assigning names that have not seen real-world usage.

Indeed they do, and these names seldom come into common usage after being devised by the Census Bureau, whereas postal names frequently have.


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[Duke87]

Don't get me started on all the places that list their address as being in "Rochester, NY" or "Buffalo, NY" despite the fact that they are in neighboring municipalities. Stupid example: This post office is quite clearly in the town of Henrietta, but nope, they say they're in Rochester and therefore so does everyone they deliver mail to.

[empirestate]

Don't get me started on all the places that list their address as being in "Rochester, NY" or "Buffalo, NY" despite the fact that they are in neighboring municipalities. Stupid example: This post office is quite clearly in the town of Henrietta, but nope, they say they're in Rochester and therefore so does everyone they deliver mail to.

And that's actually the main post office for Rochester now.

But how would you have these places list their address, then? If they have a Rochester mailing address, that's what they'd list, no?


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[Eth]

I have seen letters addressed to Disney World using Orlando and not Lake Buena Vista.

Which surely the USPS can deal with easily?

I'd imagine that, like the UK, they barely use the town to sort it out - the code and street address normally giving the right information, with fairly rare duplicates.

By default, they do indeed seem not to bother with the town name, relying entirely on the ZIP code. I experienced this firsthand about 15 years ago when a letter from a family member in Florida took an inordinately long time to arrive. When it finally got to me in Georgia, ZIP code 30xxx, there was a postmark on it from a town in Iowa, ZIP code 50xxx. Apparently they (or, more likely, some automated system) couldn't quite read her handwriting.

[KEVIN_224]

Connecticut has 169 municipalities, each with a distinct border.

Winsted is a part of Winchester.
Storrs, home to U-Conn, is a part of Mansfield.
Willimantic is a part of Windham.
Mystic is a part of Stonington and (I think) a sliver of Groton.

Kensington is a part of Berlin. The village shares its 06037 zip code with most of the remainder of Berln. Berlin's lesser village (hamlet?), East Berlin, has a different zip code, however.

The one anomaly I can find in this state is Groton. A municipality map of the state will only show one Groton, on the other side of the Thames River from New London. However, I've seen sites mention a separate town of Groton and city of Groton.

I live in New Britain, a city of roughly 72,000, give or take. There are no towns or villages within its 13.9 square miles that I'm aware of.

In Pennsylvania, Philadelphia city and county cover the exact same area (coterminous).

In Maryland, Baltimore city is separate from Baltimore County.

I've lost count on how many independent cities Virginia has. Would Arlington be considered a case like Philadelphia? I stayed at a hotel there two weeks ago. I seem to remember seeing Arlington County on a couple of vehicles there.

[Duke87]

And that's actually the main post office for Rochester now.

But how would you have these places list their address, then?

Henrietta, NY. Or whatever town they're located within the political boundary of. Your address should not be in Rochester, NY if you are not in the city of Rochester. (Or the town of Rochester, but they should be made to change their name to avoid duplication)

[empirestate]

And that's actually the main post office for Rochester now.

But how would you have these places list their address, then?

Henrietta, NY. Or whatever town they're located within the political boundary of. Your address should not be in Rochester, NY if you are not in the city of Rochester. (Or the town of Rochester, but they should be made to change their name to avoid duplication)

Oh, I see; you mean you'd like to see mailing addresses changed to match physical addresses?

[jwolfer]

Many businesses around the Blanding Blvd exit of 295 in Jacksonville are thought if as if they are in Orange Park. Many of the car dealerships are xxxx of Orange Park.  The zip codes are Jacksonville

[jwolfer]

Lake Buena Vista, FL is part of Disney and the Reedy Creek Improvement District, but many of us think it is the commercial strip located outside of Disney World on FL 535 between I-4 and Lake Street(along Apopka-Vineland Road).

I used to think, that Downtown Disney (formerly Disney Village) was Lake Buena Vista which is why the area outside the resort became known as that.  I thought Disney dropped the name for the Village and later Downtown and that LBV was unincorporated so the name just stood for the area with all post Disney businesses along 535 just using that as a name cause it caught on.  Then I looked up the Reedy Creek Improvement District on line and found that it is technically one of two towns that are incorporated on Disney's Resort.

There are some errors with Disney's location.
It is located in Bay Lake, Florida, a part of Orlando.
All mail is instead mailed to Lake Buena Vista, Florida, still part of Orlando.
The general public does not specify this and simply says Orlando, and think I'm wrong when I try to correct them. I have seen letters addressed to Disney World using Orlando and not Lake Buena Vista.

It is mostly unincorporated Orange County.

The Reedy Creek Improvement District is in Orange and Osceola County. But the RCID is more or less independent

[jwolfer]

For people from  NJ, PA, NY and New England unincorporated areas are a weird concept.

[empirestate]

For people from  NJ, PA, NY and New England unincorporated areas are a weird concept.

Of course, I was going to say not so in NY–but you're right; just as towns aren't considered "incorporated", I've also never heard them referred to as "unincorporated" either. They're kind of not terms we even use, except perhaps to refer to the actual process of forming a city or village.

[Pink Jazz]

Usually is based on Zip Code. Some Zip Codes cross town or city lines, and some Zip Codes that border a town or city may be in a different town or city.
Examples:
Some Scottsdale, AZ Zip Codes are in Neighboring Phoenix, Cave Creek & Carefree.
Some Glendale, AZ Zip Codes are In Neighboring Phoenix 
And the worst examples Exist in Maricopa (Metro Phoenix), Pinal (Metro Phoenix & Metro Tucson) and Pima (Metro Tucson) are county islands surrounded by cities and towns, example: You could live at 15600 S 132nd Street Chandler, AZ 85255, but your house is in a county island not the city of Chandler, AZ   

More Phoenix area examples:

• Parts of the Tolleson zip code extend into far west Phoenix and parts of Avondale.
• Parts of far northeastern Gilbert are in a Mesa zip code.

[Duke87]

Henrietta, NY. Or whatever town they're located within the political boundary of. Your address should not be in Rochester, NY if you are not in the city of Rochester. (Or the town of Rochester, but they should be made to change their name to avoid duplication)

Oh, I see; you mean you'd like to see mailing addresses changed to match physical addresses?

Pretty much. Use whatever municipality the building is physically in when writing the address. No saying you're in the city when you're in a suburb. If Henrietta, Brighton, etc. wants to be part of Rochester so badly they should have Rochester annex them. Otherwise, no.

Of course, New York City messes with this standard since street names and addresses within the city are not unique, so to avoid ambiguity you need to specify the borough. Local convention is pretty much that "New York, NY" = Manhattan, The Bronx is written as "Bronx, NY", Brooklyn and Staten Island are written verbatim, and in Queens you use the neighborhood name (e.g. "Long Island City, NY"). I'm fine with this local convention so long as it is followed, but of course I've seen people write "New York, NY" when they're not in Manhattan, so...

As for unincorporated areas, the anal retentive way would be to just default to the lowest level of government available (e.g. "123 Sand Road, Lander County, NV"). But I'd accept using the name of an unincorporated CDP as well.

[vdeane]

Over in the Capital District, Post Office addresses usually do correspond to the municipalities (rather than just using "Albany" or something), but it's not exact.  Obviously there are the cases where the zip code line doesn't match the town line, but there are a couple interesting ones:
-There is a post office labeled Latham, even though Latham is technically a hamlet.
-There is no post office labeled Halfmoon; instead, the town is split between Clifton Park and Waterford for mail sorting purposes.  This has actually become a political issue with Schumer trying to get them a zip code, as apparently some services (like fire) get confused by the addresses, drive to Clifton Park, and only realize later that they need to go to Halfmoon.  Making things more complicated, the hamlet of Clifton Park actually IS in the Town of Halfmoon, and not the Town of Clifton Park.

[roadman65]

Sometimes what the Post Office considers eventually leads to the municipality changing its name to suit. Witness Dover Township, NJ changing its name to Toms River Township. Why? Because the Post Office insisted all mail be marked that even though Toms River was a place name covering a small portion of Dover Twp.

Oddly some place names in Toms River Twp. still see common use even after the name change. People still claim they live in Silverton... but never Gilford Park.

Also the fact that there is a Dover in Morris County, which would confuse people.

New Jersey allows duplicate municipality names such as the many different Washington's that they have scattered throughout the whole state with 3 of them being close to each other in Morris and Warren Counties.  You even have two Freeholds as well.  A borough named Freehold and a township named the same.  However, most consider them both to be the same because they are neighboring communities even though they have separate police, fire, schools, and government.

The same could be said about Madison Township in Middlesex County becoming Old Bridge Township as it was confusing being Morris County has  also a city named Madison.

[empirestate]

Henrietta, NY. Or whatever town they're located within the political boundary of. Your address should not be in Rochester, NY if you are not in the city of Rochester. (Or the town of Rochester, but they should be made to change their name to avoid duplication)

Oh, I see; you mean you'd like to see mailing addresses changed to match physical addresses?

Pretty much. Use whatever municipality the building is physically in when writing the address. No saying you're in the city when you're in a suburb. If Henrietta, Brighton, etc. wants to be part of Rochester so badly they should have Rochester annex them. Otherwise, no.

I can sympathize with that viewpoint. However, your beef is with the postal system really, not with the businesses themselves for listing their addresses in some misleading way; they're just listing what the postal service has set up. Nor is it with the municipalities, for wanting to be something they're not; many of them would actually prefer to retain their separate identities.

[noelbotevera]

I live outside Chambersburg (may be disputed - the "Chambersburg Welcomes You" signs may be a little off) but I still have a Chambersburg address - and even the ZIP code to boot.

[slorydn1]

I can relate.

I actually live in the town of River Bend, NC. We have our own police department, public works department (etc.)

My zip code is 28562, which is a New Bern zip code. The town of Trent Woods which is just NE of me and shares a common boundary with the city of New Bern is in the same boat-same zip code as me, too.

Meanwhile, the town of Bridgeton which is little more than a wide spot in the road has its own post office, hence its own zip code. Even stranger yet, Ernul which is along US-17 between Bridgeton and Vanceboro (near the US-17/NC-43 intersection) isn't even a town, heck it's not even a wide spot in the road, yet it has its own post office and zip code!

[jeffandnicole]

In NJ where we have some dry towns, it's not too uncommon for some bars to exist just on the other side of the boundary. Yet, for various reasons, people will associate those bars with the town that is dry.  Pitman, NJ is one of those dry towns, but many will say they are going to a bar in Pitman, which in reality is literally just feet from the border in the neighboring town.

Heck, even the Pitman Golf Course is completely located in the neighboring town of Mantua. And since Mantua isn't dry, it serves liquor.

[KEVIN_224]

I noticed how Robbinsville in Mercer County, NJ was once Washington. What strikes me as odd is the New Jersey Turnpike and Exit 7A in that renamed township: There's a water tower nearby, still adorned with the town's old name.

[lordsutch]

USPS assigns cities to zip codes for its own convenience in routing mail and packages (before zip codes, city names were how they routed mail, so limiting the number of city names and avoiding confusion between similar city and county names was paramount - that's why you don't see county names used much as destinations, since in a lot of the US there's a big geographic distance between City/Town X and X County/Parish within the same state). Any correspondence with real world boundaries is largely coincidental.

See also: telephone area codes and exchanges, again assigned largely for the convenience of the phone company with only occasional political considerations coming into play.

I'd guess many people wouldn't know what municipality they live in unless they actually looked at their voter registration card (if registered) or a property tax bill (which renters wouldn't get, except in states with a personal property tax on cars), which are the only two reasonably reliable sources other than looking at boundary maps.