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Maryland

Started by Alps, May 22, 2011, 12:10:09 AM

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cpzilliacus

Quote from: kj3400 on March 08, 2013, 05:44:11 PM
This sounds like one of the few cases where a toll road was downgraded into a regular freeway. I bet if 95 were still a toll road today they would not be considering removing the tolls now. Not that they removed them completely, considering the NB toll still in place across the Tidings.

Virginia has detolled many toll roads and some toll crossings.

Maryland has not fully de-tolled any toll roads or toll crossings, though the WPL (Bay) Bridge, the Hatem Bridge and the Gov. Harry Nice Bridge were all converted to one-way tolling in the early 1990's, along with the JFK Highway.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.


NE2

Quote from: cpzilliacus on March 08, 2013, 10:27:04 PM
Maryland has not fully de-tolled any toll roads or toll crossings
As best as I can tell, Wicomico County bought two ferries in the early 1950s and removed tolls. One used to be on MD 548.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

vdeane

Quote from: kj3400 on March 08, 2013, 05:44:11 PM
This sounds like one of the few cases where a toll road was downgraded into a regular freeway. I bet if 95 were still a toll road today they would not be considering removing the tolls now. Not that they removed them completely, considering the NB toll still in place across the Tidings.
A more recent example is I-190 in the city of Buffalo (the Grand Island bridge tolls remain).
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Alps

Quote from: 1995hoo on March 08, 2013, 04:38:24 PM
Quote from: kj3400 on March 08, 2013, 03:17:57 PM
I never really thought of 95 as a turnpike. I've always just thought of it as the way north with a toll for the Tidings Bridge. 50 years, geez, that part of 95's almost as old as the M6 :P

Once upon a time there were ramp tolls, but they were removed around 30 years ago or so.
Did Delaware have ramp tolls at Exit 1? I swear there's a toll plaza "mat" (large concrete area) right at the top of the I-95 SB ramp to DE 896 NB. Why would those have been removed? It would have cut down on shunpiking!

1995hoo

Quote from: Steve on March 11, 2013, 08:43:31 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 08, 2013, 04:38:24 PM
Quote from: kj3400 on March 08, 2013, 03:17:57 PM
I never really thought of 95 as a turnpike. I've always just thought of it as the way north with a toll for the Tidings Bridge. 50 years, geez, that part of 95's almost as old as the M6 :P

Once upon a time there were ramp tolls, but they were removed around 30 years ago or so.
Did Delaware have ramp tolls at Exit 1? I swear there's a toll plaza "mat" (large concrete area) right at the top of the I-95 SB ramp to DE 896 NB. Why would those have been removed? It would have cut down on shunpiking!

Delaware did have ramp tolls, though I can't confirm which exits had them because I don't ever remember us using any of the exits on that road when the tolls were there. But yes, the reason the ramps straighten and widen is because of those long-gone ramp tolls.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

cpzilliacus

#330
Quote from: Steve on March 11, 2013, 08:43:31 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 08, 2013, 04:38:24 PM
Quote from: kj3400 on March 08, 2013, 03:17:57 PM
I never really thought of 95 as a turnpike. I've always just thought of it as the way north with a toll for the Tidings Bridge. 50 years, geez, that part of 95's almost as old as the M6 :P

Once upon a time there were ramp tolls, but they were removed around 30 years ago or so.
Did Delaware have ramp tolls at Exit 1? I swear there's a toll plaza "mat" (large concrete area) right at the top of the I-95 SB ramp to DE 896 NB. Why would those have been removed? It would have cut down on shunpiking!

Yes, there were definitely tolls entering I-95 northbound from Del. 896 and exiting I-95 southbound to Del. 896.  And at several of the interchanges north (east) of Del. 896 as well - I believe the most-distant ones were at present-day Delaware 1/Delaware 7 (Exit 4 now).  I have a vague memory that the auto toll on the Delaware Turnpike ramps was 5¢ or maybe 10¢.

I don't exactly remember when the Delaware ramp tolls were removed - I think it may have been before the Maryland General Assembly ordered MdTA to get rid of theirs in the early 1980's (who knows, maybe they got the idea from Delaware).  The only place where there were never ramp tolls in the JFK Highway corridor was at Md. 279 (Exit 109, Elkton), which featured "free" movements in all directions (maybe that's why the truck stops grew up there) - and, of course, the never-tolled section of the Northeast Expressway/JFK Highway between I-895 (Exit 62 today) and Md. 43 (Exit 67).

Before I-95 was completed through Baltimore City via the Fort McHenry Tunnel in 1985, the signs southbound approaching I-895 had that marked as TO I-95 South.

EDIT: AAROADS has a 1973 Rand McNally of Delaware which clearly shows it as tolled all the way to the I-95/I-295 "split," which seems about right (complete with U.S. 301N and U.S. 301S): 

Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

amroad17

I notice today's exit 109 in MD was exit 9 when I-95 was tolled.

It looks weird without the winding, tolled DE 1 twisting around US 13.  Also, DE 1 was DE 14 back then from Milford to the state line. And no US 9.  Amazing what happens in 40 years.
I don't need a GPS.  I AM the GPS! (for family and friends)

1995hoo

Channel 4 news last night had a story about a woman who's outraged that she got a ticket for going 63 mph in the 65-mph zone "between the Beltways" on I-95. What they don't emphasize enough is that she was driving in the left lane. They mention it, but it's almost certainly her failure to keep to the right that motivated the cop to write the ticket–to which I say, good for the cop. It's too bad more of them don't enforce this sort of thing.

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Driving-2-MPH-Under-Speed-Limit_-Md_-Woman-Gets-Ticket_Washington-DC.html
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: amroad17 on March 11, 2013, 11:56:50 PM
I notice today's exit 109 in MD was exit 9 when I-95 was tolled.

Yeah.  Prior to sometime in the 1980's, the  JFK Highway had its own set of exit numbers, starting with Exit 1, which I believe was I-695, and Exit 2 at Md. 43 at White Marsh. 

See snippet of the 1979/1980 Maryland SHA map below, which shows the fully-tolled JFK Highway with exit numbers starting at 3 (large file, about 1.7 MB, which is why you have to click the link to see it):

http://www.toward.com/cpz/jfkmap.jpg
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

1995hoo

Quote from: cpzilliacus on March 12, 2013, 10:59:38 AM
Quote from: amroad17 on March 11, 2013, 11:56:50 PM
I notice today's exit 109 in MD was exit 9 when I-95 was tolled.

Yeah.  Prior to sometime in the 1980's, the  JFK Highway had its own set of exit numbers, starting with Exit 1, which I believe was I-695, and Exit 2 at Md. 43 at White Marsh. 

See snippet of the 1979/1980 Maryland SHA map below, which shows the fully-tolled JFK Highway with exit numbers starting at 3 (large file, about 1.7 MB, which is why you have to click the link to see it):

http://www.toward.com/cpz/jfkmap.jpg

IIRC, that situation was part of what motivated Maryland to switch to milepost numbering in the early 1980s: Much like I-87 in New York or I-95 in Maine, Maryland's portion of I-95 had three different sets of exit numbers at that time–the Capital Beltway sequential numbers that ascended clockwise around the loop from US-1 in Virginia (Exit 1) to I-295 in Maryland (Exit 38), the "between-the-Beltways" numbers that (I believe) ascended northbound, and then a third set of sequential numbers on the JFK Highway. I don't remember how the numbers worked on the "between-the-Beltways" segment back then (and it also bears noting that I-95 was discontinuous at that time because the Fort McHenry Tunnel wasn't finished).
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

cpzilliacus

#335
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 12, 2013, 10:53:50 AM
Channel 4 news last night had a story about a woman who's outraged that she got a ticket for going 63 mph in the 65-mph zone "between the Beltways" on I-95. What they don't emphasize enough is that she was driving in the left lane. They mention it, but it's almost certainly her failure to keep to the right that motivated the cop to write the ticket–to which I say, good for the cop. It's too bad more of them don't enforce this sort of thing.

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Driving-2-MPH-Under-Speed-Limit_-Md_-Woman-Gets-Ticket_Washington-DC.html

She was cited for Nestoring, properly known as Transportation Article §21—301(b), which reads:

Quoteb)   On every roadway, except while overtaking and passing another vehicle going in the same direction or when preparing for a lawful left turn, any vehicle going 10 miles an hour or more below the applicable maximum speed limit or, if any existing conditions reasonably require a speed below that of the applicable maximum, at less than the normal speed of traffic under these conditions, shall be driven in the right-hand lane then available for traffic or as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway.

Will a District Court judge agree with the interpretation of that statute that the Maryland State Police used?

I cannot say, though complaining to the police seems like a waste of time.  In Maryland, only the State's Attorney for the county where the infraction took place can void a traffic summons or citation once it is issued.  Or she can contest it in District Court - a judge might just find her not guilty.

I-95 Exit 33 is Md. 198 (Sandy Spring Road) in northern Prince George's County.  Posted limit is 65 MPH, and the 85th percentile speed is probably more like 75 MPH.

The only acceptable reason for being in the left lane for very long (and not going at least 65) is if she had entered the freeway from Md. 32, which has left-side entrance ramps (and the left-side merge is often tough there).  But she had plenty of miles to get over to one of the other lanes (if she entered from 32).
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

NE2

"if any existing conditions reasonably require a speed below that of the applicable maximum, at less than the normal speed of traffic under these conditions"

This means that it's only illegal to drive 2 under in the left lane if the normal is less than the speed limit. She did nothing illegal.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

cpzilliacus

MyEasternShoreMd.com: SHA to Hold Meeting About Proposed Overpass for Routes 301 and 304

QuoteCENTREVILLE — The community is invited and encouraged to attend a State Highway Administration meeting about the proposed overpass at Routes 301 and 304. It will be held in the cafeteria of Queen Anne's County High School on Tuesday April 30, from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m.

QuoteThe public meeting will include visual displays of the project, a presentation given by SHA, and an opportunity for public comments and questions. "We are urging citizens to come to the high school for this meeting, and that would include those in the western part of the county as well,"  said County Commissioner Phil Dumenil. "This is a county wide public safety issue and we need this over-pass."
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

WTOP Radio: U.S. 29, a popular alternate to I-95 in Maryland

QuoteSILVER SPRING, Md. - It's known by several names: U.S. 29, Colesville Road and Columbia Pike. It's a road many people use to commute between D.C. and Baltimore to avoid the hassle of Interstate 95 or the Baltimore-Washington Parkway.

Quote"I use it almost every day to commute because I work in Olney and I live inside the Beltway," says Jessie Manning of Silver Spring.

QuoteShe takes U.S. 29 to the InterCounty Connector to Interstate 370 and consciously chooses it over I-95. And she's not alone.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: 1995hoo on March 12, 2013, 11:09:17 AM
IIRC, that situation was part of what motivated Maryland to switch to milepost numbering in the early 1980s: Much like I-87 in New York or I-95 in Maine, Maryland's portion of I-95 had three different sets of exit numbers at that time–the Capital Beltway sequential numbers that ascended clockwise around the loop from US-1 in Virginia (Exit 1) to I-295 in Maryland (Exit 38), the "between-the-Beltways" numbers that (I believe) ascended northbound, and then a third set of sequential numbers on the JFK Highway. I don't remember how the numbers worked on the "between-the-Beltways" segment back then (and it also bears noting that I-95 was discontinuous at that time because the Fort McHenry Tunnel wasn't finished).

This is absolutely correct.

I did not really agree with SHA's decision to change the exit numbers on the  Capital Beltway, but the motivation was for the reasons you state above.  And it was pretty  nutty to have three sets of numbers in one (relatively) small state.

Regarding the "Between the Beltways" exit numbering on I-95, at the state, if memory serves, I think the exits were not numbered when the ribbon was cut in about 1973 or 1974, though at that point, I-95 through College Park and West Hyattsville into D.C. was still being discussed and studied.

At one point, there was also discussion about using the Baltimore-Washington Parkway for I-95 inside the Capital Beltway (it would not have been all that difficult or expensive to upgrade the Parkway to Interstate standards, though I think there were major issues with Section 4(f) [of the U.S. Department of Transportation Act of 1967], not only because the Parkway itself is considered parkland, but because the Parkway goes right through Greenbelt Park (IMO, one of the hidden gems of the National Park Service).

And through  Baltimore, I-95 was not completed until the Fort McHenry Tunnel opened in 1985 (prior to that, the only through routing was the I-895 Baltimore Harbor Tunnel Thruway, prominently signed as "TO I-95").
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

MyEasternShoreMd.com: Commercial stops snag tired truckers

QuoteCHESTERTOWN - For the second year, the Kent County Sheriff's Office has reported on commercial vehicle inspection stops.

QuoteIn 2012, there were 352 commercial vehicle stops. Most were on U.S. Route 301 or state Route 213, especially around Galena and Massey, where some truckers try to avoid weigh stations.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

kj3400

Quote from: 1995hoo on March 12, 2013, 11:09:17 AM

IIRC, that situation was part of what motivated Maryland to switch to milepost numbering in the early 1980s: Much like I-87 in New York or I-95 in Maine, Maryland's portion of I-95 had three different sets of exit numbers at that time—the Capital Beltway sequential numbers that ascended clockwise around the loop from US-1 in Virginia (Exit 1) to I-295 in Maryland (Exit 38), the "between-the-Beltways" numbers that (I believe) ascended northbound, and then a third set of sequential numbers on the JFK Highway. I don't remember how the numbers worked on the "between-the-Beltways" segment back then (and it also bears noting that I-95 was discontinuous at that time because the Fort McHenry Tunnel wasn't finished).

I haven't been to the west side of the Capital Beltway, so I wouldn't know, but does 95's numbering around the beltway screw with 495's numbering?
Call me Kenny/Kenneth. No, seriously.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: kj3400 on March 13, 2013, 03:29:00 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 12, 2013, 11:09:17 AM

IIRC, that situation was part of what motivated Maryland to switch to milepost numbering in the early 1980s: Much like I-87 in New York or I-95 in Maine, Maryland's portion of I-95 had three different sets of exit numbers at that time—the Capital Beltway sequential numbers that ascended clockwise around the loop from US-1 in Virginia (Exit 1) to I-295 in Maryland (Exit 38), the "between-the-Beltways" numbers that (I believe) ascended northbound, and then a third set of sequential numbers on the JFK Highway. I don't remember how the numbers worked on the "between-the-Beltways" segment back then (and it also bears noting that I-95 was discontinuous at that time because the Fort McHenry Tunnel wasn't finished).

I haven't been to the west side of the Capital Beltway, so I wouldn't know, but does 95's numbering around the beltway screw with 495's numbering?

It did originally.  The last Maryland exit on that side was 41 at the Clara Barton Parkway, then on the south  side of the Potomac was Exit 14 for the George Washington Memorial Parkway (which  dated back to 1964).  But VDOT renumbered the exits from the GWMP south to Springfield, so they are now consistent.

For the I-95/I-495 section of the Virginia Beltway, the I-95 exit numbering system is used, which means that the last exit in Virginia is Exit 176.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

1995hoo

Yes, in Virginia. The exit numbers ascend anti-clockwise in a continuation of Maryland's until you pass through the Springfield Interchange, which is Exit 57 on the Outer Loop. From there east to the Wilson Bridge it uses I-95's exit numbers, so the next exit (Van Dorn Street, which would be Exit 60 if the Beltway numbers prevailed) is Exit 173. It continues to Exit 177 in Virginia. On the Inner Loop, the Springfield Interchange is Exit 170 (same as on northbound I-95).

The Van Dorn Street exit is the one nearest to where I live and the number is no big deal to us but can be a big nuisance when giving somebody directions because of how it jumps from 57 to 173. That's one of many reasons why I don't rely solely on exit numbers when giving directions!


Edited to add: cpzilliacus posted while I was typing. Exit 176 is Telegraph Road; Exit 177 is US-1 just east of there. The last milepost in Virginia is Exit 178 as you ascend the western side of the Wilson Bridge.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

kj3400

I thought something was up, because I remember a long while ago that they had 'Old Exit #' plates over the exit tabs. This was when SB 95 still exited on the right with a 1.5 lane exit at the Springfield interchange though.
Call me Kenny/Kenneth. No, seriously.

1995hoo

Yeah, the way it evolved is:

Originally the Beltway had one set of numbers going clockwise from Exit 1 in Alexandria, Virginia, at US-1 on around to Exit 38 at I-295 right across the river from Exit 1. There was no Exit 22; it was planned but never built.

In part due to the screwy exit numbering on I-95, Maryland switched to milepost-based exit numbering in the early 1980s. Their numbers then became as they are now, starting with Exit 2 at I-295 and ascending anti-clockwise to Exit 41 at the (then) George Washington Parkway on the Maryland side (later renamed the Clara Barton Parkway to avoid confusion with the Virginia GW Parkway). The reason for going anti-clockwise on a beltway, when the MUTCD normally calls for going clockwise, is because the presence of I-95 on the eastern part of the Beltway trumped the normal rule.

Virginia didn't change to milepost numbering until the early 1990s but, when they did, they left the Beltway alone. At some point a new exit was added in Virginia between Exits 2 and 3 and it was numbered Exit 3A. So you still had Exit 1 to Exit 14 in Virginia in sequential order, plus the new Exit 3A.

Evidently some people found the numbering confusing and in the early 2000s Virginia decided to continue Maryland's milepost-based sequence on down to Springfield and then to use I-95's numbers for the remaining segment.

I've never understood why it was supposedly confusing to have the two states' numbers be non-continuous. Exit numbers reset at state lines all the time and it's arguably the exception rather than the rule to have them continue (though off the top of my head I can't say I can think of another beltway I've driven on that enters two states; I-495 in Delaware, which might touch Pennsylvania at one end, is not a good example, and I-295 in Delaware/New Jersey isn't really either). I suspect, though I do not know for sure, that part of the issue was that both Virginia and Maryland had an "Exit 2" located within four miles of each other and that some people got lost as a result. There were a few other duplicated numbers as well; as I say, I don't see why that was confusing, but evidently it was.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

vdeane

Probably because the state lines are very poorly signed there.  The only crossing that has them is the Woodrow Wilson Bridge, probably because of I-95.  As far as I know, there is no other state welcome sign on any highway in the area.  Unless you can tell the difference between the road signs (and let's be honest, Joe driver probably can't), you can't even tell you crossed a state boundary.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

1995hoo

Quote from: deanej on March 13, 2013, 05:23:58 PM
Probably because the state lines are very poorly signed there.  The only crossing that has them is the Woodrow Wilson Bridge, probably because of I-95.  As far as I know, there is no other state welcome sign on any highway in the area.  Unless you can tell the difference between the road signs (and let's be honest, Joe driver probably can't), you can't even tell you crossed a state boundary.

The American Legion Bridge has welcome signs. At least it always has for as long as I can remember. To be fair, the one on the Inner Loop (entering Maryland) appears after you pass the first exit.

Street View here for Inner Loop (the Maryland welcome sign is in the distance on the right; you can see it underneath the BGS with the distances): http://goo.gl/maps/WgSDW  If you pan it around and click into Virginia, you'll see the Virginia welcome sign below and to the right of the BGS for the first two exits.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Alex

Quote from: 1995hoo on March 13, 2013, 05:31:11 PM
Street View here for Inner Loop (the Maryland welcome sign is in the distance on the right; you can see it underneath the BGS with the distances): http://goo.gl/maps/WgSDW  If you pan it around and click into Virginia, you'll see the Virginia welcome sign below and to the right of the BGS for the first two exits.

Or you can see the Maryland welcome sign right here on AARoads:



The Virginia one is tucked behind the first sign bridge one sees while entering from MD:



It should get better placement, such as the way the Welcome Sign is posted on the WWB.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: 1995hoo on March 13, 2013, 04:17:34 PM
There was no Exit 22; it was planned but never built.

Exit 22 was supposed to have been the Northern Parkway, which  was to have been an extension of 16th Street, running across Md. 97 (Georgia Avenue), then under the Capital Beltway near Holy  Cross Hospital.  From the time that this section of the Beltway was built to 2001, there was a full-sized underpass for the Parkway near Holy Cross.  Several bridges were re-decked in 2000/2001, and that bridge was removed and replaced by a much smaller structure that provides space for the Sligo Creek bike trail and not much else.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.