Favorite and least favorite US- Canada Border Crossings

[thenetwork]

One of my favorite US/CAN crossings used to be the Whirlpool Bridge in Niagara Falls.  It was one of the easiest, simplest crossings between the two countries, and because it was off the beaten path, it was pretty much the crossing for locals.  It was also the creepiest crossing as you share a crossing with a rail line (located above the roadway on the upper deck of the bridge), which can rattle your nerves (literally) when a train is crossing at the same time.

In between 9/11 and the Passport era, it pretty much became the locals crossing as by that time, you needed one of those "NEXUS commuter passes" to even be allowed to use the bridge crossing.

[Alps]

Discussion of radar detectors has been moved to Off-Topic.

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=8802.0

[mgk920]

Re: electronics
Traveling overseas, I usually take multiple cell phones (my US iPhone, an unlocked older iPhone for prepaid SIM cards), an ipad, a Kindle, a laptop, a point and shoot camera, and my DSLR. My wife carries the same load minus the cameras. Quantity of electronic devices is not suspicious. I go overseas multiple times a year and have never been searched. From what I understand, when they do take a laptop, they basically do a search for all the .jpg pictures looking for child porn. Same with cameras. Those kind of searches are more commonly performed on people returning from places known for sex tourism like Thailand. The case mentioned in Wired where the confiscated the man's computer was due to the images they found. He was a professor studying modern Syrian culture (or something like that) and had a number of Hezbollah pictures which raised red flags.

A related news item here, the US Federal Court of Appeals, 9th Circuit, just ruled on a case of searching the hard drives of electronic stuff at the border.  I'm expecting this to be appealed to the Supremes.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/mar/8/court-limits-feds-ability-search-laptops-border/?utm_source=RSS_Feed&utm_medium=RSS

Mike

[Duke87]

Yes, it will be appealed to the supreme court. And the suspicionless searches of course won't stop in the meantime.

Tough to predict how the supreme court will rule... it would be a departure from precedent to uphold the ninth circuit decision, but as the ninth circuit argues, justification for that departure does exist.

[vdeane]

This is why I hate precedent.  It allows one to eat away at the original law.  For example, consider if the law was a line in the ground.  The first case to arise under it leads to the ruling "we'll move the line a little to accommodate this case since we believe it fits the spirit of the law".  Then the next case says "we'll move the line a little farther to accommodate this case since we believe it fits the spirit of the last case".  And so on.  Suddenly, you find that the line is where nobody ever intended it to be, the people who benefit are laughing manically (like this), and everyone else is screwed.  While it's a nice idea (to keep rulings consistent), it has terrible consequences.

[corco]

Sorry to necro, but this is a good enough story that even the guy who did a thorough secondary on me said "now you have a story!"

The people involved were very polite, very professional, and I enjoyed working with them. If I knew every secondary would go like this, I would have no problem being secondaried every time I crossed the border.

I deserved the secondary too, because I had no good story for why I was crossing the border. I definitely raised the flags, so I got what would be expected.

I pulled into the Coutts crossing tonight (I-15) on my way up to Canada today. I'd stopped in Great Falls to pick up a rental car, a new Hyundai Sonata with Washington plates.

I got to the border, and the lady asked the typical questions. I told her I was going to Lethbridge tonight, then on up to Edmonton. She asked why I had a car with Washington plates if I was from Montana. I explained it was a rental and she asked why I rented, to which I answered "better gas mileage, newer car." She asked what I was going to be doing in Edmonton, and I had no good answer because I hadn't really thought about it. I basically  said "I...uh...will probably go up the long way, taking either 22 or 36 and then ...uh...I dunno...maybe go to a museum or see a band or something. I haven't really thought about it" which is a totally honest answer, but not acceptable for that question and I knew it as I was saying it. She asked where I was staying in Lethbridge tonight and then where I was staying in Calgary [sic] tomorrow. She then started probing about my trip to Canada in February and wanted to make sure I didn't know anybody in Canada. I then got sent over to secondary.

I get nervous in these situations, to the point that I start visibly shaking, so that doesn't help things. The officer there asked a lot of the same questions, and said "she said you knew route numbers...have you researched this out or what?" and looked through my trunk, which just had one suitcase in it.  He did a non-invasive search of my suitcase but saw my laptop charger. He asked if I had a laptop, to which I replied "yes, it's in a bag in the front." He opened the bag which also had my hotel reservations for the next couple nights, and looked at them very carefully. He then explained that in Canada, a laptop search is like a suitcase search and is warranted and politely asked if he would find anything treasonous, related to organized crime, or any child porn. Obviously I didn't have any of that, so I said no and he opened up the laptop, set it on the roof of my car, and turned it on. He asked again if he might find anything weird, and I said "you'll probably find some road sign pictures and maybe some info related to my route" and he said "I'm looking for organized crime related stuff." He was facing me, so I couldn't see what he was doing. He asked more about my previous trip to Canada, and said "so you're just a guy who likes to travel, huh?" and I said "yep." He asked if I'd ever been secondaried before going into Canada and I answered that honestly. He asked where I worked, then asked if I worked today and if that's why I'm so late getting up here (9:30 PM).

I waited a couple minutes and he said "What did HP do to this thing?" and I said "What do you mean?" and he said "I can't get to anything" and I realized...Windows 8. I told him "oh, it's Windows 8" and waited a second and then said "Do you want me to walk over there and show you how to work it?" He hesitated for a second and said "sure." He wanted to see my "My Pictures" folder, so I guided him to that. He couldn't figure out how to work the start screen interface at all. Once that happened I stopped being so nervous.

All my road photos are on the desktop, so he wanted to see those.  This is a screenshot of my desktop as it was when that happened (http://www.corcohighways.org/desktop.jpg). He said "so the bc folder then, that contains photos from your trip to BC?" and I said "yes." He opened the rawphotos folder and opened one picture in the photo viewer, but neither of us could figure out how to make it scroll between photos. The picture he opened happened to be a random reassurance shield in Missouri from my Wichita trip and he said "where's that at?" and I said "Missouri".  I think at that point he realized I'm just a crazy person and not a criminal. A few seconds later he laughed and said "I'm confused, I need to learn Windows 8. Here's your passport. Put your laptop away and have a nice trip." As he walked away he said "and now you have a story!"

I tried to be as nice and helpful as possible, and I think that went a long way. I kept a smile on my face as he was searching and tried to help him search as best I could.

So that was...oddly interesting. He was really polite, never accused me of anything, and at the end I think  he realized I'm just a guy who likes roadtrips. I'm sure I'm on some red flag list now though...we'll see when I go back into the states on Monday.

Moral of the story is never give route numbers and have a plan- I had this too oddly specific story that had nothing to do with Edmonton, and that warranted a secondary. I think that's fair.

I'm 2 for 2 now on getting secondaried in the dark- once from Canada into the US in 07 and once from the US into Canada today, and both times have been really pleasant given the circumstances.

I don't know if this makes me reluctant to return to Canada- with a more obnoxious border agent that could have been really unpleasant but at the same time this one was kinda  on me for not having a straight answer to a simple question. I was going to go to Vancouver over Columbus Day and I may put that off since they were so interested in previous trips to Canada, but that trip would be to see a hockey game so that's a pretty good reason to go to Canada. We'll see.

[J N Winkler]

This is an interesting story.  I am tempted to suggest that you could get a TourBook for this part of Canada (comes free with AAA membership) and quote some of the starred attractions (now, cheesily, called "GEM" and marked with a cut-diamond logo--"GEM" is an initialism for "Great Experience for Members") along the planned itinerary.  But, on reflection, I am not sure this is a great idea because (1) you shouldn't have to tailor your itinerary description to the immigration officers' expectations of a "standard" tourist, and (2) if they record your answers and later refer to those records the next time you enter Canada, then those are hostages to fortune you don't want--"So, how was the Glenbow Museum when you visited it?" is really awkward when you haven't been there.

[AsphaltPlanet]

I don't know if this would make you more or less likely to be searched in the future.  I would think that the CBPA would log their encounter with you and use it for future interviews with you.  Today's experience with the border staff might actually make you less likely to be searched in the future.

[Scott5114]

You know, maybe I should install Linux on my laptop. . .

[vdeane]

This is one reason why a travel with my chromebook.  The other is that I'm lazy and don't want to fish my laptop power cord from the maze of cables in the back of my desk.

[hbelkins]

This is one of the reasons that I will probably never get to travel in Canada. They'd have a blast searching my MacBook, my Acer netbook, two iPads, an iPhone, an iPod Touch and all my other gadgetry. I'd have to budget a whole day for the border crossing.

And here I thought coming back home was the problematic area.

[corco]

I'm not sure... I'm going to rethink bringing my laptop in the future just because it's kind of a hassle. If you love traveling with devices and don't have a specific reason to be in Canada, yeah... I can see the desire to avoid. My brain works such that it kind of taints the whole trip- today a more than healthy part of my brain has been worried about crossing back in on Monday, when I should be enjoying myself. The only thing though...he clearly wasn't satisfied with just a suitcase check. If I hadn't had a laptop for him to search, I wonder what he would have done instead.

I don't know what the best solution is. I had better luck crossing last time when, when they asked my destination, I said "Alberta." and then explained I was driving a loop (I crossed from BC). I can't really say "Alberta" if I am crossing from a checkpoint that goes directly into Alberta, but I'm sure there's a phrasing that is both honest and wouldn't raise the flags. This time I said "Lethbridge and then up to Edmonton" and it sounded like I was backtracking when they asked why, me thinks. It's imperative to be honest- had I been lying I would have been tripped up by the questions yesterday, there's pretty much no way around it because I had to repeat the same story about my trip to Canada in Feburary about four times.

I've always had more trouble getting into Canada than back into the US, because usually my reasoning for being in Canada is tenuous at best for CBSA agents, but my reasons for returning to the US are obviously clear (and after I've actually been in Canada, it's a lot easier for me to explain with confidence what I did in Canada over what I'm going to do, and a lot easier to prove- I keep all my receipts which would clearly show that I spent my time on the road, and worse case is I have like a thousand photos of road signs that pretty much trace my route). I don't know if the US maybe has more info about me than Canada...any info the government has access to on me would strengthen my case as a non-criminal (stable government job, good credit, no record, etc), and the US always seems more concerned with me importing things which is easy enough to disprove while Canada is more concerned with my motives for entering Canada.

[NE2]

Say your destination is sightseeing.

[Kacie Jane]

Sightseeing where?  What sights?  Answering vaguely only opens the door to harder-to-answer questions.

[corco]

That worked last time, actually. When I said my destination was Alberta, I said I'd be sightseeing, and that worked well. I had to keep repeating it, but it worked. I said it this time, but sort of lumped it in after I said I was going to Edmonton and it seemed like a lie.

I don't know how many times you can use that in the same general area though before it raises flags anyway.

[mgk920]

This is one of the reasons that I will probably never get to travel in Canada. They'd have a blast searching my MacBook, my Acer netbook, two iPads, an iPhone, an iPod Touch and all my other gadgetry. I'd have to budget a whole day for the border crossing.

And here I thought coming back home was the problematic area.

I'm planning to wait until such time as the checkpoints can be removed, too.  If I pass on before then, well, c'est la vie.



Mike

[empirestate]

This is one of the reasons that I will probably never get to travel in Canada. They'd have a blast searching my MacBook, my Acer netbook, two iPads, an iPhone, an iPod Touch and all my other gadgetry. I'd have to budget a whole day for the border crossing.

And here I thought coming back home was the problematic area.

I'm planning to wait until such time as the checkpoints can be removed, too.  If I pass on before then, well, c'est la vie.



Mike

Oh come now, fellas...having gadgets isn't going to get you searched, having a vague plan is what does it. All you need is to pick one or two reasonable, truthful destinations or sights and state them as the purpose of your trip. If they ask you why you're crossing here instead of the "usual" place, just say you like taking back roads or you thought there'd be less traffic. How you get to and from your destinations doesn't even need to come up. I have been thoroughly questioned for what I thought was a pretty mundane crossing, because my itinerary was vague. Then another time, when I had an absolutely ridiculous-sounding (I thought) 36-hour international mission, there wasn't the slightest glimmer of suspicion.

Now if you do get pulled inside, yeah, you can always leave most of the gadgets at home–you already have to leave the guns, anyway, so what's another laptop or two?

Of course, yeah, you could always just not go in the first place. I happen to love Canada, so it's a safe assumption that H.B. would not be missing out on anything he'd be at all interested in.

As another option, you can just cross on foot at the Rainbow Bridge in Niagara Falls. This is usually super-easy, because you have no car with you to be searched, your destination, duration and purpose there are obvious (you're going to Niagara Falls for a few hours to be a tourist), and the toll is cheap (50 cents U.S.-bound, as of last week). Only problem is, sometimes there's only one officer handling pedestrians; or there might be two or three, but the others are tied up with suspicious characters like corco from when they got pulled in from their vehicles.

[Mr_Northside]

Say your destination is sightseeing.

This is pretty much S.O.P in the Niagara Falls area. 

I remember the first time (that I can remember) crossing the Peace Bridge.  My grandparents were with us, and my grandma was from Wales (and I don't think ever bothered to get citizenship, despite being married to my grandfather since the end of World War 2), so we had to deal with a bunch of stuff for that (I was only in 4th grade at the time, so I don't remember the details other than having to park, and she had to go into a building.

The only other crossing I've used was taking I-190 into Canada after visiting Fort Niagara... in 2010.  We give him our passports, and he starts asking about our "tickets".  We (I was driving) just had blank looks on our faces.  And he asked again; so I finally asked "What are you talking about?"  He said "For the game."
Apparently the Pirates were playing the Toronto Blue Jays, and since we were from near Pittsburgh he thought we were there for that.  They were so horrible then, I just told him "They're so bad we don't bother watching them in Pittsburgh.  We're gonna spend our time in Canada better than that." - or something to that effect.  He was fine with that, and let us on thru.
Other than that though, I've only ever crossed at the Peace Bridge (more often as a passenger), and other than traffic, haven't had any crappy experiences.  Not always the most pleasant customs agents (especially when "tripping balls"), but I suppose that comes from the job.

[Brandon]

Corco, if your destination was Edmonton, you have a great answer: West Edmonton Mall.  It's only the biggest tourist attraction in the province.

[deathtopumpkins]

Sightseeing where?  What sights?  Answering vaguely only opens the door to harder-to-answer questions.

Actually, for my one border crossing experience, I found the opposite to be true. The CBSA agent asked me what the purpose of my visit was, I said tourism, he asked me where I was going, I said I was driving a loop around Quebec, and he said okay have a nice day.
I would have thought it'd be more suspicious to give them a whole long list of things I was going to see.

[empirestate]

Sightseeing where?  What sights?  Answering vaguely only opens the door to harder-to-answer questions.

Actually, for my one border crossing experience, I found the opposite to be true. The CBSA agent asked me what the purpose of my visit was, I said tourism, he asked me where I was going, I said I was driving a loop around Quebec, and he said okay have a nice day.
I would have thought it'd be more suspicious to give them a whole long list of things I was going to see.

Exactly: not too vague, not too specific. You know, just act like a normal person, not a roadgeek. But again, don't just make up a story, they'll catch you in that for sure. Actually have enough of a touristic itinerary that they'll be satisfied with, then you needn't even get into why you might have thousands of photos of road signs on your laptop.

Apparently the Pirates were playing the Toronto Blue Jays, and since we were from near Pittsburgh he thought we were there for that.  They were so horrible then, I just told him "They're so bad we don't bother watching them in Pittsburgh.  We're gonna spend our time in Canada better than that." - or something to that effect.  He was fine with that, and let us on thru.

Hey, part of why I love going to Pirates home games is because they suck! There's no pressure; the fans are already resigned to the fact that it'll be a losing day, so there isn't anger and belligerence all around (and if they do win, it's a bonus). That, and it's probably the best view from a ballpark anywhere.

[J N Winkler]

In regard to the travelling-with-devices issue:  the last time I took a long-distance roadtrip, which was to Colorado and New Mexico in early September 2012, I took just my digital camera and my old laptop, which had already been cleaned of data.  I would never cross a border where search of devices is routine (as appears now to be the case at the US-Canadian border) except with "second devices" that are easy to sanitize.  It is too easy to have material on a primary computer that is either entirely legal in the country of origin (such as a stash of porn clips) or represents a comparatively minor violation of the law (such as a collection of TV rips of broadcast TV shows) that will cause all kinds of trouble in a border search.  While there are techniques for protecting this kind of content from casual search, such as packing it into encrypted ZIPs or into a folder hierarchy where the top-level folder has its attributes changed to "superhidden," the only way to be absolutely safe is to ensure it is not physically stored at all when crossing the border.  It is a hassle to deal with "home base" over the slow wireless connections that are typically available in budget motels, but if I were travelling in Canada for an extended period of time, I would get VPN server/client software to allow me to connect remotely to my primary computer for purposes of working with sensitive material.

This said, I don't see any value in boycotting Canada simply because searches of devices happens on occasion.  The Canadians are not going to change their border search policies simply because they are disfavored by a comparatively marginal group in the US.  Pretty much every other industrialized country at least keeps legal powers to search devices in reserve, even if such searches are not routinely carried out.

[AsphaltPlanet]

^ Put sensitive material on a portable hard drive and leave it at home.

I always travel with my laptop, and it has never been searched, and I usually tell the boarder staff that I have my laptop with me, so that I can use it to book hotels on-line for the later stages of my journey.

[oscar]

Just to follow up on my previous annoying border experiences:  I just got back from a trip to northern Manitoba, which included three round-trip border crossings (into Canada at US 281/MB 10, MN 72/ON 11, and MN 61/ON 61; return to the US at MB 59/US 59, ON 71/US 71, and I-75 at Sault Ste. Marie).  No hassles at all on any of the crossings, the closest I came to a secondary was having to open my hatch while I was in line so the agent could take a quick peek inside.

Considering my history as a magnet for secondary searches, either I'm now doing something right, or agents on both sides of the border have finally caught on that searching my vehicle would be a waste of time.

[empirestate]

I'll also add that I made my first use of my enhanced driver's license on my most recent crossing. I and two friends who also had EDLs were traveling together; they popped them into their machine, and we were on our way with the barest of questioning. I'll obviously need more experiences to judge whether the EDL does much to streamline the process, but it doubtless makes it easier for agents to track my border-crossing history. I guess I was a bit disappointed that, it being my birthday, I didn't get a friendly birthday wish from the agent, which has happened to me before.

(If you don't know, an EDL is a driver's license with extra encoded data that verifies citizenship, similar to a passport card. It can be used in lieu of a passport at Canadian and Mexican land crossings and seaports, as well as in the Caribbean. It costs extra and only a few states offer them, but if you think you might use it occasionally, it's a great way to skip the much-longer DMV line for a regular license!)