Coronavirus pandemic

[kalvado]

About the "18 month" Imperial College predictions, about the possibility of multiple waves of illness, one major problem I have with that study is that it makes the assumption that restrictions are fully lifted after a few months. Of course the virus will start returning if everything returns to normal at once! The study never considers what happens if we return to normal life gradually, i.e. if we start out by lifting some of the restrictions but not others. For example, maybe we'll have to wait this out until summer, but by doing so they're buying time to advance testing and identify cases more conclusively.

Perhaps, let's say, by September, jurisdictions will have become so confident with the testing that schools can reopen to non-infected staff and students with minimal risk of invoking spread, but everything else stays closed. Maybe in December, they can close schools for a month or so (under the pretext of an extended winter break?), but reopen malls and department stores--albeit likely with limited hours, etc.--and allow religious worship services for the Christmas season. Taking these kinds of measures would make for a good way to return to regular lifestyles while simultaneously curbing the virus and preventing a second wave. It's certainly better than the other extremes (either staying under lockdown until a vaccine is available, or completely resuming the status quo). What do you think?

Think about it in such a way: what kind of restrictions are used to slow down the process when there are 10s thousands infected in the country, and what kind of restrictions would work when there are only 10s cases. Hint: exponent would be the same in similar conditions. Just easing restrictions after wave subsides would just cause a new wave - and then another month of lockdown.

This is not just about restrictions, this is about new world order. "social distancing" seem to be weak suppression.
In particular, face masks should become a fashion - like one couldn't walk out without a hat for centuries, one would need a mask and underware in foreseeable future.

[bandit957]

In particular, face masks should become a fashion - like one couldn't walk out without a hat for centuries, one would need a mask and underware in foreseeable future.

Masks make it hard to blow a bubble with bubble gum.

[AlexandriaVA]

In particular, face masks should become a fashion - like one couldn't walk out without a hat for centuries, one would need a mask and underware in foreseeable future.

Masks make it hard to blow a bubble with bubble gum.

Not a problem in Singapore - chewing gum is banned.

[US71]

In particular, face masks should become a fashion - like one couldn't walk out without a hat for centuries, one would need a mask and underware in foreseeable future.

Masks make it hard to blow a bubble with bubble gum.

Thoughts and prayers

[Rothman]

New world order?

[DaBigE]

In particular, face masks should become a fashion - like one couldn't walk out without a hat for centuries, one would need a mask and underware in foreseeable future.

Masks make it hard to blow a bubble with bubble gum.

Just means you're going to have to get skilled in blowing smaller bubbles or learn to enjoy a slight cottony taste with your gum.

[webny99]

The pandemic is also revealing an ugly side of American culture: the widespread acceptance of anti-Asian racism.

Calling it the "Chinese virus", as the president does, just emboldens the racists.

Needlessly too. You can talk objectively about the origins of the disease - no serious person doubts that the virus emerged in Wuhan/Hubei Province. But the political spin gives a proverbial "green light" for people to go an run with it.

So if I call the 1918 flu outbreak the Spanish flu, does that mean I'm against Spanish people? Of course not! That's what it's most commonly known as, and no one thinks twice about using the term.

There's nothing different about calling this the Chinese virus - that's where it came from!
Give me a break, if we were all practicing social distancing and staying 6 feet from others like we should be, there would be no such narrative to build. It's baffling that people don't seem to be able to call the virus what it is while also not being against Asian-Americans.

[US71]

New world order?

Must.Not.Snark.

[US71]

The pandemic is also revealing an ugly side of American culture: the widespread acceptance of anti-Asian racism.

Calling it the "Chinese virus", as the president does, just emboldens the racists.

Needlessly too. You can talk objectively about the origins of the disease - no serious person doubts that the virus emerged in Wuhan/Hubei Province. But the political spin gives a proverbial "green light" for people to go an run with it.

So if I call the 1918 flu outbreak the Spanish flu, does that mean I'm against Spanish people? Of course not! That's what it's most commonly known as, and no one thinks twice about using the term.

There's nothing different about calling this the Chinese virus - that's where it came from!
Give me a break, if we were all practicing social distancing and staying 6 feet from others like we should be, there would be no such narrative to build. It's baffling that people don't seem to be able to call the virus what it is while also not being against Asian-Americans.

This is Corvid-19, despite what some pumpkin-hued politician says.  Or we could rename Swine Flu "American Flu" since it started in the U.S.

[jemacedo9]

The pandemic is also revealing an ugly side of American culture: the widespread acceptance of anti-Asian racism.

Calling it the "Chinese virus", as the president does, just emboldens the racists.

Needlessly too. You can talk objectively about the origins of the disease - no serious person doubts that the virus emerged in Wuhan/Hubei Province. But the political spin gives a proverbial "green light" for people to go an run with it.

So if I call the 1918 flu outbreak the Spanish flu, does that mean I'm against Spanish people? Of course not! That's what it's most commonly known as, and no one thinks twice about using the term.

There's nothing different about calling this the Chinese virus - that's where it came from!
Give me a break, if we were all practicing social distancing and staying 6 feet from others like we should be, there would be no such narrative to build. It's baffling that people don't seem to be able to call the virus what it is while also not being against Asian-Americans.

It would be interesting to see of there was a rash of retaliation against the Spanish back then.  Oh wait...that was commonplace back then before that flu outbreak. And after. And other groups.

But this is an interesting point nonetheless.  IMO this shouldn't be called the Chinese Virus AND that shouldn't be called the Spanish Flu.  That's why there are more official names.

[Rothman]

The pandemic is also revealing an ugly side of American culture: the widespread acceptance of anti-Asian racism.

Calling it the "Chinese virus", as the president does, just emboldens the racists.

Needlessly too. You can talk objectively about the origins of the disease - no serious person doubts that the virus emerged in Wuhan/Hubei Province. But the political spin gives a proverbial "green light" for people to go an run with it.

So if I call the 1918 flu outbreak the Spanish flu, does that mean I'm against Spanish people? Of course not! That's what it's most commonly known as, and no one thinks twice about using the term.

There's nothing different about calling this the Chinese virus - that's where it came from!
Give me a break, if we were all practicing social distancing and staying 6 feet from others like we should be, there would be no such narrative to build. It's baffling that people don't seem to be able to call the virus what it is while also not being against Asian-Americans.

You are wrong.

[DaBigE]

And yet we have no issues every time the weather people geographically tag weather systems? How about food? Any whackjob can turn anything into something derogatory. Where can/do we draw the line? I suppose it's much easier to make a blanket policy than it is to look at the context of who said it and how.

[Max Rockatansky]

New world order?

Must.Not.Snark.

Unless this NWO somehow involves Lizard People operating out of Denver International Airport then I'm afraid I must say our new overlords are kind boring.

[J N Winkler]

So if I call the 1918 flu outbreak the Spanish flu, does that mean I'm against Spanish people? Of course not! That's what it's most commonly known as, and no one thinks twice about using the term.

Actually, I do.  I've been calling it "the 1918 flu," not "the Spanish flu."  Admittedly, I am hyper-aware of how it is labelled because the most popular origin theory for decades was that it transitioned from birds to humans along the Mississippi flyway in Kansas, but it has never made sense to me to name it after Spain simply because it was a neutral country in World War I and thus had the press freedom to report it as it was once it mutated into something really virulent.  And now there are multiple origin theories, some of which put it in China.

There's nothing different about calling this the Chinese virus - that's where it came from!

Give me a break, if we were all practicing social distancing and staying 6 feet from others like we should be, there would be no such narrative to build. It's baffling that people don't seem to be able to call the virus what it is while also not being against Asian-Americans.

"Chinese virus" is still a stigmatizing phrase, and its use by authority figures amounts to tacit condoning of animus against Chinese and other people of east Asian descent.  And, in any event, current practice is no longer to name diseases after countries of supposed origin or groups of first sufferers--Marburg virus is not in fact from Marburg an der Lahn, you don't have to be a member of the American Legion to get Legionnaires disease, etc.  Why would we make an exception for COVID-19?

[kalvado]

The pandemic is also revealing an ugly side of American culture: the widespread acceptance of anti-Asian racism.

Calling it the "Chinese virus", as the president does, just emboldens the racists.

Needlessly too. You can talk objectively about the origins of the disease - no serious person doubts that the virus emerged in Wuhan/Hubei Province. But the political spin gives a proverbial "green light" for people to go an run with it.

So if I call the 1918 flu outbreak the Spanish flu, does that mean I'm against Spanish people? Of course not! That's what it's most commonly known as, and no one thinks twice about using the term.

There's nothing different about calling this the Chinese virus - that's where it came from!
Give me a break, if we were all practicing social distancing and staying 6 feet from others like we should be, there would be no such narrative to build. It's baffling that people don't seem to be able to call the virus what it is while also not being against
Asian-Americans.

Frankly speaking, Spanish flu settled over time and has little if any negative connotation.
Chinese virus was explicitly used to direct certain emotions, as COVID and coronavirus are common terms at this point. Given pretty strong anti-chinese policies and opinions, this adds up badly. US will pay a price for that. Actually, I think we're already paying - hospitals are collapsing without primitive equipment, and CHina is helping Italy, while not sending planeloads of stuff to US.

[AlexandriaVA]

Certain politicians and media outlets only made it a big point once it became obvious that the disease would take off in the US. They needed a diversionary tactic.

[dvferyance]

I would be in favor of a permanent travel ban on China. I mean really what do you need them for anyways? They are not are friends they haven't been for a really long time.

I disagree, they are a huge trading partner and it would be an economic disaster unto itself.  I haven't had a chance to reply to JN yet but I think he's right on the money about why new infections tend crop up in Asia first.

Yeah they have taken lots of our jobs away. They aren't are friends and never will be again. It's time that we get rid of that made in China label for good and make our own stuff again.

China took no US jobs.

US corporations willingly gave them to China (and Vietnam, Malaysia, et al)

None the  less those jobs were lost to China. In fact right now we are relying on the Chinese for face mask and respirators. I don't see how that is a good thing. We need to make our own stuff and stop relying on other countries for it.

[kalvado]

I would be in favor of a permanent travel ban on China. I mean really what do you need them for anyways? They are not are friends they haven't been for a really long time.

I disagree, they are a huge trading partner and it would be an economic disaster unto itself.  I haven't had a chance to reply to JN yet but I think he's right on the money about why new infections tend crop up in Asia first.

Yeah they have taken lots of our jobs away. They aren't are friends and never will be again. It's time that we get rid of that made in China label for good and make our own stuff again.

China took no US jobs.

US corporations willingly gave them to China (and Vietnam, Malaysia, et al)

None the  less those jobs were lost to China. In fact right now we are relying on the Chinese for face mask and respirators. I don't see how that is a good thing. We need to make our own stuff and stop relying on other countries for it.

US labor is very expensive - in line with high living standards. While justified for high-end product, like planes, it makes a lot of low-tech stuff prohibitively expensive compared to competitors. Globalization strikes back.

[Max Rockatansky]

I would be in favor of a permanent travel ban on China. I mean really what do you need them for anyways? They are not are friends they haven't been for a really long time.

I disagree, they are a huge trading partner and it would be an economic disaster unto itself.  I haven't had a chance to reply to JN yet but I think he's right on the money about why new infections tend crop up in Asia first.

Yeah they have taken lots of our jobs away. They aren't are friends and never will be again. It's time that we get rid of that made in China label for good and make our own stuff again.

China took no US jobs.

US corporations willingly gave them to China (and Vietnam, Malaysia, et al)

None the  less those jobs were lost to China. In fact right now we are relying on the Chinese for face mask and respirators. I don't see how that is a good thing. We need to make our own stuff and stop relying on other countries for it.

US labor is very expensive - in line with high living standards. While justified for high-end product, like planes, it makes a lot of low-tech stuff prohibitively expensive compared to competitors. Globalization strikes back.

More so, how many people these days State Side really want to work in industrial jobs?  The decline of American Manufacturing began from middle of the 20th Century and has continued to this day.  The shift falls totally in line with the U.S. becoming far more of a consumer society than a producer.  American consumers expect to pay low prices but American workers won't work for low wages.  That directly causes manufacturers to seek new territory where the price of doing business can remains low.  It would take a massive change in lifestyles of the average American for things to start trending towards manufacturing.  Worse, as a society we sorely lack a skilled workforce that we once had. 

[ixnay]

I'll be more happy to "buy American" once we start building quality stuff, and/or have better quality control. My car was made in Mexico, to the chagrin of many Americans, but it's screwed together nice and tight.

But it's cheaper to make things in Mexico or China. They don't have pesky things like Minimum Wage or environmental standards which add to the cost of everything.

However, Mexico does have better standards than China, and I really don't mind things being made in Mexico and raising their standard of living closer to ours, as they are a part of us, North America.  I favor the three of us (Canada, US, Mexico) standing together with our smaller neighbors in Central America and the Caribbean.

I have both Mexican and Chinese guitars, and they are all excellent. The days when American guitars were a lot better than guitars that are made elsewhere are over.

U304AA

No Paul Reed Smith guitars (imported from Stevensville, Maryland) available in Oklahoma?

https://www.prsguitars.com/

https://www.prsguitars.com/about/

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Paul+Reed+Smith+Guitars/@38.9884762,-76.3140652,732m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89b81b1fc65d283f:0x7752e14804a0b264!8m2!3d38.9881997!4d-76.3149753

ixnay

[kalvado]

US labor is very expensive - in line with high living standards. While justified for high-end product, like planes, it makes a lot of low-tech stuff prohibitively expensive compared to competitors. Globalization strikes back.

More so, how many people these days State Side really want to work in industrial jobs?  The decline of American Manufacturing began from middle of the 20th Century and has continued to this day.  The shift falls totally in line with the U.S. becoming far more of a consumer society than a producer.  American consumers expect to pay low prices but American workers won't work for low wages.  That directly causes manufacturers to seek new territory where the price of doing business can remains low.  It would take a massive change in lifestyles of the average American for things to start trending towards manufacturing.  Worse, as a society we sorely lack a skilled workforce that we once had.

Thanks. I had same thing written in pretty rude terms in my post, an choosen not to post that part.

[fwydriver405]

All SF Bay Area bridges have recently suspended their cash collection. Wonder if this will be a precedent for the Bay Area Toll Authority to switch to All-Electronic Tolling on the other bridges, like how the Golden Gate Bridge has been AET since 2013...

EDIT: All of the Bay Area express lanes are also open to all drivers as the MTC is also suspending express lane tolling until 7th April.

[LM117]

New world order?

[Bruce]

After the outbreak of MERS in 2012, the WHO determined that using geography-based names for worldwide diseases caused negative reactions (if not outright racism), so they barred it from being used officially. COVID-19 is the first major disease to come under these new guidelines.

The "Spanish flu" is misnamed and outdated in use, and should be referred to as the 1918 outbreak instead. Retroactively renaming things is fine for other fields, so why not disease?

Trump ignoring it (to the point of scratching it out on in his notes in front of cameras) is just another part of his blatant disregard for science that got us so deep into this mess.

[kwellada]

Trump ignoring it (to the point of scratching it out on in his notes in front of cameras) is just another part of his blatant disregard for science that got us so deep into this mess.

He should proceed very carefully because if this pandemic explodes in the United States, it could be rebranded the TrumpVirus.