Electric Car Arguing 2022

[Rothman]

I started to get rib pain from sitting in the car too long a couple of years ago.  Solution:  Slightly recline the seat.  Back to longer stints.

[HighwayStar]

I started to get rib pain from sitting in the car too long a couple of years ago.  Solution:  Slightly recline the seat.  Back to longer stints.

For my endurance drives I deploy a neck pillow in conjunction with a more reclined seat. Makes the head/neck extremely comfortable.

[1995hoo]

So he stopped every 2-3 hours. I do the same when I drive. I suppose I could get one of these, but honestly I don't think it's healthy to drive longer without getting out of the car and stretching a bit, even if it's only for a few minutes.

Heh. From Car and Driver's "EV 1000" article:

VanderWerp, in the Model S, wanted to post a big number on the first leg to make a statement. Possibly that statement was "No owner would ever do this." To maximize the energy available for moving the car, he ran a radar detector off a portable battery and played music through a Bluetooth speaker. With climate control off, the cabin temperature reached 86 degrees despite a 65-degree ambient temperature. At least all the sweating meant that neither VanderWerp nor his partner needed the TravelJohn disposable urinals they'd brought. They plugged into their first Supercharger after 326 miles and were back on the road 26 minutes later.

In the interest of further clarifying what the "EV 1000" article was about, here are the first three paragraphs. I suppose I should give a proper citation: Eric Tingwall, "The EV 1000," Car and Driver, July/Aug. 2021, at 55.

We didn't initially conceive this story as a race. But if you tell two or more Car and Driver editors that they need to drive from a start line to a finish line, there's no going back: You've officially sanctioned a race. Check the FIA sporting regulations.

The plan was to benchmark the state of EV technology and the nation's charging infrastructure by road-tripping EVs beyond the range of a single charge. By the time we got to the start line, we had the 11 vehicles from our EV of the Year test staged for a 1000-mile lap through four states, plus a name to prove that what we were about to do was twice as hardcore as the Indy 500: the EV 1000.

We did our best to keep it relatable to you, dear reader, by banning the usual hijinks: no taped-over panel gaps, no stripped interiors to save weight, no rented U-Hauls to break the wind. The point, we said over and over, was to capture the experience of driving an EV on a long road trip, just as an owner might. Naturally, then, half the teams pumped their tires over the recommended pressure, looking for any advantage that might go unnoticed.

At the end of the article, they reached the following conclusions (page 60):

Tesla's sweep of the podium makes it clear: If you want to regularly drive long distances in an EV today, you'll want a car with access to Tesla's proprietary charging infrastructure. The rest of the group trickled in over the next several hours, with the exception of the Leaf, which needed twice as long as the Tesla Model S to finish. With its short range and slow charging, the Nissan clearly wasn't intended to stray far from home.

Our drivers are split when asked whether the EV 1000 was harder or easier than expected, but most say that if they were to do the trip again, they would do one thing differently: drive a gas car. And that includes the Tesla drivers. We'll know that the charging networks and EV technology are fully baked when we're no longer saying that.

The EVs involved, in order of finish: Tesla Model S Long Range Plus; Tesla Model Y Performance; Tesla Model 3 Performance; Ford Mustang Mach-E 4X; Porsche Taycan 4S PBP; Kia Niro EV; Audi e-tron; Volkswagen ID.4; Volvo XC40 Recharge; Polestar 2; Nissan Leaf Plus. (The Nissan took more than double the Model S's total time to finish, including both driving and charging time–16:14 for the Tesla, 32:57 for the Nissan. The Polestar had a problem with buggy software at some charging stations.)



Edited to fix a typo.

[jdbx]

I don't stop unless I have to, and that's only for necessities (fuel or bathroom breaks) and I make those stops as brief as possible. I don't stop to eat; I get drive-through or carryout and eat while I'm driving. It's not all that often that I find myself needing to stop solely for the sake of stretching my legs. Those factors make electric cars less practical for me.

I would hazard a guess that the percentage of people who prefer eating in a car is lower than those that prefer stopping. I can eat in the car if I'm running short on time, but if eating at an actual table is at all an option, I greatly prefer doing that. And there are some people who absolutely will not have food in their car at all, full stop, because of the messiness or the smell. (I remember reading one of the forum regulars even goes to the extreme of putting takeout in their trunk out of a fear of lingering food odors.)

That post was from a while ago, but he still does that.

I never eat in the car other than maybe a candy bar or M&Ms; I also don't transport fast food in the passenger compartment so the cars won't absorb the aroma (so if I want to get food to go, I don't use the drive-thru–I go inside and then put it in the trunk). The exception to the latter is if I'm driving the convertible with the top down.

When I was in school I used to eat in the car every once in a while, but I stopped that years ago. Trying to eat something like a burger was never easy while operating a manual shift anyway.

Same for me.  I don't like anybody eating in the car because crumbs invariably end up everywhere.  No take-out in the passenger compartment either, the last thing I want is for my car to smell like last night's chicken tikka masala.

[Bruce]

A good-quality food delivery bag is all you need to contain smells. I've delivered many very smelly foods in my car and it doesn't linger around. If there is a spill (mostly drinks and the like despite the cupholder system I use), then a bit of charcoal usually does the trick.

[1995hoo]

So to throw a bone to HighwayStar, I was just reading a review of Mazda's new EV, the MX-30. The review generally praised it but noted one not-so-minor problem: Its EPA-estimated range is only 100 miles, and the review said in practical use (including some highway driving, climate control on, etc.) the actual range is more like 70 miles. That's ridiculous, especially in a vehicle with a starting MSRP of $33,000. 70 miles is nothing. It's easy to drive 70 miles just in local driving.

[mgk920]

So to throw a bone to HighwayStar, I was just reading a review of Mazda's new EV, the MX-30. The review generally praised it but noted one not-so-minor problem: Its EPA-estimated range is only 100 miles, and the review said in practical use (including some highway driving, climate control on, etc.) the actual range is more like 70 miles. That's ridiculous, especially in a vehicle with a starting MSRP of $33,000. 70 miles is nothing. It's easy to drive 70 miles just in local driving.

Also, a few years ago there was a (lake effect?)snowstorm that dumped nearly a meter of snow on downtown Chicago during an evening  commuter rush, standing likely over 1000 drivers in their cars for hours in the snow on Lake Shore Drive.

A commentary that I heard on the radio a couple of days later include thoughts on how many of those people might have died had they been in such straight battery-electric cars and the batteries run down just keeping the heat on.

Mike

[1995hoo]

^^^^^

The debacle on I-95 in Virginia earlier this winter led to some discussion of that on the news. There was some pretty convincing evidence that EV drivers were actually better-able to keep their cars heated than gas-car drivers, though of course the particular type of EV would be a very significant factor in that equation. Something with a dinky battery like that Mazda likely wouldn't do too well, but then I wonder how many of those would have been on the highway in the first place even if they had been more widely available at the time.

[SEWIGuy]

Nobody was going to die in downtown Chicago because the batteries ran out on their cars in a snowstorm.  There are legitimate issues with EV's that prevent many people from purchasing them, but being hyperbolic isn't helpful.

[HighwayStar]

Nobody was going to die in downtown Chicago because the batteries ran out on their cars in a snowstorm.  There are legitimate issues with EV's that prevent many people from purchasing them, but being hyperbolic isn't helpful.

That greatly depends on where in Chicago you break down. I would rather be stranded in the Dakotas in a blizzard than some parts of Chicago, at least unless the vehicle is an M1 Tank.

[SEWIGuy]

Nobody was going to die in downtown Chicago because the batteries ran out on their cars in a snowstorm.  There are legitimate issues with EV's that prevent many people from purchasing them, but being hyperbolic isn't helpful.

Well this was specifically Lake Shore Drive.  Which means you were never more than a few blocks from somewhere nice and warm, not to mention that police were patrolling the area giving out food, water and fuel.

But I wouldn't care where this happened in Chicago.  Of course, I don't stay away from the city in a panic either.

That greatly depends on where in Chicago you break down. I would rather be stranded in the Dakotas in a blizzard than some parts of Chicago, at least unless the vehicle is an M1 Tank.

[Max Rockatansky]

I lived in Chicago, you aren't likely to find trouble unless you're actively looking for it.  More than likely if you broke down you would be left alone.  You definitely would get help infinitely faster anywhere in Chicago compared to rural South Dakota.

[jeffandnicole]

So to throw a bone to HighwayStar, I was just reading a review of Mazda's new EV, the MX-30. The review generally praised it but noted one not-so-minor problem: Its EPA-estimated range is only 100 miles, and the review said in practical use (including some highway driving, climate control on, etc.) the actual range is more like 70 miles. That's ridiculous, especially in a vehicle with a starting MSRP of $33,000. 70 miles is nothing. It's easy to drive 70 miles just in local driving.

Also, a few years ago there was a (lake effect?)snowstorm that dumped nearly a meter of snow on downtown Chicago during an evening  commuter rush, standing likely over 1000 drivers in their cars for hours in the snow on Lake Shore Drive.

A commentary that I heard on the radio a couple of days later include thoughts on how many of those people might have died had they been in such straight battery-electric cars and the batteries run down just keeping the heat on.

Mike

I never get this.  Anytime there's people stranded on a highway, ultimately some will run out of gas.  Yet these news reporters and EV-haters keep focusing on if people had an electric vehicle, they would run out of electric.  I'm having a tough time finding a single person who ended up running out of electric.

People have run out of gas, even though gas stations are plentiful, and there's endless alerts warning people to keep their tanks no less than half-full in winter weather.  Why not focus on those idiots first.

[kalvado]

So to throw a bone to HighwayStar, I was just reading a review of Mazda's new EV, the MX-30. The review generally praised it but noted one not-so-minor problem: Its EPA-estimated range is only 100 miles, and the review said in practical use (including some highway driving, climate control on, etc.) the actual range is more like 70 miles. That's ridiculous, especially in a vehicle with a starting MSRP of $33,000. 70 miles is nothing. It's easy to drive 70 miles just in local driving.

Also, a few years ago there was a (lake effect?)snowstorm that dumped nearly a meter of snow on downtown Chicago during an evening  commuter rush, standing likely over 1000 drivers in their cars for hours in the snow on Lake Shore Drive.

A commentary that I heard on the radio a couple of days later include thoughts on how many of those people might have died had they been in such straight battery-electric cars and the batteries run down just keeping the heat on.

Mike

I never get this.  Anytime there's people stranded on a highway, ultimately some will run out of gas.  Yet these news reporters and EV-haters keep focusing on if people had an electric vehicle, they would run out of electric.  I'm having a tough time finding a single person who ended up running out of electric.

People have run out of gas, even though gas stations are plentiful, and there's endless alerts warning people to keep their tanks no less than half-full in winter weather.  Why not focus on those idiots first.

One may argue that it is much easier to replenish gas on a highway.
On the other hand, I wonder what is the idling endurance of ICE with half tank compared to climate control only EV with half battery

[HighwayStar]

I lived in Chicago, you aren't likely to find trouble unless you're actively looking for it.  More than likely if you broke down you would be left alone.  You definitely would get help infinitely faster anywhere in Chicago compared to rural South Dakota.

Nearly 800 people were killed in Chicago just last year. Unless I am going to breakdown with a couple companies of Marines I would much rather be in South Dakota.

[hotdogPi]

I lived in Chicago, you aren't likely to find trouble unless you're actively looking for it.  More than likely if you broke down you would be left alone.  You definitely would get help infinitely faster anywhere in Chicago compared to rural South Dakota.

Nearly 800 people were killed in Chicago just last year. Unless I am going to breakdown with a couple companies of Marines I would much rather be in South Dakota.

That's slightly more than two per day out of a population of almost 3 million. And most homicides are of people they know, not strangers.

[HighwayStar]

I lived in Chicago, you aren't likely to find trouble unless you're actively looking for it.  More than likely if you broke down you would be left alone.  You definitely would get help infinitely faster anywhere in Chicago compared to rural South Dakota.

Nearly 800 people were killed in Chicago just last year. Unless I am going to breakdown with a couple companies of Marines I would much rather be in South Dakota.

That's slightly more than two per day out of a population of almost 3 million. And most homicides are of people they know, not strangers.

That is a rate 7 fold where I live. Of course, that is just  homicides, which are a great way to proxy other crimes. Multiply those numbers for people that were attacked, shot but did not die, or robbed. And while many are people that they knew, that does not mean a stranger in the wrong part of town is not a target.

[Max Rockatansky]

I lived in Chicago, you aren't likely to find trouble unless you're actively looking for it.  More than likely if you broke down you would be left alone.  You definitely would get help infinitely faster anywhere in Chicago compared to rural South Dakota.

Nearly 800 people were killed in Chicago just last year. Unless I am going to breakdown with a couple companies of Marines I would much rather be in South Dakota.

Like I said, if you aren't looking for trouble it likely won't find you in Chicago.  You seem to be under the impression that crime just descends upon you in Chicago, it doesn't usually anywhere by default.  Either way, I'm aware of what the Uniform Crime Report says about Chicago.  1 also pointed out an important fact about murder, most people knew their killer.

Given your statement about South Dakota I'm assuming you haven't been on some of the more rural highways in the state.  I'd hate to be broken down the likes of say a US 85 north of I-90 during a snowstorm.  It would be a long time before anyone got to you and you might have cell reception to call for help. 

[Scott5114]

Maybe you should get out from behind your barbed wire and see the real world for a change.

[Max Rockatansky]

Maybe you should get out from behind your barbed wire and see the real world for a change.

But then the criminal gangs would descend upon him like a Mad Max movie.

[Scott5114]

Maybe you should get out from behind your barbed wire and see the real world for a change.

But then the criminal gangs would descend upon him like a Mad Max movie.

He can lock himself in the toilet of his Ultimate Road Trip Car™.

[Max Rockatansky]

Maybe you should get out from behind your barbed wire and see the real world for a change.

But then the criminal gangs would descend upon him like a Mad Max movie.

He can lock himself in the toilet of his Ultimate Road Trip Car™.

Too bad Cadillac didn't jump on cornering the car toilet when they had the chance.

[brad]

Serious question. Is HighwayStar just doing a shtick for attention or is he really that ignorant?

[hotdogPi]

Serious question. Is HighwayStar just doing a shtick for attention or is he really that ignorant?

I think those are his true beliefs.

[HighwayStar]

Serious question. Is HighwayStar just doing a shtick for attention or is he really that ignorant?

I think those are his true beliefs.

There is no "belief" that Chicago has a crime problem, that is a fact, it has noticeably higher rates of crime than the rest of the country.