Service Areas on toll roads accessible from other roads

[Brandon]

Roy Rogers is more than just burgers though - they are also fried chicken and roast beef.

And maybe that is some of the problem as well...When someone says Roast Beef, Arby's probably comes to mind.  When someone says Fried Chicken, KFC & Popeyes are the front runners there.  Burgers - dozens of restaurants carry them.  Roy Rogers does all 3.

Roy Rogers may have tried to overreach their brand by doing everything, to the point where they are most well known for their fixings station and not much else.  I'm not sure lettuce, tomato, ketchup and mustard is a very huge selling point for people undecided what they want to eat.

Exactly.  I never think of Roy's and hamburgers.  To me, they're a roast beef place first and foremost, better than Arby's.  In fact, with the western connotations of the name "Roy Rogers", they might be better off dumping the burgers from the menu for any sort of expansion and going whole bovine into roast beef and related sandwiches and maybe having the fried chicken on the side.

[briantroutman]

I can only provide three data points to counter that, in Maryland and Virginia.

Certainly, it's a different story in the Maryland/Northern Virginia region–because that's been their home territory for decades (as a result of Marriott being headquartered in D.C.) and today, that's where most of their better-run standalone stores are located.

But even on their home turf, they haven't really been growing. In 2003, they had 23 locations in Maryland; today there are 19. In that same time, Virginia is up slightly from 6 to 8. They have opened a few new stores (like you mentioned) but closed several more.

They do have impressive brand loyalty–one of the reasons why the attempted forced conversion of many locations to Hardee's was met with almost insurgency-level resistance from Roy's customers. And caused Hardee's retreat. I think, though, that Roy's will need something compelling and different to attract new customers to the brand. And as I said before, I like Roy Rogers, and I wish them all the success in the world.

(though I believe that In-N-Out would do well if they decided to expand beyond their current "footprints" in the West and in Texas).

There is a certain practical limit to In-N-Out's growth, though, because it is essentially a family-owned and run business that doesn't believe in either debt or franchising. If they did expand nationally, I suspect it would cause some dilution of who and what they are.

[PHLBOS]

As I recall, there was only one McDonald's location in the history of the company that closed - without relocating to an adjacent site - soley due to poor sales.  That was in Central Square, Lynn, in the late 1970s.  The restaurant was opened as one of the cornerstone fixtures of the failed Union Street walkway project.

The Beverly one along MA 1A south of MA 22/127 junction closed when the new Essex Bridge to Salem opened.  I don't believe it was replaced with a relocated one.

Abandoned McDonald's at Beverly-Salem Border

[Indyroads]

Roy Rogers is more than just burgers though - they are also fried chicken and roast beef.

And maybe that is some of the problem as well...When someone says Roast Beef, Arby's probably comes to mind.  When someone says Fried Chicken, KFC & Popeyes are the front runners there.  Burgers - dozens of restaurants carry them.  Roy Rogers does all 3.

Roy Rogers may have tried to overreach their brand by doing everything, to the point where they are most well known for their fixings station and not much else.  I'm not sure lettuce, tomato, ketchup and mustard is a very huge selling point for people undecided what they want to eat.

Exactly.  I never think of Roy's and hamburgers.  To me, they're a roast beef place first and foremost, better than Arby's.  In fact, with the western connotations of the name "Roy Rogers", they might be better off dumping the burgers from the menu for any sort of expansion and going whole bovine into roast beef and related sandwiches and maybe having the fried chicken on the side.

Anyone remember Rax Roast beef

[briantroutman]

Anyone remember Rax Roast beef

Had one in my hometown growing up, but it closed 20 years ago. At that time, I don't think "Roast Beef"  was part of the name (the sign said just "Rax" ), and the menu seemed like an odd assortment that included roast beef, hot ham and cheese, and chicken sandwiches as well as a salad bar and even a few burgers, I believe. I do recall the dining area being somewhat ornate for a fast food joint with carpeting, raised and lowered seating sections, brass-like railings, hanging plants, and wood wainscoting on the walls.

[Brandon]

Roy Rogers is more than just burgers though - they are also fried chicken and roast beef.

And maybe that is some of the problem as well...When someone says Roast Beef, Arby's probably comes to mind.  When someone says Fried Chicken, KFC & Popeyes are the front runners there.  Burgers - dozens of restaurants carry them.  Roy Rogers does all 3.

Roy Rogers may have tried to overreach their brand by doing everything, to the point where they are most well known for their fixings station and not much else.  I'm not sure lettuce, tomato, ketchup and mustard is a very huge selling point for people undecided what they want to eat.

Exactly.  I never think of Roy's and hamburgers.  To me, they're a roast beef place first and foremost, better than Arby's.  In fact, with the western connotations of the name "Roy Rogers", they might be better off dumping the burgers from the menu for any sort of expansion and going whole bovine into roast beef and related sandwiches and maybe having the fried chicken on the side.

Anyone remember Rax Roast beef

Remember?  Shoot, there's still one here in town (Joliet, IL).

[cpzilliacus]

As I recall, there was only one McDonald's location in the history of the company that closed - without relocating to an adjacent site - soley due to poor sales.

I don't know the reason for its closing, but there used to be a McDonald's at Bladensburg Road and Meigs Place, N.E. in the District of Columbia that was never replaced.   The building is still there (it stood vacant for many years) here.

There is also an abandoned McDonald's on Martin Luther King, Jr. Avenue, S.E. (also in D.C.) that was never replaced here.  It closed many years ago because some mentally ill patients who were allowed to leave the adjacent St. Elizabeth's Hospital campus during the day would "hang out" at this restaurant for hours on end, discouraging paying customers.  The owners might want to consider opening it again, since its next door neighbor now is a complex owned by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security  (the parcel of land between MLK Avenue and I-295 was no longer needed for treating patients and declared surplus and ultimately transferred to DHS for redevelopment and use as its headquarters some years ago).

[Alps]

Roy Rogers is more than just burgers though - they are also fried chicken and roast beef.

And maybe that is some of the problem as well...When someone says Roast Beef, Arby's probably comes to mind.  When someone says Fried Chicken, KFC & Popeyes are the front runners there.  Burgers - dozens of restaurants carry them.  Roy Rogers does all 3.

Roy Rogers may have tried to overreach their brand by doing everything, to the point where they are most well known for their fixings station and not much else.  I'm not sure lettuce, tomato, ketchup and mustard is a very huge selling point for people undecided what they want to eat.

Exactly.  I never think of Roy's and hamburgers.  To me, they're a roast beef place first and foremost, better than Arby's.  In fact, with the western connotations of the name "Roy Rogers", they might be better off dumping the burgers from the menu for any sort of expansion and going whole bovine into roast beef and related sandwiches and maybe having the fried chicken on the side.

Not to derail the thread (well, okay, just a little), but growing up, Roy Rogers = fried chicken to me. So talk about your brand identity crises.

[Buck87]

Anyone remember Rax Roast beef

Yep, Bellevue had one briefly in the early 2000's. It replaced a Hardee's, and then only stayed open for a couple years or so before closing for good. Then the building sat vacant for a decade, in fact, it just got torn down a day or two ago.

I remember it being pretty good for a fast food joint. Too bad it didn't last.

[bulldog1979]

As I recall, there was only one McDonald's location in the history of the company that closed - without relocating to an adjacent site - soley due to poor sales.  That was in Central Square, Lynn, in the late 1970s.  The restaurant was opened as one of the cornerstone fixtures of the failed Union Street walkway project.

The Beverly one along MA 1A south of MA 22/127 junction closed when the new Essex Bridge to Salem opened.  I don't believe it was replaced with a relocated one.

Abandoned McDonald's at Beverly-Salem Border

The McDonalds in Mackinaw City, Michigan, used to close for the winter every year. Sometime since 2000, it has just closed without a replacement. As far as I know, there was no replacement for the McDonalds in Waters, Michigan, off I-75.

[empirestate]

As I recall, there was only one McDonald's location in the history of the company that closed - without relocating to an adjacent site - soley due to poor sales.  That was in Central Square, Lynn, in the late 1970s.  The restaurant was opened as one of the cornerstone fixtures of the failed Union Street walkway project.

The Beverly one along MA 1A south of MA 22/127 junction closed when the new Essex Bridge to Salem opened.  I don't believe it was replaced with a relocated one.

Abandoned McDonald's at Beverly-Salem Border

The McDonalds in Mackinaw City, Michigan, used to close for the winter every year. Sometime since 2000, it has just closed without a replacement. As far as I know, there was no replacement for the McDonalds in Waters, Michigan, off I-75.

A McDonald's closed on State St. in downtown Rochester. The Chinese restaurant that replaced it didn't even bother to swap out the McDonald's-style doors. As far as I know, they're still on the building!

[hbelkins]

Re: Rax Roast Beef. Not many of them left around. I used to eat at the one in London, Ky. just about every Friday for a long stretch back in the late 1980s when I had to travel there weekly for work purposes. I also ate at the one in Aberdeen, Ohio (across the river from Maysville, Ky.) pretty frequently when I was in that area.

Re: Roy Rogers and Hardee's. The one time I've eaten Roy Rogers food (at a service area on some toll road, I think it may have been the NY Thruway), I liked it. I got a burger and it was very good for a fast-food burger. As for those who mentioned Hardees, one of the things I really liked about the Hardee's of 25-30 years ago was their menu variety. If you wanted a burger, you could get a burger (and it was charbroiled, too). If you wanted roast beef or ham, they had that too. Now they're doing mostly overpriced fast food burgers.

[Kacie Jane]

As I recall, there was only one McDonald's location in the history of the company that closed - without relocating to an adjacent site - soley due to poor sales.  That was in Central Square, Lynn, in the late 1970s.  The restaurant was opened as one of the cornerstone fixtures of the failed Union Street walkway project.

The Beverly one along MA 1A south of MA 22/127 junction closed when the new Essex Bridge to Salem opened.  I don't believe it was replaced with a relocated one.

Abandoned McDonald's at Beverly-Salem Border

The McDonalds in Mackinaw City, Michigan, used to close for the winter every year. Sometime since 2000, it has just closed without a replacement. As far as I know, there was no replacement for the McDonalds in Waters, Michigan, off I-75.

A McDonald's closed on State St. in downtown Rochester. The Chinese restaurant that replaced it didn't even bother to swap out the McDonald's-style doors. As far as I know, they're still on the building!

[1995hoo]

Re: Rax Roast Beef. Not many of them left around. I used to eat at the one in London, Ky. just about every Friday for a long stretch back in the late 1980s when I had to travel there weekly for work purposes. I also ate at the one in Aberdeen, Ohio (across the river from Maysville, Ky.) pretty frequently when I was in that area.

Re: Roy Rogers and Hardee's. The one time I've eaten Roy Rogers food (at a service area on some toll road, I think it may have been the NY Thruway), I liked it. I got a burger and it was very good for a fast-food burger. As for those who mentioned Hardees, one of the things I really liked about the Hardee's of 25-30 years ago was their menu variety. If you wanted a burger, you could get a burger (and it was charbroiled, too). If you wanted roast beef or ham, they had that too. Now they're doing mostly overpriced fast food burgers.

I think the issue with Hardee's is that they got bought out sometime in the late 1980s and then got bought out again by the people who own Carl's Jr. (which I've never visited, but I understand the new Hardee's logo with that star is based on the Carl's Jr. logo). They discontinued the charbroiled burgers sometime in the early 1980s as part of a cost-cutting move (prior to the ill-fated acquisition of Roy Rogers, which was done primarily because Hardee's wanted to sell Roy's fried chicken).

I haven't seen a Hardee's location in quite some time (the one I remember on Gallows Road in Northern Virginia is now an Arby's). I remember after the ill-fated Roy's acquisition they switched a bunch of them back to being Roy's and the sign said "Roy Rogers featuring Hardee's breakfast." I seem to recall the breakfast was pretty good. The last time I ate at a Hardee's was sometime in the late 1990s either at one that was just off I-95 in the Petersburg area (may have actually been Colonial Heights–near where the toll plaza used to be) on my way to or from Duke or at one that was on Chapel Hill Road in Durham, NC.

[PHLBOS]

I think the issue with Hardee's is that they got bought out sometime in the late 1980s and then got bought out again by the people who own Carl's Jr. (which I've never visited, but I understand the new Hardee's logo with that star is based on the Carl's Jr. logo).

Correct.

I haven't seen a Hardee's location in quite some time (the one I remember on Gallows Road in Northern Virginia is now an Arby's).

There's 5 of them in Delaware.

[briantroutman]

I think the issue with Hardee's is that they got bought out sometime in the late 1980s and then got bought out again by the people who own Carl's Jr...

Yes and no. Hardee's was bought out by CKE (the parent of Carl's Jr.) in 1997, but by that time, Hardee's had already hit bottom (or was close to it). If anything, CKE turned the company around.

Going back to the '60s and '70s, Hardee's was basically a regional chain in their home state of NC and surrounding ones, with their reputation built on "charco-broiled"  burgers. They introduced made-from-scratch breakfast biscuits in 1978–which became a hallmark menu item–in an era when many fast food restaurants didn't offer breakfast at all.

Hardee's was bought by the Canadian tobacco conglomerate IMASCO that same year (1978), and the new owners expanded Hardee's reach by buying up other regional burger chains and converting them to Hardee's. Their forced conversion of Burger Chef in 1982 embittered many former fans, and the Roy Rogers customer revolt has been mentioned. All the while, IMASCO drained Hardee's dry–slashing payrolls, cutting corners–diluting the product and still expanding to places where the Hardee's brand was unknown, unloved, and unwanted.

CKE bought Hardee's primarily because there was little overlap between its Southeast/Midwest territory and Carl's Jr.'s footprint in the West. Today, Hardee's is largely "Carl's East" , but there has been some cross pollination with Hardee's breakfast appearing in Carl's Jr. locations.

I haven't seen a Hardee's location in quite some time...

I think Hardee's (still then under IMASCO) gave up on the greater Washington area after the Roy's debacle. They do have locations further north in PA (and DE, as mentioned). The continued strength of Roy Rogers in that market may be enough to keep CKE from trying again.

[jeffandnicole]

I think the issue with Hardee's is that they got bought out sometime in the late 1980s and then got bought out again by the people who own Carl's Jr. (which I've never visited, but I understand the new Hardee's logo with that star is based on the Carl's Jr. logo).

Correct.

I haven't seen a Hardee's location in quite some time (the one I remember on Gallows Road in Northern Virginia is now an Arby's).

There's 5 of them in Delaware.

The Northeastern-most location I'm aware of is in Middletown, DE.  This is about the same area where the Northeastern-most Waffle House is located (well, unless you include Elkton, MD).

[theline]

Hardee's was bought by the Canadian tobacco conglomerate IMASCO that same year (1978), and the new owners expanded Hardee's reach by buying up other regional burger chains and converting them to Hardee's. Their forced conversion of Burger Chef in 1982 embittered many former fans, and the Roy Rogers customer revolt has been mentioned. All the while, IMASCO drained Hardee's dry–slashing payrolls, cutting corners–diluting the product and still expanding to places where the Hardee's brand was unknown, unloved, and unwanted.

Added emphasis is mine.

As a Midwesterner, I had visited a Hardee's in the South while vacationing in the '70s and I generally liked what I got. However, taking away my Burger Chefs was unacceptable, so I have engaged in a decades-long one person boycott. I was sure that it would bring Hardees to their knees, but it hasn't yet.

I did "cheat" on the boycott once when I stopped in desperation at an Indiana Toll Road plaza and had a Hardee's breakfast sandwich. It was actually very tasty and served promptly, damn it!   

[empirestate]

The Northeastern-most location I'm aware of is in Middletown, DE.  This is about the same area where the Northeastern-most Waffle House is located (well, unless you include Elkton, MD).

Or Lancaster–hell, Clarks Summit, PA.

(How many Waffle Houses ever did the karaoke Mondays, by the way?)

[hbelkins]

It took awhile for Hardee's to get to Kentucky. On several family vacations in the late 1960s and early 1970s, our route took us through Abingdon, Va., where we got on I-81. There was a Hardee's near the Alt. US 58 interchange, and that was often our first stop of the trip so my dad could get one of their steak biscuits. This was probably one of the closest Hardee's restaurants to our home until they expanded into Kentucky.

[US81]

[/quote]

There was a service plaza on I-30 in TX with a Howard Johnson's Restaurant and Hotel.

I'm pretty sure that's the one I was trying to remember. Odd that the only service area to offer this kind of "long-haul" feature would be on a 30-mile toll road that stays within the same metro. I don't really know much about the DFW Turnpike–was it even a closed-ticket system?

Yes, as a turnpike it was a closed ticket system. The service plaza offered gas, restaurant, hotel and a "free" turnaround (for those who found themselves driving in the wrong direction) without needing to pay to exit and to re-enter. 

[Takumi]

The last time I ate at a Hardee's was sometime in the late 1990s either at one that was just off I-95 in the Petersburg area (may have actually been Colonial Heights—near where the toll plaza used to be)

That's actually our second Hardees; it opened in the 1990s. The first one, which has been around my whole life, is about a mile away in the other direction. I haven't been to either one in years; I think the last time I ate at Hardees was when I was in college, at the one in Petersburg. These days the only time I get fast food is either Cook Out (great menu selection and prices) or Sheetz, although at my local car meets I'll go to the McDonalds across the parking lot for the occasional McFlurry. I've never been to a Roy Rogers as I'm rarely in NoVA. Maybe next time.

[NJRoadfan]

The Pizza Hut locations that don't have sit down service are typically called "Pizza Hut Express".

I fondly remember Roy Rogers in Northern NJ back in the 80s, most of their locations were converted from Gino's. The one across from Penn Station in NYC is still kicking along somehow.

I think the only time I ever stopped at a Parkway service area was late at night when everything else was closed. I was driving a friend of mine home and he wanted to stop at the Cheesequake service area. Its amazing how less picky people are when they are trashed. I'd say he wasn't the only drunk person there that night!

Service areas did become a popular place after Sandy hit. They are all equipped with generators and were one of the few places able to pump gas.