I-99 Update (Williamsport PA to Corning NY)

[machias]

The truth of the matter is I was happy to see ANY interchange numbers appear on the US 15 freeway. NYSDOT had this weird belief that only interstates needed interchange numbers and usually didn't number the interchanges on non-Interstate routes (at least outside of the five boroughs and Long Island). Honestly, that makes absolutely no sense as seen with Interstate 290 and NY Route 33 in Buffalo - I-290 has 7 exits that are numbered yet NY 33 has 15 exits that are unnumbered. There's no reason for the interchanges on NY 33 to not be numbered aside from the fact that NYSDOT didn't deem it worthy due to the lack of interstate status. So on the count, I was quite pleased to see that US 15's exits are numbered and I'm even happier that they're numbered by distance like freeways in 44 other states in the United States.

There is nothing special nor unique about New York State. Interchange density, the number of lane miles, all of these conditions can be found in other states in the US. There's no reason that New York can't match the standard found elsewhere in the country. I really think that an interchange renumbering should be implemented slowly over the natural rotation of sign panel replacement, using the same approach that California used, put new numbers up when you can when the sign is replaced. Don't lay out a bunch of cash for some grand renumbering scheme, introduce the new numbers as the panels are replaced. The new exit number goes on the tab and the old number goes below the main panel, just as they did on US 15. It's not difficult. Replace panels based on interchange (like they did up until about 10 years ago) instead of just spot replacing panels here and there. People will adjust and budget hits will be kept to a minimum.

[Alps]

Personally I'd rather any spare $$$ go into doing something that will actually help, like adding some new lanes, reconfiguring underpowered interchanges, or better yet refund it to the tax payer.

The taxpayer had better not see a DIME of roads money until all of our bridges are replaced.

[Roadmaestro95]

There is nothing special nor unique about New York State. Interchange density, the number of lane miles, all of these conditions can be found in other states in the US. There's no reason that New York can't match the standard found elsewhere in the country. I really think that an interchange renumbering should be implemented slowly over the natural rotation of sign panel replacement, using the same approach that California used, put new numbers up when you can when the sign is replaced. Don't lay out a bunch of cash for some grand renumbering scheme, introduce the new numbers as the panels are replaced. The new exit number goes on the tab and the old number goes below the main panel, just as they did on US 15. It's not difficult. Replace panels based on interchange (like they did up until about 10 years ago) instead of just spot replacing panels here and there. People will adjust and budget hits will be kept to a minimum.

I don't think a state that has their roadways numbered already can do what California did...even though LA did some type of "numbering" back in the day. If a renumbering is going to take place, like I-395 in CT this year, then do it all at once so the confusion is much less than alternating exit numbering by sign replacement. Because the way NYSDOT does it, not all the signs get replaced at the "same" time. There are still some button copy still left on the LIE after a complete sign replacement along the main artery of NY.

[PHLBOS]

Never mind the fact that most everyone has some kind of GPS device in their car or on their cell phone. Travelers needing to calculate distance between exits themselves is about as useful as all those emergency call boxes they've done away with because everyone has a cell phone now.

Granted this thread has already veered way off-topic; I have to chime in regarding the above-comment.

1.  Not everybody driving has nor uses GPS devices whether the device is separate or on a cell/smart phone; the percentages may not be as high as one thinks.  I happen to be one of those individuals.  I also know plenty of people, not necessarily roadgeeks, that find mile-marker based interchange-numbering helps them better remember how far it is between exits.

2.  While you may think that call boxes along the highway are now rendered obsolete/useless but tell that to the lone traveler whose cell phone battery has just died or is not in a good signal area.  IIRC, those old-school SEND HELP signs one sees during a Road Meet (see below-pic) are still being made; granted only in certain areas (where cell service is either weak or non-existant) on the backs of certain road maps.



Over-reliance on high-tech devices to get around is not necessarily a good thing.

[NE2]

IIRC, those old-school SEND HELP signs one sees during a Road Meet (see below-pic) are still being made; granted only in certain areas (where cell service is either weak or non-existant) on the backs of certain road maps.

http://www.kansashighwaypatrol.org/press/brochures/sendhelp.pdf

Keep a "SEND HELP"  sign in your glove compartment. In case of emergency, it could become your most valuable possession.

[Brandon]

The poster child of why sequential numbers don't tell you anything unless you already have the exits memorized.

You will have this problem even with mileage based exit numbering. It's often not mentioned, but unless you happen to know that after exit 157 comes 134 you're kind of in the same boat.

What.  The.  Fuck?   

Most states have mileage signs after interchanges with the distance to the next exit listed.  With a distance-based system, one merely has to add to or subtract from the current exit number to get the next exit number.



Of course, then you have some places that actually place the bgs of the next ex it up even if it is a long distance away:

[Alps]

Of course, then you have some places that actually place the bgs of the next ex it up even if it is a long distance away:

So if the next exit is 25 miles away, and the number only decreases by 22 miles, does that mean we should all go back to sequential numbering?

[NE2]

Math failure. 25 isn't even the distance to downtown Raygun Hometown.

[machias]

There is nothing special nor unique about New York State. Interchange density, the number of lane miles, all of these conditions can be found in other states in the US. There's no reason that New York can't match the standard found elsewhere in the country. I really think that an interchange renumbering should be implemented slowly over the natural rotation of sign panel replacement, using the same approach that California used, put new numbers up when you can when the sign is replaced. Don't lay out a bunch of cash for some grand renumbering scheme, introduce the new numbers as the panels are replaced. The new exit number goes on the tab and the old number goes below the main panel, just as they did on US 15. It's not difficult. Replace panels based on interchange (like they did up until about 10 years ago) instead of just spot replacing panels here and there. People will adjust and budget hits will be kept to a minimum.

I don't think a state that has their roadways numbered already can do what California did...even though LA did some type of "numbering" back in the day. If a renumbering is going to take place, like I-395 in CT this year, then do it all at once so the confusion is much less than alternating exit numbering by sign replacement. Because the way NYSDOT does it, not all the signs get replaced at the "same" time. There are still some button copy still left on the LIE after a complete sign replacement along the main artery of NY.

I think this is why NYSDOT was considering a new type of exit tab at one time:  "NEW 115 | EXIT 34" or something of that nature. I don't know if that idea is still being kicked around or not. Personally, I would go with "OLD 34 | EXIT 115" on the tab, though for some unknown reason the use of "OLD" makes me cringe. I really like that NYSDOT uses "Formerly" on the panels under the main panel. MassHighway did the same thing when they changed the exit numbers on 128.

[vdeane]

You will have this problem even with mileage based exit numbering.

Mileage based numbering tells you how far you have to get to your exit from the current point (last I checked, roads had regular mileposts installed).  While it doesn't tell you how many exits there are between now and your exit, as I mentioned, sequential doesn't either (some roads also have gaps for no reason... just look at NY 17/I-86 for a road whose exit numbers can only be described as "clusterfuck").  And honestly, nobody other than roadgeeks cares how many exits there are between their car and their destination.  As a roadgeek who likes to know both, I find it far easier to remember the exits between two points than I do to memorize the mileposts for the exits of a road.

And no, exit distances are NOT consistent.  Just look at the Massachusetts Turnpike.  Same rural character across the entire route, yet the exits start relatively close together, you've got that 30 mile gap between exits 2 and 3, exits right on top of each other, exits a bit farther apart, close together again, and only then do you hit Boston.  Thruway distances vary wildly too, as do the exits on NY 17 and I-88.  I-81 has a couple of 12 mile gaps on a road where 4-6 miles is the norm.  I-390 has a random cluster between Geneseo and Avon.

No, not everyone has GPS activated on their phones, especially those of us who haven't jumped on the iPhone/Android bandwagon.

See the aforementioned I-86/NY 17 for an example of an interstates whose exit numbers have a bunch of weird sequential anomalies.  The aforementioned 21-21B-21A-22 sequence was also on an interstate.  In fact, most of the anomalies are on interstates because many states, not just NY, refuse to number exits on non-interstates.

In the case where exit numbers are just off by 1 they're usually left alone.  States that converted from sequential to mile-based numbers have a ton of psudo-sequential segments (for example, I-676 in NJ, or I-295 in Portland, ME).

IIRC, those old-school SEND HELP signs one sees during a Road Meet (see below-pic) are still being made; granted only in certain areas (where cell service is either weak or non-existant) on the backs of certain road maps.

http://www.kansashighwaypatrol.org/press/brochures/sendhelp.pdf

Keep a "SEND HELP"  sign in your glove compartment. In case of emergency, it could become your most valuable possession.

Will have to print that out for roadmeets, since the I-87 ones seem to be gone.

Most states have mileage signs after interchanges with the distance to the next exit listed.  With a distance-based system, one merely has to add to or subtract from the current exit number to get the next exit number.

Ironically, the sequential states don't have them.

I think this is why NYSDOT was considering a new type of exit tab at one time:  "NEW 115 | EXIT 34" or something of that nature. I don't know if that idea is still being kicked around or not. Personally, I would go with "OLD 34 | EXIT 115" on the tab, though for some unknown reason the use of "OLD" makes me cringe. I really like that NYSDOT uses "Formerly" on the panels under the main panel. MassHighway did the same thing when they changed the exit numbers on 128.

They seem to have adopted large panels below the sign.  Might be one reason why NYSDOT feels it would be too expensive.  PA's were barely-there; NYSDOT's are larger than gore signs.  For the tab, "Exit 115 | Formerly 34" would seem to keep with the usual verbiage.

[rickmastfan67]

PA's were barely-there

Yet I know of several that are still up, even after 10 years of being posted. lol.

[vdeane]

Barely-there as in "barely-there bikini", not as in "quickly gone".

[SidS1045]

Ironically, the sequential states don't have them.

Massachusetts has lots of them, particularly on the Turnpike, after every interchange.

[NJRoadfan]

In the case where exit numbers are just off by 1 they're usually left alone.  States that converted from sequential to mile-based numbers have a ton of psudo-sequential segments (for example, I-676 in NJ, or I-295 in Portland, ME).

I-676 was due to the re-routing of I-76 onto the Betsy Ross Bridge. If you count the mileage from I-295/NJ-42, I-676's exits line up. They "added" the missing exits by creatively numbering the ramps at its southern terminus with I-76.

[PHLBOS]

I-676 was due to the re-routing of I-76 onto the Betsy Ross Bridge. If you count the mileage from I-295/NJ-42, I-676's exits line up. They "added" the missing exits by creatively numbering the ramps at its southern terminus with I-76.

I think you meant to say "...the re-routing of I-76 onto the Walt Whitman Bridge".

[DeaconG]

I-676 was due to the re-routing of I-76 onto the Betsy Ross Bridge. If you count the mileage from I-295/NJ-42, I-676's exits line up. They "added" the missing exits by creatively numbering the ramps at its southern terminus with I-76.

I think you meant to say "...the re-routing of I-76 onto the Walt Whitman Bridge".

Which when I was a little boy was I-676 and the Ben Franklin got I-76.

[Henry]

Jeeze everyone is making a big deal out of the way exit-numbering is...be respectful on what people are "sided" on. An opinion is one's right to an idea they prefer and/or support, please respect that when you say your side on whatever.

ANYWAY back onto I-99 and how the updates with whatever is going on with it...
A question though...how will exit numbering (assuming it is mileage-based) go if I-86/I-99 come together and extend northward. For instance, will I-86 get renumbered (if I-99 goes to I-390) into mileage-based or be kept as is? I feel like if (and that's a huge IF) I-99 would go northward, the concurrency with I-86 would seem weird if I-86 remains sequential and all of I-99 is mileage.

I imagine I-86 will go mileage-based, as it hasn't reached I-87 as of yet. And even if I-99 doesn't make it up I-390 (which it should), I still don't think they should leave I-86 as is.

[vdeane]

In the case where exit numbers are just off by 1 they're usually left alone.  States that converted from sequential to mile-based numbers have a ton of psudo-sequential segments (for example, I-676 in NJ, or I-295 in Portland, ME).

I-676 was due to the re-routing of I-76 onto the Betsy Ross Bridge. If you count the mileage from I-295/NJ-42, I-676's exits line up. They "added" the missing exits by creatively numbering the ramps at its southern terminus with I-76.

That's what I once said, but got shot down in that thread, probably because the exit numbers from I-295 technically go 1-2-1-3-4-5A-5B.  Also, exit 2 is for I-676 when heading northbound (which is REALLY odd, because it's for I-76 southbound, and it can't be I-76's number for the junction either, as I-76 uses 354 there).

Jeeze everyone is making a big deal out of the way exit-numbering is...be respectful on what people are "sided" on. An opinion is one's right to an idea they prefer and/or support, please respect that when you say your side on whatever.

ANYWAY back onto I-99 and how the updates with whatever is going on with it...
A question though...how will exit numbering (assuming it is mileage-based) go if I-86/I-99 come together and extend northward. For instance, will I-86 get renumbered (if I-99 goes to I-390) into mileage-based or be kept as is? I feel like if (and that's a huge IF) I-99 would go northward, the concurrency with I-86 would seem weird if I-86 remains sequential and all of I-99 is mileage.

I imagine I-86 will go mileage-based, as it hasn't reached I-87 as of yet. And even if I-99 doesn't make it up I-390 (which it should), I still don't think they should leave I-86 as is.

NY 17 already has exit numbers to I-87, and the last section of at-grades has hidden exit numbers for the major intersections.  I don't see I-86 changing unless NY itself changes, even though it has a few really odd numbering sequences (87-87A-89 comes to mind).

[PHLBOS]

That's what I once said, but got shot down in that thread, probably because the exit numbers from I-295 technically go 1-2-1-3-4-5A-5B.  Also, exit 2 is for I-676 when heading northbound (which is REALLY odd, because it's for I-76 southbound, and it can't be I-76's number for the junction either, as I-76 uses 354 there).

It's worth noting that the Exit 354 tabs along I-76 Eastbound (along & at the base of the Walt Whitman Bridge and was originally signed as Exit 48) have only been around since the late 90s at the earliest.  The I-76 northbound (signed as Westbound) Exit 2 for I-676 North is more correct than 354 from I-76 southbound (signed as Eastbound).

The Exit 354 (old 48) tabs were a PennDOT/DRPA joint screw-up IMHO; PennDOT for giving direction for such, DRPA for complying.

I-676 Southbound's Exit 2 for I-76 West being the same as Exit 2 from I-76 Westbound for I-676 North is purely coincidental.  Much like the Woburn, MA I-93/95 interchange both being Exit 37.

Technically, since I-76 in NJ is signed East-West (vs. North-South); the current exit numbering is actually backwards compared to other East-West routes (I-90 portion of the NYS Thruway exception notwithstanding). 

NJDOT's reasoning for not switching the order likely stems from (guess on my part) the street name for the entire NJ 42/I-76/676 freeway corridor being the North-South Freeway.  Encountering exit number changes where the route number changes along a single corridor is one thing; but changing from increasing increments to decreasing to increasing again (for 42 N/76 W/676 N) for such a short distance (I-76 in NJ is just barely 2 miles) could be a bit daunting for the average motorist.  It's worth noting that exit numbers along the NJ 42 part of the N-S Freeway (the longest portion) were added decades later than the ones along I-76/676.

[mrsman]

Of course, then you have some places that actually place the bgs of the next ex it up even if it is a long distance away:

So if the next exit is 25 miles away, and the number only decreases by 22 miles, does that mean we should all go back to sequential numbering?

This photo is a great example of an exit that can use "Next Exit 22 miles" in a way similar to what is done on the NJ Turnpike.  We don't need to know the name of the exit at this point, but it is good to know that we have 22 miles before the next exit in case we need to use the restroom or get gas.  It's one innovation from NJTP that I wish were incorporated more widely, since it is useful information.

[hotdogPi]

The Mass Pike does it too.

[vdeane]

The Thruway has "next exit XX" panels, as does the entire state of Vermont.

[JawnwoodS96]

Pennsylvania seems to do this too (Except for on the turnpike, where it's written a little differently).

I don't see the need of knowing the information of the exit when it is still 25 miles away.

[Roadmaestro95]

Pennsylvania seems to do this too (Except for on the turnpike, where it's written a little differently).

I don't see the need of knowing the information of the exit when it is still 25 miles away.

Ask Illinois that question, they can't math right supposedly.

[shadyjay]

The Thruway has "next exit XX" panels, as does the entire state of Vermont.

And the original Connecticut Turnpike signage had this as well, at least in Branford-Guilford.  I chuckled a bit when I saw "NEXT EXIT 2 MILES".  Seeing a distance like that now would make me laugh out loud!