CVS will phase out tobacco sales by 1 Oct 2014

[Duke87]

When we went to Dieu de Ciel in Montreal, one of the many excellent little producers of complicated beers in Quebec, we couldn't buy beer to take at the brewpub.  They sent us around the corner to a beer store.

That's probably because selling it for offsite consumption and selling it for onsite consumption require two different licenses and a single establishment is not allowed to have both. This, as far as I'm aware, is the law in most of the US and Canada. Pennsylvania (oddly) is the only exception I know of.

The other problem with carrying a drink purchased at a bar or restaurant away from the place is that in a lot of places it is illegal to have an open container of alcohol in public. In New York City it's illegal and it IS enforced, although if you keep a paper bag or some other sheath around your drink so it can't be determined with certainty at a glance whether it's alcohol, you will probably be left alone so long as you don't do anything stupid. In Toronto it's illegal but it isn't enforced. In Montreal it's legal so long as you also have food. Savannah, GA is interesting: open plastic containers are allowed, but open glass containers are not (guess they're concerned about people throwing glass bottles).

[vdeane]

Quite frankly, it is not the liquor I object to having in a general store.  It is the liquor addict.  Much prefer states that, whether under government control or private, keep liquor in its own store.

Pretty sure liquor addicts have to go to grocery stores regardless of where liquor is sold.  Eating out every day is expensive.

[realjd]

This talk of weird regulations brings to mind the new rum microdistillery in KW. Under FL law, they can only sell 2 bottles per person per year directly. Since they don't have any deals with distributors yet, that's the absolute limit. Breweries and wineries don't have that restriction.

Because homeless people and their 40's are clearly a threat to homeland security, selling beer in quantities over a quart and less than a gallon is illegal in FL. So growlers in FL aren't the industry standard half gallon. They're mostly quart growlers with the occasional gallon growler. Those sizes are too small and too large.

[Duke87]

Quite frankly, it is not the liquor I object to having in a general store.  It is the liquor addict.  Much prefer states that, whether under government control or private, keep liquor in its own store.

Pretty sure liquor addicts have to go to grocery stores regardless of where liquor is sold.  Eating out every day is expensive.

But they're not going there to get their fix, which presumably means they might be less of a nuisance.

[corco]

Quite frankly, it is not the liquor I object to having in a general store.  It is the liquor addict.  Much prefer states that, whether under government control or private, keep liquor in its own store.

Pretty sure liquor addicts have to go to grocery stores regardless of where liquor is sold.  Eating out every day is expensive.

But they're not going there to get their fix, which presumably means they might be less of a nuisance.

How exactly does that work? Even if you disagree with that theory, what is the reasoning behind it? Are there large numbers of people going into grocery stores visibly drunk with the sole objective of buying more booze and not any food? I've never seen this before, and I've been to a lot of grocery stores, and even lived in a state with liquor sales in grocery stores (Arizona) and plenty with beer sales in grocery stores (Illinois, Idaho, Washington (lived there before full liquor sales were privatized), Montana)- is this something that occurs in other places and I'm just unaware? If these people are addicts and they're always drunk, are they sober when they go to grocery stores in regulated states? If so, why?

If anything, and maybe this is logical wankery:
1) Liquor addicts are often drunk
2) Because of this liquor addicts don't have jobs and don't have much money, making it difficult to build a solid stockpile of liquor
3) Somebody truly addicted to liquor will make purchasing liquor their first priority

Because of 1) and 2), it would follow that
4) Liquor addicts buy booze when they're out of booze and are sobering, seeking a fix

Because of 3) and 4) it would follow that:
5) If you can't buy booze in the grocery store, they are likely to be at the grocery store when they don't need to buy booze, since booze would be a higher priority for them than food, which means they are probably drunk while shopping

Which would mean that
6) Liquor addicts at grocery stores in regulated states are drunk- they don't need to buy booze because they are drunk, so they can go grocery shopping

and the corollary
7) Liquor addicts in deregulated states are more likely to be sober at the grocery store, as they are there to buy booze which means they are out of booze and probably sober.

[Brandon]

Would grocery stores really "bombard" people with booze down every aisle? They don't do that with soda...

No, they don't.  But they do have endcaps full of beer that's on sale.  Sometimes they'll be full of champagne, such as just prior to New Year's.

[Brandon]

This talk of weird regulations brings to mind the new rum microdistillery in KW. Under FL law, they can only sell 2 bottles per person per year directly. Since they don't have any deals with distributors yet, that's the absolute limit. Breweries and wineries don't have that restriction.

Because homeless people and their 40's are clearly a threat to homeland security, selling beer in quantities over a quart and less than a gallon is illegal in FL. So growlers in FL aren't the industry standard half gallon. They're mostly quart growlers with the occasional gallon growler. Those sizes are too small and too large.

So you can't buy a cold 40 in Florida?

Pennsylvania may have the most convoluted system of beer/wine/liquor distribution, but for madness at the local level, look no further than Illinois.

In Illinois, as I've stated before, they vary by municipality and county, usually by municipality.  There is no state control of distribution or sales.

Here's a few to give you a bit of the variety that is Illinois in regards to liquor laws:
Naperville: http://www.naperville.il.us/emplibrary/Boards_and_Commissions/LiquorCommRules.pdf

Sale and distribution of all alcoholic beverages shall cease at 9:30 P.M., or
as specified in the liquor license in any particular instance, and
consumption to cease 30 minutes thereafter.

Wheaton: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2014-02-07/news/ct-convenience-liquor-wheaton-tl-0213-20140205_1_convenience-stores-liquor-licenses-alcohol-sales

The Council voted in December to roll back alcohol sales start times, now allowing restaurants and grocery stores to start selling at 7 a.m. on all days. Previous start times ranged from 9 a.m. to noon.

Currently, liquor licenses are available to grocery stores and, also, drug stores over 10,000 square feet such as Walgreens and CVS.

Prior to 1985, Wheaton was a "dry" municipality.

Joliet: http://library.municode.com/index.aspx?clientId=11058

Sec. 4-30. Hours of operation.permanent link to this piece of content

(a)
It shall be unlawful to remain open for business or to admit the public to any licensed premises, or to sell or offer for sale at retail or offer to give away on any licensed premises any alcoholic liquor in the city, except during the following hours:
(1)
Sundays, 10:00 a.m. until 12:00 midnight, except that the holder of a Class H permit may remain open until 2:00 a.m. Monday morning.
(2)
Mondays through Thursdays, 6:00 a.m. until 1:00 a.m. the following day, except the holder of a Class H permit may remain open until 2:00 a.m.
(3)
Fridays and Saturdays, 6:00 a.m. until 2:00 a.m. the following day except the holder of a Class H permit may remain open until 3:00 a.m.
(4)
Christmas Eve closing time shall be 12:00 midnight and on New Year's Eve closing time shall be 3:00 a.m. on January 1.
(5)
No sale of alcoholic liquor is permitted on any premises holding a Class C license after 12:00 a.m. (midnight) on any day, prior to 6:00 a.m., Monday through Saturday, or prior to 10:00 a.m. on Sunday.
(6)
No sale of alcoholic liquor is permitted on any premises holding a Class J or a Class K license prior to 10:00 a.m. or after 10:00 p.m. on any day.

Cicero: http://library.municode.com/index.aspx?clientId=10551

Sec. 10-102. Time limits; prohibited at polling places and places of registration.permanent link to this piece of content

(a)
No alcoholic liquor, as defined in section 10-1, shall be sold, given away, offered for sale, served or dispensed on or about any premises or place of business where alcoholic liquor is sold, handled or kept for sale between the hours of 2:00 a.m. and 8:00 a.m. on Mondays through Saturdays of each week, and the premises must be free of all patrons no later than 2:15 a.m.
(b)
No alcoholic liquor, as defined in section 10-1, shall be sold, given away, offered for sale, served or dispensed in, on upon or about any premises or place of business where alcoholic liquor is sold, handled or kept for sale between the hours of 3:00 a.m. and 11:00 a.m., on Sunday of each week, and the premises must be free of all patrons by 3:15 a.m. on Sunday of each week.
(c)
No person shall bring, take, order or send into or attempt to bring, take or send into any polling place or place of registration any alcoholic liquor as defined in section 10-1
(d)
In addition to any other penalty imposed for violations of this chapter, a minimum fine of $250.00 and a maximum fine of $750.00 shall be imposed for violations of this section.

Quite a variety and it doesn't yet cover everything that's out there.

[jeffandnicole]

NJ can be like Illinois in those respects: There are some base laws that the entire state must adhere to, but municipalities can make up many of their own rules. Serving times vary from none (dry municipalities, including some that don't even allow byobs) up to others that permit serving alcohol 24 hours a day. While a common closing time is 2am, many towns are earlier or later. A town near me is 2am, but some bars have special licenses that allow them to serve till 3am.  For takeout, some towns allow it in supermarkets, in others the store must be a standalone store and not part of a strip of stores.

Delaware has a statewide 1am serving limit; and last call must be made at 12:45. Personally, that's entirely too early.

[Laura]

I think big tobacco is already in position to jump on the marijuana $$ train.  Seems like I saw something about the research and development they are doing.  Could be wrong.
   

As soon as they can figure out how to get people addicted </snark>

Marijuana is not nearly as addictive as nicotine. People won't get as addicted to it unless the companies cheat and put something else in it.

This is my biggest concern about legalization, that big tobacco companies are going to take control of the industry and add toxic chemicals to it in order to get people addicted.


iPhone

[US71]

I think big tobacco is already in position to jump on the marijuana $$ train.  Seems like I saw something about the research and development they are doing.  Could be wrong.
   

As soon as they can figure out how to get people addicted </snark>

Marijuana is not nearly as addictive as nicotine. People won't get as addicted to it unless the companies cheat and put something else in it.

This is my biggest concern about legalization, that big tobacco companies are going to take control of the industry and add toxic chemicals to it in order to get people addicted.

That was my point/concern, as well.

[hbelkins]

I pause the discussion of marijuana legalization in this thread to lament the disappearance of the common use of a very appropriate and once-often-used word to describe those who are frequent dope smokers: habituation.

[US71]

I pause the discussion of marijuana legalization in this thread to lament the disappearance of the common use of a very appropriate and once-often-used word to describe those who are frequent dope smokers: habituation.

Same can be said for alcohol or just about anything else. Why target just marijuana?

BTW: your link is messed up.

[hbelkins]

Nicotine and alcohol are addicting. Marijuana is said not to be addicting, but it's definitely habit-forming.

EDIT: fixed the link. I was wanting to put the link in quotation marks such as one would with an "a href=..." link in HTML.

[US71]

Nicotine and alcohol are addicting. Marijuana is said not to be addicting, but it's definitely habit-forming.

SO?

[vdeane]

The latest episode of Dan Carlin's Common Sense discussed this issue in detail.  I highly recommend it.

It's also worth noting that many non-drug-related behaviors can form a natural high and potentially be habit-forming - BDSM comes to mind.

[jbnv]

If your state's alcohol laws are too convoluted for your liking, you're welcome to come to Louisiana and buy alcohol. Without getting out of your vehicle.

[US71]

If your state's alcohol laws are too convoluted for your liking, you're welcome to come to Louisiana and buy alcohol. Without getting out of your vehicle.

I've never stopped at one, but have been tempted, just to look around. Driving with Daiquiris is not my cup of tea, though.

[roadman65]

Louisiana is allowed to sell alcohol in plain sight.  Go into Walmart and its in the main store instead of outside via a separate entrance like in most states.  Sams too in Houma looks so odd with its liquor in the store itself as in Orlando it is outside the main store.

In general I have been meaning to comment on this one, but been too busy to stop by lately.  It seems its stirring up quite a topic as at over 90 posts already in the short time the announcement was made, but I think this whole thing is ridiculous.  I am not a smoker any more (since 91), but if someone wants to smoke and damage themselves I say let them.  I can see banning smoking indoors and stuff, but this is too much.  Look at how much revenue they make doing it.  There shareholders are going to see less dividends for sure.

I know that experts think that Walgreens is soon to follow suit and with Northwest Airlines banning smoking on all their flights back in 1990 that eventually led to the FAA banning it complexly on all fights, it will happen to more stores.

[bugo]

I pause the discussion of marijuana legalization in this thread to lament the disappearance of the common use of a very appropriate and once-often-used word to describe those who are frequent dope smokers: habituation.

Get with the times, man.  "Dope" refers to either meth or heroin, not weed.  Not since a long time ago.

[hbelkins]

Get with the times, man.  "Dope" refers to either meth or heroin, not weed.  Not since a long time ago.

Not around here.

[US71]

Get with the times, man.  "Dope" refers to either meth or heroin, not weed.  Not since a long time ago.

Not around here.

Must be a regional thing.

I'm not sure what the fuss is. I don't like cigs, but it's your choice (just don't blow smoke at me becasue it irritates my allergies).  I drink  a glass of wine on occasion or a beer, but if people want to get smashed, that's their thing. Why should smoking marijuana be any different? Don't like the stuff? Don't touch it.  easy-peasy

[bugo]

Get with the times, man.  "Dope" refers to either meth or heroin, not weed.  Not since a long time ago.

Not around here.

You hang around recreational drug users?

[hbelkins]

Get with the times, man.  "Dope" refers to either meth or heroin, not weed.  Not since a long time ago.

Not around here.

You hang around recreational drug users?

No, but I know the vernacular. In my part of Kentucky, "dope" is marijuana and "pop" is soda or soft drinks. Meth is meth and heroin may be "smack."

[US71]

Get with the times, man.  "Dope" refers to either meth or heroin, not weed.  Not since a long time ago.

Not around here.

You hang around recreational drug users?

No, but I know the vernacular. In my part of Kentucky, "dope" is marijuana and "pop" is soda or soft drinks. Meth is meth and heroin may be "smack."

Do you say "Yankees" or "Northerners"?  Do you say "Southerner" or "Redneck"? Do you say po-TAY-to or po-TAH-to?

[Duke87]

Nicotine and alcohol are addicting. Marijuana is said not to be addicting, but it's definitely habit-forming.

People can become addicted to anything, it's not a phenomenon limited to drugs. I'm sure some of us are addicted to clinching roads. But there is a difference between mental addiction (where the desire is all in your head) and chemical addiction (where your body develops a physical need for the substance and thus it's difficult to quit even if you really want to). THC, like ethyl alcohol, has no chemical addiction associated with it: you can drink or smoke weed as frequently or infrequently as you like, and if you decide to stop you can stop with no ill effects. Nicotine, meanwhile, causes a very strong chemical addiction. If you smoke tobacco, you have to smoke it regularly or you will start suffering from withdrawal symptoms. Try and take a day off from smoking and you'll get sick.

Point being, it's very difficult to use tobacco and not be addicted to it, since the very nature of it causes addiction. However, the vast majority of people who drink alcohol or smoke marijuana are not addicted, since you only become an addict if you abuse it to the point where it's a mental crutch for you.