What do you Count/Not Count When Clinching?

[1995hoo]

The issue of a road being superseded by another road is one for which I don't necessarily think there's always an easy answer because sometimes the superseding road bears pretty much no resemblance at all to what it replaced. An example that readily comes to mind for me is a 5.4-mile segment of VA-286, the Fairfax County Parkway, between VA-123 and Pohick Road (Google Maps link here). That segment used to be Pohick Road, a rural-feeling two-lane road, and it ended at the traffic light seen on that map link at the point where Robert Carter Road sits opposite the ramps to and from the Parkway. (You can see from the map that Pohick Road was truncated when the Parkway was built.) My primary memories of that road prior to the Fairfax County Parkway come from the behind-the-wheel driver's ed class I took in 10th grade because we used it fairly frequently. If I had not driven on it since then (not the case, I use the Parkway fairly frequently), I would not consider myself to have travelled on that segment of the Parkway because it is utterly different from old Pohick Road in just about every way. It's a major dual-carriageway suburban arterial with a 50-mph speed limit. I don't remember what the speed limit was on old Pohick Road, but it didn't feel remotely like driving on a suburban arterial. The parts of the Parkway east and west of that segment didn't exist at all back then and were new construction beginning in the 1980s.

Another example that comes to mind for me is "Interstate 14" between I-35 and Copperas Cove in Texas. I was born at Fort Hood. I have no idea what the road looked like back then, but given that my parents said Copperas Cove had a fair number of unpaved roads, I'd guess the road didn't remotely resemble an Interstate Highway, so I don't consider myself to have ever been on I-14 even though my Travel Mapping shows portions of it.

On the other hand, there are roads that get substantially reconstructed that I wouldn't have any problem counting even if I hadn't been on the new version. I-66 between the Beltway and Haymarket, Virginia, is one example of that. It used to be two lanes on each side; now it's generally five lanes per side (three general-purpose and two HO/T). Parts of it are unrecognizable from the 1970s, other parts of it don't look too different aside from the wider road. That's one I'd count.

For people who like bright-line rules, that sort of answer would be utterly unsatisfying. But it works for me, and I think sometimes bright-line rules just don't work—or, put differently, almost every rule has an exception somewhere.

[triplemultiplex]

My clinching "rules":
I must be personally driving.  I don't count being a passenger.
Either direction, doesn't matter.
Night or day is irrelevant.
Exiting at an interchange and getting back on same interchange counts as clinched.  No need to drive every bit of mainline between ramp gores.  The same can be said for a pit stop where you go in one driveway for a business and out another driveway.
Relocation of a route I've clinched moves it back into unclinched for me.  So if a bypass is constructed or some other new terrain alignment is built, I would have to go back to get that clinch.
In the event of a new route being signed over a previously clinched route, I do not consider that clinched. Because I didn't drive it when it was I-whatever.

So I clinched US 41 in my state a long time ago.  But I-41 came about after I had moved from Milwaukee and as a result, I've not yet traveled between about Germantown and Fond du Lac since the rebranding.  So I do not consider I-41 clinched until I redrive that remaining section.

The 680 to 880 conversion was mentioned recently in the thread.  I made it a point to drive that route again after the change.  (And also to see how they fixed up the remaining 680 after that big flood.)

[Sub-Urbanite]

Since we're playing, my clinching rules:

1. I must have traveled the route after age 15
2a. Mode of travel doesn't matter. Driving, walking, bicycling, center median transit line, all counts.
2b. Adjacent, parallel routes don't count. For example, I didn't clinch any of US 2 in Montana when I rode the Empire Builder alongside it.
2c. Direction, time of day, doesn't matter.
3a. What matters is where the asphalt / concrete is, not what's on it. Adding a bridge, changing a route number, duplexing it, that doesn't change that I traveled on that stretch.
3b. But construction of a new alignment, whether that's a bypass or rebuilding a road parallel to its current location (but, say, below grade) does not count.
4. Exiting and re-entering does not count against clinching. Gotta get gas some time

[Max Rockatansky]

Interesting concepts regarding age and who is driving.  There is certainly a lot of roads back east I would never bother to repeat where my dad was the one driving prior to me getting a license.

[1995hoo]

Interesting concepts regarding age and who is driving.  There is certainly a lot of roads back east I would never bother to repeat where my dad was the one driving prior to me getting a license.

Indeed there are some from family vacations that I fully expect I will never see again; the trip that most readily comes to mind was an August 1986 trip that included far northern Ontario (Cochrane, Moosonee, Moose Factory, and Timmins). It's not an area I really feel any need to visit again, unless perhaps I wanted to make the long slog across the northern branch of the Trans-Canada Highway. So I absolutely count those roads. I was interested in knowing where we were going and what roads we were taking.

Because of things like that, I count family travel going way back because I don't see a good discernable place to draw the line.

[JayhawkCO]

My rules:
1) I've been on the road along whatever length I'm claiming clinched, whether driving, riding, walking, 42 years old, 5 years old, etc.

I have a near photographic memory for certain things, so I 100% remember which roads we took on trips as a kid. My first trip out of the Upper Midwest, I very clearly remember that we went from Hastings, MN to Rio Rico, AZ via I-35, I-40, I-25, I-10, and I-19. We stayed the first night in Lenexa, KS, the second night in Shamrock, TX, and the third night in Deming, NM. I also remember we stopped at the El Reno trading post and I got one of those plastic bow and arrow sets with suction cup arrows and I played with it at the hotel in Shamrock. On the way back, we took mostly the same route, but my dad didn't listen to 6-year-old me and stayed on the Kansas Turnpike as opposed to turning off to stay on I-35 at exit 127 in Emporia. So we also clinched I-335 on that trip.

[Rothman]

If I clinched a route with a previous number that is now either changed or added concurrency, I consider it done once and for all hence US 83 in Rio Grande Valley. Done it in 1997 way before I-2 was even a thought. So I-2 is clinched minus that new bypass at the current west end.

If you track your travels in Travelmapping, this happens automatically.

I appreciate the automatic concurrency feature when mapping out existing routes.  But, it's annoying for new routes (e.g., I-41), since I haven't been on those routes yet.

[formulanone]

Personally, It's about the perspective and experience from the drive. If the view is quite different than before, or the experience is different, it's sort of a "different route". Since the view and experience are part of the enjoyment, the concept of the sight clinch comes into play; most of the tactile experience comes from the vehicle, or maybe a stop by the roadside. The road itself is rarely physically experienced, most of it is visually acquired from most routes.

I'll count it I was a passenger, but still prefer to re-clinch as a driver. Night-time driving doesn't disqualify a clinch; if anything, it gives me a reason to re-drive in daylight. Besides, it's not "half-clinched" on a cloudy day or sunset.

If the number changes, you don't lose the clinch. I just may want a photo of it, though. It sure helps for record keeping and sharing.

I want to usually drive a modified route (more lanes, slight alignment change) but don't lose sleep or my clinch if the end points are the same, especially if that route is quite distant.

A major alignment change is different; if you can't see where the old route was, it's kind of a different route. But that depends on how much of an overall change that is. A half-mile overall difference is probably not going to break my clinch if the end points are effectively the same.

Who would have thought roads had so much gray area?

[TheCatalyst31]

I'm relatively lax about how I count clinches. I'm fine with counting trips as a passenger, and I count childhood travel as long as I remember what route we took. Taking exits and ducking through parking lots is fine, but if I miss a section of a route because of a closure I'll want to go back and clinch it once it reopens. I don't count frontage roads, but we don't have too many Texas-style frontage roads around here anyway.

Clinches still count if the designation changes; I didn't feel the need to re-drive parts of US 41 after it became I-41, for example. I want to re-clinch roads after major alignment changes (e.g. city bypasses), but I take smaller ones on a case-by-case basis. The same is true for freeway upgrades; I don't feel the need to re-clinch a route if the state replaced a few stoplights with exits, but if it feels like a different highway I'll re-drive it. (For example, I re-clinched US 12 through Baraboo after the freeway upgrade a few years ago, which replaced a three-lane road with a freeway on a slightly different alignment.)

[Rothman]

Ducking through parking lots?

[formulanone]

Ducking through parking lots?

If it means you stopped off along the road at some entry point of the parking lot but returned to the same route from a different part of the lot, it doesn't break a clinch.

[Max Rockatansky]

Heh, some state routes (thinking mainly of Utah) are parking lots.

[1995hoo]

Ducking through parking lots?

If it means you stopped off along the road  at some entry point of the parking lot but returned to the same route but from a different part of the lot, it doesn't break a clinch.

Heh, when I read that phrase I thought of the people who bomb through gas stations or other properties located near intersections in order to avoid waiting at a red light.

[Hunty2022]

ROUTES:

1. It doesn't matter where I am in the car, even if it's in the trunk or not even in a car, if I travel the entirety of that route, it's a clinch for me. Nor does the time of day matter.

2. Taking an exit/rest stop and getting back on at that same exit does not ruin a clinch for me. If it were two or more exits however, no clinch.

3. Realignments kill a clinch ONLY if it's over 0.5 miles long. For example, adding another roundabout on VA-231 doesn't kill a clinch, but if there was a bypass built around Gordonsville carrying the number, then it will be unclinched. If the old route becomes a special route however, I will have auto-clinched that special route.

COUNTIES:

1. If I enter a county, even for 3 seconds, I have clinched it. Just like routes, it doesn't matter how or which part of a car I would be in. I clinched Sussex County, DE on foot.

2. The term "clinching a county" doesn't mean I have traveled every mile of every road, it just means that I entered the county at least once.

3. Traveling every mile of every road in a county means I've fully clinched that county. For Virginia, secondary routes don't count towards this. The only county I've fully clinched is Greene County, VA.

[Rothman]

Heh, some state routes (thinking mainly of Utah) are parking lots.

See also VA...

[74/171FAN]

Heh, some state routes (thinking mainly of Utah) are parking lots.

See also VA...

VA 379 is most definitely just a parking lot.

[oscar]

COUNTIES:

1. If I enter a county, even for 3 seconds, I have clinched it. Just like routes, it doesn't matter how or which part of a car I would be in. I clinched Sussex County, DE on foot.

2. The term "clinching a county" doesn't mean I have traveled every mile of every road, it just means that I entered the county at least once.

3. Traveling every mile of every road in a county means I've fully clinched that county. For Virginia, secondary routes don't count towards this. The only county I've fully clinched is Greene County, VA.

I subdivide my "round 2" (post-July 2010) U.S. counties differently.

-- Just crossing the county line is a "minor contact". I don't count that as a real clinch, and there aren't any of those left on my "round 2" map.

-- More substantial contacts are "major contacts". That's subjectively defined, but usually means driving several miles within the county, in one side and out the other.

-- Highest-quality clinch is a visit to at least one of the county seats (some counties have more than one, especially in Arkansas). That doesn't always require a visit to or drive past the county courthouse or other central county government office, just means at least crossing the city limits, unless the seat is an unincorporated community.

There are only two U.S. counties where I've set foot in the county courthouse/equivalent. One is where I now live, which I visited for among other things jury duty, and to cast an in-person absentee ballot.

[dlsterner]

Heh, when I read that phrase I thought of the people who bomb through gas stations or other properties located near intersections in order to avoid waiting at a red light.

I knew someone who referred to that maneuver as being an "Esso Asso".

[1995hoo]

Heh, when I read that phrase I thought of the people who bomb through gas stations or other properties located near intersections in order to avoid waiting at a red light.

I knew someone who referred to that maneuver as being an "Esso Asso".

I have heard that expression as well. Something makes me think I've used it in this forum at some point.

In Virginia, at least, it's illegal to drive across private property to evade a traffic control device. Don't know about elsewhere.

[epzik8]

I never count sight clinches, ever, on any class of highway.

[freebrickproductions]

For me, a clinch involves driving all the way from one end of the route to another, though it doesn't have to be in all one direction, or even over one trip. For longer routes, however, if I get on in both directions at the same grade-separated interchange (such at Exit 69 on I-65 in Alabama), or get off and then back-on at the same grade-separated interchange for longer routes, then I will count it. However, for shorter routes (like AL 152 in Montgomery), then I need to drive through that interchange without getting off as well.

Getting off and back-on at the same intersection, or going both directions from the same intersection, will count towards the clinch no matter the length of route.

For highways that don't have a clearly-marked end (such as US 72 in Memphis, TN), then I'll find the furthest reasonable point where it could end at and go from there. For US 72 in Memphis, I started finishing my clinch of it from this intersection.

[TheCatalyst31]

Ducking through parking lots?

If it means you stopped off along the road at some entry point of the parking lot but returned to the same route from a different part of the lot, it doesn't break a clinch.

Exactly. There are some big parking lots out there, and I know some people are picky about driving every inch of pavement, though I'm not one of them.

[pderocco]

Heh, some state routes (thinking mainly of Utah) are parking lots.

Southern Utah has some of the emptiest parking lots anywhere.

For me, there's a little difference between my idea of a clinch and my idea of when I would want to drive a road again. I didn't feel that the repair of the mega-slide at Mud Creek on CA-1, or the 100-yard realignment away from the beach a little further south, unclinched the road, but I drove the road again anyway, just to see what it looked like.

Also, if a bypass is built on a road I had once driven, for my own purposes I think of it as an "asterisk", meaning I hope to get back there at some point. (It took about six years for me to do the US-101 bypass around Willits CA, and 14 to do the CA-25 bypass around Hollister.) But for TravelMapping, I would mark realignments like that as untraveled.

Here's are some questions. Does anyone feel the need to clinch express lanes separately? Or truck lanes through large interchanges? Is an interchange ever large enough that you would feel like you hadn't clinched it unless you had driven a certain spectacular flyover, or a longish tunnel? I don't consider those to be clinching issues, but I do try to drive them if they're in an area I visit multiple times.

[vdeane]

^ There are some interchanges where I feel like one has to drive the mainline through to clinch, because of their size.  I-84/I-691 is one (these one also has an entire interchange inside!), A-440/A-25 is another (that one for both A-440 and A-25, despite A-440 ending there).  As for clinching flyovers, I've felt the need to do that for the QEW/ON 420 and DE 1/I-95; even though the flyovers aren't officially mainline at those, it feels like they have a better claim to being the mainline than the actual mainline.

[Rothman]

Heh, some state routes (thinking mainly of Utah) are parking lots.

Southern Utah has some of the emptiest parking lots anywhere.

For me, there's a little difference between my idea of a clinch and my idea of when I would want to drive a road again. I didn't feel that the repair of the mega-slide at Mud Creek on CA-1, or the 100-yard realignment away from the beach a little further south, unclinched the road, but I drove the road again anyway, just to see what it looked like.

Also, if a bypass is built on a road I had once driven, for my own purposes I think of it as an "asterisk", meaning I hope to get back there at some point. (It took about six years for me to do the US-101 bypass around Willits CA, and 14 to do the CA-25 bypass around Hollister.) But for TravelMapping, I would mark realignments like that as untraveled.

Here's are some questions. Does anyone feel the need to clinch express lanes separately? Or truck lanes through large interchanges? Is an interchange ever large enough that you would feel like you hadn't clinched it unless you had driven a certain spectacular flyover, or a longish tunnel? I don't consider those to be clinching issues, but I do try to drive them if they're in an area I visit multiple times.

Heh.  That's a fun topic to approach on the TM forum.  You get people who don't want to have to clinch them barking about whether they're on the same "alignments" of the parent Interstate and such.