Road diets / closures you're pretty okay with

[noelbotevera]

This can include cutting lanes, adding stuff to discourage trucks, and of course outright closing roads. Just so we have an idea of the scope of this thread.

Some examples to kick things off:

-Beach Drive in DC works way better as a trail than a road. It used to have increasingly asinine rules on when you could enter and drive the road, because Google kept trying to recommend it as a shortcut (it isn't). During COVID the NPS closed the road to all cars, which is better than trying to tack on more rules.

-Covered bridges closed to traffic. These things are antiques, and the roads they're typically placed on are pretty minor. I'm not going to shed tears if I can't drive across a covered bridge, since they were meant to be walked across.

[hbelkins]

In general, I'm OK with any road diet that eliminates an undivided four-lane road with no turning lanes in favor of a two-lane road with a center turn lane. A good example is the US 127 routing through Harrodsburg.

I'm surprised at the number of people who favor not rebuilding the Francis Scott Key Bridge in Maryland.

[gonealookin]

Carson City, NV did a beautiful job with Carson Street, the main north-south street passing in front of all the state government buildings.  They went from four lanes with a center divider to two lanes with a center turn lane, in particular creating a much more pedestrian-friendly space.

That street used to be mainline US 50 and US 395.  They did the work after Interstate 580 had been extended far enough south to allow through traffic to bypass downtown.  For local traffic, Stewart Street is a four-lane north-south artery not far to the east, and a roundabout was installed at the south end of the downtown to help divert northbound traffic onto Stewart.

[jeffandnicole]

Covered bridges closed to traffic. These things are antiques, and the roads they're typically placed on are pretty minor. I'm not going to shed tears if I can't drive across a covered bridge, since they were meant to be walked across.

Huh?  A 14 foot wide bridge is meant to be walked across?  Wouldn't, say, a 6 feet wide bridge be meant for that?

Also, most covered bridges were built decades ago, when larger roads weren't around.  They were the way to get horses, buggies, and eventually cars across steams and rivers.

[1995hoo]

I think VDOT did a reasonably good job with a portion of Kingstowne Village Parkway in Fairfax County. May 2023 Street View here; pre–"road diet" August 2014 Street View here. VDOT said the traffic counts were too low to warrant a four-lane road through there, and I've found it to have no negative impact whatsoever on traffic flow. People who live at that end of Kingstowne have complained, however, that they cannot legally pass "slowpokes." Those same people were going 50–55 mph or more on that road (speed limit was, and is, 35) prior to the "road diet," so I don't have much sympathy for their complaint—and some of them just pass over the double yellow line anyway if they think someone isn't going sufficiently in excess of the speed limit. I don't like to speed through there for several reasons, including there being an uncontrolled crosswalk just over the hill visible in the distance in those Street View images and there being little kids living in the neighborhoods behind the camera viewpoint who might chase a ball out into the road or the like.

The National Park Service has also narrowed the southern part of the George Washington Memorial Parkway to a single lane for most of the distance between just south of the City of Alexandria and a short distance north of Mount Vernon (there doesn't seem to be current Street View imagery showing the change). It doesn't bother me in the least, but it's another road where some people have complained that it makes it too hard for them to speed (which was no doubt part of the idea).

[PColumbus73]

Ocean Blvd in Myrtle Beach, was 4 lanes but was reduced to 2 lanes with a center turn lane. The section between 8th and 16th Ave N would be a good candidate for widened sidewalks since there is already a heavy pedestrian presence.

[mrsman]

In general, I'm OK with any road diet that eliminates an undivided four-lane road with no turning lanes in favor of a two-lane road with a center turn lane. A good example is the US 127 routing through Harrodsburg.

I'm surprised at the number of people who favor not rebuilding the Francis Scott Key Bridge in Maryland.

I'm also surpirsed to hear it.  Is this related to the issue of who is to pay for it? (US, MD, or a combination) or is there any argument about closing it completely in the same vein as I-81 in Syracuse?  I would say that I-695 is truly necessary as an efficient bypass for the hazmats. 

There are four expressway routings of east-west travel across Baltimore to connect Frederick/DC/Annapolis to Philly/New York.  [While this is normally thought of as north-south, local to Baltimore this is an east-west path mostly.]  The I-95 tunnel is best, but does not allow Hazmats.  The Harbor tunnel at this point is superfluous.  I-695 via the northern suburbs is quite congested and adds significant mileage from I-95 to I-95, so that only leaves the Key Bridge. 

It is true that traffic overall has adjusted to the closure of the Key Bridge, and given how long a repalcement will take, traffic will have to adjust anyway.  But we have to think beyond just the cars and think of the hazmats and large vehicles that would clog up I-695 through Towson.

[TheStranger]

I recall that old US 50 in East Sacramento (Folsom Boulevard) got reduced in the 2010s from four lane with no shoulders, to two-lane with center turning lane.

Even with the inevitable "can't pass anyone" setup that creates, I never found that to be too congested since all the commute traffic has been on the current US 50 (El Dorado Freeway) since the 1970s.

Out here in South San Francisco, a section of Hillside Boulevard went from being four-lane to two-lane with painted median/turning lane, but this coincided with a stoplight replacing a decades-old stop sign near the elementary school I used to go to, so traffic flow has remained pretty good in that area.

[noelbotevera]

Covered bridges closed to traffic. These things are antiques, and the roads they're typically placed on are pretty minor. I'm not going to shed tears if I can't drive across a covered bridge, since they were meant to be walked across.

Huh?  A 14 foot wide bridge is meant to be walked across?  Wouldn't, say, a 6 feet wide bridge be meant for that?

Also, most covered bridges were built decades ago, when larger roads weren't around.  They were the way to get horses, buggies, and eventually cars across steams and rivers.

Most covered bridges were around before cars, except if they were rebuilt later at some point. Unless riding a horse counts as "driving", then I'd hazard that most bridge designers would assume that you'd be walking or riding across a covered bridge.

[DTComposer]

Hillsdale Avenue between Camden Avenue and Almaden Expressway in San Jose was built out in the 1960s as six lanes as part of the Santa Clara County Expressway System (although it already had residences along stretches of it).

A couple of years ago they reduced it from six lanes/center turn lane/parking to four lanes/parking/bike lanes/limited protected left turn lanes. Despite the weeping and gnashing of teeth, the feared gridlock never occurred, and the traffic has calmed (speed limit is 40, previously people regularly went 50+, much less common now).

[vdeane]

In general, I'm OK with any road diet that eliminates an undivided four-lane road with no turning lanes in favor of a two-lane road with a center turn lane. A good example is the US 127 routing through Harrodsburg.

I'm surprised at the number of people who favor not rebuilding the Francis Scott Key Bridge in Maryland.

I'm also surpirsed to hear it.  Is this related to the issue of who is to pay for it? (US, MD, or a combination) or is there any argument about closing it completely in the same vein as I-81 in Syracuse?  I would say that I-695 is truly necessary as an efficient bypass for the hazmats. 

There are four expressway routings of east-west travel across Baltimore to connect Frederick/DC/Annapolis to Philly/New York.  [While this is normally thought of as north-south, local to Baltimore this is an east-west path mostly.]  The I-95 tunnel is best, but does not allow Hazmats.  The Harbor tunnel at this point is superfluous.  I-695 via the northern suburbs is quite congested and adds significant mileage from I-95 to I-95, so that only leaves the Key Bridge. 

It is true that traffic overall has adjusted to the closure of the Key Bridge, and given how long a repalcement will take, traffic will have to adjust anyway.  But we have to think beyond just the cars and think of the hazmats and large vehicles that would clog up I-695 through Towson.

The one roadgeek is recall espousing such a position is Beltway, and his position is essentially tunnel or bust because he views the platforms that protect the piers from ships as "unproven technology" that is a "waste of money" that will "get people killed".  And that it's just fine to force hazmats to use the northern half of I-695 or take surface roads through downtown.

[cl94]

Carson City, NV did a beautiful job with Carson Street, the main north-south street passing in front of all the state government buildings.  They went from four lanes with a center divider to two lanes with a center turn lane, in particular creating a much more pedestrian-friendly space.

That street used to be mainline US 50 and US 395.  They did the work after Interstate 580 had been extended far enough south to allow through traffic to bypass downtown.  For local traffic, Stewart Street is a four-lane north-south artery not far to the east, and a roundabout was installed at the south end of the downtown to help divert northbound traffic onto Stewart.

Carson Street in Carson City and Virginia Street in Reno are excellent examples of this. Both added a decent amount of street parking with the projects as well, which helps local businesses. With thru traffic gone, there isn't the demand for 4+ lanes (up to 6 in some places for Carson Street), and it helps to encourage traffic to use the new bypass.

[Max Rockatansky]

I prefer my road diet consist of unsurfaced and mountainous stuff...

[mgk920]

I generally like seeing four lane undivided surface roads/streets being restriped as two lanes with a shared center left turn lane, it really improves traffic flow, as vehicles are no longer delayed by having to stop for other vehicles waiting to turn left in the left lane.  Doing that also allows for the creation of a striped bicycle lane on each side.

One such restriping was about a year ago on College Ave through downtown Appleton, WI (the city's main street),  It was reduced from four lanes undivided to two lanes with left turn lanes at the intersections and pre-existing parallel parking.  The restriping also left behind room for a striped dedicated bicycle lane on each side.  Ironically, this was 'real life traffic tested' over the years as after snowstorms, snow would be plowed to the center of the street, taking away a lane in each direction, to be loaded up and trucked away later.  So far so good.

Yes, I consider undivided four lane roads to be obsolete.

Mike

[TheStranger]

Hillsdale Avenue between Camden Avenue and Almaden Expressway in San Jose was built out in the 1960s as six lanes as part of the Santa Clara County Expressway System (although it already had residences along stretches of it)

Was the reason Hillsdale was never upgraded to full expressway basically those houses?  Did Santa Clara County originally imagine this stretch to be more similar to Lawrence or Capitol expressways?

Kinda interesting to see the surface-expressway belt route around SJ along Capitol/Hillsdale/San Tomas/Montague in light of the fact that the county did once propose to do full freeway upgrades for the expressways (which got nixed in the 1970s).  Wonder how much the completion of 85 east of Saratoga helped negate the need for Hillsdale as a through route.

[pderocco]

I generally like seeing four lane undivided surface roads/streets being restriped as two lanes with a shared center left turn lane, it really improves traffic flow, as vehicles are no longer delayed by having to stop for other vehicles waiting to turn left in the left lane.  Doing that also allows for the creation of a striped bicycle lane on each side.

In many places, you end up with a road in which thousands of cars pass a particular point in the course of a day, and the new bike lanes see maybe a few dozen bicycles. The end result only looks like a win only if you ignore the fact that it now takes longer for cars to drive the length of the road because there's only room for half as many cars at a time.

[Flint1979]

They just repaved Dixie Highway in Saginaw County between Bridgeport and Birch Run. It was four lanes (two in each direction) with no turning lane. For part of it they took out the left lanes and made a center turning lane with one lane in each direction. At first I thought this is stupid but then as I thought about it I thought it does seem safer now with the turning lane at least. So I guess I'm ok with that.

[epzik8]

Yes, I consider undivided four lane roads to be obsolete.

Especially from a safety standpoint, i.e. head-on collision risk.

[Rothman]

Yes, I consider undivided four lane roads to be obsolete.

Especially from a safety standpoint, i.e. head-on collision risk.

MA says, "Pfft."

[Max Rockatansky]

My actual non-sarcastic answer is currently unfolding on Pacific Southwest:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=35004.0

[noelbotevera]

My actual non-sarcastic answer is currently unfolding on Pacific Southwest:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=35004.0

I'm personally a fan of closing roads through parks, unless they're pretty dang important. I think you could just upgrade the roads surrounding the park to service Wilshire Boulevard traffic, but it sounds like Wilshire Boulevard isn't that important at this point. Could then use the space for trees, a playground, or expanding that lake.

[Max Rockatansky]

My actual non-sarcastic answer is currently unfolding on Pacific Southwest:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=35004.0

I'm personally a fan of closing roads through parks, unless they're pretty dang important. I think you could just upgrade the roads surrounding the park to service Wilshire Boulevard traffic, but it sounds like Wilshire Boulevard isn't that important at this point. Could then use the space for trees, a playground, or expanding that lake.

Yes, that was pretty much my assessment.  If I recall correctly the lake used to occupy the space that Wilshire now occupies.  I don't see it solving all the problems the park has, but I don't see it hurting either.

[DTComposer]

Hillsdale Avenue between Camden Avenue and Almaden Expressway in San Jose was built out in the 1960s as six lanes as part of the Santa Clara County Expressway System (although it already had residences along stretches of it)

Was the reason Hillsdale was never upgraded to full expressway basically those houses?  Did Santa Clara County originally imagine this stretch to be more similar to Lawrence or Capitol expressways?

I can't tell - there are planning maps and aerials from 1959 referring to it as "Hillsdale Expressway" - and Historical Aerials shows the ROW dedicated for 6+ lanes even as the houses are being built. If I were to guess I'd say the eventual plan might have been for 6 lanes and separate frontage roads for the houses.

Also, the planning maps and such are all coming from Santa Clara County, and the city of San Jose was annexing and developing this area so quickly in the '60s - I don't know how much coordination/cooperation there was between them.

Kinda interesting to see the surface-expressway belt route around SJ along Capitol/Hillsdale/San Tomas/Montague in light of the fact that the county did once propose to do full freeway upgrades for the expressways (which got nixed in the 1970s).  Wonder how much the completion of 85 east of Saratoga helped negate the need for Hillsdale as a through route.

It certainly helped, although it was the roads to the south/west of 85 (Saratoga-Sunnyvale, Saratoga-Los Gatos, and Blossom Hill) that really saw relief when 85 was completed.

I will say that Camden Avenue between 17 and Hillsdale was always busy and has remained so.

[Bitmapped]

Covered bridges closed to traffic. These things are antiques, and the roads they're typically placed on are pretty minor. I'm not going to shed tears if I can't drive across a covered bridge, since they were meant to be walked across.

Huh?  A 14 foot wide bridge is meant to be walked across?  Wouldn't, say, a 6 feet wide bridge be meant for that?

Also, most covered bridges were built decades ago, when larger roads weren't around.  They were the way to get horses, buggies, and eventually cars across steams and rivers.

Most covered bridges were around before cars, except if they were rebuilt later at some point. Unless riding a horse counts as "driving", then I'd hazard that most bridge designers would assume that you'd be walking or riding across a covered bridge.

Wagons were a thing. That's why roads and bridges were built wide enough to accommodate them.

[Max Rockatansky]

The last two covered bridges on the state highway system in California were active until 1950:

https://www.gribblenation.org/2023/01/the-last-covered-bridges-of-california.html?m=1

Even today, I can think of several sparsely traveled state highways which could accommodate a simple covered bridge.  Off the top of my head there no true covered bridges acting active roadway in California (facade bridges like Roberts Ferry don't count in my book).