Las Vegas HOV rules to change

[Scott5114]

It makes sense that HOV lanes don't really seem to work in Southern Nevada. If the casinos there are anything like the ones here, the shifts are staggered around when everyone else is getting to work just because that's the most efficient way to not have shift change fall during peak hours. The day shift at the last one I worked at was 6am to 3pm, for instance. That means that the entire city isn't all commuting at the same time (which would normally be good for congestion, but it means that HOV lanes aren't a very good solution).

Not everyone in Vegas works in the casinos, you know...

True, and not everyone in a casino works swing shift either (no reason to have accounting there at 9pm, for instance). But this effect is strong enough that several political pollsters are on record that polling Southern Nevada is difficult because it's hard to reliably catch people while they're at home and have time to answer questions. If the effect is that pronounced in that industry, I would expect it to affect other aspects of life there, including traffic, and even other industries (someone will want to be open to serve those swing-shift folks just getting off of work and needing to buy groceries, after all).

[hotdogPi]

polling Southern Nevada is difficult

I thought the entire state had casinos (roughly proportional to the population of the area), not just Clark County. There's even an unincorporated place named Jackpot.

[The Ghostbuster]

Are there any plans to convert the carpool lanes into toll lanes? I wouldn't be surprised if toll lanes were eventually implemented in the Las Vegas Area.

[Plutonic Panda]

Are there any plans to convert the carpool lanes into toll lanes? I wouldn't be surprised if toll lanes were eventually implemented in the Las Vegas Area.

I don't see toll lanes happening in Nevada. I'd expect that to happen in Phoenix before Vegas.

[skluth]

polling Southern Nevada is difficult

I thought the entire state had casinos (roughly proportional to the population of the area), not just Clark County. There's even an unincorporated place named Jackpot.

I doubt the traffic forcing all the staggered shifts isn't as bad in Jackpot as it is in Clark County

[roadfro]

polling Southern Nevada is difficult

I thought the entire state had casinos (roughly proportional to the population of the area), not just Clark County. There's even an unincorporated place named Jackpot.

By state law, gambling and casinos can and do exist statewide in Nevada. But there are areas of the state that don't have casinos. Boulder City (just south of Las Vegas and in Clark County) infamously does not have any casinos as gambling was made illegal in the city's charter–the two casinos commonly associated with Boulder City (Railroad Pass Casino and what is now the Hoover Dam Lodge) are both outside Boulder City limits. Additionally, I don't think there are any active casinos (and possibly not any active gaming whatsoever) in Esmeralda County.

Are there any plans to convert the carpool lanes into toll lanes? I wouldn't be surprised if toll lanes were eventually implemented in the Las Vegas Area.

I don't see toll lanes happening in Nevada. I'd expect that to happen in Phoenix before Vegas.

No. The Nevada Constitution and/or state law would need to be changed first, which is why there are currently no toll roads in Nevada to begin with. There was talk about a potential toll road demonstration project in the late 2000s/early 2010s, but that fizzled out in part due to tolls being prohibited by law.

[jeffandnicole]

polling Southern Nevada is difficult

I thought the entire state had casinos (roughly proportional to the population of the area), not just Clark County. There's even an unincorporated place named Jackpot.

By state law, gambling and casinos can and do exist statewide in Nevada. But there are areas of the state that don't have casinos. Boulder City (just south of Las Vegas and in Clark County) infamously does not have any casinos as gambling was made illegal in the city's charter–the two casinos commonly associated with Boulder City (Railroad Pass Casino and what is now the Hoover Dam Lodge) are both outside Boulder City limits. Additionally, I don't think there are any active casinos (and possibly not any active gaming whatsoever) in Esmeralda County.

And obviously there's Reno in the northern part of the State as well.

A place of gambling in Nevada doesn't necessarily need to be a full-fledge casino.  Gas stations, convenience stores and such can have slot machines.

[skluth]

polling Southern Nevada is difficult

I thought the entire state had casinos (roughly proportional to the population of the area), not just Clark County. There's even an unincorporated place named Jackpot.

By state law, gambling and casinos can and do exist statewide in Nevada. But there are areas of the state that don't have casinos. Boulder City (just south of Las Vegas and in Clark County) infamously does not have any casinos as gambling was made illegal in the city's charter–the two casinos commonly associated with Boulder City (Railroad Pass Casino and what is now the Hoover Dam Lodge) are both outside Boulder City limits. Additionally, I don't think there are any active casinos (and possibly not any active gaming whatsoever) in Esmeralda County.

And obviously there's Reno in the northern part of the State as well.

A place of gambling in Nevada doesn't necessarily need to be a full-fledge casino.  Gas stations, convenience stores and such can have slot machines.

There were even a couple slot machines in a gay bar I visited in Vegas back in 2000 

[Rothman]

polling Southern Nevada is difficult

I thought the entire state had casinos (roughly proportional to the population of the area), not just Clark County. There's even an unincorporated place named Jackpot.

By state law, gambling and casinos can and do exist statewide in Nevada. But there are areas of the state that don't have casinos. Boulder City (just south of Las Vegas and in Clark County) infamously does not have any casinos as gambling was made illegal in the city's charter–the two casinos commonly associated with Boulder City (Railroad Pass Casino and what is now the Hoover Dam Lodge) are both outside Boulder City limits. Additionally, I don't think there are any active casinos (and possibly not any active gaming whatsoever) in Esmeralda County.

And obviously there's Reno in the northern part of the State as well.

A place of gambling in Nevada doesn't necessarily need to be a full-fledge casino.  Gas stations, convenience stores and such can have slot machines.

There were even a couple slot machines in a gay bar I visited in Vegas back in 2000

Would one not expect a slot machine in a gay bar in Vegas?

I mean, they're in the airport, so I expect them and have seen them just about everwhere in Vegas.

[Scott5114]

As an out-of-towner, it's kind of fun to go to various non-casino businesses and guess which one is going to have a bank of slot machines.

[roadfro]

A place of gambling in Nevada doesn't necessarily need to be a full-fledge casino. Gas stations, convenience stores and such can have slot machines.

Non-casino establishments that have gaming typically operate on a "restricted" gaming license, which restricts the operator to a maximum of 15 slot machines and no other table games or other types of gaming.

As an out-of-towner, it's kind of fun to go to various non-casino businesses and guess which one is going to have a bank of slot machines.

You'll most commonly see non-restricted gaming operations at gas stations/convenience stores, bars (often the "in-laid in the bar top" type video poker machines), and grocery stores (certain chains have it frequently, others don't). But you'll see slot machines in other places too–e.g. my local bowling alley in Reno, which is independent and not attached to a casino, has a few slot machines spread around the alley outside of the bar area (which also has a few bar top machines).

[Scott5114]

Heh, bar-top machines are "fun" to work on. Sometimes getting them open is a challenge because of a dried crust of spilled drink residue gluing them shut.

[cl94]

A place of gambling in Nevada doesn't necessarily need to be a full-fledge casino. Gas stations, convenience stores and such can have slot machines.

Non-casino establishments that have gaming typically operate on a "restricted" gaming license, which restricts the operator to a maximum of 15 slot machines and no other table games or other types of gaming.

As an out-of-towner, it's kind of fun to go to various non-casino businesses and guess which one is going to have a bank of slot machines.

You'll most commonly see non-restricted gaming operations at gas stations/convenience stores, bars (often the "in-laid in the bar top" type video poker machines), and grocery stores (certain chains have it frequently, others don't). But you'll see slot machines in other places too–e.g. my local bowling alley in Reno, which is independent and not attached to a casino, has a few slot machines spread around the alley outside of the bar area (which also has a few bar top machines).

In my observations, the only supermarkets and convenience stores that reliably lack slot machines are Walmart and Maverik. Truck stops tend to have a little "casino" that allows smoking, as do most supermarkets. 7-Eleven may have 1-2 machines next to the door. Chain restaurants rarely have them, but every independent bar or local chain seems to have them.

[US 395]

https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/news-columns/road-warrior/crusade-to-end-hov-lanes-in-las-vegas-gathers-speed-3090983/

HOV news out of Las Vegas. Looks like the lt. gov might just get his way.
My biggest thing is what would be the plan with all the existing and future HOV infrastructure once the lanes are eliminated. Because it'll definitely cost money to restripe the lanes and remove the HOV ramps.

[vdeane]

https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/news-columns/road-warrior/crusade-to-end-hov-lanes-in-las-vegas-gathers-speed-3090983/

HOV news out of Las Vegas. Looks like the lt. gov might just get his way.
My biggest thing is what would be the plan with all the existing and future HOV infrastructure once the lanes are eliminated. Because it'll definitely cost money to restripe the lanes and remove the HOV ramps.

Paywalled

[US 395]

https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/news-columns/road-warrior/crusade-to-end-hov-lanes-in-las-vegas-gathers-speed-3090983/

HOV news out of Las Vegas. Looks like the lt. gov might just get his way.
My biggest thing is what would be the plan with all the existing and future HOV infrastructure once the lanes are eliminated. Because it'll definitely cost money to restripe the lanes and remove the HOV ramps.

Paywalled

Here's the article. If you have an Apple device, use the reader function before it fully loads the page to bypass the paywall.


Crusade to end HOV lanes in Las Vegas gathers speed
Lt. Gov. Stavros Anthony is still pursuing the removal of high occupancy vehicle lanes from Las Vegas Valley freeways.

"We are moving forward with trying to eliminate them altogether," Anthony told the Las Vegas Review-Journal last week in a phone interview. "We're going through the process with the federal government. It's going to take a little bit of time. It is what it is, but we're going to keep moving forward until we get some kind of final action."

Anthony, who in 2019 started his crusade against HOV lanes while he was a Las Vegas city councilman, was a major player in the HOV lane regulation hours being shortened by the state. Last year the regulations went from being in effect 24 hours a day, seven days a week, to being limited to between 6 a.m.-8 a.m. and 4 p.m.-6 p.m., Monday through Friday and open to all on weekends.


Challenging process

That change was made after Anthony brought the subject to the attention of the Nevada Transportation Board of Directors, for which he serves as vice chairman, something he had been working at for several years.

"The process to get here has been long and a lot of people standing in the way," Anthony said. "Especially when I was on the Las Vegas City Council and the Regional Transportation Commission (of Southern Nevada). There were just a lot of people who would just not listen to me and basically wanted HOV lanes all the time. Once I was able to become lieutenant governor and the vice chair of the Nevada Board of Transportation, I was in a position where I could actually get something done with the approval of the board, which approved it unanimously when I brought the motion to them."

The carpool lanes were added to Interstate 15 in 2019 as part of Project Neon — adding to the existing HOV lanes on U.S. Highway 95 at the time — new regulations went into effect limiting the use of the lanes to vehicles with two or more people and were in place for 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

Once that occurred many motorists complained about the round-the-clock regulations and the lack of entry/exit points, which was addressed in mid-2020, nearly just nearly six months after the lanes went live.

Between April 25, 2023, and July 2 of this year, after the shorter carpool lane hours went into effect, Las Vegas Municipal Court has seen 90 HOV lane violations submitted by law enforcement officials. That equates to about one every five days following the new lane regulation hours went into effect. That compares with Las Vegas Municipal court between Jan. 1, 2021, and April 3, 2023, handling 814 carpool violations, which equated to just under one per day.

There's no study noting what the outcome of lifting the restrictions has been, but Anthony said that he has received overwhelmingly positive reaction from the public. "They said thank you for opening them up," Anthony said.

'They still think it's 24/7'

He also noted that he's also heard from the public that they weren't aware that the regulations had changed. This is despite new signage installed on I-15 and U.S. 95 that notes the change in regulation hours.

"They still think it's 24/7," Anthony said. "Just trying to get the word out that they can enjoy that lane basically 90-95 percent of the time."

One potential impact of removing the carpool lanes could be having to close left-hand exit/entry points on freeways, such as the HOV drop lanes on I-15 at Harmon Avenue and the Neon Gateway farther north on I-15, near Charleston.

Additionally, as part of the ongoing process, the state is looking to figure out whether there would be any financial implications with the federal government if the HOV lanes were removed. A portion of Project Neon's funding was awarded with ties to including the carpool lanes.

What, if any, changes will have to be made clear as the process between the federal government and the state moves forward.

"We put in the application and that's why we're going through the steps the federal government wants us to go through and that's what we're trying to find out," Anthony said. "Obviously if they want millions of dollars in return, we're going to have to find out why that's the case. It's hard to speculate this point. We're going to keep moving forward and the director of NDOT (Tracy Larkin Thomason) is just pushing us along, which I appreciate."

[Plutonic Panda]

That would be great, honestly. I wouldn't mind if they just went back to the free double Xpress lanes.

[vdeane]

If you have an Apple device, use the reader function before it fully loads the page to bypass the paywall.

This works in Vivaldi too, in case anyone is wondering.

[Scott5114]

If for some reason you have to get rid of the HOV restrictions (I don't really use the freeways often enough to say whether they help or not) why not just leave the lanes the way they are and do an express/local type setup? It would be really stupid to have to demolish a bunch of brand new on/off ramps just because the Lt. Governor wants to make a point.

[Plutonic Panda]

If for some reason you have to get rid of the HOV restrictions (I don't really use the freeways often enough to say whether they help or not) why not just leave the lanes the way they are and do an express/local type setup? It would be really stupid to have to demolish a bunch of brand new on/off ramps just because the Lt. Governor wants to make a point.

Did I miss that they're talking about demolishing the new ramps? That would be really dumb, indeed.

I'm on the fence about whether HOV lanes really work that well anyways. It seems like a lot of traffic congestion is caused by people and they're driving habits rather than freeways, simply reaching their capacity. I noticed in LA people will enter the freeway and then just cut people off so they can get all the way to the left side of the freeway to get to the HOV lanes.

Here's a good idea of what I'm talking about. Of course this can happen without HOV lanes. But I feel like HOV lanes in LA cause some of this with people shooting over to the left side of the freeway and the general car lanes having to break for them.

[jeffandnicole]

If for some reason you have to get rid of the HOV restrictions (I don't really use the freeways often enough to say whether they help or not) why not just leave the lanes the way they are and do an express/local type setup? It would be really stupid to have to demolish a bunch of brand new on/off ramps just because the Lt. Governor wants to make a point.

Did I miss that they're talking about demolishing the new ramps? That would be really dumb, indeed.

I'm on the fence about whether HOV lanes really work that well anyways. It seems like a lot of traffic congestion is caused by people and they're driving habits rather than freeways, simply reaching their capacity. I noticed in LA people will enter the freeway and then just cut people off so they can get all the way to the left side of the freeway to get to the HOV lanes.

Here's a good idea of what I'm talking about. Of course this can happen without HOV lanes. But I feel like HOV lanes in LA cause some of this with people shooting over to the left side of the freeway and the general car lanes having to break for them.

Actually a really good video. 

Most people only see a very limited view:  Themselves, and the car(s) directly in front of them or around them, at the time they are there.

When a crash or incident occurs, the people going by see it.  But once that incident clears up, people are confused why traffic slowed down for no reason. Regardless if the incident was just cleared up, or if it's 10 minutes later, those not actually seeing the incident won't know what happened.

Likewise, people that think they can 'fix' a problem by adjusting their speed will see the effect on the car behind them, but has no clue what's occurring 10 cars behind them, or 30 minutes later when the 'fix' not only didn't work, but it probably made conditions worse.

Unless they have the birds eye view to watch for several hours, they're not really understanding the big picture.

[pderocco]

^^^
If you've every played with a Slinky on a slippery floor, you can see longitudinal waves in action. Traffic has longitudinal waves in it all the time, and a line of cars has a resonant frequency. When cars get close enough, that resonance gets so underdamped that it becomes unstable, and oscillates, creating stop-and-go traffic. The only thing that limits the amplitude of the oscillation is that cars never stop and go backwards.

[Plutonic Panda]

Rubbernecking is one of my biggest pet peeves. About the only thing that makes me mad than that is when people will come to a complete stop underneath the bridge or something like that when there's a rain or a hail storm. If I'm behind somebody that does that that's about the only thing that actually make me get out of my car and confront somebody.

I've also noticed that traffic seemingly just comes to a crawl at Minor curves on freeways that are ordinarily straight.

[Bruce]

When a crash or incident occurs, the people going by see it.  But once that incident clears up, people are confused why traffic slowed down for no reason. Regardless if the incident was just cleared up, or if it's 10 minutes later, those not actually seeing the incident won't know what happened.

Likewise, people that think they can 'fix' a problem by adjusting their speed will see the effect on the car behind them, but has no clue what's occurring 10 cars behind them, or 30 minutes later when the 'fix' not only didn't work, but it probably made conditions worse.

The solution is variable speed limits, especially if they are followed. There's a few freeways in the Seattle area that have them and it does noticeably help keep traffic moving instead of causing a sudden stop. Also much safer, since I don't trust the distracted drivers behind me to stop in time for a wall of traffic.

[roadfro]

If for some reason you have to get rid of the HOV restrictions (I don't really use the freeways often enough to say whether they help or not) why not just leave the lanes the way they are and do an express/local type setup? It would be really stupid to have to demolish a bunch of brand new on/off ramps just because the Lt. Governor wants to make a point.

That's the way I feel.

I really enjoyed the old express lane setup they had on I-15 for several years before the current configuration came into play: Two buffer-separated (by candlestick bollards) express lanes open to any vehicles, running from just north of I-215 and just south of Sahara. Only downside was the mad rush of vehicles cutting over out of the express lanes at the ends (I-15 north around Sahara just past the end of the express lanes was the most accident prone location in the state for years). Reverting to something like that using the HOV infrastructure might be kinda neat.