Two-Lane Roads Where Passing Is Common

[Max Rockatansky]

It never really bothered me to briefly exceed the speed limit by 10-15 MPH if that was the most efficient way to get past a slow poke.  To that end, US 95 in Nevada is one of those places where you need to often hit 85-90 MPH to pull off passes in a reasonable amount of time.  I found myself doing that a lot on the ION Highway, especially upon entering Oregon.

[SectorZ]

It's funny seeing the argument about passing on the East Coast. I swear it's a culture thing.

Driving with my wife and her grandmother years ago, she complained that I drove onto the wrong side of the road to pass somebody. In a legal passing zone. At 50 MPH on a 50 MPH speed limit road because the car I passed was doing about 35. She complained to my wife's uncle that I was driving like a maniac because she didn't even understand the concept of passing a vehicle where legal. She was also born almost 30 years before the interstate highway system was created.

[cl94]

Not passing out east is 100% a culture thing. A lot of rural residents out west will also pull over to let faster vehicles by if passing is unsafe.

Getting close to or above 90 when passing is sometimes the safest way to complete the pass. If visibility is good, you want to spend as little time in the opposing lane as possible. Do I want to hit 90 when making a pass? No. But does it sometimes happen? I have done it on a few occasions, never intentionally.

If I have to hit 90 in order to get around before the next oncoming vehicle is on me, I shouldn't be making the pass in the first place, and I don't.  I think most of us have had the experience when we're not in cruise control of looking at the speedometer and though, whoa, it didn't occur to me I was going that fast, and that's how I've caught myself doing 90+ in the middle of a pass.

I guess I should have been clearer.  Every time I have gone 90+ during a pass, it's because I wasn't paying attention to the speedometer (because I was more worried about safely passing) and looked down to see I was going 90. If I think need to go well above the limit to safely pass, I don't pass except in extreme circumstances.

[Rothman]

Getting close to or above 90 when passing is sometimes the safest way to complete the pass. If visibility is good, you want to spend as little time in the opposing lane as possible. Do I want to hit 90 when making a pass? No. But does it sometimes happen? I have done it on a few occasions, never intentionally.

If I have to hit 90 in order to get around before the next oncoming vehicle is on me, I shouldn't be making the pass in the first place, and I don't.  I think most of us have had the experience when we're not in cruise control of looking at the speedometer and though, whoa, it didn't occur to me I was going that fast, and that's how I've caught myself doing 90+ in the middle of a pass.

Pfft.  Make the pass.

[gonealookin]

Not passing out east is 100% a culture thing. A lot of rural residents out west will also pull over to let faster vehicles by if passing is unsafe.

Getting close to or above 90 when passing is sometimes the safest way to complete the pass. If visibility is good, you want to spend as little time in the opposing lane as possible. Do I want to hit 90 when making a pass? No. But does it sometimes happen? I have done it on a few occasions, never intentionally.

If I have to hit 90 in order to get around before the next oncoming vehicle is on me, I shouldn't be making the pass in the first place, and I don't.  I think most of us have had the experience when we're not in cruise control of looking at the speedometer and though, whoa, it didn't occur to me I was going that fast, and that's how I've caught myself doing 90+ in the middle of a pass.

I guess I should have been clearer.  Every time I have gone 90+ during a pass, it's because I wasn't paying attention to the speedometer (because I was more worried about safely passing) and looked down to see I was going 90. If I think need to go well above the limit to safely pass, I don't pass except in extreme circumstances.

No need to clarify, I understood your point.  As I said up above I'm trying to complete this maneuver that puts me in a lane I prefer not to be in as quickly as possible.  As long as I feel safe doing it I don't give a rat's rear end whether I'm doing 80, 90, 95 whatever in a 70 mph zone.

SectorZ's comment about his grandmother above plus webny's comments just show me that there's a different attitude about speed numbers, East vs. West.  Maybe 90 mph sounds insane to somebody from New York who's never hit a speed anywhere near that.  But out here, heck, something like 350 of the 500 miles between Reno and Salt Lake City are posted at 80 mph, the majority of Nevada's wide open desert two-lane roads are posted at 70, and hitting 90 or 95 for a few moments isn't uncomfortable at all when you have clear visibility on a straight road and the only vehicle in sight is the one you're passing.

[Max Rockatansky]

I don't miss the lack of a willingness to pass out east.  I once passed 37 cars on US 1 on my way home between Boca Chica Key and Cudjoe Key in 2013.  The impedes for that much passing was everyone refusing to pass someone going 30 MPH.  I might have gotten maybe 7-10 MPH over the speed limit as I picked off 5-10 cars at a time.

[webny99]

I've sometimes hit 90 temporarily passing people on two-laners in NY.  Gotta hit the gas to make the pass.

Don't assume that your personal driving style speaks for the whole state.

I wasn't intending to make that assumption at all. Just pointing up the difference in what speeds are common a relatively hilly/mountainous and densely populated state like NY vs. a lightly populated state with many flat, wide open stretches like Nevada. Of course there are outlier scenarios in both directions.

And there are totally places in NY where such a pass could theoretically be safe. Not saying I have come close to 90 on a 2-lane road there, but being as I have literally driven the entire state highway system, I can say that such places exist.

Sure there are - the NY 104 super-2 that I mentioned in the OP is one such example - but because our two-lane roads are capped at a 55 mph speed limit, the vehicle you're passing is probably not going much more than 65 or 70, so it's not usually necessary to speed to 90 mph to complete a pass even if it would be entirely possible.

I think most of us have had the experience when we're not in cruise control of looking at the speedometer and though, whoa, it didn't occur to me I was going that fast, and that's how I've caught myself doing 90+ in the middle of a pass.

Absolutely - however again, because of the lower speed limits here and lack of truly wide open stretches of highway, that speed you catch yourself doing that seems surprisingly high is not usually as high as 90 mph - sure it could be, but generally speaking, it'd usually be closer to 80 or maybe 85 mph rather than 90+.

Maybe 90 mph sounds insane to somebody from New York who's never hit a speed anywhere near that.  But out here, heck, something like 350 of the 500 miles between Reno and Salt Lake City are posted at 80 mph, the majority of Nevada's wide open desert two-lane roads are posted at 70, and hitting 90 or 95 for a few moments isn't uncomfortable at all when you have clear visibility on a straight road and the only vehicle in sight is the one you're passing.

Fully agreed, that was really the whole point of my earlier comments. 90-95 mph doesn't sound insane to me at all, but most situations that I can think of where I'd be comfortable with doing those speeds, simply don't exist in the Northeast or are confined to full freeways rather than two-lane roads.

[MikieTimT]

This depends entirely on the vehicle.  Some are more capable of accelerating than others, especially around 40MPH.  It's my belief that speed isn't as relevant to safety as is getting the heck out of the lane of oncoming traffic.  Others will disagree.  Their opinions are formed based on where they most commonly drive.

I live in the NW half of Arkansas, which other than interstates, a few major US and state highway segments, and some passing/climb lanes on other major roads after long stretches of 2 lane roads with no passing zones, the roads in rural areas are all 2 lane.  With mountains and waterways galore, there are lots of curves and elevation changes, which makes the numerically rare passing zone shorter than most states.  Unless you like being behind someone doing 10-15 MPH below the speed limit, you're going to do what it takes to complete a pass as quickly as possible to ensure it's done as safely as possible.

I drive a bone stock 2013 WRX hatch base model as my daily driver.  At 265HP, it isn't particularly powerful given the average power of new vehicles these days, but since it's lighter than all but a few of them, it has decent acceleration.  Dropping from 5th to 3rd will accomplish a passing maneuver in about 4 seconds to take advantage of the average length of passing zones in my area, but I won't speak of the speeds that are attained at the rejoining of the proper lane.

[Rothman]

Um...I drive a 2020 base model Rogue.  So, yes, I floor the thing to get that CVT up to 90.

[MikieTimT]

It's funny seeing the argument about passing on the East Coast. I swear it's a culture thing.

Driving with my wife and her grandmother years ago, she complained that I drove onto the wrong side of the road to pass somebody. In a legal passing zone. At 50 MPH on a 50 MPH speed limit road because the car I passed was doing about 35. She complained to my wife's uncle that I was driving like a maniac because she didn't even understand the concept of passing a vehicle where legal. She was also born almost 30 years before the interstate highway system was created.

My guess is that your grandmother either learned how to drive later in life than most of us did, or her formative driving years consisted of vehicles that weren't capable of our current interstate speeds.  The "roads" of that era wouldn't allow such speeds either.  If I spent the vast majority of my life driving less than 50MPH, I'd think that the way I drive now was maniacal.  Heck, my wife thinks that anyway!  She's Asian, though, and fits the sterotypical image of Asian drivers, so she has no room to criticize.

[Rothman]

Remember that Bess Truman got Harry pulled over on the PA TPK for insisting he drive slowly in the left lane.

[1995hoo]

Remember that Bess Truman got Harry pulled over on the PA TPK for insisting he drive slowly in the left lane.

I never heard that story. Tell us more.

[Rothman]

Remember that Bess Truman got Harry pulled over on the PA TPK for insisting he drive slowly in the left lane.

I never heard that story. Tell us more.

That's basically the story.  Bess was scared of the high-speed road, insisted that Harry putter along in the left lane and they got pulled over by a cop for doing so.

[Mr. Matté]

https://www.pittsburghmagazine.com/the-time-harry-truman-got-pulled-over-on-the-pa-turnpike/
https://www.myjournalcourier.com/news/article/holy-cow-history-17854652.php

So things back then don't seem to change to today, except it's the state's residents doing the left lane parking

[Rothman]

https://www.pittsburghmagazine.com/the-time-harry-truman-got-pulled-over-on-the-pa-turnpike/
https://www.myjournalcourier.com/news/article/holy-cow-history-17854652.php

So things back then don't seem to change to today, except it's the state's residents doing the left lane parking

Heh.  I'm pretty sure the version of the story I read said he was going under 55, but yours is probably a better source than what I was going by.

[JREwing78]

MN TH 61 beyond the last passing lane at Gooseberry Falls because you get all the RVs and slow tourist cruisers. Road ideally probably needs a couple more passing lanes on the longer straightaway stretches in southwestern Cook County.

Beyond passing lanes, that section of 61 needs modernization in general. Much of it has narrow lanes, narrow shoulders, and trees and brush are right up against the roadway. A lot of the roadway also has nasty frost heaves in it. There's a lot of local and county highways built to better standards than 61 north of Two Harbors.

I think a series of 2-mile 4-lane passing lane sections between Two Harbors and the Canadian border would help break up the traffic platooning on weekends. It doesn't necessarily need 4-laning (though US-53 has similar traffic levels south of Cook and apparently merits it), but a ground-up rebuild to modern standards with regular passing lane sections would improve safety immensely.

I would be OK with MnDOT keeping the old 61 roadway as is and continuing the 4-laning up the coast to Grand Marais, but 85-90 miles of new 4-lane highway in approximately the middle of nowhere is a big ask. I would be happy with a rebuild of the existing 2-lane to modern standards with ROW set aside for a divided 4-lane highway if and when traffic merits it. 

If I get a good chance I make a concerted effort to pass calmly and without exceeding my preferred cruising speed - ideally even leaving my cruise set the whole time - to combat the stereotype of passing on two lane roads being aggressive driving behavior.

I think extended tailgating of a slower driver in some effort to get them to use a turnout would be much worse behavior.

My preferred technique is to lay back far enough that they don't think I'm tailgating in any intimidating way.  Then, when I see I'll have a passing opportunity as soon as the next oncoming vehicle passes, I move up close to the vehicle I'm following.  Once I confirm that I can pass safely, I pull over into the opposing lane and hit the accelerator hard.  I know I'm sometimes doing 90 or 95 mph for a few seconds, because I want to get my business finished and get back over into my correct lane ASAP.  I then ease it back to cruising speed as soon as I'm sufficiently clear of the now-trailing vehicle.

Getting close to or above 90 when passing is sometimes the safest way to complete the pass. If visibility is good, you want to spend as little time in the opposing lane as possible. Do I want to hit 90 when making a pass? No. But does it sometimes happen? I have done it on a few occasions, never intentionally.

If I have to hit 90 in order to get around before the next oncoming vehicle is on me, I shouldn't be making the pass in the first place, and I don't.  I think most of us have had the experience when we're not in cruise control of looking at the speedometer and though, whoa, it didn't occur to me I was going that fast, and that's how I've caught myself doing 90+ in the middle of a pass.

After nearly 30 years of driving and taking opportunity to pass on 2-lane highways, I don't f*** around. I don't assume my opening to pass will remain clear, or that people around me won't pull a stupid move at the worst time. If the opening is there, I take it, and the gas pedal is mashed to the floor until I've cleared the traffic and can safely merge back into my lane.

Yes, I occasionally exceed 90 during a pass on a 2-lane road. That is far safer than dawdling in the left lane a few extra seconds, having your passing opportunity evaporate entirely, and having to quickly shut down and merge back in before you're in a head-on collision.

It is far more difficult to build speed than to shed it; I will often hang back a little ways from the vehicle I'm passing, then floor it a couple seconds before the oncoming traffic clears. That way I'm already 10-20mph up on the car I'm passing when I pull out to pass it, the time spent in the left lane is brief, and I'm back in my lane considerably quicker than if I pulled out before flooring it.

Obviously, conditions, and my reaction to them, vary greatly - I sure as hell ain't touching 90 in the middle of a blizzard, or even a moderate rain event, or on a narrow county road with poor visibility. I'm probably not even attempting that pass at all. But if the road is dry, clear, and wide, and I'm passing, my throttle is pinned down until I complete the pass.

I've had one time a police officer took offense to this passing method, at least to the extent that it was worth a traffic stop. I was honest and explained the situation, and was let off with a warning.

[vdeane]

I think it's interesting how many people are hitting 90 on two-lane roads.  Out east, speed limits are capped at 55 (or lower), so even flooring it to pass people quickly, I'm not getting up to more than 75-80 before moving back over (my normal cruising speed in a 55 zone on a two-lane road is 60).  Sure, speed limits are higher out west, but wouldn't that be counter-balanced by lower traffic volumes and longer sight lines, resulting in longer and more frequent passing opportunities?

[JayhawkCO]

I think it's interesting how many people are hitting 90 on two-lane roads.  Out east, speed limits are capped at 55 (or lower), so even flooring it to pass people quickly, I'm not getting up to more than 75-80 before moving back over (my normal cruising speed in a 55 zone on a two-lane road is 60).  Sure, speed limits are higher out west, but wouldn't that be counter-balanced by lower traffic volumes and longer sight lines, resulting in longer and more frequent passing opportunities?

At least for me out here in the mountains, you might have a situation where there's a semi or RV in front of a line of four people and everyone is being gun shy to pass. If I have a long stretch where I can see for a mile or so and such an opening hasn't happened in a while due to terrain, I'm happy to pass all four, but I want to do it as quickly as possible.

[1995hoo]

I think it's interesting how many people are hitting 90 on two-lane roads.  Out east, speed limits are capped at 55 (or lower), so even flooring it to pass people quickly, I'm not getting up to more than 75-80 before moving back over (my normal cruising speed in a 55 zone on a two-lane road is 60).  Sure, speed limits are higher out west, but wouldn't that be counter-balanced by lower traffic volumes and longer sight lines, resulting in longer and more frequent passing opportunities?

Florida has two-lane roads posted at 60 mph, though as a practical matter that's not all that different from 55.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

MN TH 61 beyond the last passing lane at Gooseberry Falls because you get all the RVs and slow tourist cruisers. Road ideally probably needs a couple more passing lanes on the longer straightaway stretches in southwestern Cook County.

Beyond passing lanes, that section of 61 needs modernization in general. Much of it has narrow lanes, narrow shoulders, and trees and brush are right up against the roadway. A lot of the roadway also has nasty frost heaves in it. There's a lot of local and county highways built to better standards than 61 north of Two Harbors.

I think a series of 2-mile 4-lane passing lane sections between Two Harbors and the Canadian border would help break up the traffic platooning on weekends. It doesn't necessarily need 4-laning (though US-53 has similar traffic levels south of Cook and apparently merits it), but a ground-up rebuild to modern standards with regular passing lane sections would improve safety immensely.

I would be OK with MnDOT keeping the old 61 roadway as is and continuing the 4-laning up the coast to Grand Marais, but 85-90 miles of new 4-lane highway in approximately the middle of nowhere is a big ask. I would be happy with a rebuild of the existing 2-lane to modern standards with ROW set aside for a divided 4-lane highway if and when traffic merits it. 

MnDOT has done some fairly extensive work on 61 in the last several years in Cook County, including a modernization in Grand Marais and an overhaul of what was probably the worst section on the Grand Portage reservation. The roughest ride these days is probably the portion from Little Marais to the Lake/Cook county line. Unfortunately one major barrier (besides the standard excuses of funding/priority issues) to a more proper rebuild is probably the lack of alternatives to use as detours for such a major project.

[Rothman]

Hit 90 out on NY 22 this past weekend passing someone.

Had a separate weird experience where I saw I had room to pass someone, a pick-up truck appeared in the lane I was in down the road, I moved over after the pass with plenty of room, but the pick-up truck still moved over to the shoulder.

Probably was thinking, "That crazy idiot...*grumble grumble*..."

[Kenoss]

Here in Portugal (and Europe in general) passing on 2 lane roads is pretty common, we only have double solid lines when there's a lot of traffic (AADTs of about 15000 or higher, I don't know if there's a fixed number) or tight curves.

Here's a photo of N244 I shot myself last June, with a (faint) dashed line between both directions (yellow lines are not used in Europe)



On roads like this one, it's normal to pass another car, as long as you do it in a high visibility area with caution and return to your lane ASAP. The speed limit on this kind of road is 90 km/h (about 55mph), depending on the road speeds of 60-65mph are common and you sometimes may have to hit 75mph to pass a semi-truck, but not much more than that.

We also have some super-two roads, which are mostly Itinerários Principais or Itinerários Complementares like the IP2 (picture below, also mine)



the speed limit is the same as the other roads (although I believe it should be at least 100km/h if the crash rate is low), cruising speeds on these roads however are much higher being about 65-75mph due to the better road quality. Portugal built a lot of these in the 80s and 90s as a cheaper alternative to freeways, however, the traffic levels were too high and there were a lot of fatalities due to head-on crashes. Passing lanes in this only exist when going uphill, sometimes they become 2+2 for a short stretch near an exit. Nowadays most of the old ones have been converted to freeways although some newer ones still exist in areas with low amounts of traffic, and allow for pretty decent speeds, I remember once my father doing about 75mph in one of these (with low traffic volumes) and being passed.

Even city streets have dashed lines, although passing inside towns is uncommon and most people would consider it very aggressive driving unless you're passing a vehicle that has to stop on the driving lane due to lack of parking spots (truck offloading, broken down car etc) or giving space to a cyclist.

[webny99]

So the other day I was following an orange Ford Raptor. In a 40 mph zone, he was going 45 mph or so. That's usually manageable but I was running late for work so when I hit a long passing zone, I quickly accelerated and pulled out to pass. And that was an easy decision. Like, this was maybe 1.5 out of 10 difficulty pass, if even that, and under normal circumstances, I probably wouldn't have even hit 60 mph at any point during the passing maneuver. Except that as I pulled alongside, I could sense him also speeding up. Oh, OK. Fine. I'd started accelerating suddenly and quickly enough that I had a significant edge, so I pinned it and made it past no problem and moved back over before the end of the passing zone. I glanced down at my speedometer at that point and I was going 77 but he was right on my tail so I crept up to 80 mph for good measure, but that wasn't good enough: he roared right past on a double solid line and pulled back in front just in time for both of us to slow down at the next intersection.

Then of course, at that intersection a DOT truck pulled out in front of both of us, and there were thankfully no more passing zones until my turn, so I was stuck behind both of them until he turned left at the next light. I wondered if he was going to intentionally stall off to try and make me wait for him to complete his turn, but I didn't wait to find out: I zoomed past on the shoulder without so much as a sideways glance.

In hindsight, my only regret is that I wish I'd given a thumbs-up while going past. Because I wasn't even mad. Shocked, certainly, but not angry. In fact, I was mostly just relieved to have escaped without anything worse happening. Anyways, now I'm wondering if it should it be an unspoken rule not to pass any new and expensive looking truck on a two-lane road (which I would hate, BTW, but I also hate other drivers compromising my safety and their own for no reason other than arrogance).

[kphoger]

I could sense him also speeding up.

I once had that happen while I was passing someone, except I was in a box truck that, with the pedal all the way to the floor, would top out at about 73 mph.  Nothing I could do in that situation except fall back and just deal with his slower speed.

[pderocco]

So the other day I was following an orange Ford Raptor. In a 40 mph zone, he was going 45 mph or so. That's usually manageable but I was running late for work so when I hit a long passing zone, I quickly accelerated and pulled out to pass. And that was an easy decision. Like, this was maybe 1.5 out of 10 difficulty pass, if even that, and under normal circumstances, I probably wouldn't have even hit 60 mph at any point during the passing maneuver. Except that as I pulled alongside, I could sense him also speeding up. Oh, OK. Fine. I'd started accelerating suddenly and quickly enough that I had a significant edge, so I pinned it and made it past no problem and moved back over before the end of the passing zone. I glanced down at my speedometer at that point and I was going 77 but he was right on my tail so I crept up to 80 mph for good measure, but that wasn't good enough: he roared right past on a double solid line and pulled back in front just in time for both of us to slow down at the next intersection.

He just wanted to show you his dick was bigger than yours.